Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: chris gadsden on March 26, 2008, 06:44:47 PM
-
While at a meeting last night we got a copy of the official regulations for many rivers in Region 2. There is no recreational fishing for chinook in the Fraser River until at least June 16 and that is not a given either.
As far as sockeye it states "no opportunities anticipated"
I also notice in Region three (Thompson - Nicola) there is a notice that says "steelhead fisheries in the 2008/09 season will be closed".
Not sure if that notice has appeared before and in season changes will once again be made.
-
I also notice in Region three (Thompson - Nicola) there is a notice that says "steelhead fisheries in the 2008/09 season will be closed".
Not sure if that notice has appeared before and in season changes will once again be made.
That is always listed in Region 3 (Page 40) of Freshwater Fishing Regulation Booklet with in-season opportunities announced later on (eg. the Thompson River fishery).
-
Hey... as long as the natives get to net illegally again it's really not that different from last year's regs except for that month and a half where you can't fish for springs. And during the last month of that closure the springs can't see squat anyway because of the freshet causing high dirty water.
-
Thanks for the info Chris. Sad to see our salmon stocks have fallen to this degree.
-
Thanks for the info Chris. Sad to see our salmon stocks have fallen to this degree.
"Spawning escapements of early timed Fraser River chinook have declined precipitously in recent years. Recent management actions have not been successful at reversing the declining abundance of early timed Fraser chinook. Additional measures during the March to June time period will be implemented in portions of Area 19 and 20 and in the Fraser River."
-
Hey... as long as the natives get to net illegally again it's really not that different from last year's regs except for that month and a half where you can't fish for springs. And during the last month of that closure the springs can't see squat anyway because of the freshet causing high dirty water.
I believe you will see enforcement stepped up here as well, as many including FOC are very concerned about these stocks.
-
Hey... as long as the natives get to net illegally again it's really not that different from last year's regs except for that month and a half where you can't fish for springs. And during the last month of that closure the springs can't see squat anyway because of the freshet causing high dirty water.
The commercial guys have been shut down in areas that can target Chinook; the Vanc. Island recreational fishing has a size limit that will avoid both early timed Fraser fish and lower Georgia Strait Chinook; the Fraser is closed till the middle of June; and the time alloted for First Nations food fishery is cut in half from last year with a start date a month later than last year. Unlike last year, First Nations have not been getting permits for ceremonial fishing (weddings, naming ceremonies, first fish ceremonies etc.) with the only exception for funerals and those permits have gear/time/quantity limits. Therefore there is a difference from last year, which hopefully will result in a few more fish 4 years from now.
-
Time to buy stocks in belly boats and pontoon boats for lake fishing
-
Or target pikeminnows and carp :'(
-
Fish dont really start getting caught until late June anyways.
-
The writing is all over the wall.
No sockeye opening again.
Delay in Spring fishing.
Poor Pink Salmon return last year.
Gravel removal at Spring Bar damaging spawning grounds..
Possibly a $60.00 tag for sturgeon fishing.
The June 16 opening date is only a tentative date, feels like a head game to me.
If Springs don't start getting caught until late June, why not open as usual and close during the peak time for the first couple of weeks.. Makes no sense to me unless there are different runs earlier..
-
If Springs don't start getting caught until late June, why not open as usual and close during the peak time for the first couple of weeks.. Makes no sense to me unless there are different runs earlier..
This keeps the flossers out of the river during freshet. Still nothing in writing about leader restrictions or fixed weights, and guys can't get the hints and self regulate themselves on the river.
Close it for a year or two and once it re opens there may be a new respect for what we have.
-
If Springs don't start getting caught until late June, why not open as usual and close during the peak time for the first couple of weeks.. Makes no sense to me unless there are different runs earlier..
This keeps the flossers out of the river during freshet. Still nothing in writing about leader restrictions or fixed weights, and guys can't get the hints and self regulate themselves on the river.
Close it for a year or two and once it re opens there may be a new respect for what we have.
And what about those that make their living guiding?? Easy to just say "close it down" but it's implications(including present and future tourism dollars spent fishing this area) would be IMO huge.
-
considering all the mismanagement issues that seem to happen, and pot shots between user groups,at least this move has a positive impact for the fish. we must stop worrying about our needs, and focus on the needs of our resouce!
-
And what about those that make their living guiding?? Easy to just say "close it down" but it's implications(including present and future tourism dollars spent fishing this area) would be IMO huge.
