Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: norm_2 on January 31, 2011, 04:22:57 PM
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This is for the Vedder/Chilliwack. Would it be 10, 20, 30? I assume some of you have information on this.
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you're kidding right? obviously you're not an avid steelheader...10? 20? 30?....daily average?...based on what? fisherman's tale?
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If you're talking about the total number of fish hooked by all the fishermen fishing, that's an impossible number to figure out since a lot of people don't post about fish they caught. For example, on the 28th, I think Fred's weighed 17 fish but not everyone, including myself weigh my fish at Fred's. I'm sure some statistician could extrapolate a number but then again, who knows?
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I'm guessing on average 20/day
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Man you guys have no idea... depending on when a run is coming through or not the numbers can fluctuate. Weekdays tend to get less pressure, so likely less fish will be caught.
On the 28th I released a small hatchery before wacking a 15lb doe. yesterday I released a small hatch does first thing in the morning, and came back to the same spot at the end of the day too see that same fish wacked.
During that Tuesday-Thursday push of fish after the wate cleared up, I know of a bunch of guys who were into 10-40 fish in those days.
There cant be an average, but it can only keep getting better.
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Man you guys have no idea... depending on when a run is coming through or not the numbers can fluctuate. Weekdays tend to get less pressure, so likely less fish will be caught.
On the 28th I released a small hatchery before wacking a 15lb doe. yesterday I released a small hatch does first thing in the morning, and came back to the same spot at the end of the day too see that same fish wacked.
During that Tuesday-Thursday push of fish after the wate cleared up, I know of a bunch of guys who were into 10-40 fish in those days.
There cant be an average, but it can only keep getting better.
There is a average for everything. Too many unknowns such as # of anglers out on any givin day and # of fish bonked per day makes it unknown.I would guess that on a average day there are around 100 to 200 anglers fishing and out of those only 10 % will catch and kill a hatchery fish. So on busy days at the peak of conditions 20 to 30 fish killed per day sounds about right.
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If you wanted to come up with numbers of some useful accuracy, you could start by categorizing the fishing conditions as prime, average, and poor. Then you would have to set certain measurable parameters to define each category (visibility, water level, water temperature, etc). Figure out what percentage of killed fish get recorded/weighed in (difficult but possible), and then use this number to adjust your future numbers of daily kept fish. In each month figure out how many days of each condition category there were and how many fish were killed that day and divide that by the number of days that category occured. So for each month, you would have average daily numbers that would belong to a number of categories (in this case three). To account for various other unknowns and anomalies is exactly why you would compute the numbers for a 28/30/31 day period so it all averages out.
To make it easier for you, I'll pm you with the number of fish I catch. ;D
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to come up with a number, it's series of complex trigonometry and algebraic equations, but lets just say that if you do not carry the 1, then you will come up with an incorrect number, you must also consider fish/per casts category as well, but the important thing is to maintain all the necessary parameters of the situation.
it can also be calculated, down to 3 decimals points that the lower river, below the crossing, seems to statistically produce more fish, while, oddly, the mid-river from crossing to tahamhi seems to have come away with the lowest rating in the 3 "sections" of the river. However over the course of a 20 year cycle, the upper river constantly seems to produce fish per day per 100 anglers, that is a fact.
food...for thought
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to come up with a number, it's series of complex trigonometry and algebraic equations, but lets just say that if you do not carry the 1, then you will come up with an incorrect number, you must also consider fish/per casts category as well, but the important thing is to maintain all the necessary parameters of the situation.
it can also be calculated, down to 3 decimals points that the lower river, below the crossing, seems to statistically produce more fish, while, oddly, the mid-river from crossing to tahamhi seems to have come away with the lowest rating in the 3 "sections" of the river. However over the course of a 20 year cycle, the upper river constantly seems to produce fish per day per 100 anglers, that is a fact.
food...for thought
I want some of whatever it is you're on ;D
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I want some of whatever it is you're on ;D
What drug makes opinion become fact????
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I want some of whatever it is you're on ;D
lol... as funny as it sounds, nicefish is correct in the sense of formulating an average based on statistical mathematics...but without known set variables (or data) it's no more than an educated guesstimation at best.
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BONKED is the operative word.
CAUGHT would be different.
Myself I've yet to bonk because I give myself an approximate time to fish and with a one fish limit (and a yearly limit) the BONK ends the day and possibly the year.
I've had the misfortune of catching in the first few casts but because I'd planned to make a day of it: released and continued on.
It's not salmon season where you can kill one and continue on. (I have a bit of travelling to fish there.)
It's not about the meat it's about the fishing.
Those who live close may take more advantage BUT pay attention to your license.
