Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: slurpie on September 26, 2010, 09:17:22 PM
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Seen two sockeye today at the veddar. One released nicely and another in a cooler in the back of a proud fisherman. He thought he had a coho because it was clipped. When I told him it was a sockeye, he was verrrryyy sorry and uncomfortable about the mistaken ID. It was an honest mistake!
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I think you should have reported him ..... ???
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Not keeping the dead sockeye would be an honest mistake. That would have been reported in a heartbeat by me. >:(
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This has been talked about before, if you are unsure about what you have caught let it go. If I had witnessed it, I would have called it in.
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really too bad seeing all of these almost exctinct sockeye run getting mistaken as cohos
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Ok if we arnt going to spend the time to learn what kind of fish are in the waters we are going to fish, then why dont we mark these endangered run of sockeye someway else? add a small tag to the dorsal, maybe clip the anal fin back, if that doesnt affect the fishes survival? Last year we found 5 clipped sockeye on the beach, 2 were clearly hook by an angler.
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I think you should have reported him ..... ???
And then you think the DFO will dispatch a CO or something?? and if they do, would that fix the whole problem?
I personally believe that many of these individuals require some opportunities to educate themselves rather than paying $$ for a mistake that could have easily been prevented. The reality is that the current method of selling a fishing license with (or in most cases without) a copy of the Fishing Regulation provides minimal opportunity for educating a novice angler. Reporting individual incidents doesn't seem to make a significant difference. This system needs more checks and balances to ensure people take the responsibility of their actions.
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Its to bad this continuously happens. There are just to many anglers that don't have a clue what they are catching. I think there needs to be some sort of testing that happens in order to be able to fish systems in BC.
Justin
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Well if the fisher person is computer literate, they could sit down at their computer and read the nontidal fishing regs for their area. Failing that how hard is it to ask for a copy of the regulations at your local fishing store. Personally, I am getting tired of lazy fisher people who can't take the time to read up on the regs, and not know what time they are allowed to legally fish on a body of water, whether or not their hook should be barbless, and who have no idea what they have caught. Listen folks, this is not rocket science, if I could find the time to read up on the regs, educate myself on the various salmon species, then anyone else can do it too. All it takes is a little bit of time and commitment.
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http://www.fishingwithrod.com/fishy_news/070917_1.html
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Right now is traditionally peak migration timing for the Cultus Lake sockeye judging by Sweltzer Creek fence counts in the past 10 years. Every fish counts for this run, be extra careful and don't drag your fish up on the rocks.
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I dont know...I spent many years trolling the ocean before river fishing...my fish id was strong before I ever hit a river. These beaks killing socks on the vedder, thompson teelhead on the fraser, cuttthrout on the seymour (while target pinks), etc, etc. it kills me! It happens all over the place, all the time...it has to change!
Ever hear of a guy shooting a F****** moose when he was hunting deer or a black bear when he had a grizzly tag? NO...thats because CORE ensures a decent level of EDUCATION for individuals particapating in the sport. We need a more rigorous liceing process if we ever expect any of this to change.
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Sad....and again why a test should be mandatory to obtain a license. I actually can't think of very many other activities which give you a license without any testing. Its ridiculous that anybody regardless of knowledge can go out and just buy a fishing license. Don't know how many times i've seen guys fight a fish, pull it up onto shore, look at it for a minute then call somebody over and ask "can I keep"..... You should not be fishing if you cannot identify your catch!
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You should not be fishing if you cannot identify your catch!
I have yet to find any good websites that take into account the dynamic color changes of migrating salmon after 2 years of looking. I have learned way more on the river than I ever will from a book.
And as for CORE and hunting... I read the book once, passed with 95% and still cant tell a white tail from a mule. So the system is clearly wrong.
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And as for CORE and hunting... I read the book once, passed with 95% and still cant tell a white tail from a mule.
It's always easier if they are standing side by side...... ;D
Mule deer has the big ears, whitetail has the "whitetail"...... :D Of course the antler formation is different as well.
There, now you can go hunting with confidence! ;D ;D
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And as for CORE and hunting... I read the book once, passed with 95% and still cant tell a white tail from a mule. So the system is clearly wrong.
