Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: slurpie on September 29, 2010, 10:31:45 PM
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Pink killed on the Capilano today.
It looked like a spring jack, chrome as can be. But upon closer inspection, .... low and behold..., a pink buck (the oval spots gave it away, esp on the tail)! Saw it with mine own eyes! And shocked as all heck. I've fished long enough to know the difference. This year is not a pink year on the mainland, so it's understandable that it was mistaken for a spring jack.
Has anyone else seen this? Could this be a lost island fish? Does the Seymour have an even year pink run and this is a lost Seymour pink?
??? ???
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And it didn't have black gums or that chinook odor? Very strange ???. I am certain the Seymour is odd years also.
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gums were black...
I couldn't smell it over the adult spring right next to it.
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It's quite plausible. I saw a sturgeon caught at the mouth of the Seymour during pink season a few years ago.
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Took this a couple weeks back in the hatchery
(http://www.aww-kittah-aww.com/up/public/171267/cappink.jpg)
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wow well those are some mixed up pinks ;)
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Wow... unless the hatchery is experimenting with enhancing even year pinks, could these be lost island pinks?
Took this a couple weeks back in the hatchery
(http://www.aww-kittah-aww.com/up/public/171267/cappink.jpg)
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I read an article about how pinks are the "salmon of the future". Apperently they are more capable of thriving in a warming ocean and because of their 2 year cycle, they are more responsive to environmental changes, as well, the article said that of the 5 pacific salmon they are the worst trackers. They often get lost and end up in non natal stream...this and the 2 year return allows them to grow and expand their range more quickly in a changing environment.
I would assume this is one of those lost pinks.
Now the damage to killing that pink (in terms of a run/resource) is pretty limited because its probably the onyl fish of its type in the river and most likely wouldn't have found a mate but it kills me in that its just another sign of a another F******* beak on the river that doesnt know his A** from his elbow! Pinks look NOTHING like springs...Jack or adult...the tiny scales on a pink, the lighter spots that are elongated (not round) the usually pointed jaw (pink), etc...just another STUPID angler. Put that guy on the vedder and its a Cultas sockete being mistaken for a coho. Man I hate hearing stories like this...proves how many dip s**** there are out there.
AND NO IT IS NOT UNDERSTANDABLE THAT THIS MISIDENTIFICATION OCCURED....thats like saying I was flossing sockeye and springs...when I hooked that THOMPSON STEELEHAD, I thought it was a spring because thats what I was expecting to hook.
What ever learn your fish identification!
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I read an article about how pinks are the "salmon of the future". Apperently they are more capable of thriving in a warming ocean and because of their 2 year cycle, they are more responsive to environmental changes, as well, the article said that of the 5 pacific salmon they are the worst trackers. They often get lost and end up in non natal stream...this and the 2 year return allows them to grow and expand their range more quickly in a changing environment.
I would assume this is one of those lost pinks.
Now the damage to killing that pink (in terms of a run/resource) is pretty limited because its probably the onyl fish of its type in the river and most likely wouldn't have found a mate but it kills me in that its just another sign of a another F******* beak on the river that doesnt know his A** from his elbow! Pinks look NOTHING like springs...Jack or adult...the tiny scales on a pink, the lighter spots that are elongated (not round) the usually pointed jaw (pink), etc...just another STUPID angler. Put that guy on the vedder and its a Cultas sockete being mistaken for a coho. Man I hate hearing stories like this...proves how many dip s**** there are out there.
AND NO IT IS NOT UNDERSTANDABLE THAT THIS MISIDENTIFICATION OCCURED....thats like saying I was flossing sockeye and springs...when I hooked that THOMPSON STEELEHAD, I thought it was a spring because thats what I was expecting to hook.
What ever learn your fish identification!
I think you are having difficulties expressing your true feelings... ;D ;D ;D
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I read an article about how pinks are the "salmon of the future". Apperently they are more capable of thriving in a warming ocean and because of their 2 year cycle, they are more responsive to environmental changes, as well, the article said that of the 5 pacific salmon they are the worst trackers. They often get lost and end up in non natal stream...this and the 2 year return allows them to grow and expand their range more quickly in a changing environment.
I would assume this is one of those lost pinks.