Those that don't get out too much probably tend to BONK more (to prove they got something).
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This is for the Vedder/Chilliwack. Would it be 10, 20, 30? I assume some of you have information on this.
I don't think even God would know the answer to your question. ;)
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I want some of whatever it is you're on ;D
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This is good stuff,put me out of my chair ;D ;D
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This is for the Vedder/Chilliwack. Would it be 10, 20, 30? I assume some of you have information on this.
I say it`s five based on the information I have ;)
Cheers
Nuggy
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this question is a hard question to answer.
for 1 if the river is completly blown no fish or only a couple will be caught.
for 2 after a blowout there is many,many fish bonked.
and on weekdays there is less fish retained as people are working, when on weekends there is more
but latlet the river has been fishing good and been really busy im guessing about 30 a day this week.
the freds site gives you a general idea of how many are bonked by averging how many fish have been kept and weighed in there.Personal i release most of my steelies unless its at the very end of the day. so far this season i have only kept 2 but released 7 hatcheries and many wilds. :)
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Maybe 30 a day this week just because there seems to be good numbers of steelhead year so far this year but I personally don't think it's even 30.
How many Steelhead enter the Vedder between Dec 15 and April 15th? 3500 -5000? What's the ratio between hatchery and wild? That number seems to high to me even on a peak two week time frame.
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you have to take the number of fishing steely days (45) times that by the length of your rod 10.6, if you use a pin you subtract 2.5, then you average in the price of diesel to get to the river to the 10th degree. That number which is 27.5467 now gets added to the average temp of June and than you get your number which is a variable of what you use the most of, roe or pink worms. I come up with 25, it's scientifically proven. ;)
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you have to take the number of fishing steely days (45) times that by the length of your rod 10.6, if you use a pin you subtract 2.5, then you average in the price of diesel to get to the river to the 10th degree. That number which is 27.5467 now gets added to the average temp of June and than you get your number which is a variable of what you use the most of, roe or pink worms. I come up with 25, it's scientifically proven. ;)
yah but don't you have to factor in the success rate being higher if you're a canuck fan versus a significant drop if you're a maple grief fan? and even more so if you shamelessly wear their colour? ::)
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yah but don't you have to factor in the success rate being higher if you're a canuck fan versus a significant drop if you're a maple grief fan? and even more so if you shamelessly wear their colour? ::)
;D ;D
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yah but don't you have to factor in the success rate being higher if you're a canuck fan versus a significant drop if you're a maple grief fan? and even more so if you shamelessly wear their colour? ::)
I believe that's how you factor the amount of bucks to does caught!
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so, now
what was the estimated return for last year, hatch as well as wild, and what are the prediction for this years total??
does anyone knows about those??
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so, now
what was the estimated return for last year, hatch as well as wild, and what are the prediction for this years total??
does anyone knows about those??
There was no estimated return last year and there is no prediction for this years return and that's because there is no steelhead stock assessment done on this system ::)
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There was no estimated return last year and there is no prediction for this years return and that's because there is no steelhead stock assessment done on this system ::)
The way it is with most if not all systems now...
All people seem to care about is sockeye, coho and springs. Or other fish with monetary value :-\
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The way it is with most if not all systems now...
All people seem to care about is sockeye, coho and springs. Or other fish with monetary value :-\
You’re right Dan but I suspect the monetary value of Vedder steelhead is considerable. The province, and especially the city of Chilliwack does quite well by these fish. Think of the tax dollars collected on the fuel used, tackle purchased, license fees, food, etc. Then factor in all the tackle shops, restaurants, guides, gas stations, etc.
Consider also the province does not contribute $.01 of the roughly $100,000.00 necessary to produce the hatchery steelhead that attract the crowds that make the money collected by the province.
Sadly, virtually none of this revenue goes back to steelhead management; essential data like enumerations.
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You’re right Dan but I suspect the monetary value of Vedder steelhead is considerable. The province, and especially the city of Chilliwack does quite well by these fish. Think of the tax dollars collected on the fuel used, tackle purchased, license fees, food, etc. Then factor in all the tackle shops, restaurants, guides, gas stations, etc.
Consider also the province does not contribute $.01 of the roughly $100,000.00 necessary to produce the hatchery steelhead that attract the crowds that make the money collected by the province.
Sadly, virtually none of this revenue goes back to steelhead management; essential data like enumerations.
I am kind of curious.
If province is not paying for Chilliwack hatchery's cost of steelhead, then who is footing the bill?
Someone must be paying for it.
Because as far as I know, pacific salmon is handled by the federal government and steelhead is under provincial government control.
