Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Easywater on November 29, 2010, 03:48:16 PM
-
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/pacificnw/2004/1024/taste.html
http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2005_2nd/Jun05_WhiteKing.html
http://www.primeseafood.com/salmon.html
-
There's always a way to spin anything . That would make for good guiding on the Veddar .
-
I would not pay top dollar for a white chinook lol. As a local food industry member, white chinook salmon is not desirable by alot of colleagues. I've caught a few, released quite a few more, kept the odd doe and have the meat smoked by a friend of mine.
-
I am also in the food service industry. I can tell you that white springs are by far my favorite salmon to grill or pan roast due to the higher fat content that they have. I do understand that most peoples impression of white springs have come from the Vedder springs they have retained. They are a abnormal in they have a heavy algae taste and smell. I think it is specific to Vedder and Harrison fish only. All the white springs i have used have been excellent.
The first to use white spring and market them as "Ivory" was Wolfgang Puck. The only downside to using whites in a food service environment is educating your customers. Once they try it however they love it!
-
Just a FYI white springs in Vancouver are cheaper than reds.
-
Just a FYI white springs in Vancouver are cheaper than reds.
most definately. had to call out a fishmonger once claiming his marble spring was a true red spring
-
I've caught silver bullet whites opening week of the Fraser (old opening- May). That had ZERO odour to them- even the reds stink. I think they were definately a different strain than the Harrison and Harrison transplanted brood stock.......but I still gave them away to friends.
I just prefer the taste of the red ones better. I know there are some very early running whites( March) -Lillooet river, that are highly prized, I'm not sure I ever tried one of those.
One of my old Dad's buddies used to come up from California and had to go to Albion fisheries every time he came up to buy a white Spring, he siad they were the best.
I've caught Tyee whites up in QCIs and really wanted them to be great table fair and tried them but.....I gave those away as well, the reds just taste better to me. The chef at the Lodge one night said it was all in my imagination and the other chef said you mean a stinky? so we had a blind taste test and I picked the red and the white with my eyes closed....the one chef was impressed the other just winked ;)
I guess everyone has different taste and a fish that some may release is a prize to another
-
Agreed chromer. I retained a whitey from the Fraser this year and it had almost no "spring" odour to it. The meat was excellent quality - although different than reds, or other salmon. I can see why some people like it. Much different from the whites from the Vedder which are notorious for being strong in odour with varying degrees of undesirable flavour.
-
I ate a white this year that we caught off Thrasher Rock in Georgia Staight in June. It was absolutley delicious. Normally I take salmon leftovers to work the next day to re-heat. I'm not enthusiastic about re-heated red fleshed salmon (i.e. sockeye) and kind of pick at it but this white I devoured. I was as good re-heated as it was the night before.
-
I think the Fraser whites have a higher oil content due to feeding on herring which are a white fleshed fish with high oil content, while the reds feed primarily on shrimp and such which give them the red flesh color. If that is fact then some springs likely become marble springs as a result of changing their diet at some point, likely along the migration path. I have caught marbles in the rivers but never while fishing in the ocean.
Diet does effect the flesh color of salmon, as farmed salmon flesh is white until they mix a carotene colorant in their food prior to sending them to market. It is not unique to salmon either as I find trout that live in lakes with a lot of fresh water shrimp have much redder flesh than trout that live in lakes that do not have a lot of shrimp.... Flamingos also get their pink coloration from the diet of shrimp and such. When hunting moose I have noticed that moose that live around marshes have much browner hair than the moose that live in higher elevations which have dark gray hair.
-
I think the Fraser whites have a higher oil content due to feeding on herring which are a white fleshed fish with high oil content, while the reds feed primarily on shrimp and such which give them the red flesh color. If that is fact then some springs likely become marble springs as a result of changing their diet at some point, likely along the migration path. I have caught marbles in the rivers but never while fishing in the ocean..
Not even close.
