Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: fic on November 08, 2010, 01:53:48 PM
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So I was out with buddy on the weekend fishing somewhere in the Lower Mainland, and we encountered a whole bunch of chums that got "lost" on their way to the hatchery, and they were swimming in 8 inches of water stuck in this tiny creek which came to a dead end. Assuming the retention of chums were not cancelled, are you even allowed to fish for them in that shallow amount of water? I didn't see any no-fishing signs. We took some nice pictures and videos, but don't dare post it in case poachers figure out where it is.
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This kind of stuff happens....I wouldn't try to catch them as they would not bite in that kind of water....
this happens regularly on small rivers in the valley such as the chehalis...where I have gone to the extent of hand catching land locked coho from an almost dry creek/pond and run fast to the river and put them in....
Sometimes they know they are going to die/stress and spawn right where they are...is this a good thing I don't think so..
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Chum in creeks in 8 inches of water ARE SPAWNING.
They are to be left alone, not harassed.
Why anyone would even bother to fish for salmon at the very end of their journey is beyond me. ???
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Was making my way down towards the mouth of the Chehails to get way from the Vedder like crowds forming, and was practically tripping over them this weekend, they are an amazing fish, that seem to want to go as far as they can, I saw a couple this weekend in a puddle on the trail, that had to be at least 20 ft from the nearest creek...amazing stuff, I wanted to pick them up and move them, but I figure, let nature do its thing, it doesnt need men to get in the way of something thats been happening for thousands of years.
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As Milo said those fish are spawning. In some shallow Side channels along the vedder you will see lots of chum spawning in this shallow water. Not all fish go up to the hatchery
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Was making my way down towards the mouth of the Chehails to get way from the Vedder like crowds forming, and was practically tripping over them this weekend, they are an amazing fish, that seem to want to go as far as they can, I saw a couple this weekend in a puddle on the trail, that had to be at least 20 ft from the nearest creek...amazing stuff, I wanted to pick them up and move them, but I figure, let nature do its thing, it doesnt need men to get in the way of something thats been happening for thousands of years.
Pretty sad to say ill never fish the Chehalis on the weekend again. Too many people for my liking. Good point in the last sentence, I have though in the past picked up some dead ended chum and moved them to a main flow.
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do your best to step around,
think of all thr redds people are walking threw this time of year.
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I think the regs say the name of the creek or stream or river, and its tributaries. Can you imagine how many salmon were in these small puddles and streamlets before modern day people caught them to near extinction. I read somewhere the fish were so thick the whole stream was a moving mass of salmon with no open water showing.
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I checked the regs for b.c freshwater and you will see a star beside the creek, stream etc name. that star means no fishing including the tributaries. Heck everything is a tributary of some thing then.
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I checked the regs for b.c freshwater and you will see a star beside the creek, stream etc name. that star means no fishing including the tributaries. Heck everything is a tributary of some thing then.
I'll take a stab at it.
For BC Freshwater regulations, the Region 2 tables list the water specific exceptions to the regional regulations on pg 23. If there is an asterisk, then those exceptions apply to all of that body of water's tributaries (unless those tributaries are also listed in the table in which case those apply).
For example, Capilano River has exceptions. It also has an asterisk. Therefore, all non-listed tributaries to the Cap river have the same exceptions.
Compare this to Cheakamus river. It has exceptions. But it does not have an asterisk. Therefore the exceptions for Cheakmus river do not apply to the non-listed tributaries to the Cheakamus river but they must still adhere to the Regional regulations on page 23 and Provincial regulations on page 9-11.
The original thread however pertains to the freshwater salmon regulation by DFO which is separate from the BC Freshwater regulation.
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/fresh-douce/region2-eng.htm
The first regulation states:
"Unless otherwise stated in the table, the daily limit in all water of Region 2 is zero (0). "
So if the creek/stream in question is a tributary of a body of water in this table but it is not listed in the table by name and "tributaries" is not specified under Specific Area for that body of water, then the retention is 0.
For example, Seymour River which has a retention of 1 hatchery coho. It does not specify tributaries under "Specific Area". Therefore, there is no retention of coho in the Seymour river tributaries.
Compare this to Capilano River which has a retention of 4 hatchery coho. Under "Specific Area" column, it says "including tributaries". Therefore, the tributaries of the Cap river and Cap river itself has a combined retention of 4 hatchery coho.
Compare this to non-tidal Fraser River which has 2 hatchery coho retention. Chilliwack river is a tributary to the Fraser River but it is listed in the table so you would refer to this regulation which has a 4 hatchery coho retention when fishing this Fraser River tributary. Non-listed tributaries to the Fraser River would have a retention of 0 coho.