Chillwack is the only large scale steelhead hatchery program in the lower mainland and is very successful.
Who then decides they get one and other hatcheries in the lower mainland don't?
Or is the federal government, via DFO, selectively helping out the steelhead fishery in the lower mainland?
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Bigblue
DFO is footing the bill for steelhead production on the Chilliwack/Vedder. Gofish BC truck juveniles off site in the spring and release them downstream of the crossing.
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There is definitely a lot need to be done for Steelhead management/enhancement in lower mainland as well as throughout BC.
Only that one hatchery in C/V river is not enough.
For the kind of angler attention that C/V river is receiving what they are doing just from that hatchery is by no means enough.
And what about other streams like Capilano, Seymor, Chehalis, Satve, Cheakamus, Squmish etc…??
The feeding rivers in great leaks in east coast areas are producing far more steelhead (hatch & wild) and are not comparable in this regard to BC rivers.
Who is responsible for this??
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DFO is footing the bill for steelhead production on the Chilliwack/Vedder. Gofish BC truck juveniles off site in the spring and release them downstream of the crossing.
Considering the fact that steelhead stamp at $28+ HST is the most expensive stamp on my license, it is a shame that provincial government is not doing their part after selling the stamp to the anglers. I guess this money goes to the provincial government coffers? I am grateful to the federal government for stepping in and filling in some of the void. I know that the Capilano hatchery operated by the DFO is releasing around 15,000 steelhead smolts a year and I guess this is also paid by the federal government. We all have to thank the DFO for whatever steelhead fishing we have here in the lower mainland.
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http://www.gofishbc.com/whofunded.htm
And no, Chilliwack River is not the only river that has a hatchery steelhead program.
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http://www.gofishbc.com/whofunded.htm
And no, Chilliwack River is not the only river that has a hatchery steelhead program.
Thanks for the info Rodney.
Now I know where our license fee is going to. :)
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This is for the Vedder/Chilliwack. Would it be 10, 20, 30? I assume some of you have information on this.
Take a guess, just like the DFO does. :D :D ;D ;D
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And what about other streams like Capilano, Seymor, Chehalis, Satve, Cheakamus, Squmish etc…??
Capilano/Seymour: increasing the amount of hatchery fish for such a small section of fishable water would only add pressure and stress to such a fragile run and dilute the gene pool of any, if any, wild stock left.
I mean really... How many fishers can the Cap accomodate safely.
Stave: 2 fish limit if I'm not mistaken, what does that say.
And as for the others:
I think preserving the wild stock is more important than turning these rivers into trout ponds (though that day may come)
As for the Vedder I'm not so sure that the fish you catch are wild just because they have an adipose fin, they are simply unclipped, next generation, hatchery.
It gets complicated and I can't articulate as well as I wish but there is a bigger picture than just adding more fish so you can catch more.
Want it to change or improve? Then get involved with a hatchery or something and at least you'll see and hopefully appreciate the efforts put forth on your behalf for your enjoyment.
The feeding rivers in great leaks in east coast areas are producing far more steelhead (hatch & wild) and are not comparable in this regard to BC rivers.
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7674161/
(http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7674161/)
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Capilano/Seymour: increasing the amount of hatchery fish for such a small section of fishable water would only add pressure and stress to such a fragile run and dilute the gene pool of any, if any, wild stock left.
I mean really... How many fishers can the Cap accomodate safely.
If Capilano Hatchery can release 600,000 coho smolts, 600,000 spring smolts, what is the rationale for limiting steelhead smolt release at 15,000?
If the river can support 600,000 coho smolts released per year, is there any proof that it can only support 15,000 steelhead smolts?
I am not a biologist, but it seems far fetched that a same river can accomodate 40 times more of one species than another from the same family of Salmoninae.
With regard to steelhead fishing on the Cap, it can support more anglers than present as there are very few people fishing nowadays.
Go see for yourself on weekends. :)
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If Capilano Hatchery can release 600,000 coho smolts, 600,000 spring smolts, what is the rationale for limiting steelhead smolt release at 15,000?
If the river can support 600,000 coho smolts released per year, is there any proof that it can only support 15,000 steelhead smolts?
I am not a biologist, but it seems far fetched that a same river can accommodate 40 times more of one species than another from the same family of Salmoninae.
With regard to steelhead fishing on the Cap, it can support more anglers than present as there are very few people fishing nowadays.