Estbalishing a similar qualifying method may not completely solve the issue but will definitely minimize these "Honest Mistakes". At least, there has to be an opportunity for educating and testing the newbie anglers prior to selling them a Salmon Stamp. We can not just afford to lose our scarce resources to a loose licensing process anymore. Someone has to step up and fix this process.
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Why is it legal to drag a fish up on the rocks in the first place....? Just askin'.... there are other ways to land a fish...seems like the first thing that should go if we're at all concerned about identification.
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Why is it legal to drag a fish up on the rocks in the first place....?
It isn't legal..... ??? "It is unlawful to release fish in a harmful manner"
If a CO catches you pulling a fish onto shore that will be released, he WILL give you a ticket.
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It isn't legal..... ??? "It is unlawful to release fish in a harmful manner"
If a CO catches you pulling a fish onto shore that will be released, he WILL give you a ticket.
You are right, alwaysfishn. That happened to an angler standing next to me last year in the Scale Bar when the guy dragged a Sockeye to the shore when fishing for springs.
But this statement keeps the door open to different interpretations. (harmful manner). I think there is a lot of room for improvement in the system from the licensing process to improving the regs, etc. I wonder why the management doesn't ask for inputs/ideas from the anglers community... ???
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I wonder why the management doesn't ask for inputs/ideas from the anglers community... ???
They do.
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/sfab-ccps-eng.htm
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This is for the fellow that can't tell the difference between a muley or whitetail, please get your eyes tested. Sorry to be blunt, but the differences are so obvious. If you made a comment like that on huntingbc, I can only imagine the rude comments that would be directed your way.
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If you made a comment like that on huntingbc, I can only imagine the rude comments that would be directed your way.
If you look on hunting bc you will see a number of my comments about CORE.
It was supposed to be a slightly TONGUE IN CHEEK comment, perhaps you shouldnt take things so literally.
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Hey man you are the one that made the comment. Reread what you posted, and in the future use some of the graphics if you want to make tongue in cheek comments like this ;D ;D. We can't read your mind on this site. Anyhow I am detracting from the original post about being able to tell a sockeye salmon from a coho.
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They do.
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/sfab-ccps-eng.htm
Thanks, Rod. This is an excellent source of information.
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Mandatory testing for salmon sticker should be required. The boat safe test may be bit of a joke but at least it is a start. Sad when anglers don't know the identifiers for the different types. "What spots" is no excuses. >:(??? ::)
Honest mistakes must be accompany with honest ticket. Our society requires reinforcement for compliance.
-1, stmt is very clear. Every angler I've commented to about not dragging a C&R sock onto the rock cause it is harmful has never argue the point. Everyone realize if they were dragged the same body length over the rocks it would be harmful.
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But this statement keeps the door open to different interpretations. (harmful manner). ...
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There are now posters showing the difference between adipose clipped sockeye and coho at most access points to the Vedder River. There appears to be a good number of sockeye in the lower river (today anyway) so those anglers unsure of salmon identification are urged to study these posters before angling.
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That's good to hear/see. However far too often, fishermen in their haste to rush to "the spot" will bypass these posters. At least the information is out there and visible so all can have access to the info...
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Not keeping the dead sockeye would be an honest mistake. That would have been reported in a heartbeat by me. >:(
Good for you. You have successfully created another statistic. And what good has this done for the person that took the fish? Absolutly nothing.
And then you think the DFO will dispatch a CO or something?? and if they do, would that fix the whole problem?
I personally believe that many of these individuals require some opportunities to educate themselves rather than paying $$ for a mistake that could have easily been prevented. The reality is that the current method of selling a fishing license with (or in most cases without) a copy of the Fishing Regulation provides minimal opportunity for educating a novice angler. Reporting individual incidents doesn't seem to make a significant difference. This system needs more checks and balances to ensure people take the responsibility of t
First inteligent thing said so far in this thread.
If you want to call and report someone, it’s your own prerogative, but at the end of the day it’s accomplished absolutely nothing other than generating another stat at the local DFO office, maybe pushed an officer out to the river for an extra few hours that week, but that’s about it.
I absolutely LOVE hearing all these people scream they call the DFO and report everyone they see doing something wrong - give license plates, names if they have them - blah blah blah. At the end of the day, they may show up at that person’s house but they have nothing on that person other than a complaint unless they have kept that fish (and think about it - who’s going to keep it if someone says something to them. 10 minutes down the road its out the door in the ditch if they have any brains).
