Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Murmillo on September 29, 2008, 10:27:49 PM
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I am sure all of you noticed that there is a big gang show just down stream of the Vedder crossing. I and my friend went there to see what makes so many people together in a small place. After going there I got shocked. I saw 15 people fishing in fast water followed by a small hole. Big weight and long leader was the common gear used and result is obvious, Snagging. We stand there for 20 minutes and saw that at least 8 fish hooked within that short period of time and all of those were snagged. We were there at mid day, when normally fish movement is slow. So I can imagine how many fish is being snagged in that hole per day. Can’t we do anything? Or we just need to watch this kind of poaching and destruction of the fisheries?
We tried to talk with some people there and they act like we are alien..
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Every Day already mentioned it in another thread.
Easy access, close to a parking lot - a beek magnet.
Only thing that gives me some solace is that whenever anyone snags a fish, it causes quite a ripple - others have to stop snagging while the busy beek plays the fish. I like to think that during that window of opportunity, a bunch of fish manages to get through.
Bulldoze the bloody thing and be done with it.
It's so nice when you can catch a fish and don't even have to yell 'FISH ON", because nobody is around (except maybe a friend or two who you happen to fish with and who will stop fishing to lend you a hand if necessary).
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Every Day already mentioned it in another thread.
Easy access, close to a parking lot - a beek magnet.
Only thing that gives me some solace is that whenever anyone snags a fish, it causes quite a ripple - others have to stop snagging while the busy beek plays the fish. I like to think that during that window of opportunity, a bunch of fish manages to get through.
Bulldoze the bloody thing and be done with it.
It's so nice when you can catch a fish and don't even have to yell 'FISH ON", because nobody is around (except maybe a friend or two who you happen to fish with and who will stop fishing to lend you a hand if necessary).
nicely said milo
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ooops, meant to just quote the last few sentences
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It sure is frustrating when you hear of crap like that. Guys spend money on good fishing setups and then resort to illegal practices to get their salmon. How people like that can be proud of what they catch always makes me shake my head. Also DFO should get down there as well as the local COs. If nothing else but to read the riot act and to hand out some tickets for snagging. Not only are the snaggers giving salmon fishing a black eye as people will stop to watch, but think of the damage they do to the salmon as they have to survive this gauntlet of hooks and then try and make it to their spawning grounds.
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It sure is frustrating when you hear of crap like that. Guys spend money on good fishing setups and then resort to illegal practices to get their salmon. How people like that can be proud of what they catch always makes me shake my head. Also DFO should get down there as well as the local COs. If nothing else but to read the riot act and to hand out some tickets for snagging. Not only are the snaggers giving salmon fishing a black eye as people will stop to watch, but think of the damage they do to the salmon as they have to survive this gauntlet of hooks and then try and make it to their spawning grounds.
They have been there, tickets have been issued but I agree they should try to be there more.
As I said a couple of weeks ago if you remember, this is another downside of these pits.
Not only is gravel removal bad for fish habitat but it would create snagging grounds for some people, they are probally lined up there now as I typed this, ready to start the snag fest in a couple of hours. ??? ::)
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they should just close the river from the bridge down to there, as the cultus sockeye are sure to stack up in those holes before moving up.
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they should just close the river from the bridge down to there, as the cultus sockeye are sure to stack up in those holes before moving up.
Why not from Vedder Crossing and down to Fraser confluence. As low water fish will stay in various pools, oh and may be rest of the river as Chilliwack Lake sockeye move through entire system. ::)
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1 more thing
I have seen 90 % of fishermen releasing fish by putting their hands to the gill even they are fishing ethically
is it a safe practice to do so ?
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1 more thing
I have seen 90 % of fishermen releasing fish by putting their hands to the gill even they are fishing ethically
is it a safe practice to do so ?
NO! A fish should ALWAYS be tailed if you are going to release it, and it should be done so in 1-2 feet of water optimally. The fish shouldn't be removed from the water (unless a quick photo is desired), and then the fish should be held gently into the current to encourage water to flow through it's mouth and out it's gills.
Fish's gills are perhaps the most sensitive part of it's body, and unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing (and even then you're probably still likely to do some unecessary damage), sticking your hand in there could prove deadly to the fish - think of it's gills as it's lungs, but exposed. Would you want someone sticking their hand into your guts if there was a hole in your stomach?
Good question - now armed with this information, share it with others who may not know the proper way to release a fish.
:D
Tex
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1 more thing
I have seen 90 % of fishermen releasing fish by putting their hands to the gill even they are fishing ethically
is it a safe practice to do so ?
