Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Morty on July 31, 2008, 06:13:56 PM
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Up to last Sunday, First Nations have reported a harvest of 118,858 sockeye. That's just for that week!
Total reported for this year is 130,225.
ttp://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/SockeyeKeptCatch.html
To put that in perspective: if there were a whopping 2,000 Rec fishers out every day, and they were each blessed enough to get their 2 fish limit, that would take 32 days to accomplish a balanced harvest. Not only would that be providing a lot of food for many households tables. Using Vic Carrao's recent figure of $1,000,000 per day going into the Valley economy when Rec fishing is "open" that would be $32,000,000.00 in economic value.
I figure that after a while those 2,000 guys freezers would start gettin a little full and they'd proably cut back on the fishing
(or work would call, or the Honey Do's would start piling too high...)
In all fairness though; I do give DFO high marks for being so proactive this year in responding to surpluses and shortages. They're not sticking to the tired old every Friday announcement schedule. Although this is really tough for the professional guides right now, I believe the path we're on will lead to more frequent opportunities.
I'm all for 10 Sockeye on my license, same a Chinooks - ( especially if the 10 sockeye applies to ALL river fishers! )
Tight lines guys and gals,
Mod: two topics are merged into one due to similarity. Thread title changed.
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I think everyone should feel the pain equally. They should achieve their escapement goals by reducing everyone's allowed take. Not keep one user's take the same and cut everyone else down to zero.
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In stead of selling fish under the table, when they claim members are starving, the FN could take up guiding. Be a little more above board.
Sockeye sports fishery closure angers guides
Larry Pynn
Vancouver Sun
Thursday, July 31, 2008
b.c. I The federal Fisheries Department closed the Fraser River to sport fishing of sockeye salmon Wednesday -- just five days after the fishery opened -- because of low estimated returns.
One fishing guide says the on-again off-again situation has caused disruption in the Fraser Valley as the sport fishing community buys fishing tackle and gear, only to be shut out of the fishery.
Vic Carrao, the owner of STS Guiding Service of Mission, said in an interview he had strong client bookings for guided fishing trips this week and next, all of which now must be cancelled.
"They pulled the rug out from under us," Carrao said, estimating the sockeye sport fishery generates up to $1 million a day in spending by anglers.
"It's irresponsible."
Carrao suspects Ottawa ordered the closure in response to pressure from aboriginals. "It's politics. That's the way it works."
Sto:lo Grand Chief Clarence Pennier said he wrote to the department to protest continued sport fishing in light of a drop of 700,000 fish in the mid-summer sockeye forecast.
Aboriginal fishing, which takes priority next to conservation, has been continuing in the river. Commercial fishing is now closed, but did open last weekend.
Ed George, tidal fishing committee chair for the B.C. Wildlife Federation, said he has no problem with the closure if stock estimates are lower than expected.
"I'm okay with it," he said. "They've got to manage the fishery."
The fisheries department opened the sport fishery Saturday (with a limit of two sockeye per person per day), but closed it effective Wednesday at 9 p.m., after 48 hours' notice, after the low estimates, said department spokeswoman Lara Sloan.
Meanwhile, George said 30 to 35 sport anglers will work with federal fisheries officials next month on an experimental program to determine the survival rate of sockeye released back to the river after being caught while other species are being fished.
George said he believes the mortality is one or two per cent, while Ottawa thinks it is closer to 10 per cent
lpynn@vancouversun.com
© The Vancouver Sun 2008
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How about a study of the mortality rate of gill-net survivors, like fish with net marks. They should shut down FN fishing with modern killing machines and let them go back to tradition, as they claim their FN rights. They took 130,000+ plus fish and complain us sporties for one week-end of fishing (yes, many people skunked on their only week-end trip for sockeye). Go figure what is wrong with this race-based fishing crap. I hope the government will stand up to this FN blackmail after the 2010 Olympics and make fishing available to all tax-paying Canadians. >:(
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Up to last Sunday, First Nations have reported a harvest of 118,858 sockeye. That's just for that week!
Total reported for this year is 130,225.
I have one thing to say....
Discusting.
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DFO has got to be fair to the sport fishsing community. We are the ones buying licenses and paying taxes and look how we are treated - no respect and totally unfair.
The Albion daily test fishery count for Chinook is quite high now (30+ fish per 2 sets) comparable to any so called 'good year', and yet DFO is still dragging its feet to give the sporties a break. Why wait till a designate time when the test count numbers are high now. We paid for the license and DFO should be fair to the 'customers' who bought the licenses on good faith that they be given a fair chance to fish.