You sir Shakespug and alwaysfishn are part of the problem. Always willing to scream about problems but not offer any solutions to the problem. Try educating that person about what has been done (and I don’t mean educating by verbally lashing that person in front of 100 other people with your manly lion voice - they’re going to feel about 2 inches tall when the realize what they have done, even without being lashed in front of everyone else). If you still want to report the issue, than now is the time to do so, you have done you part by "educating" the person that has done wrong. It’s a two way street here and until something has been done to get people the proper training before they are issued a license, this is going to continue.
If you don’t feel it’s your job to have to educate those who perhaps don’t know what they’re doing then maybe it’s time you give up the sport and pick up a set of knitting needles and some wool because its everyone’s business out there. Everyone is so quick to say all you need is the internet, get the details from there - well wtf did people do before the internet? They spoke with each other - Verbal communication. Try it out some time, give someone some tips, give them the info they need if you see they may be having troubles and guess what - you may prevent someone from illegally taking a fish before its too late!
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Well said Sapper. Those comments regarding immediately calling him in kind of ruffled my feathers a little. I totally agree that a person should be educated before hitting the flow. But when you get a new fisher that makes an honest mistake I think that you would get a better result by giving him a little education, and not in the form of lashing out at him. I am sure that any decent human being would be able to take that advice (if directed properly at him) and learn from the experience. Just a little thought, we all were once new fishers out there and how did we learn? I know most of my experience came in the form of asking questions and getting good advice for the most part. Anyways, that is just my two cents on the issue. Lets call it an unbiassed opinion. :)
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First inteligent thing said so far in this thread.
If you want to call and report someone, it’s your own prerogative, but at the end of the day it’s accomplished absolutely nothing other than generating another stat at the local DFO office, maybe pushed an officer out to the river for an extra few hours that week, but that’s about it.
I absolutely LOVE hearing all these people scream they call the DFO and report everyone they see doing something wrong - give license plates, names if they have them - blah blah blah. At the end of the day, they may show up at that person’s house but they have nothing on that person other than a complaint unless they have kept that fish (and think about it - who’s going to keep it if someone says something to them. 10 minutes down the road its out the door in the ditch if they have any brains).
Although I'm sure you have good intentions and believe what you have written, your statement is probably the least intelligent comment made on this thread. :(
While we can all probably agree that it may help to talk to fishermen when they are in the process or have committed a violation, it is fraught with problems. While you may have the ability to speak to someone in a non-confrontational way, most people don't have that ability.
That's why folks smarter than you or I have created the Observe, Record and Report (ORR) program.
Everyone should have this number in their cell phone. The more calls they receive the more attention the problem will get.
1-800-465-4336 or in Greater Vancouver: 604-607-4186 http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/points/ORR-ONS-eng.htm (http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/points/ORR-ONS-eng.htm)
Or call the provincial RAPP line Dial Toll Free 1-877-952-7277 http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/cos/rapp/form.htm (http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/cos/rapp/form.htm)
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Although I'm sure you have good intentions and believe what you have written, your statement is probably the least intelligent comment made on this thread. :(
While we can all probably agree that it may help to talk to fishermen when they are in the process or have committed a violation, it is fraught with problems. While you may have the ability to speak to someone in a non-confrontational way, most people don't have that ability.
That's why folks smarter than you or I have created the Observe, Record and Report (ORR) program.
Everyone should have this number in their cell phone. The more calls they receive the more attention the problem will get.
1-800-465-4336 or in Greater Vancouver: 604-607-4186 http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/points/ORR-ONS-eng.htm (http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/points/ORR-ONS-eng.htm)
Or call the provincial RAPP line Dial Toll Free 1-877-952-7277 http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/cos/rapp/form.htm (http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/cos/rapp/form.htm)
So hypothetically speaking, If you saw your little cousin or friend illegally retaining a fish, cause he/she didn't know any better , you would call them in to the ORR number ?? Give me a break man. There's the one's out there who don't care and the ones who don't know. Call in the ones who don't care, and try and help the ones who don't know. I'm sure you can tell the difference. Calling the CO or DFO doesn't always work in certain situations. I'm sure your hypothetical cousin/friend would like for you to help them out instead of calling the coppers on them ;D
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It isn't legal..... ??? "It is unlawful to release fish in a harmful manner"
If a CO catches you pulling a fish onto shore that will be released, he WILL give you a ticket.