NO! A fish should ALWAYS be tailed if you are going to release it, and it should be done so in 1-2 feet of water optimally. The fish shouldn't be removed from the water (unless a quick photo is desired), and then the fish should be held gently into the current to encourage water to flow through it's mouth and out it's gills.
Fish's gills are perhaps the most sensitive part of it's body, and unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing (and even then you're probably still likely to do some unecessary damage), sticking your hand in there could prove deadly to the fish - think of it's gills as it's lungs, but exposed. Would you want someone sticking their hand into your guts if there was a hole in your stomach?
Good question - now armed with this information, share it with others who may not know the proper way to release a fish.
:D
Tex
exactly
people keep making topics about bb-ing but what about those fishermen that think a fish is a worthless kind of animal and putting their hands to the gill when release for easyness..
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I'd like to add that once you have tailed the fish, turn it over, so it lies belly up in the water.
That seems to calm them down, and makes unhooking them much easier.
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Great tip, Milo! I always forget that seems to help calm them down.
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They have been there, tickets have been issued but I agree they should try to be there more.
Chris, pardon my French, by issuing tickets doesn't mean squat!
Couple of hundred bucks is not going to deter this behavior.
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Could someone enlighten me as to what the "abutment" hole is?
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Could someone enlighten me as to what the "abutment" hole is?
Sure, I can do that for you. It's just below the hatchery before the river turns hard away from the road and it narrows up and fish get funnelled through. It's like fishing in a barrel. It will be easy to see as it will be lined shoulder to shoulder with people that say they are fisherman but in fact they are not. This people are your typical meat fisherman that use a power winch and a meatstick to haul in there most often foul hooked fish. Ok, I'm being polite, they are usually snagged in the back, bonked, and then stored in their camper right behind them. Who knows how many fish they stash away in one day? You will notice that english is not the most commonly used language at this hole and are not your class A citizens of British Columbia.
The same can be said for the hole just below the Vedder Crossing. How those fish pass that gauntlet is beyond me! Wilson road is getting like this as well. When will the insanity stop?
Gawd, personal ethics have sure gone down hill. There has to be some way to get around this. My suggestions are for stiffer penalties, more of them and possibly having the Vedder go to a "tag" system. Similar to fishing classified waters, you would have to buy a tag for your licencse that is specific for the Vedder. I'm sure this would alleviate the gong show from happening on the easiest access holes.
Don't mean to be so negative but if you were to go out on the Vedder and drive around checking out these more popular holes, I'm sure you'd agree.
Thoughts???
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Could someone enlighten me as to what the "abutment" hole is?
Sure, I can do that for you. It's just below the hatchery before the river turns hard away from the road and it narrows up and fish get funnelled through. It's like fishing in a barrel. It will be easy to see as it will be lined shoulder to shoulder with people that say they are fisherman but in fact they are not. This people are your typical meat fisherman that use a power winch and a meatstick to haul in there most often foul hooked fish. Ok, I'm being polite, they are usually snagged in the back, bonked, and then stored in their camper right behind them. Who knows how many fish they stash away in one day? You will notice that english is not the most commonly used language at this hole and are not your class A citizens of British Columbia.
The same can be said for the hole just below the Vedder Crossing. How those fish pass that gauntlet is beyond me! Wilson road is getting like this as well. When will the insanity stop?
Gawd, personal ethics have sure gone down hill. There has to be some way to get around this. My suggestions are for stiffer penalties, more of them and possibly having the Vedder go to a "tag" system. Similar to fishing classified waters, you would have to buy a tag for your licencse that is specific for the Vedder. I'm sure this would alleviate the gong show from happening on the easiest access holes.
Don't mean to be so negative but if you were to go out on the Vedder and drive around checking out these more popular holes, I'm sure you'd agree.
Thoughts???
Apparently I'm wrong, little confused but everything still applies.
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I count 26 beaks in the pic
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Yup, half of them will have tackle boxes, coffee grinders, and most likely showed up at 8:00am and snaked their way between the people that were there at 5:30am. :-\
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Please keep the discussion objective otherwise. If we intend to start the tongue and cheek talk and labelling people based on where they fish, how they dress, then we should not be having this discussion at all.
If people want to bring a tackle box and coffee grinder to the river, then they are entitled to do so without being judged. What is being judged here is the action of certain individuals who are not following the regulations.
There is a big problem, start developing solutions and put forward them to those who can make a difference so there is progress, otherwise it'll just be another snagging thread like last year, and the year before.
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The weather forecast calls for periods of rain from Thursday onwards. Hope this will help spread out the fish in some of these areas.