Now the damage to killing that pink (in terms of a run/resource) is pretty limited because its probably the onyl fish of its type in the river and most likely wouldn't have found a mate but it kills me in that its just another sign of a another F******* beak on the river that doesnt know his A** from his elbow! Pinks look NOTHING like springs...Jack or adult...the tiny scales on a pink, the lighter spots that are elongated (not round) the usually pointed jaw (pink), etc...just another STUPID angler. Put that guy on the vedder and its a Cultas sockete being mistaken for a coho. Man I hate hearing stories like this...proves how many dip s**** there are out there.
AND NO IT IS NOT UNDERSTANDABLE THAT THIS MISIDENTIFICATION OCCURED....thats like saying I was flossing sockeye and springs...when I hooked that THOMPSON STEELEHAD, I thought it was a spring because thats what I was expecting to hook.
What ever learn your fish identification!
X2 ;D
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Cool on the pinks being there...
If 1 has been caught and 1 spotted in the hatchery then surely there have been many more.
Is it not late in the season in the year for a chrome pink???
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I think there are a lot of guys right now that are feeling really raw about this type of thing. There is some clown on Facebook standing there with the biggest S*** eating grin on his face you have ever seen...he's holding a dead thompson steelhead that he thought was a spring. Title of the album with that pic is "another good day snagging on the fraser". We heard reports of coho and steelhead bonked during sockeye season, a pink on the cap, cultas sockeye on the vedder, etc, etc, etc, etc.
I never heard/witnessed so many infractions like this when i was learning to river fish salmon 20 years ago. Yes there internet had made us more aware but I think that flossing sockeye is increasing the number of new anglers out there that dont have a clue. I spent a long time learning how to river fish. This included learning what presentations work best on which fish, etc. People who floss, they don't know what they are going to hook because they aren't targetting anything...they are out there snagging what ever is in the way and due to a weak knowledge base, they make mistakes like mistaking steelhead for springs, pinks for springs, sockeye for coho, chum for springs, etc, etc (saw that happen on the cap)...anyone see a pattern here? Thats right they cant tell ANY ONE SALMON FROM ANOTHER!!! >:(
I would be interested to know where these guys were fishing and how they were fishing ie were they flossing. Any specifics slurpie?
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Slurpie, I think you should kneel in front of Gooey and beg for forgiveness. Kissing his feet would be optional but it'd gain you more credits for future sinful acts.
As a moderator of this discussion, I'd be happy to set up this arrangement in the near future to resolve any potential conflicts.
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Hey Rod, I appreciate the offer but I think its unneecasry...it wasnt Slurpie that killed the pink...the way the report reads "saw it with my own two eyes" makes it sound like he witnessed someone else act.
Now if you can figure out who that beak is, then I'd be happy to pass the details along to DFO and then that beak can pay restitution to the appropriate authorities for "his sins".
Seriosuly Rod...a pink being confused with a spring...a steelehad with a spring, etc, etc why are these obvious mistakes like this being made?
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PS - Rod, tell me what you think of the Thomspson steelie being bonked. If that outrages you (as it has for many others) then this pink should be no different. You see we cant say, oh it was just a pink or it was just one lost fish out of a healthy run.
The issue at the root of this problem is a lack of species identifaction skills and as I pointed out its the same issue that leads to cultas socks being killed on the ved or coho and steelhead being killed on the fraser during sockeye.
So Rod put the sarcasm away and take a stand...is species identifaction important or not?
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Do you honestly think he doesn't care Gooey? He owns a website that is heavily focused on education, c'mon. You should pose the question to yourself whether being enraged by it helps the cause to make changes to our system or would a friendlier approach to those who don't know or are as obsessed about the sport as we are work in all of our favor including the fish. There is an issue for sure but we have all been outraged in the past and in my personal experience it has helped change jack s***. Im not saying I know what the answer is but what we have done so far including being pissed about hasn't helped.
Just an opinion.
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Assuming I read the rules correctly, pinks were open on the fraser this year (4 fish limit). I assume this is DFO not updating for even years??
does anyone know of any pinks being caught or bonked on the Fraser?
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Anyone who has ever fished around me would attest to the fact that I am a polite, friendly, and helpful fisher. I'm the type that likes helping random Joe land a fish, I have no issues with helping people with fish identification on the river, etc. Do I get fired up when I see mistake after mistake...you bet.
I'm a father of two young boys and I know that sometimes messages get across better with a soft voice and other times a message needs to be more forcibly delivered ;) After a slew of reports in the last 4 weeks with everything from steelehead to sockeye to pinks being misidentified, I am finding it to be a little much.
Either way, Rod's sarcastic post trivializes a mistake that is a genuine and significant issue within the sports fishing community and thats why I called him out on it.