Go see for yourself on weekends. :)
A rivers capacity to support juveniles is kind of irrelevant when it comes to smolt releases from a hatchery as these releases are not tied to the rearing capacity of the river. These smolts are held at the hatchery until they are ready to migrate to the ocean. In theory, these fish should leave for the ocean very quickly once they have been released as that is what fish do once there "smolted". The correct term for a smolt is a juvenile salmonid that has silvered up and has changed physiology to allow the fish to migrate from the fresh water environment to the marine environment. A lot of people get confused when they talk about smolts. All of the coho and chinook held at hatcheries right now are not smolts but pre-smolts. They will not be smolts until April - May - June.
The rational for only 15 000 stellhead smolts is multi faceted. At Capilano they only have so much space and steelhead smolts take up lots of space and water since the target fish size at release is 80 grams vrs. 20 gr. for a coho and 6 - 7 grams for a chinook. More steelhead means less other fish. Another issue at Capilano is water, specifically warm spring or groundwater. In a nutshell, they do not have much of it and most of what they have , they use for chinook rearing. With the current water temperature regime, it's very hard to get the fish up to size in only 1 year. A 2 year program is very expensive. The last thing is money as in the Province isn't paying for a Provincal fish. DFO ends up paying for these fish out of a static or declining budget. There haveing a hard time maintaining the status quo just to pay for existing programs so it's very unlikely they would want to pay for a expanded steelhead program.
Hope this helps.
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A rivers capacity to support juveniles is kind of irrelevant when it comes to smolt releases from a hatchery as these releases are not tied to the rearing capacity of the river. These smolts are held at the hatchery until they are ready to migrate to the ocean. In theory, these fish should leave for the ocean very quickly once they have been released as that is what fish do once there "smolted". The correct term for a smolt is a juvenile salmonid that has silvered up and has changed physiology to allow the fish to migrate from the fresh water environment to the marine environment. A lot of people get confused when they talk about smolts. All of the coho and chinook held at hatcheries right now are not smolts but pre-smolts. They will not be smolts until April - May - June.
The rational for only 15 000 stellhead smolts is multi faceted. At Capilano they only have so much space and steelhead smolts take up lots of space and water since the target fish size at release is 80 grams vrs. 20 gr. for a coho and 6 - 7 grams for a chinook. More steelhead means less other fish. Another issue at Capilano is water, specifically warm spring or groundwater. In a nutshell, they do not have much of it and most of what they have , they use for chinook rearing. With the current water temperature regime, it's very hard to get the fish up to size in only 1 year. A 2 year program is very expensive. The last thing is money as in the Province isn't paying for a Provincal fish. DFO ends up paying for these fish out of a static or declining budget. There haveing a hard time maintaining the status quo just to pay for existing programs so it's very unlikely they would want to pay for a expanded steelhead program.
Hope this helps.
Good post Brian. Have you considered switching over to Communications?? ;)
My guess is steelhead programs will be the first to be cut at DFO hatcheries if serious budget constraints are put in place.
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Communications! :D That's a good one. I'm much too direct for that! I will tell you what though. I'm coming down for a couple of days of fish chasing and I thought that you guys at the morning coffee "Table of Knowledge" can buy me a cup. Your right, this communication thing is much easier than I thought ;D
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Your right, this communication thing is much easier than I thought ;D
But so lacking in DFO policy today! Good to see some of you young(er) guys speaking up and informing the public on these issues. Looking forward to seeing you ( as I recall you bring me luck...)
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Communications! :D That's a good one. I'm much too direct for that! I will tell you what though. I'm coming down for a couple of days of fish chasing and I thought that you guys at the morning coffee "Table of Knowledge" can buy me a cup. Your right, this communication thing is much easier than I thought ;D
It's called "The Long Table" ;D ;D ;D
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bkk, thanks for your insights on the steelhead issue.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that the DFO will not reduce it's steelhead program at the Cap and that the trucking off wild smolts from above the dam to lower river will be successful in establishing a viable population for the future.
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I wasn't trying to make anyone mad and BKK explained things pretty good BUT lets look at the big picture:
there are rivers smaller than the stave where the daily quota is 2 so river size and ability to accommodate large #'s of anglers have nothing to do with it. Plus I think they only stock 20,000 steelhead per year, I could be wrong on that # though?
They're stocked fish meant to be caught not left to spawn: they'll just restock.
If Capilano Hatchery can release 600,000 coho smolts, 600,000 spring smolts,
Most of these are caught by the anglers fishing the bay; a great source of revenue for the gas docks and local tackle shops and great enjoyment for those with boats or those fishing the shore.
The surplus of fish that makes it to the hatchery surviving the guantlet are sold off and sold in the stores.
Steelhead on the otherhand tend to be trophy fish (few and far between).
If I'm wrong please correct me
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Interesting read so far.But got a forecast joke ;D
What does DFO and the weatherman have in common????
They can't forecast $%^& ;D :D ;)