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I agree with Rodney. Too often people get labelled as beeks just because they are using coffee grinders, wearing yellow raincoats or fishing a particular piece of water. Just because you're using $400 fishing rods, reels etc. does not preclude you from snagging.
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I agree with Rodney. Too often people get labelled as beeks just because they are using coffee grinders, wearing yellow raincoats or fishing a particular piece of water. Just because you're using $400 fishing rods, reels etc. does not preclude you from snagging.
This is true........they're everywhere and seem to multiply every year at an exponential rate.
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they should just close the river from the bridge down to there, as the cultus sockeye are sure to stack up in those holes before moving up.
Why not from Vedder Crossing and down to Fraser confluence. As low water fish will stay in various pools, oh and may be rest of the river as Chilliwack Lake sockeye move through entire system. ::)
my reason being, they often hold up in those 2 pools around the bridge before making the trip up sweltzer creek and its more likely they will be repeatedly abused...
and the chilliwack lake strain is doing very well compared to the cultus lake run and it comes in earlier but is still around now. it doesnt need as much as help as the endangered cultus fish do. but i guess you already knew that judging by your post ::)
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they should just close the river from the bridge down to there, as the cultus sockeye are sure to stack up in those holes before moving up.
Why not from Vedder Crossing and down to Fraser confluence. As low water fish will stay in various pools, oh and may be rest of the river as Chilliwack Lake sockeye move through entire system. ::)
my reason being, they often hold up in those 2 pools around the bridge before making the trip up sweltzer creek and its more likely they will be repeatedly abused...
and the chilliwack lake strain is doing very well compared to the cultus lake run and it comes in earlier but is still around now. it doesnt need as much as help as the endangered cultus fish do. but i guess you already knew that judging by your post ::)
Interesting you say the Cultus sockeyes hold up in the pool just below Vedder Crossing. The way those 'snaggers' fishing by dragging bottom it'll most likely hit a spring not sockeye. Look where people has been reporting sockeyes been caught. It's usually in the shallower pools and runs not in the deep pools. ;)
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Could someone enlighten me as to what the "abutment" hole is?
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i291/s_dykstra/Fishing/IMGP3146.jpg)
Holy CRAP. I feel angry and sad looking at that picture - those fish don't stand a chance! Talk about "running the guantlet"...
One more reason I enjoy going for a hike when I get to the Vedder - get away from those crowds.
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hey, Tex..
On Sunday, after the river clean-up, I was fishing with milo and banny and had a guy with gear land a chum and a large spring by dragging it onto shore, then seeing if it's worth keeping, before deciding to let it go. The spring seemed to take forever to revive, but he did make it. Shouldn't they be deciding before they drag it to their car if they are keeping or not? I know some people can tell what kind of species they have on before seeing the fish by how the fish is fighting (or lack of a fight). I liked banny's approach of using lighter leader so when you know you have a fish on your fly-rod that is too big for you to land properly, you just lean back and snap it off...on purpose (I've used that excuse before, but it's usually when i've done a long distance realease).
Milo, I thought the idea of turning a fish over to settle it down was just for trout? Am I wrong on that?
Bryan
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hey, Tex..
On Sunday, after the river clean-up, I was fishing with milo and banny and had a guy with gear land a chum and a large spring by dragging it onto shore, then seeing if it's worth keeping, before deciding to let it go. The spring seemed to take forever to revive, but he did make it. Shouldn't they be deciding before they drag it to their car if they are keeping or not? I know some people can tell what kind of species they have on before seeing the fish by how the fish is fighting (or lack of a fight).
Bryan
Hey Bryan,
Yes, of course they should be deciding WELL ahead of dragging it up to their car. lol I can typically tell what species of salmon I have at the end of my line before seeing it, but not always. They key is to be wearing a pair of waders so that you can get into water deep enough to safely tail the salmon in such a way that it's not bashing off of rocks or filling it's gills with sand.
As an additional FYI, if you're thinking of breaking a fish off rather than landing it, you're better off pointing your rod directly at the fish and clamping down on your reel than leaning back to break your leader. Leaning back could also potentially break your rod, whereas pointing your rod at the fish puts all the stress on the line and won't damage your rod at all.
Cheers!
:D
Tex
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Ya thats what I was doing, I know enough to straight line them if I want to break them off :)
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hey, Tex..
On Sunday, after the river clean-up, I was fishing with milo and banny and had a guy with gear land a chum and a large spring by dragging it onto shore, then seeing if it's worth keeping, before deciding to let it go. The spring seemed to take forever to revive, but he did make it. Shouldn't they be deciding before they drag it to their car if they are keeping or not? I know some people can tell what kind of species they have on before seeing the fish by how the fish is fighting (or lack of a fight). I liked banny's approach of using lighter leader so when you know you have a fish on your fly-rod that is too big for you to land properly, you just lean back and snap it off...on purpose (I've used that excuse before, but it's usually when i've done a long distance realease).
