Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: THE_ROE_SLINGER on January 11, 2008, 01:51:11 PM
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Recently on the river I noticed way more people fishing CPs! I remember when i started fishing a pin 5 years ago their were hardly any!
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Recently on the river I noticed way more people fishing CPs! I remember when i started fishing a pin 5 years ago their were hardly any!
I blame paris hilton, her dog (tinkerbell) and the internet.
Damn poseurs.
Real men fish with baitcasters.
Flame away.
(http://www.dropthatsock.com/content/paris250_250.jpg)
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If you grew up as a kid fishing with fisherman who fished in the forties, fifties, or the sixties you really had no choice to fish anything but pins, usually silexes in my dad's circle of friends. Your only other choice was spinning reels (my dad called them coffee grinders)....he wouldn't allow one in the house. When I fished the Thompson as a kid I'd see the odd guy, who were always Americans fishing with a phleuger(Sp.?), a bait casting type of reel.
So long story short... I started off with a seldex when I was a wee todler and got my first silex, a suberba, for Christmas when I was nine and it's still my go to reel....never once has it needed a repair. I do own baitcasters for the women in my life (daughter, wife) because they are so easy to learn to cast on and they don't fish the rivers enough to want to learn to use a CP. I think the use of CP's has increased a lot because of websites like these.
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What are the main advantages/disadvantages of both types ?
From what Ive read, baitcasters are good for river and stillwater as bass fishermen and other Yanks use them for all kinds of fishing.
Center pin seems like a river thing mainly and is not mentioned very often when others describe what reels they use. They are far simpler in design and have been around longer I assume.
Centerpins arent cheap either ! You can grab ultra cheap baitcasters starting at 25 bones but I am hard pressed to find a CP's in that range. Most CP's are like works of art and seem to be a precision tools almost surgical in some cases.
Most pros on this site use CP's and you know what people do - Emulate the pros ! -
just like all those beer leauge hockey leauge suckers who spend more on 1 peice graphite sticks in one season than the team fees they pay. ( then I slash them to peices and they start crying :D )
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More moving parts=more maintenance
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In my eyes fishing a centerpin is like a right of passage.
Maybe one day I will get one, but for now I do not feel as though I have earned the right to fish one.
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In my eyes fishing a centerpin is like a right of passage.
Maybe one day I will get one, but for now I do not feel as though I have earned the right to fish one.
I know what you are saying but anyone who fishes as much as you do, ties their own flies and jigs, catches lots of fish, knows about the life cycle and science of fish, etc. (all things I've learned about you from reading posts on this site) has earned that right!
It's not like you're going to flounder out there on the river like the guy who has a gazillion dollars whose goes snow plowing down the bunny hill in his $5 grand worth of ski gear...now that guy hasn't earned the right!
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Recently on the river I noticed way more people fishing CPs! I remember when i started fishing a pin 5 years ago their were hardly any!
I blame paris hilton, her dog (tinkerbell) and the internet.
Damn poseurs.
Real men fish with baitcasters.
Flame away.
(http://www.dropthatsock.com/content/paris250_250.jpg)
That's Hot!
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I like using both.
Sometimes you feel like a nut and sometimes you are one. ;D
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I changed over to the pin last year eventhough I had one for many years. I can say that I will never go back to the baitcaster again. The fight is just plain amazing. You control the drag totally with your palm.
I will still fish with a baitcaster when I am on the Fraser.
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I have always used a bait caster but have just picked up my first pin. Just waiting for it to come in. I can not wait to try it out.
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Centerpins are a fad. people are getting them now before even becoming close to mastering a baitcaster... its all to look stylish and grab attention. That being said ive been using one for over 8 years... and there was definetly less people using them and more pride in fishing one. Everyone and there dog has a pin...
Spey fishing is becoming crazy too.. the next fad?
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coryandtrevor,
you know stick slashing is now a penalty. If it results in my broken Easton Stealth, I'll be going to the box also for a 5 minute major.
As far as the cp/bc thing goes, I find the bc more versatile. I can float fish, fish cranks, spoons, spinners, jigs. I know you can do that on a cp, but try burning a buzz bait or fishing spinners or spoons w/o a float and current. If I'm going to resort to a cp, I'll just get my spey rod and fly fish. Just my 2 C.