All else aside, the answer to the original question would then be... what does the regulation say about the body of water that this creek flows into? If the body of water allows retention but it doesn't specify tributaries, then there is no retention in this creek. I know the creek that the original poster is talking about and I know the body of water that this creek flows into, so I already know the answer to this question.
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even if the fish seem stranded and doomed u should leave em alone.u d be surprised where chum can spawn an be successful.and besides its gainst the law to harrass them.time to move on to winter steelys.
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Dont forget chum in particular are very good for fertilizing the ecosystem. So dying in a small side stream benefits the ecosystem (even if they dont spawn and reproduce) far more than dying in the main river and being washed way downstream. Not just the trout feeding on the eggs but the bears that drag the carcasses into the forest.
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Nature does not require human interference. Enhancement programs are in place only to correct prior interference.
Nature is great at trial & errors, perhaps that 8" creek turns out to be new spawning grounds. If only humans could be as good in balance and moderation.
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They were not spawning at the time, but would be a great buffet for bears and eagles.
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Expect them to drop the eggs/sperm like all ripe fish does once they're beached.
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Once came across 100's of large trout trapped in puddles of an outflow ditch/creek on the south end of 10 Mile Lake in BC.
The outflow was to a trickle because beaver had a dam right at the lake thus all these 100's of fish were trapped in these small ponds in the ditch/creek.
Decided to help the fish get back into the lake so I started ripping apart the beaver dam. Talk about HARD WORK as the sticks were so thick & jammed up. Remember I worked non stop aprox 2 hrs ripping away at the dam.
Lots of water started to flow so off I went...
Was TOTALLY SHOCKED when I found the whole dam was once again in place the following day.
Those beaver must of worked very very hard during the night. No way was I going to waste my time to rip it apart the 2nd time.
As far as those chums in puddles 20 ft from the creek...it's amazing that during a heavy rainfall how large these side creeks get...then after the rain stops they become small again. These chums got to those puddle locations when there was a big flow of water...& got trapped after the rain stopped. Ever see salmon on the news where they are swimming on flooded roadways or on people's front lawns after a heavy downpour & flooding ???
Nature is always surprizing & unpredictable.
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Ive seen Chum jumping in a flooded field .I guess the river flowed over an some fish went over the banks and into the field . I 'm thinking those were productive fields the next season! :D
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arimaBOATER> Studies have shown Beaver dams help rather than hinder Salmon & Trouts. Migratory fish find ways upstream, smolts benefits from the pond habitats. Though your intention was good the result was more damaging than helpful. Good thing the busy beavers undid that damage. Best way to help is to leave nature alone, our best intentions have lead to too many disasters.
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arimaBOATERnull Studies have shown Beaver dams help rather than hinder Salmon null Trouts. Migratory fish find ways upstream, smolts benefits from the pond habitats. Though your intention was good the result was more damaging than helpful. Good thing the busy beavers undid that damage. Best way to help is to leave nature alone, our best intentions have lead to too many disasters.
Care to share these studies. Or maybe a link to them??
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Transactions of the American Fisheries Society
January, Vol. 55, No. 1 : pp. 72-79
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burnaby your right...nature should be just left alone.
It was just so sad to see 100's of large trout trapped in puddles that were 6 inches deep then dry areas then another puddle & so forth... I thought the fish were sitting ducks for any black bear or coyote etc... plus with the summer weather the puddles would of dryed up & 100's of nice sized trout would of been killed.
Can only assume the trout got in the creek/ditch when it was flowing nicely but then the beaver came long & built a dam & trapped them from returning back into the lake.
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Intervention is a topic that we discussed with officers a few nights ago at the SFAC meeting. The recommendation is that, if you see a problem, the best thing to do is to phone the conservation office, or RAPP line first. The dispatcher will sometimes assess the situation, transfer you to the conservation officer if available. The conservation office will then recommend you, or grant you permission, to do what needs to be done, or he or she would attend the situation if nearby.
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CHUM DOG MILLIONAIRE ;D ;D ;D
http://moldychum.vodspot.tv/video/4859465-chum-dog-millionaire
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Ya Rod did go that route...but the response was "something along the lines" IF I CAN REMEMBER CORRECTLY (back in 1977)
"this type of situation is common & happens all the time in the area so..." was kinda the answer.
Did remember the chap was very friendly & listened intently & reconized my concern for the fish.