Why should we as sport fishermen care about those who make money on the backs of fish who/what is more important someone's job or fish in the river?
Some guides are active members of conservations groups many are not.
What did those people do before they decided to guide, it's a buoyant economy with jobs aplenty and tourism has never been bigger.
-
It is time to show our respect to the nature.
-
If Springs don't start getting caught until late June, why not open as usual and close during the peak time for the first couple of weeks.. Makes no sense to me unless there are different runs earlier..
This keeps the flossers out of the river during freshet. Still nothing in writing about leader restrictions or fixed weights, and guys can't get the hints and self regulate themselves on the river.
Close it for a year or two and once it re opens there may be a new respect for what we have.
And what about those that make their living guiding?? Easy to just say "close it down" but it's implications(including present and future tourism dollars spent fishing this area) would be IMO huge.
You need to look at the big picture,10 - 20 years from today.
-
A resource without dollar value would not be taken seriously. The guiding business lets more people know about our fish resource problems to people around the world, and not just local community. If what you say about the guides hold true, all humans should be exterminated. Do you know how much pollution a hybrid car, mini-cooper... generates in it's production phase? Nylon (by the way that's the main component your fishing line's made from), vaseline and many daily material is made from not so green material.
With growing population the only way to ensure fish resource is through construction of more spawning channels, and hatcheries. You can close all the river for fishing for all you might. 10, 20 years from now it'll still be the same. If another abnormal weather happens again, 20, 30 years down the road the only fish available would be farmed fish.
-
It's a shame on the closure till mid June.
I used to do alot of fishing in early May for the red Springs throwing spoons and spinners at the river and creek mouths.
But if the stocks need protecting for the future,better start sooner than later.
There are other species to fish for anyways.
Rando
-
It is a small sacrifice for a possible long term gain, as Jimmy has stated. The gain can only happen if every interest group stops pointing fingers and starts developing solutions.
The problem for guiding companies with closures like this one is not so much the closure itself, but the publicity it generates. Fishermen have a tendency to exaggerate as we already know. ;) With the aid of media, we are already painting "the end of the world" picture before salmon have even arrived. These are pre-season forecasts and precautions. While most likely we will indeed see low returns of early season Fraser River chinook salmon, it does not mean the remainder of the salmon season is a write-off. Guides and lodges do most of their advertising overseas, so the message "no salmon fishing before mid June" can often be mistranslated to "no fishing at all" by the time it travels 5,000 miles. Successful guiding companies in the valley actually do not market their product with salmon. The primary target species are white sturgeon, trout and char. Western Europeans who come here to fish have no desire to either be standing shoulder to shoulder for a few salmon, or sitting all day for the bar rod to go off. They want to get big white sturgeon, fall salmon, experience the river flyfishing with results that they never get back home for the same amount of dollars they spend. Good salmon fishing is often just icing on the cake for those whose trips here just happen to coincide with a good push of chinook salmon in the summer.
For those who live in the Lower Mainland and Fraser Valley, a six week delay in chinook salmon fishing should not discourage you. The mainstem Fraser River will be experiencing freshet, fishing is generally poor in the first place. May and June are two fantastic months for interior lake rainbow trout fishing with fish in the 16 to 24 inch range. Locally, bull trout fishing is at its peak in the Lower Fraser tributaries. There is also white sturgeon fishing. Urban trout lakes will be regularly stocked for families. In the saltwater scene, salmon and groundfish fishing is available, as well as crabbing. If one truly wants to fish for salmon during this time, the Capilano River offers coho salmon fishing during this period. The only true opportunity lost is perhaps the creek mouth fishery for chinook salmon, but again it is a small sacrifice for a possible long term gain.
-
I just hate the way people put those hard working people down. So people is quick with their finger pointing, but have they looked at themselves?
With the withering fish stock, everyone is responsible. So many unfavorable conditions for the salmons or just any fish, it'll take miracle for the fish stock to grow even if there's no harvest. Devastation of rearing/spawning habitat, abnormal weather pattern causing flooding/low marine survival rate, disease, infestation... the future looks bad.
-
If Springs don't start getting caught until late June, why not open as usual and close during the peak time for the first couple of weeks.. Makes no sense to me unless there are different runs earlier..
This keeps the flossers out of the river during freshet. Still nothing in writing about leader restrictions or fixed weights, and guys can't get the hints and self regulate themselves on the river.
Close it for a year or two and once it re opens there may be a new respect for what we have.
And what about those that make their living guiding?? Easy to just say "close it down" but it's implications(including present and future tourism dollars spent fishing this area) would be IMO huge.