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I read an article about how pinks are the "salmon of the future". Apperently they are more capable of thriving in a warming ocean and because of their 2 year cycle, they are more responsive to environmental changes, as well, the article said that of the 5 pacific salmon they are the worst trackers. They often get lost and end up in non natal stream...this and the 2 year return allows them to grow and expand their range more quickly in a changing environment.
I would assume this is one of those lost pinks.
Now the damage to killing that pink (in terms of a run/resource) is pretty limited because its probably the onyl fish of its type in the river and most likely wouldn't have found a mate but it kills me in that its just another sign of a another F******* beak on the river that doesnt know his A** from his elbow! Pinks look NOTHING like springs...Jack or adult...the tiny scales on a pink, the lighter spots that are elongated (not round) the usually pointed jaw (pink), etc...just another STUPID angler. Put that guy on the vedder and its a Cultas sockete being mistaken for a coho. Man I hate hearing stories like this...proves how many dip s**** there are out there.
AND NO IT IS NOT UNDERSTANDABLE THAT THIS MISIDENTIFICATION OCCURED....thats like saying I was flossing sockeye and springs...when I hooked that THOMPSON STEELEHAD, I thought it was a spring because thats what I was expecting to hook.
What ever learn your fish identification!
a few years back, you took a lot of heat for killing a summer run steelhead from a local flow...people were bashing you because they claimed you harvested a fish from a small and fragile run... as important as fish identification is, i believe circumstances should be taken into consideration.
what's worse?... killing because you're entitled, even when you shouldn't?.... or killing because you made an honest mistake?
before you answer...i'd like to know if you've never misidentified or had to do a double take on identifying a species?...i know i have, especially fishing the saltchuck.
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man thats going back...."a few years" (???) more like 6-7 years, maybe even 10.
I still remember that day...what a day it was...I hooked into 3 or four different species (a summer run, coho and chinook). Connected on bait, spinner and jigs and yes, I took one summer run from the seymour when it was open (and legal), thats the only one I ever harvested there. Would I play it diferently today given the same circumstances...probably but at that time I chose a legal option.
Have I ever killed a fish due to a misidentification: no. While out trolling in Uki last summer, there was a number of times that I had to look closely at a fish flopping around at the side of a boat before we decided to even net it or not (we wouldnt net a wild coho) but I am very confident when I say that if I get a pacific salmon in my hands, I will correctly identify it every time.
So while I appreciate you bringing the summer run up again after what could be a decade, I really don't think it compares to not being able to identify a species and then killing it when it should be released....in fact these are two totally separate issue.
Seeing as you seem to want to discuss none related topics, maybe you would like to start a new post and we can rehash the summer run. MAybe you could give me your thoughts on using bait for thompson steelhead or maybe we could discuss the fact that there is even a catch and release fishery on this endangered run (which isn't even supported by a hatchery). Catch and release does create stress in increase the chance of mortality in the thompson fish so I wonder if you on your high horse have ever fished the thompson for steelies (bait or otherwise).
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There were some pinks returning from pens at nanaimo harbour this year,they must have spread out looking for spawning rivers,not sure of the brood stock river might be campbell river hatchery. also i saw a chum bonked a couple of years ago in the cap. the bait ban is ignored by some who dont think its needed.
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Anyone who has ever fished around me would attest to the fact that I am a polite, friendly, and helpful fisher. I'm the type that likes helping random Joe land a fish, I have no issues with helping people with fish identification on the river, etc. Do I get fired up when I see mistake after mistake...you bet.
I'm a father of two young boys and I know that sometimes messages get across better with a soft voice and other times a message needs to be more forcibly delivered ;) After a slew of reports in the last 4 weeks with everything from steelehead to sockeye to pinks being misidentified, I am finding it to be a little much.
Either way, Rod's sarcastic post trivializes a mistake that is a genuine and significant issue within the sports fishing community and thats why I called him out on it.
There are definitely bad apples out there that have no respect for the laws (usually REPEAT offenders) and they should be persecuted to the full extent of the law (should be more than a fine IMO). With that being said we have to be REAL, most anglers (usually new ones) are uneducated or misinformed - as they are eager to experience the excitement of catching a fish. They are unaware of the rules and regulations and more importantly the PURPOSE behind them. A lot of people who start fishing do not realize how technical fishing actually is, and how much knowledge plays a significant role in contributing to one's success rate. Let me make this clear - Ignorance is no excuse, and repercussions should be handed out, but we must make the distinction between the uneducated/misinformed from the bad apples. Do we punish the ppl who j-walk the same way as we do to the murderers? Reform them by education so that the longevity of the sport can be carried on to generations to come.