Milo, I thought the idea of turning a fish over to settle it down was just for trout? Am I wrong on that?
Bryan
yeah they might revive but will they survive before spawning ? hard question ! thats the only reason i always let people to take my spot and i go away to other spot
dont wanna watch those kind of acts
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The best solution is to have COs over there taking pictures and giving fines for obvious violations. If the situation is that bad, it should be a good source of revenue for DFO and all the people who tend to keep a snagged fish will soon learn to stay off that place to save their $$$, right? ;D But like Rod says, stay away from stereotyping people for things unrelated to the regulation. My friend who is a top rod in my mind always carry coffee pot to enjoy his relax way of fishing. So he is in trouble too? ???
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I think the coffee grinder term if refering to the type of reel not actual coffee pots
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I really like my coffee grinders. I only have 10 of them.
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Sorry, banny, didn't mean to make it look like you didn't know what you were doing when breaking a fish off. I have never done it on purpose and a(ss)u(me)d that the way i described it was the way you do it.
Don't hate me, please, just remember the dive into the vedder I did to help you with that chum...my jacket still isn't 100% dry. Good thing you didn't have your camera out. ::)
thanks for the input, guys.
Bryan
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People wonder why the " limits hole " has been closed. Perfect example of what is happening upriver.
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Ghost Fish
You are correct about the techniques used to catch these fish. The problem is that we as responsible anglers are now the minority and have been totally overrun by unethical anglers.
Some are just inexperienced but there are a lot of anglers who know the score and are working the system so to speak.
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The location is the problem in most cases, just as much as the fishign practices! These people are targetting narrow, HOLDING HOLES, that the fish have no choice but to travel through. It is a fish trap and something should be done about it. Good thing with all those holes the river will change big time with the fall blowout.
Buck....
I have also noticed recently that even some of the best float fishers are even resorting to snagging. I can never figure out why because they always seem to get fish the right way, but I guess they get more the wrong way ??? I always get the feeling that as soon as I beak someone they will throw on a float and outfish me anyways ::) In most cases I just walk away to a spot where I am by myself, even if it means walking a long ways.
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Lol deep, narrow holding water that also gets pounded by you and a few other guys quite often ;D At least we give the fish a chance... Unlike those guys I saw in there one night :'( Havn't seen too many guys snagging there this year though, just a few :-\
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Hi there guys
I would like to introduce myself as a total first timer on the vedder / chilliwack river system. last year after chasing the Atlantic Salmon all around Ireland, Scotland and the whole of England ( dont forget that Wales is a principality) I and two of my friends came to BC for five days fishing on the Harrison /Fraser system.
The Sunday we arrived was a learning curve. We as tourists watched the removal of large fish in quantity!!!!
from a row of boulders and taken to camper vans ( limit hole ?)
Do you realize what you have.
Pristine Fishing fabulous rivers and and a hatchery that is keeping the stocks of your fish at a level that we can only dream about and people who care! for the environment!!!!
I see posts about snagging beaching on stones etc.
what about the nets which i watched being pulled around by power boats and then pulled by pickup???
10 fish snagged 1000 netted??? on the Fraser? for cat food?
Please guys don't loose sight of what you have.
you all have the river at heart which is why I will fly 13 hours (even after zoom went bust)
to join you.
even if the Atlantic Salmon is so endangered we still fish with barbed hooks,
after visiting the hatchery I think a few wedder fishermen do!!
Coffee Grinders? don't have a clutch on a fly reel???
Mike
and i hope you realize what you have
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but, don`t u guys agree this, 80% of fish been caught on vedder is~~~~~~> by `flossing`
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I hope not 80% that would be a lot and i am happy to say on Monday i was out after work saw these guys who i have seen a few times before running long leaders 8 feet or so floats on but the distance from float to weight was about 15 feet after watching them for about an hour and they were snagging fish like crazy but they couldn't get one in the mouth so they kept throwing them back and i really mean throwing them back but anyways they finally gave and went to leave so i moved into there spot made a cast found bottom dropped my float about 2 feet so i knew that i would not touch bottom again made two more cast on the second cast float went down knowing it wasn't bottom i set the hook the fight was on and i was rewarded with a nice clean 20 pounder i was happy to move in on those guys as they left and catch one fairly
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20 pounder!!! Nice Fish. Maybe I will check out the spot. I heard they hired some more DFO officers. More fines will hurt in the long run....and maybe keep the car thiefs away from breaking into the vehicles. cohoking
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Never thought about the fact that more co's could keep the cars safe as well that would be nice my truck has not been hit yet fingers crossed but i hvae heard stories and seen the broken glass
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I am a visiting angler from Wales (so don't pay too much attention to this post), I will be visiting the Chilliwack area once again for a couple of week’s fishing holiday from next weekend. I really don’t believe that you boys realise how lucky you really are over here, you have fishing to die for. My primary fishing back in Wales is for Atlantic salmon and sewin (seatrout), the fishing is good however it is nothing compared to what you have over here, hence the reason I and a few of my friends pay all that money to come over here.