Well we could close it down now and maybe help the salmon stocks out so those people only lose their jobs for 3 or 4 years (and could get another one really easily right now) while we try to help the survival rates of salmon or....
We could do nothing about it and continue to let those slamon stocks deplete to the point where we won't be able to fish for a long time causing those people to lose their jobs for alot longer, also in a few years since the economy is booming now it may be harder to find jobs because I can't see this eco boom going much past 2010...
Just my opinion on this..
-
Not to get everyones hopes up but I heard today from a fairly good contact we may now have an opening starting on June 16 on the Fraser for chinooks.
-
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/xnet/content/fns/index.cfm?pg=view_notice&lang=en&DOC_ID=108418&ID=recreational
-
Unlike last year, First Nations have not been getting permits for ceremonial fishing (weddings, naming ceremonies, first fish ceremonies etc.) with the only exception for funerals and those permits have gear/time/quantity limits. Therefore there is a difference from last year, which hopefully will result in a few more fish 4 years from now.
Does it really matter if FN has permits to fish, I would say no, there was a boat drifting the lower Vedder last week and DFO said they were not aware of any permits issued. And this is for the prized steelhead that all are suppose to care about... kind of a joke..
FN can do what they want, wait and see. Wait untill they get approved ( like it really matters ) to harvest sturgeon.
-
Unlike last year, First Nations have not been getting permits for ceremonial fishing (weddings, naming ceremonies, first fish ceremonies etc.) with the only exception for funerals and those permits have gear/time/quantity limits. Therefore there is a difference from last year, which hopefully will result in a few more fish 4 years from now.
Does it really matter if FN has permits to fish, I would say no, there was a boat drifting the lower Vedder last week and DFO said they were not aware of any permits issued. And this is for the prized steelhead that all are suppose to care about... kind of a joke..
FN can do what they want, wait and see. Wait untill they get approved ( like it really matters ) to harvest sturgeon.
You really dont care much for FN do you ? How are you so sure 'white' people or other ethnic groups arent poaching fish or harvesting illegaly/unethically ?
-
Unlike last year, First Nations have not been getting permits for ceremonial fishing (weddings, naming ceremonies, first fish ceremonies etc.) with the only exception for funerals and those permits have gear/time/quantity limits. Therefore there is a difference from last year, which hopefully will result in a few more fish 4 years from now.
Does it really matter if FN has permits to fish, I would say no, there was a boat drifting the lower Vedder last week and DFO said they were not aware of any permits issued. And this is for the prized steelhead that all are suppose to care about... kind of a joke..
FN can do what they want, wait and see. Wait untill they get approved ( like it really matters ) to harvest sturgeon.
You really dont care much for FN do you ? How are you so sure 'white' people or other ethnic groups arent poaching fish or harvesting illegaly/unethically ?
We arn't sure, but the natives seem to make it apparent that they dont care about what the rules are and do it in front of every one.... other ethnic groups try to do it in secret :-\
-
Further to FN 131 effective 00:01 hours Tuesday, April 1 until 23:59 hours
Friday, May 30 in Subareas 29-6, 29-7, 29-9, 29-10 and in Region 2 the non-
tidal waters of the Fraser River the daily limit is zero (0) chinook salmon.
If trying to protect early stocks maybe a change in the wording may be in order, something like no angling for salmon during certain periods. The way it is written can be taken as a catch and release situation. :-\
-
Maybe said a littl too much,but at least and any other race gets caught doing something illegal as far as fishing goes there are consequences. And I never meant to imply that others don't harvest illegally.
-
You really dont care much for FN do you ? How are you so sure 'white' people or other ethnic groups arent poaching fish or harvesting illegaly/unethically ?
Other ethnic groups do it as well including white folks but a certain band in the valley is so blatant about it though, yet whenever that fact not opinion but fact is mentioned anywhere the one mentioning it 'hates natives' or is called a racist...people need to grow up and from what i see on many forums no wonder the fish stocks are in the mess they are in. It does not help DFO usually does nothing about it anyway and if they do the courts rarely do.
In a few more years as the river warms up and th ocean continues to warm up, the pollution, fish farms we won't have to worry about this issue anymore....we will just be sculpin fishing on the Fraser as that is all that will be left..
-
Maybe said a littl too much,but at least and any other race gets caught doing something illegal as far as fishing goes there are consequences. And I never meant to imply that others don't harvest illegally.