The point is PREVENTION, the organizations who issue the licenses to the public need to take on more responsibility. Educating the consumer on the limitations of their license, provide a small diagram of catchable/uncatchable local fishes, or a multiple choice quiz to match the salmon in order to get the salmon tag, have the licensee sign a waiver after receiving the booklet that they acknowledge the repercussions of not obliging by the info booklet.... etc etc (just random ideas). Bottom line is we do not live in a perfect world, whether it be accidental or not these things will always happen but we can take measures to mitigate these occurrences.
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Gooey I agree with you whole heartadly im sick and tired of watching people kill fish without the slightest clue of what they just killed its big and silver must be a spring oh its small and silver must be a sockeye there arent any other species out there! ::)
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If pinks are in the Capilano, what are the odds they are also in other systems? ie Seymour, Indian, Squamish, etc...
How many pairs of spawning salmon make a viable run?
Could this possibly be the beginnings of an even year pink run in some systems on the mainland?
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was the pic taken from capilano river? looks like the river is really shallow
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man thats going back...."a few years" (???) more like 6-7 years, maybe even 10.
I still remember that day...what a day it was...I hooked into 3 or four different species (a summer run, coho and chinook). Connected on bait, spinner and jigs and yes, I took one summer run from the seymour when it was open (and legal), thats the only one I ever harvested there. Would I play it diferently today given the same circumstances...probably but at that time I chose a legal option.
Have I ever killed a fish due to a misidentification: no. While out trolling in Uki last summer, there was a number of times that I had to look closely at a fish flopping around at the side of a boat before we decided to even net it or not (we wouldnt net a wild coho) but I am very confident when I say that if I get a pacific salmon in my hands, I will correctly identify it every time.
So while I appreciate you bringing the summer run up again after what could be a decade, I really don't think it compares to not being able to identify a species and then killing it when it should be released....in fact these are two totally separate issue.
Seeing as you seem to want to discuss none related topics, maybe you would like to start a new post and we can rehash the summer run. MAybe you could give me your thoughts on using bait for thompson steelhead or maybe we could discuss the fact that there is even a catch and release fishery on this endangered run (which isn't even supported by a hatchery). Catch and release does create stress in increase the chance of mortality in the thompson fish so I wonder if you on your high horse have ever fished the thompson for steelies (bait or otherwise).
first of all, i was one of the guys who defended you based on legality and also took a lot of flack for doing so....second of all the topic is related because he killed a pink that was not closed to retention (i agree, maybe he shouldn't have because his lack of knowledge identifying it in the first place), but the point is he did not do it out of malice, so for you to call him derogatory names is uncalled for.... and then you have the balls to call Rodney out because he's trying to take the high road instead of bringing down the hammer of intimidation...3rd of all i'll get off my high horse when you get off your pillar of righteousness because your ethical views and credibility wore out the day you held the "anti flossing banner" in one hand and the "betty for sale" sign in the other.
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Gooey was correct in that I had witnessed it. It would have gone unnoticed had I not inspected it more closely.
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i totally agree, it's imperative to know your species...if you can't id the fish, don't retain it!... but there's a right way to get your point across... name calling is not one of them... i think that's what Rodney was trying to say.
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Have I ever killed a fish due to a misidentification: no. While out trolling in Uki last summer, there was a number of times that I had to look closely at a fish flopping around at the side of a boat before we decided to even net it or not (we wouldnt net a wild coho) but I am very confident when I say that if I get a pacific salmon in my hands, I will correctly identify it every time.
MAybe you could give me your thoughts on using bait for thompson steelhead or maybe we could discuss the fact that there is even a catch and release fishery on this endangered run (which isn't even supported by a hatchery). Catch and release does create stress in increase the chance of mortality in the thompson fish so I wonder if you on your high horse have ever fished the thompson for steelies (bait or otherwise).
i'm glad to hear you're a competent fisherman who knows all his salmonid species... i could have actually used you when i worked for a local fish plant as a quality control inspector..during that time we worked side by side with DFO to categorize, inspect and document confiscated fish...you'd be surprised at how easy it is to overlook cross breeds and ferrel fish like atlantic salmon...but hey, you're probably more keen than the officer who mistakened a chrome chum for for a sockeye...or the inspector who needed to confirm and reconfirm an atlantic.. did i mention the spotted sockeyes and faintly spotted cohos? i suppose that's why the regs specifies keeping the tail and head of a fish you retain, even if the skin is intact.
as far as fishing the Thompson, yes i have...why? for the experience...would i again? probably....am i concerned about their survival? of course.
do i believe in a catch and release fishery? not really... but it worked for the Sturgeon Conservation Society so who am i to say otherwise? we're talking about a species that actually made it on the endangered species list, but bounced back to be taken off it.