Just look at the sockeye situation. DFO stop us after only one week-end of fishing (for us town folks anyways) while allowing more FN fishing after they already took 130,000+ sockeyes. I mean if concervation is that much a concern that cause them to open & shut the fishery in such a hurry, why allow FN to continue to fish with their massive killing machines. How many fish they will take in one day compared to us poor guys fishing with our 'tradition' method of one rod and one barbless hook? How long we Canadians should tolerate such farce in this kind of race-based fishing crap from a just and free society? >:( >:( I can accept FN's claim of tradition and be given chance to fish for their food and ceremony, but why not have the gut to tell this group that their forefathers' tradtion of fishing was not using the modern massive killing machines like drift nets which to me accounts for the annihilation of the Fraser fish stock.
Is DFO going to ignore these high test counts and continue to treat us sporties as dummies? If they do, they are the real dummies and they cannot complain why their license sales are dropping year after year. No customers will come back after they feel screwed by any business, so why should DFO expect any difference from the sport fishing community at large?
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It's frustrating to see the Indians fishing when commercial and sportfishermen can't. The courts have ruled that the Indians have the "constitutional right" to fish.
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Got a phone call today from a friend "better come buy some sockeye, because where not getting that many....." :P 100,000/ week.... ::)
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This is what the Sportfishing Defense Alliance has been working to correct for years. They welcome donations as having a lawyer is not cheap, check out their web site for more details.
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The DFO is responsible for much of the reduced salmon returns in the past decade.
They used no science to examine the impact of sea lice at fish farms on the coast despite what happened in Scotland and Norway; and when diminishing wild stock returns were reported and data showing massive lice exposure in areas populated with fish farms; the DFO reacted with bullying the people who were calling the alarm. The DFO reacted the same way tobacco companies did in the 60s when it was shown cancer and smokes were linked; and they (the DFO and BC gov't) are still dragging their heels in not shutting down all fish farms or moving them onland.
The DFO are the single biggest problem in reduced returns of wild salmon; they are as dangerous as a bad cop.
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Just so you know, drift nets and set nets are traditional methods of fishing . Same as fishing with a rod and barbed hook! All traditional!
I agree with you Dennis, the single biggest problem our fish stocks have right now is the govt's blind eye to the effects of fish farms. They are killing our salmon stocks!
Hotrod
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Just so you know, drift nets and set nets are traditional methods of fishing . Same as fishing with a rod and barbed hook! All traditional!
I agree with you Dennis, the single biggest problem our fish stocks have right now is the govt's blind eye to the effects of fish farms. They are killing our salmon stocks!
Hotrod
My great grand parents could walk down the street with a gun on their hip....
Why can't I do that...
Times change
Unless you are FN
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Just so you know, drift nets and set nets are traditional methods of fishing . Same as fishing with a rod and barbed hook! All traditional!
I agree with you Dennis, the single biggest problem our fish stocks have right now is the govt's blind eye to the effects of fish farms. They are killing our salmon stocks!
Ya but not aluminum boat, nylon nets and 50+hp engine. Oh and not to mention they use to eat fish now they sell it.
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One day someone will post some new innovative insight into the situation but I'm not holding my breath.
Salmon numbers in the Fraser will continue to drop and people will drift into other recreational activities-that is the future. :'(
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Chief Clarence Pennier and Ernie Crey should meet with each other so they can get their stories straight. Pennier said, remaining sockeye are needed to meet food, social, and ceremonial needs
of 94 First Nations in the Fraser River watershed. Ernie Crey on the other hand said an allocation of 8000 fish for sales, plus the possibility of moving more from the 300,000 allocated for food fisheries into sales. So, is it sockeye to feed First Nation bands or fish for commercial sales?
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I wonder why it closed before the long weekend for us? oh i know, the indians are fishing all weekend... they dont want to share the water with us. Honestly, how many fish do they actually need? anyone know how many band members are actually along the river?
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The mortality study may become a useful managment tool for situations like this one where FN put pressure on government to close the river due to a possible shortage in their TAC. Past court cases have been won by government where FN has tried to close rec sport fisheries in the marine waters when their TAC was not reached. Mortaility studies showed that sport caught fish in marine waters was less than 3% therefore closing the sport rec fishery would have little or not impact on their TAC ( total allowable catch) and therefore can remain open even when their TAC is not reached.
So if we can get 35 people a day onto Grassy Bar for this study it maybe the tool that government needs to help them manage the rec sockeye fishery on a more stable basis and not having to cave into FN pressure everytime the test fishery drops a few thousand.
If the mortality study shows greater than 3%, than tighter managment will be required when stocks of concern are in the river.
I will be donating rides to Grassy on as many days as I can, Island 22 at 8am August 5-10, help us out if you can, it would be much appreciated by everyone involved.
Vic Carrao
STS
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Just so you know, drift nets and set nets are traditional methods of fishing . Same as fishing with a rod and barbed hook! All traditional!