Yeah the reply was a bit snappy :-\ Trying to quit the darts ;D
Sometimes FN get blamed too often and people assume stuff and you know what assuming does..... ;)
Cheers
-
Further to FN 131 effective 00:01 hours Tuesday, April 1 until 23:59 hours
Friday, May 30 in Subareas 29-6, 29-7, 29-9, 29-10 and in Region 2 the non-
tidal waters of the Fraser River the daily limit is zero (0) chinook salmon.
If trying to protect early stocks maybe a change in the wording may be in order, something like no angling for salmon during certain periods. The way it is written can be taken as a catch and release situation. :-\
This was clarified in an email to me today:
"The regulation, effective May 1, is Chinook (0) daily limit - this does allow for fishing but non-retention or in other words a catch and release fishery. One of the comments is to ask DFO to clarify the regulations as it seems to allows for catch & release - that is the intention."
-
On a side note those of you who may want to understand how a fisheries resource can be saved I reccommend Striper Wars By Dick Russell.
-
Salmon forecast dismal
April 17, 2008
Sockeye salmon on their way back to the Fraser River are expected to arrive in very low numbers this summer.
The current estimate is for 2.9 million Fraser sockeye to return, according to Pacific Salmon Commission chief biologist Mike Lapointe.
That’s a far cry from the good years when 10 to 20 million sockeye came back and it may lead managers to ban all commercial and recreational sockeye fishing this season.
“It’s going to be pretty slim pickings,” Lapointe said, adding a single very limited opening is likely the best the commercial fleet can expect – if anything at all.
A bad fishery this year is no surprise.
Sockeye run on a four-year cycle and this is the low year of the cycle. In the past that would have meant a lower return on the order of four to five million fish.
But in addition, the salmon now returning are the product of the disastrous 2004 season when the disappearance of 1.3 million sockeye sparked a firestorm of controversy and finger-pointing.
Barely 500,000 fish made it back to their birth streams that year, a dangerously low level to spawn and maintain stocks.
“We’re not expecting much,” Lapointe said.
If enough salmon do come back now to help rebuild the run, he said, it will demonstrate their resiliency.
Last year 6.4 million Fraser sockeye were expected but barely a third that number showed up.
Sockeye runs over the past two years are thought to have been hammered by hot ocean temperatures that left them underfed and vulnerable to predators.
So far biologists say this year’s sockeye run likely faced more moderate ocean temperatures.
High river temperatures are also deadly to salmon and are thought to be a major cause of 2004’s missing salmon, along with overfishing, poaching and poor estimates.
-
Do not assume that there will NOT be a Chinook opening on June 15th.
In fact there is no reason to not have an opening.
-
Do not assume that there will NOT be a Chinook opening on June 15th.
In fact there is no reason to not have an opening.
I hope you are right, I remember catching them in the Fraser in April. Actually it was in 1979, on April 30.
-
Just to clarify a bit further, the Fraser opens for salmon fishing May 1, no retention of Chinook until June 16 unless otherwise posted. At the SFAC UFV sub committee meeting last week DFO implied that the river will open for retention on June 16.
The committee which is dealing with issues such as angling ethics has also recommended the following amendment for the upcoming salmon season on the Fraser. -
This sub-committee recommends that the SFAC-UFV endorse the following recommendation:
That DFO, in line with A Policy for Selective Fishing in Canada's Pacific Fisheries (Fisheries and Oceans Canada, January 2001) develop a regulation limiting leader length to 1 metre from the weight; that would be put in force when there are sockeye stocks of concern present in the Fraser River non-tidal areas between the upstream side of the CPR bridge at Mission to Sawmill Creek in order to allow anglers to continue to fish for other species while minimizing impacts on sockeye.
The past week we have seen several FN openings on the Fraser which have been farily successful. Hopefully predicted numbers are off, which would surprise nobody. Good news is that the river is usually not fishable before mid June anyways and some of the best Chinook fishing on the Fraser is Between June 15 to Aug. So in reality this non-retention between May 1 - June 15 doesn't really effect sportfishing on the Fraser. I sometimes wonder what the motive is for posts such as this.
Chris, ever considered posting some positive news about the Fraser?
-
That DFO, in line with A Policy for Selective Fishing in Canada's Pacific Fisheries (Fisheries and Oceans Canada, January 2001) develop a regulation limiting leader length to 1 metre from the weight; that would be put in force when there are sockeye stocks of concern present in the Fraser River non-tidal areas between the upstream side of the CPR bridge at Mission to Sawmill Creek in order to allow anglers to continue to fish for other species while minimizing impacts on sockeye.