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Blade...your wrong, that pink wasnt a legal kill on the Cap.
The regs read: Unless otherwise stated in the table, the daily limit in all water of Region 2 is zero (0). Now look at the limits for the cap:
Capilano River including tributaries
Coho Jan 01-Aug 31 4 hatchery fish per day, only 2 over 30cm. Sep 01-Dec 31 4 hatchery fish per day.
Chinook Jan 01-Dec 31 4 per day, only 1 over 62cm.
The absence of a limit for pinks, or chums for that matter, it mean a species is CLOSED to retention. Now had pinks been open, I wouldn't have been critical. Fact is they are CLOSED so this goes down in the books as just another illegal kill due to a misidentification...that specific issue needs to change especially considering its so easy to learn your species idnetification!
BTW, comparing catch and release of sturgeon can not be compared to C&R on any salmonid...you know that, come one buddy! Sturgeon are so incredibly hardy and tough that there is no comparison!
On the betties comment you made, I havent sold them for 5-6 years...didnt sell a single one this year...I used to be able to make a nice little some off of selling betties. This summer due to the length, I probably could have easily grossed $2000. But like I said I didnt sell a single one. I stopped selling them when I started getting requests for 1oz which were being used on the Ved... so put that in your pipe and smoke it Blade! ;)
Yes I think we need to reform sports fishing and reign in flossing (and improve species ident.) so while some may not find my position credible, I certainly have no problem justifying what I say and standing behind it.
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OK its a pink this time better it wasnt a summer steelhead. But people do need to learn how to identify a fish, its not that hard.
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If pinks are in the Capilano, what are the odds they are also in other systems? ie Seymour, Indian, Squamish, etc...
How many pairs of spawning salmon make a viable run?
Could this possibly be the beginnings of an even year pink run in some systems on the mainland?
Pink salmon end up all over the place.
My Dad worked for DFO in the 60s & 70s and they attempted to start an even-year run in Jones creek.
2 years later they were working a fish wheel above Hope and caught some of the pinks from Jones there.
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Blade...your wrong, that pink wasnt a legal kill on the Cap.
The regs read: Unless otherwise stated in the table, the daily limit in all water of Region 2 is zero (0). Now look at the limits for the cap:
Capilano River including tributaries
Coho Jan 01-Aug 31 4 hatchery fish per day, only 2 over 30cm. Sep 01-Dec 31 4 hatchery fish per day.
Chinook Jan 01-Dec 31 4 per day, only 1 over 62cm.
The absence of a limit for pinks, or chums for that matter, it mean a species is CLOSED to retention. Now had pinks been open, I wouldn't have been critical. Fact is they are CLOSED so this goes down in the books as just another illegal kill due to a misidentification...that specific issue needs to change especially considering its so easy to learn your species idnetification!
BTW, comparing catch and release of sturgeon can not be compared to C&R on any salmonid...you know that, come one buddy! Sturgeon are so incredibly hardy and tough that there is no comparison!
On the betties comment you made, I havent sold them for 5-6 years...didnt sell a single one this year...I used to be able to make a nice little some off of selling betties. This summer due to the length, I probably could have easily grossed $2000. But like I said I didnt sell a single one. I stopped selling them when I started getting requests for 1oz which were being used on the Ved... so put that in your pipe and smoke it Blade! ;)
Yes I think we need to reform sports fishing and reign in flossing (and improve species ident.) so while some may not find my position credible, I certainly have no problem justifying what I say and standing behind it.
i stand corrected...i was thinking saltchuck... for that, i apologize Gooey...but as a vet rod, you still need to tone down how you express yourself...regardless of how frustrating it can be..especially on this forum where you've been a long standing member.
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some people here need to get l... more often, or just relax with a few beers or something ;D ;Dwow
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Seen one or two pinks in the Harrison and one in Weaver Creek just before the spawning channel was opened (Tuesday to be exact)