I agree with you Dennis, the single biggest problem our fish stocks have right now is the govt's blind eye to the effects of fish farms. They are killing our salmon stocks!
Hotrod
LOL traditional? dip nets are traditional... power boats and long nets sweeping the river is hardly traditional.
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It's frustrating to see the Indians fishing when commercial and sportfishermen can't. The courts have ruled that the Indians have the "constitutional right" to fish.
Hey, I didn't know that. I thought only First Nations had the constitutional right to fish.
Those Indians you saw, were they Hindu, Muslims or Sikh? ???
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The courts have ruled that the Indians have the "constitutional right" to fish.
That could be fixed if we had some politicians with guts, very easily. The notwithstanding clause.
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The courts have ruled that the Indians have the "constitutional right" to fish.
That could be fixed if we had some politicians with guts, very easily. The notwithstanding clause.
True
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I will be donating rides to Grassy on as many days as I can, Island 22 at 8am August 5-10, help us out if you can, it would be much appreciated by everyone involved.
Thank you for putting your money where your mouth is, Vic! Class act!
I will do my best to be there on at least a couple of days.
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The natives have a constitutional right to fish for food and ceremonial purposes. Period.
They are not required to use "traditional" methods. I believe this is primarily because these methods have been continually improving. It's like saying you are allowed to use the road, but only if you use oxen.
Changes to the constitution cannot be done easily, and complaining about it here will not help.
If you want to change the world lobby your MP.
Natives are not allowed to sell their catches of food and ceremonial fish.
If we were able to enforce the laws associated with this activity then I believe we wouldn't be talking about it.
You can help by not buying salmon out of the back of a truck. It may be cheaper to buy, but the cost to the ecosystem is immense.
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Just so you know, drift nets and set nets are traditional methods of fishing . Same as fishing with a rod and barbed hook! All traditional!
I agree with you Dennis, the single biggest problem our fish stocks have right now is the govt's blind eye to the effects of fish farms. They are killing our salmon stocks!
Hotrod
LOL traditional? dip nets are traditional... power boats and long nets sweeping the river is hardly traditional.
You know your ignorance never surprises me. Are you an expert on native tarditional fishing methods? You should be with all the info I have provided to you on several forums on this topic. And yet you seem to say the same thing over and over again! I wonder why? :'(
Hotrod
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If you want FN to stop selling them, suck it up and don't buy it from them. It might suck having to have steak instead of sockeye for a couple seasons, but the message will get across.
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2008 In-season Fraser River sockeye salmon status from Fraser River Panel (up to August 2nd):
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/fishy_news/file/080801.pdf
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DFO's arrogance and disrespect to the sporties is something to behold if they allow FN to put 300,000 sockeyes for sales. I mean, why not kneel and bow to their 'masters' and say 'okay, whatever you want, masters'. On the other hand we are the slaves who can't do a thing when DFO tells us to get out of the water right before the long weekend, and them not removing the size restriction even when the Albion Test Fishery show quite a high Chinook count. They do anything to appease the natives, and yet show the utmost contempt to the sport fishing community. I have told all my greenie fishing friends to not bother with starting a salmon fishing hobby and get ripped off by DFO who will do anything but to provide fair fishing opportunity to the license paying fishermen. They may as well ask FN to donate some fish sales revenue to their budget for the short fall from license sales. >:(
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Just so you know, drift nets and set nets are traditional methods of fishing . Same as fishing with a rod and barbed hook! All traditional!
I agree with you Dennis, the single biggest problem our fish stocks have right now is the govt's blind eye to the effects of fish farms. They are killing our salmon stocks!
Hotrod
LOL traditional? dip nets are traditional... power boats and long nets sweeping the river is hardly traditional.
You know your ignorance never surprises me. Are you an expert on native tarditional fishing methods? You should be with all the info I have provided to you on several forums on this topic. And yet you seem to say the same thing over and over again! I wonder why? :'(
Hotrod
perhaps they had some form of drift netting they used hundreds of years ago... but can you honestly say that using power boats and long gill nets drifting down river and sweeping every fish up in its path including sturgeon, is a traditional way? give me a break. drift netting like that is wrong as it takes everything without distinction.. whether white or indian or whatever you are it shouldnt be allowed. If native people want fish then fine.. if they want to sell it they should have to buy a commercial licence like any law abiding canadian.
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WTG steel...if only tax payers fish...that cuts out the first nations all together....I like that idea!!
Also, I can buy fish all day long for $15.00 each. I myself am so d a m n tired of first nations blowing smoke up my a s s I can't see straight!
Oh well.......one more thing....why all the fuss over sockeye?? Those FN folks can have all the chum they want! Last year there was a crap load of pinks...did the FN take those for food? Hell no they can't sell them!