You're missing my point.
If these people have a hard time identifying fish IN THEIR HANDS, how are they going to identify them in the water prior to dragging something up that they are "planning" on retaining? Remember, they think they have a "keeper".... it's more about preventing it from happening in the first place and good fish handling practices, retention or not. Again this is where education would go a LONG ways.
How many sockeye anglers did you see bring a fish in and drag it up on shore prior to properly ID'ing it? Since they were planning on retaining they probably saw it as legal right up until the point they figured out it was a thompson steelhead (or didn't figure it out).
see where I'm going with this...? It's a dangerous practice for retaining fish when peoples fish ID skills are so shoddy.
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There's the one's out there who don't care and the ones who don't know. Call in the ones who don't care, and try and help the ones who don't know. I'm sure you can tell the difference.
Please tell me how because I really can't judge peopel from their gender, race, look , etc. But I understand your point. IMHO, in this case educating is prior to reporting because the experience shows that those who don't know/understand the rules will continue to make "HONEST" mistakes!
I think we have a really well-edfined problem on our hands here: You can't put the full responsibility of a mistake (honest or not honest!) on individuals until you have an easy-to-understand set of rules and regulations and also the proper tools/methods to communicate those regs to people. The DFO has made it very easy and convenient for people to go online and buy a fishing license (I'm sure this has incerased the flow of $$ to their accounts) but the question is: Did they put enough tools/controls in place to make sure every person who buys an e-license will read and understand the regs??
You can only and ONLY enforce a law when the person becomes fully responsible for his/her action and I don't think if the DFO has done a good job in transferring that responsibility to the newbie anglers.
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So hypothetically speaking, If you saw your little cousin or friend illegally retaining a fish, cause he/she didn't know any better , you would call them in to the ORR number ?? Give me a break man. There's the one's out there who don't care and the ones who don't know. Call in the ones who don't care, and try and help the ones who don't know. I'm sure you can tell the difference. Calling the CO or DFO doesn't always work in certain situations. I'm sure your hypothetical cousin/friend would like for you to help them out instead of calling the coppers on them ;D
If you want to deal with the "hypothetical" I'm sure you can come up with all sorts of reasons to not report someone who is breaking the law... ???
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You're missing my point.
If these people have a hard time identifying fish IN THEIR HANDS, how are they going to identify them in the water prior to dragging something up that they are "planning" on retaining? Remember, they think they have a "keeper".... it's more about preventing it from happening in the first place and good fish handling practices, retention or not. Again this is where education would go a LONG ways.
How many sockeye anglers did you see bring a fish in and drag it up on shore prior to properly ID'ing it? Since they were planning on retaining they probably saw it as legal right up until the point they figured out it was a thompson steelhead (or didn't figure it out).
see where I'm going with this...? It's a dangerous practice for retaining fish when peoples fish ID skills are so shoddy.
I'm not disagreeing with you.... :)
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Although I'm sure you have good intentions and believe what you have written, your statement is probably the least intelligent comment made on this thread. :(
While we can all probably agree that it may help to talk to fishermen when they are in the process or have committed a violation, it is fraught with problems. While you may have the ability to speak to someone in a non-confrontational way, most people don't have that ability.
That's why folks smarter than you or I have created the Observe, Record and Report (ORR) program.
Everyone should have this number in their cell phone. The more calls they receive the more attention the problem will get.
1-800-465-4336 or in Greater Vancouver: 604-607-4186 http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/points/ORR-ONS-eng.htm (http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/points/ORR-ONS-eng.htm)
Or call the provincial RAPP line Dial Toll Free 1-877-952-7277 http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/cos/rapp/form.htm (http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/cos/rapp/form.htm)
I never said in my post don’t report it. My post was all about getting the info to those who aren’t in the know. I myself will report poachers when I see it happening, but at the end of the day reporting the issue has done nothing to prevent it from occurring again. This is a game of education. Its blatantly obvious who the individuals are that just don’t care. After speaking a few words with them regarding the situation, if they blow you off well then these are the people we need to get the license plate info on, pictures if you can and so on to the DFO.