The first time I visited Chilliwack I was somewhat surprised to say the least to see what I would describe as combat fishing, I had never ever before in my life witnessed so many anglers fishing in such close proximity, this was totally alien to me.
During my last visit to Chilliwack and on the days that we fished the Vedder we fly fished and purposefully evaded the more popular areas for the less attractive areas. We fished sections of the river that no one else cared for however we did extremely well catching many salmon, we had a fantastic time.
During our last visit we did witness many foul hooking of fish, some of which were tapped on the head. We said nothing at the time as we were visiting anglers and did not wish to antagonise people.
My only wish is that you really realise how fortunate you are over here and do all that you can to protect it for the future.
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While out and about last sunday doing some fishing and giving a bit of a hand cleaning up the river to do my part i decided to stop by the cable run (just down from main vedder crossing bridge) and see if i could score some chum/spring roe for my future coho trips.
I was there for aprox 30 minutes and was horrified to watch 3 fishermen foul hook there fish, which clearly jumped out of the water with the line and wool clad hook attached to the belly/tail of the fish right in front of me (i was standing on the concrete right by the ladder. THey proceded to walk the fish down the rapids a bit away from the crowd of hulliagans/beaks and retained the foul hooked fish. This pisses me off. I asked one of the "fishermen" who commited the crime why he kept the foul hooked fish and he responded with "The line was wrapped around the fish" as he walked by me and of course could not look me in the eye.
I then witnessed the same exact thing twice within a 20 minute period after this.
Not impressed at all.
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It makes me sick hearing about idiots flossing,i refuse to fish sockeye on the fraser because of flossers now the vedder.wow.
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While out and about last sunday doing some fishing and giving a bit of a hand cleaning up the river to do my part i decided to stop by the cable run (just down from main vedder crossing bridge) and see if i could score some chum/spring roe for my future coho trips.
I was there for aprox 30 minutes and was horrified to watch 3 fishermen foul hook there fish, which clearly jumped out of the water with the line and wool clad hook attached to the belly/tail of the fish right in front of me (i was standing on the concrete right by the ladder. THey proceded to walk the fish down the rapids a bit away from the crowd of hulliagans/beaks and retained the foul hooked fish. This pisses me off. I asked one of the "fishermen" who commited the crime why he kept the foul hooked fish and he responded with "The line was wrapped around the fish" as he walked by me and of course could not look me in the eye.
I then witnessed the same exact thing twice within a 20 minute period after this.
Not impressed at all.
I hope that you phoned the RAPP line. If I was you I would of phoned him and the others in. You would of gotten a good description when he walked right by you. We can all come on here and complaine about what we see on the river but if we do not call it in then the CO's just assume everything is fine. These calls also help them in finding the areas that have become a problem with this kind of activity. So next time you see an infraction in the regs call it in.
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I'm with you there... we all have a responsibility to at least report a violation if we see one. I know I want my kids, grandkids and great grandkids fishing in this region. The CO's and DFO have their hands full as it is, so let's help them when we can within reason.
It's one thing for someone to learn and be educated. But when you hear 'the line was wrapped around' and the guy won't look you in the eye, let him tell it to the officer and have him decide.
It's a shame people like that guy forget this is 'sport' fishing... if we take the goalie away in hockey or soccer is scoring a goal any fun? Intentional snagging/flossing, in my opinion is about the same thing.
Just my 2 cents.
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jeff, were you fishing with roe or blade?
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i know buddy but,,,,got nothing to do with those people.....it`s totally not againt law....just do what we do......
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spring killa i was fishing a little piece of pink and white made into a little perfect ball
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Short floating yarn thru the right slot gets you fish all day if they are moving thru. I have fished the Vedder for years and it has always amazed me how people fish such long leaders. If you watch them you also see how many casts they make before they snag a fish. I bet short floating a good slot will out fish the ten foot leader that is cast and ripped every time.