Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: hue-nut on July 03, 2009, 10:49:10 AM
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When it comes to bottom bouncing :o (seems to be the thing to do whenever mentioning b&b :o) the Fraser......I am wondering if some of the insane leader lengths actually catch more fish? I've not fished the Fraser enough for my observations to tell me otherwise but it seems to me that a 5'-10' leader would be just as effective if not more so than a 20'-30'. Simply because your leader swings downriver with the current, its not like you are actually covering more water with a longer leader, except maybe on the tail out. Let me know your opinions. I am not tying to start a big debate just trying to better target the Fraser Springs, without having to get a boat, new rod and reel, and lawn chair.
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the first and the foremost condition to better catch Chinook is their presence in the area you are targeting. Last Wednesday most of the guys were skunked regardless of their tackle and skill level simply because, as DFO officer pointed out, all the fish was holding in the restricted area (only 12 fish for over 100 rods in 14 hour period :( ). BTW, it was fun to watch them chasing 50 guys :o out of the no-fishing zone. I asked the officer if they will ever open it, for which he replied it's all in our hands to initiate that process. I have found a new house was built right in the newly cleared lot right above the zone, which suggests the owners would not like anything changed. Pardon for hijacking the thread....
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If you cast out at 10:00 or 11:00 o'clock angle your leader will travel to the side of the betty and bouncing up and down as the betty bottom bounces; this is the most effective part of the cast and results in more fish being hooked in the mouth. Past 2 o'clock your leader will be travelling down stream. It is still possible to hook fish in the mouth because they may not be travelling in a straight line. The end of the drift is where the most foul hook ups occur. Therefore you are covering more area with a longer leader. The problem with a longer leader though is your casting will may be affected depending on the size of rod you are using. Not to mention the guy beside you will be flinching everytime you cast if you are one of those guys whom does not pay attention to where there hook is before they cast. Ideally you should flick your leader directly over head so that it lays straight out directly behind you, not to the side where it may hook someone. If you get good at flicking your leader back and cast quickly you will get a better cast because the hook won't have time to sink into the water which causes resistance and has a large effect on the cast. That is why too long of a leader will affect your cast because it becomes unmanagable. The longer the rod the longer the leader can be used and the further you will be able to cast.
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Is it possible to cast 20-30 feet leaders ? :)
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thanks eagle eye, and yeah it is definitely possible to cast 20-30 foot leaders, see guys do it quite often and it is pretty freaky when crowded.
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i tried casting a leader about 20 feet long, mind you that was my first season BBing and the guy with the long leader was getting fish all day. It cast okay but you really needed to pat attention to where it lands and make sure its not moving downstream towards you as i hooked myself a few times and even the guy next to me once LOL
now i normally BB with a 10 foot or so leader (i dont measure it out) and catch lots of fish. depending on where your fishing you might only need to cast 50-80feet out to get into sockeye all day and further to hit springs.
here is the biggest thing that up'ed my catch ratio though. I got rid of the mono and went to 80lb braided line, with this line you can feel every little tap and rub in the bounce which made for alot more & better hookups.
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I've wondered about Eagleye's theory for several years. I'd sure like to get some guys together and test that out in some clear water with some depth to it. couple of guys to cast, and a couple more to observe what really happens to the line.
What I've been able to see on my own is that once the weight begins "bouncing" the leader soon moves directly downstream of the weight. "Bouncing" is actually the weight stopping temporarily on the bottom until the drag on the line gets great enough to move the weight. If we take any weight, even a 1oz, and drop it in the river, it's pretty much going down to the bottom and staying put. It is only the drag of the water against the line that causes "bounce". Which brings us to another point - the fatter your line, the more drag the water will have on it and the faster it will "bounce". It takes some experimentation to get the right line diameter and weight size to obtain the cast-distance and bounce you're wanting.
Because the weight is stopping frequently, and the hook/corkie/wool is not, your leader is pretty much running directly downstream for most of the run. It is only when the weight starts coming back toward the shore you're on that the line is cross stream. The technique used for Coho and Steelhead of getting the line out in a slot and continuing to let line slip doesn't work the same when BB'ing in the Fraser.
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I've wondered about Eagleye's theory for several years. I'd sure like to get some guys together and test that out in some clear water with some depth to it. couple of guys to cast, and a couple more to observe what really happens to the line.
What I've been able to see on my own is that once the weight begins "bouncing" the leader soon moves directly downstream of the weight. "Bouncing" is actually the weight stopping temporarily on the bottom until the drag on the line gets great enough to move the weight. If we take any weight, even a 1oz, and drop it in the river, it's pretty much going down to the bottom and staying put. It is only the drag of the water against the line that causes "bounce". Which brings us to another point - the fatter your line, the more drag the water will have on it and the faster it will "bounce". It takes some experimentation to get the right line diameter and weight size to obtain the cast-distance and bounce you're wanting.