Like I said earlier, reporting a fish poacher just creates another statistic. Reporting repeat offences by the same individual gets attention, and we all know that attention in the sport fishery is spotty due to the lack of resources at the DFO office. How many hundreds of kilometers of fishable rivers are in our region and only a handful of officer to enforce the regulations. Until this changes – educate and report.
I’ll emphasize the part you perhaps didn’t get in my first post.
Try educating that person about what has been done (and I don’t mean educating by verbally lashing that person in front of 100 other people with your manly lion voice - they’re going to feel about 2 inches tall when the realize what they have done, even without being lashed in front of everyone else). If you still want to report the issue, than now is the time to do so, you have done you part by "educating" the person that has done wrong.
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Lets sway away from questioning the intelligence of those who do not agree with you in discussions such as this please.
Protecting our fishery resource takes both education and enforcement. One is not necessarily more important than the other and each situation is dealt with differently. A conservation officer would not necessarily issue a fine when a family who is new to fishing is using a barbed hook. Education in this case would have more benefits in this case. A poacher who is fully aware of what he or she is doing when killing a protected fish would be a good candidate for a fine. An uneducated angler kills a hatchery marked Cultus Lake sockeye salmon is unfortunate, a fine maybe issued by a conservation officer if one is around, but making sure the angler does not make the same mistake again by informing him or her is beneficial in the long run if conservations are not around.
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Canada is a society of nice lazy folks needing gentle pampered treatment. Honest mistake makers upon signing their name on their paid license agree to abide by the rules. Excuse makers states rules are not clear, need more hand holding. Like any licensed activity the participants must take the responsibility of educating themselves on the rules or not participate.
An acquittance informed us they harvested clams not knowing a license is required. Truly an honest mistake. CO issued all the adults a $150 fine each. That story got around REAL quick to educate all. Enforcement works! speeding tickets slows speeder!
Cmon folks, way beyond needing to question the intelligence, you already have the answer, just can't say it.
Lets sway away from questioning the intelligence of those who do not agree with you in discussions such as this please.
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Posting this poster for Dave.
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/fishy_news/file/100928-1.doc
Feel free to print it out and carry it with you to the Vedder.
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Trying to get back on track here.
This weekend the Chilliwack-Vedder will be packed with anglers. The Cultus Lake sockeye run is in full swing right now with app. 6200 into the lake; not many compared to the Adams but substantial for this stock. Even better news is there are more to come as the lower river has many sockeye that will soon be entering Sweltzer Creek.
New anglers, please have a look at the link provided by Rod if you are unsure of proper fish identification. This stock is in peril and needs all the spawners it can get.
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Trying to get back on track here.
This weekend the Chilliwack-Vedder will be packed with anglers. The Cultus Lake sockeye run is in full swing right now with app. 6200 into the lake; not many compared to the Adams but substantial for this stock. Even better news is there are more to come as the lower river has many sockeye that will soon be entering Sweltzer Creek.
New anglers, please have a look at the link provided by Rod if you are unsure of proper fish identification. This stock is in peril and needs all the spawners it can get.
6200? unbelievable, what a great year.
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I'll ditto what Dave said, big year for Cultus Lake sockeye. That lake faces a lot of problems from all the different user groups, so to see a fishery rebounding somewhat in it is a positive sign that all is not lost.
I'll post a little story on the topic of this thread, yesterday I was fishing my favorite spot which just happens to be "near" where Sweltzer enters the Vedder and I watched an "Asian-Canadian" fishing right in Sweltzer Creek on the seem where it joins the Vedder. About 10 minutes after my arrival to the spot I saw him hook what looked like a typical sockeye sized fish and thought "I really hope he's not whacking Cultus Lake sockeye and hiding behind the language barrier excuse." I approached him in a civilized manner and asked him what type of fish he just caught, he brought me over to the fish and said "Hatchery coho" he then went on to say spots on back and tail with black tongue. He was spot on in his salmon ID, he obviously knew the different types and we had a small chat and it was back to fishing.
Crying foul to the DFO thinking any little problem is going to get fixed is pure fantasy. I really agree with Bently and his comment about there being 3 types of fishermen/woman, those who know, those who don't know, and those that don't care. It's the people that don't know that we all need to work on as knowledgeable stewards of the resource.
I have printed a copy of Rodney's poster regarding hatchery coho and clipped sockeye and will post it tomorrow morning near Vedder Crossing where Sweltzer joins the Vedder.