The past week we have seen several FN openings on the Fraser which have been farily successful. Hopefully predicted numbers are off, which would surprise nobody. Good news is that the river is usually not fishable before mid June anyways and some of the best Chinook fishing on the Fraser is Between June 15 to Aug. So in reality this non-retention between May 1 - June 15 doesn't really effect sportfishing on the Fraser. I sometimes wonder what the motive is for posts such as this.
You guys probable should have made the suggestion using the words from a fixed weight instead of just saying from the weight. This way there is no way they can use a sliding weight system that when reeled in is 1m but when out in the water can be double or triple that.
-
I will have to think a bit how to answer your last observation Vic. However I know I have worked since 1984 when several of us through the FVSS got the Fraser River open for recreational angling for adult chinooks once again with other openings for other salmon species after that.
I thought that was pretty positive and I believe action is stronger than words anyway so I will leave it at that.
-
Chris, don't bother, I know how much you have contributed to sportfishing and all the positive things you have done, just sometimes wonder about the constant doom and gloom posts.
-
That DFO, in line with A Policy for Selective Fishing in Canada's Pacific Fisheries (Fisheries and Oceans Canada, January 2001) develop a regulation limiting leader length to 1 metre from the weight; that would be put in force when there are sockeye stocks of concern present in the Fraser River non-tidal areas between the upstream side of the CPR bridge at Mission to Sawmill Creek in order to allow anglers to continue to fish for other species while minimizing impacts on sockeye.
The past week we have seen several FN openings on the Fraser which have been farily successful. Hopefully predicted numbers are off, which would surprise nobody. Good news is that the river is usually not fishable before mid June anyways and some of the best Chinook fishing on the Fraser is Between June 15 to Aug. So in reality this non-retention between May 1 - June 15 doesn't really effect sportfishing on the Fraser. I sometimes wonder what the motive is for posts such as this.
You guys probable should have made the suggestion using the words from a fixed weight instead of just saying from the weight. This way there is no way they can use a sliding weight system that when reeled in is 1m but when out in the water can be double or triple that.
They should also add "main weight" as well. Nothing to prevent someone from sticking a tiny splitshot 1 M above the hook and call that the "leader" and then add the 3 ounce betty 10 feet later.
-
I'm still having troubles getting my mind around the fact of "No Chinook" this year. :(
I thought the brothers and sisters of all those Jacks we caught last year,
would make for great fishing the next couple of years. :-\
-
I'm still having troubles getting my mind around the fact of "No Chinook" this year. :(
I thought the brothers and sisters of all those Jacks we caught last year,
would make for great fishing the next couple of years. :-\
Donot give up as we may get a retention in the middle of June.
-
I'm still having troubles getting my mind around the fact of "No Chinook" this year. :(
I thought the brothers and sisters of all those Jacks we caught last year,
would make for great fishing the next couple of years. :-\
Donot give up as we may get a retention in the middle of June.
There is NO scientific reason to not have an opening.
-
MUST be real low stocks. ::)
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes.html (http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes.html)
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CeremonialOpeningTimes.html (http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CeremonialOpeningTimes.html)
I like what I see numbers wise so far though.
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/ChinookKeptCatch.html (http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/ChinookKeptCatch.html)
-
MUST be real low stocks. ::)
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes.html (http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes.html)
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CeremonialOpeningTimes.html (http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CeremonialOpeningTimes.html)
I like what I see numbers wise so far though.
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/ChinookKeptCatch.html (http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/ChinookKeptCatch.html)
The problem is that the numbers of fish taken are never counted properly. :( ::)
-
MUST be real low stocks. ::)
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes.html (http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes.html)
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CeremonialOpeningTimes.html (http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CeremonialOpeningTimes.html)
I like what I see numbers wise so far though.
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/ChinookKeptCatch.html (http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/ChinookKeptCatch.html)
The problem is that the numbers of fish taken are never counted properly. :( ::)
IF they were counted at all.
-
Chris, what effect do you think there will be if the F/N are netting as usual starting May 1st?
There is a strong rumor that they will be opened then.
-
Chris, what effect do you think there will be if the F/N are netting as usual starting May 1st?
There is a strong rumor that they will be opened then.
A lot of unhappy anglers. In my mind if they were consumming them it is not so bad but when they start selling them I find that is not satisfactory that FOC does not clamp down on that activity.
-
They will be, check the openings starting the last week of April.