Thank You!
BOB
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How about this, instead of allowing a FN sale of fish, transfer allocation of those fish in the way of a buy out. The government is currently buying Halibut quotes from the commercial sector and giving them to the recreational fishery, why not buy some of FN allocation and give it to the recreational anglers on the Fraser. It's a win win for everyone, FN don't need to go out and net fish after they have met their food and cerimional needs. They stay home and instead of you buying your fish for $10 on the street corner you can go out and spend $100 for each fish by angling for them.
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The size slot limit of chinook salmon will end on August 9th. A notice will be available next week.
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Wednesday and still no notice on removing the size limit?
Is that notice going to be out before Sat (Aug.9) so fishermen can plan their weekend fishing trip? Any confirmation from informed source? ;)
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Wednesday and still no notice on removing the size limit?
Is that notice going to be out before Sat (Aug.9) so fishermen can plan their weekend fishing trip? Any confirmation from informed source? ;)
If you go to the fishing reports on FWR home page, the Fraser Valley, STS link .There saying 1 spring over 64 cm and 3 under as of August 8? ???
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But the last I checked the Fishery Notice site, there has been no update to reflect any change in the slot size restriction on the springs in the Fraser. Only the notice site is official.
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I hope they open up the size limit but with the very low numbers of the late sockeye run I expect the river to close. In Area 12 and 13 they have recorded no fish. Not looking good for the fall adams and others. With the low sockeye numbers they are saying do you expect it to stay open? I called a DFO buddy today and he has heard nothing in regards to Aug 8th extention or closure. What you read right now is that it closes Aug 8th. Firday the Panel meets and that is when we will know.
Rob
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Just curious if DFO will make a decision on the chinook size limit and when that decision will be handed down. Thanks to any and all with info. that may be forthcoming. :) Have A Great Day. 8)
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Fishery Notice
Category(s): RECREATIONAL - Salmon
Subject: FN0567-Salmon: Chinook Management Actions: Area 29 and in Region 2 the Non-tidal waters of the Fraser River
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Additional management measures to reduce harvest impacts on Spring and Summer
Fraser River Chinook stocks currently in effect in Subareas 29-6, 29-7, 29-9 to
29-17 and in Region 2 the non-tidal waters of the Fraser River are scheduled to
end on August 8, 2008.
Effective 00:01 hrs Saturday, August 9, 2008 and until 23:59 hrs Wednesday
December 31, 2008, in Subareas 29-6, 29-7, 29-9 to 29-10, the daily limit for
wild or hatchery marked chinook salmon is two (2) per day with a minimum length
of 62 cm.
Effective 00:01 hrs Saturday, August 9, 2008 and until 23:59 hrs Sunday August
31, 2008, in Subareas 29-11 to 29-17 and in Region 2 the non-tidal waters of
the Fraser River the daily limit for wild or hatchery marked chinook salmon is
four (4) per day with only one (1) over 50 cm.
Landstrom Bar Closure: The area described below remains closed until October
31, 2008.
Those waters of the Fraser River inside a line beginning at a fishing boundary
sign on the eastern end of Landstrom Bar, then to a fishing boundary sign on
the opposite bank, then to a fishing boundary sign on the southern end of Croft
Island, then westerly to a fishing boundary sign on the nearest bank of the
river, then following the river bank to the beginning point.
Notes:
Barbless hooks are required when fishing for salmon in tidal and non-tidal
waters of British Columbia. This includes all species of fish in the Fraser
River.
Anglers are requested to release any hatchery marked sockeye. These fish are
hatchery raised sockeye and part of a recovery program designed to increase the
numbers of Cultus Lake sockeye.
The term "hatchery marked" means a fish that has a healed scar in place of the
adipose fin.
Sport anglers are encouraged to participate in the voluntary Salmon Sport Head
Recovery program by labelling and submitting heads from adipose fin-clipped
Chinook and coho salmon. Recovery of coded-wire tags provides critical
information for coast-wide stock assessment. Contact the Salmon Sport Head
Recovery Program at (866) 483-9994 for further information.
Rockfish Conservation Areas that are currently in effect and are closed to all
fin fishing. Descriptions of these closures, and other recreational fishing
information, can be found on the Internet at:
www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/recfish
Did you witness suspicious fishing activity or a violation? If so, please call
the Fisheries and Ocean Canada 24-hour toll free Observe, Record, Report line
at (800) 465-4336.
For the 24 hour recorded opening and closure line, call toll free at
(866) 431-FISH.
Variation Orders No. 2008-312 and 2008-313
FOR MORE INFORMATION:
Contact the local DFO office in your area for further information.
Fisheries & Oceans Operations Center - FN0567
Sent August 8, 2008 at 0859
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