Because the weight is stopping frequently, and the hook/corkie/wool is not, your leader is pretty much running directly downstream for most of the run. It is only when the weight starts coming back toward the shore you're on that the line is cross stream. The technique used for Coho and Steelhead of getting the line out in a slot and continuing to let line slip doesn't work the same when BB'ing in the Fraser.
very interesting, that's what i've been pondering. Eagleye's theory sounds good to me but I have been thinking lately that a shorter leader would be better in the sense that it stays down where the fish are travelling. It seems to me that a 20' leader with size 8 corkie probably is not going to be 12" off the bottom, more likely it would be up quite high.
thanks for the replies guys
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How do you explain the fact that hookups between 11:00 and 2:00 are generally in the mouth and past 2 o'clock resluts in a lot of foul hook ups?
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Between 11 and noon the hook is still dropping - from noon to 2 it's making it's way to be downstream of the weight. By 2 or later the hook is running downstream of the weight and most likely parallel to the fishes 'far side" as the lweights sweeps back in. The common obstacles it can hook into would be a pectoral fin or jaw hinge.
A large majority of my catches are: in the mouth, upper.
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that is exactly the way I described it the leader is pointing downstream after 2 o'clock. Not sure how our opinions differ. Could you explain further...
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42 feet long, 6/0 hook and red wool, not green, i said red, these fish are hungry people.
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that is exactly the way I described it the leader is pointing downstream after 2 o'clock. Not sure how our opinions differ. Could you explain further...
this makes sense to me
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42 feet long, 6/0 hook and red wool, not green, i said red, these fish are hungry people.
lol :D :D
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BTW, it was fun to watch them chasing 50 guys :o out of the no-fishing zone. I asked the officer if they will ever open it, for which he replied it's all in our hands to initiate that process. I have found a new house was built right in the newly cleared lot right above the zone, which suggests the owners would not like anything changed. Pardon for hijacking the thread....
I heard it was shut down due to anglers leaving lots of trash and shitting on the person's property. I also heard there was an incident with a knife among anglers. Sounds like a select few spoiled it for everyone. IMO they should give out littering fines and put up signs or something not take away our right to access.
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eagle eye you are correct about why it was closed off,but at that time you could fish 24 hrs. so people were there all night partying and fishing. now fishing is closed at night the problem has gone. i hear that guys are going there at 3am to get good spots near the marker,but when the river drops in wont be the only place for springs.
i went from 10 ft to 15 and got more fish. if the sockeye run is very big then 10ft will be fine.
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one thing if you do have to chase the fish in a boat a long leader sucks, you reel to you weight and then it is run around the boat time, trying to take the slack out of the line..
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i hear that guys are going there at 3am to get good spots near the marker,
now they will have to get there at 2 am... :o Whenever someone asks me what time I arrived at a fishing hole I never give an exact time I just say early or before you.
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When your using a 20 plus feet of leader, you'll have to set the hook harder if you have a shorter rod or you'll lose the fish :o.
So using a 10 to 12 foot leader means setting the hook will be a lot easier and catching more.
Gotcha
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When your using a 20 plus feet of leader, you'll have to set the hook harder if you have a shorter rod or you'll lose the fish :o.
So using a 10 to 12 foot leader means setting the hook will be a lot easier and catching more.
Gotcha
Saw one guy with 7' rod and 25'+ leader landing fish. I don't now how he cast.
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Some observations from this years season: I found hook size to be more important this year than leader length; I use a 6/0 hook with a good size corkie and a leader approximately 12-15 feet long. I figure the bigger hook gives be a better chance of holding onto a fish as there is more steel in his mouth; I found this to be very true as I have had a few scrappy springs on this year and haven't lost one yet (knock on wood). I have also found that all of my hookups this year have been between 1 and 3 oclock in my drift; not at the end. I have also witnessed that using the lightest weight possible while still having a decent bounce has fished better; using a 5 ounce betty where not warranted has not fished well for me at all...maybe too slow and not getting the drift? Some feedback from others would be welcome on these points.
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Some folks may consider your opinions BB inspiring...
My opininion is that fishing for salmon should be defined as catching fis with a rod + line ended in a lure (spoon, jig, fly, minnow,
roe, etc) with one hook. No extra floats, weights, or anything else. This is the only way to end BB.
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My opininion is that fishing for salmon should be defined as catching fis with a rod + line ended in a lure (spoon, jig, fly, minnow,
roe, etc) with one hook. No extra floats, weights, or anything else. This is the only way to end BB.
I don't totally understand what you are saying. So people should flyfish or cast and retrieve lures only? No floats or weights allowed. What about bar fishing, or sturgoen fishing, how are you going to to that without weight? Whats wrong with float fishing (with a short leader) rivers like the vedder, etc? How do you suggest you fish roe on a river with no weight or float lol
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Some folks may consider your opinions BB inspiring...
My opininion is that fishing for salmon should be defined as catching fis with a rod + line ended in a lure (spoon, jig, fly, minnow,
roe, etc) with one hook. No extra floats, weights, or anything else. This is the only way to end BB.
May be you should go to the extend say no fishing at all.
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only for salmon fishing!
and, of course, to make it more challenging and less proficient!
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One of the reasons they closed this section is due to the large numbers of snagged fish being kept.Its the same situation with the limits hole on the vedder,people report the poachers and the easiest way to deal with the problem is shut the area like you say afew bad seeds wreck it for everyone.
stick with a 10 to 12 foot leader that way you spend more time fishing less time messing with your gear and add a couple of red sinking beads from any craft store works wonders for me.