-
Diet has nothing to do with it. It's genetic
-
Eat a bunch of carrots for a few weeks and tell me diet has nothing to do with it. So whatever those white springs are eating makes them:
a- stink
b- make the meat look off white
I can smell them swimming by like driving by a feed lot.
-
I second that notion they stink. :P
-
Everyone is half right.
Flesh colour can be determined by what the fish eat in the ocean (or elsewhere), however with springs this is not the case.
White and red springs live in the same water and eat the same fish/invertebrates, etc. Red flesh happens because of the ability to absorb carotenoids into the flesh. White springs do not have this ability to deposit the carotenoids, and therefore the flesh stays a white colour. Marbles occur because the fish can deposit the carotenoids into certain areas of flesh but not others, hence why marbles appear blotchy and uneven (normally) in their distribution of white and red meat (sometimes only back half of fish, sometimes along spinal cord, etc).
-
If the flesh colour differences are primarily the result of diet rather than being two varieties of one species, then how is it possible for a population of chinook salmon to retain the same flesh colour one generation after another? How is it possible for each generation to feed on the exact same food source in the Pacific Oceans that result in the same flesh colour? Finally, why does the same distinct colour differences not occur in other salmonid species?
-
Everyone is half right.
Flesh colour can be determined by what the fish eat in the ocean (or elsewhere), however with springs this is not the case.
White and red springs live in the same water and eat the same fish/invertebrates, etc. Red flesh happens because of the ability to absorb carotenoids into the flesh. White springs do not have this ability to deposit the carotenoids, and therefore the flesh stays a white colour. Marbles occur because the fish can deposit the carotenoids into certain areas of flesh but not others, hence why marbles appear blotchy and uneven (normally) in their distribution of white and red meat (sometimes only back half of fish, sometimes along spinal cord, etc).
Good to see you are not just fishing over there ED ;)
-
the only keeper white spring i caught was in campbell river. it was good smoking. i have caught hundreds of whites on the fraser and wouldn't keep one, they stink regardless of color.
-
An ocean-caught white spring beats a red one anytime in the flavour and texture department.
It is by far, the best tasting salmon.
Those of you basing your preferences on LML river caught salmon are right, however. There is something in white springs that turns them into inferior table-fare once they hit fresh water, and it seems this is particularly true of the Harrison (Vedder) fish.
That said, some Fraser caught whiteys can taste exceptionally good as long as they are caught within hours of making it into the system, but it's hard to determine their river of origin without a DNA test.
Just my 2 centavos...
-
sounds like a lot of george castandza's on this post, but like the crowd yelled on that episode of senfeld, is there a marine biologist????, or just a lot of hole in one wannabe's??? maybe someone with knowledge could clear this up??
-
Yup-- a whole lot of opinions ( which are fine) but they are NOT factual. A whole bunch of taste tests and fat content studies show virtually NO difference in blind taste tests.
Get over it boys-- ALL salmon are great if properly cooked...... yes --even stinkies!!! :D
-
sounds like a lot of george castandza's on this post, but like the crowd yelled on that episode of senfeld, is there a marine biologist????, or just a lot of hole in one wannabe's??? maybe someone with knowledge could clear this up??
Clear what up?
Why do you need a Marine Biology Degree holder to settle a difference in opinion about the taste of fish?
All you need is to have some experience under the belt catching them, cooking them and eating them to draw some conclusions.
It's a fact: Non-tidal Harrison white springs (which are the same strain as the Vedder whites - and I don't need a degree to know that) stink and taste foul compared to their red counterparts.
Ocean caught whites, OTOH, taste gloriously good! Many repeated home and field tests have proven this beyond any doubt. ;D
-
Clear what up?
Why do you need a Marine Biology Degree holder to settle a difference in opinion about the taste of fish?
All you need is to have some experience under the belt catching them, cooking them and eating them to draw some conclusions.
It's a fact: Non-tidal Harrison white springs (which are the same strain as the Vedder whites - and I don't need a degree to know that) stink and taste foul compared to their red counterparts.
Ocean caught whites, OTOH, taste gloriously good! Many repeated home and field tests have proven this beyond any doubt. ;D
Would you say your experience is "opinion" or "science"? ;D
-
Neither.
It is called EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE. ;)
-
Neither.
It is called EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE. ;)
Well you did tell us on the internet...... so it must be true! :D
-
An ocean-caught white spring beats a red one anytime in the flavour and texture department.
It is by far, the best tasting salmon.
Those of you basing your preferences on LML river caught salmon are right, however. There is something in white springs that turns them into inferior table-fare once they hit fresh water, and it seems this is particularly true of the Harrison (Vedder) fish.
That said, some Fraser caught whiteys can taste exceptionally good as long as they are caught within hours of making it into the system, but it's hard to determine their river of origin without a DNA test.
Just my 2 centavos...
I've caught and ate many white Springs caught on the WCVI and they are great! I have many clients that prefer them to the Reds.
-
sounds like a lot of george castandza's on this post, but like the crowd yelled on that episode of senfeld, is there a marine biologist????, or just a lot of hole in one wannabe's??? maybe someone with knowledge could clear this up??
I'm a BSc in Fisheries... just told you what the diff between white and reds are.
On the other hand for taste, not sure you need a degree to figure it out.
Out of the fish I've caught, I prefer red spring over any salmon. White are only good for smoking unless caught form the ocean.
And yes I can tell the difference between red and whites in taste.
-
I'm a BSc in Fisheries... just told you what the diff between white and reds are.
On the other hand for taste, not sure you need a degree to figure it out.
Out of the fish I've caught, I prefer red spring over any salmon. White are only good for smoking unless caught form the ocean.
And yes I can tell the difference between red and whites in taste.
Well spoken. Like I said earlier I have caught whites up in the QCIs and really wanted them to be great but after trying a piece I ended up giving all the meat from 2- 30lbs. fish away to freinds and family. I can also taste the difference and prefer red spring over any other salmon. I even had some done up profesionally into indian candy and in the packages the white and red were inter mixed and the red indian candy was way better than the white in flavour, texture and moisture.
-
sorry everyday, didn't know you had some experience in the field. here's a helpful site on the question. go to livingrivers.ca and punch up learn, scroll to difference in whites and reds.
those whites they trans planted to the vedder, chehalis, and harrison are another story, i usually only keep ones destined for the upper waters of the fraser. and if you catch one in the lower fraser, smell it first, they have a definitive smell to them. i call them risks to maintaining your marriage, i brought one home once, was told not to do it again.
-
Yoda, the white chinooks in the CV are from Harrison River stock. To my knowledge there have been no transplants to the Harrison from other chinook stocks. Interesting though, after fewer than 10 generations, geneticists see a difference in DNA between the donor stock and CV chinook. 8)
-
http://www.thinksalmon.com/learn/item/have_you_heard_of_white_fleshed_chinook_salmon1/
http://www.thinksalmon.com/learn/item/why_do_some_salmon_have_white_flesh/
-
http://www.thinksalmon.com/learn/item/have_you_heard_of_white_fleshed_chinook_salmon1/
http://www.thinksalmon.com/learn/item/why_do_some_salmon_have_white_flesh/
"In some salmon, the gene(s) responsible for depositing carotenoids into muscle are simply missing or present in low amounts. When this happens, salmon flesh won't turn the colour we're accustomed to seeing, and instead appear white, cream, or marbled."
I wonder why the white fleshed salmon seem to have a softer more oily texture than the red fleshed chinook.....
-
Our neighbours to the south sometimes call them Tule Chinook. See: http://www.fws.gov/gorgefish/springcreek/meetthefish.htm
I once read that the white Springs are a genetic group that only occurs in or near the Columbia as they only occur in this region and don't appear in Alaska or on the Asian side.