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I used both too. I have 2 center pins - a Silex and a J.W.Young Purist. The Silex being heavier duty, I use it for springs and also close shore casting. The Purist I used it with a customed Loomis 1261, a light action rod. This is a very light set up and I use it mainly lower river fishing where I have a lot more room to play a fish w/o over stressing the lighter set up. I also have a bait caster Shimano Calcutta that I use now a lot of time for very accurate long casting - very important in fishing mid-river pocket water behind boulders. With the bc, I can accurately and effortlessly cast across the river with the more accurate overhead cast, and land at just a small pocket water behind a boulder, a riffle, or log jam on the other side of a wide river. This way as I move along testing pockets, I am covering both sides of the river. I can do that with the cp too, but you have to do side casting for longer distance casts and so not as accurate and trees or bushes can limit your side casts too. As the years go by, I also find the cp quite a tiring task to retrieve from those long cross-river casts, as cp only works on a 1:1 ratio whereas the Shimano bc is 6:1 and therefore you can make a lot more long casts in a day w/o tiring as much. The more casts you can do in a day, the more chance of a hook up. However, the cp is definitely much more superior in fight quailty than a bc, no comparison there. Nothing beats the experience of using your own control on the drag than depending on a mechanical system. So there are merits in both types of reels. Tough choices there. So make your pick . ;) My humble 2 cents.
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coryandtrevor,
you know stick slashing is now a penalty. If it results in my broken Easton Stealth, I'll be going to the box also for a 5 minute major.
haha Id be pissed if someone did that to me.. my brohter broke 6 one year.. never got in a fight though..but then again hes crazy so most people tend to avoid it.
my last year midget the dman was slashing the back of my legs in front of the net so i stomped his stick with my skate and broke it..lol
back to the topic though... baitcaster IS more versatile in the sense you can float fish then switch to spoons and such but the natural drift with centerpin cant be beat and if im going to toss spoons ill be doing it all day anyways so a spinning reel is fine..
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coryandtrevor,
you know stick slashing is now a penalty. If it results in my broken Easton Stealth, I'll be going to the box also for a 5 minute major.
As far as the cp/bc thing goes, I find the bc more versatile. I can float fish, fish cranks, spoons, spinners, jigs. I know you can do that on a cp, but try burning a buzz bait or fishing spinners or spoons w/o a float and current. If I'm going to resort to a cp, I'll just get my spey rod and fly fish. Just my 2 C.
Well dont get too carried away Bertuzzi. Now if you 'sucker me from behind and drive my head into the ice' I have something to go on. Its not my fault that the new brittle graphite sticks succumb to the my 1st Gen. Easton Alumininum golden axe.
I just bought my first BC yesterday and cant wait to use it. ! CP's look cool but I would just look like more of a posuer than I already am, so maybe I will wait untill I catch a few fish first.
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post was deleted. You're right Rodney, I'll post in sports section. BR
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Topic is starting to sidetrack. Start a new topic on sticks in the sport section (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?board=9.0) if interested please.
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back to the topic though... baitcaster IS more versatile in the sense you can float fish then switch to spoons and such but the natural drift with centerpin cant be beat and if im going to toss spoons ill be doing it all day anyways so a spinning reel is fine..\
Pretty much summed it up kingpin.
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I can understand the thrill of fighting a fish with a 1:1 ratio, but as far as a natural drift thing goes, I'm confused. I have absolutely zero startup and spool friction on my calcutta's. I free spool the line all the time when I'm drifting and don't influence the drift at all. With that said, how does a cp give you a better drift?
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Got my first CP in about 1968, tried a baitcaster for a couple of years, I'm pretty sure they were just a fad as everyone's going back to center pins now. :)
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Baitcaster if I am gear fishing, but its rare that I am gear fishing ;)
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5:1 gear ratio all the way... I did own an avon royal for awhile, and needed cash so I sold it... Never went back...
I still use the same shimano speedmaster from 1987. It was expensive back then, but worth every penny.
The money I spend on new gear is for spey stuff... That's where it's really at, for me anyway!
Cheers,
Nicole
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a 5:1 ratio only helps if the spool diameters are comparable. Think of how large the diameter of a centrepin spool is, a 4" diameter reel brings in over a foot per hand crank where as a baitcaster has less than an inch in diameter so therefore brings in only about 3" per spool rotation and 15" per hand crank (on a 5:1 gear ratio). Only 3" more than a centrepin. So give the whole gear ratio advantage a rest. Oh, and hand crank diameters are nearly equal too.
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Ive fished with a baitcaster all my life, i owned one at one time, and the centerpin out does the baitcaster by far. Only thing a centerpin lacks is a drag but it makes up for that in the drift and looks section.
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a 5:1 ratio only helps if the spool diameters are comparable. Think of how large the diameter of a centrepin spool is, a 4" diameter reel brings in over a foot per hand crank where as a baitcaster has less than an inch in diameter so therefore brings in only about 3" per spool rotation and 15" per hand crank (on a 5:1 gear ratio). Only 3" more than a centrepin. So give the whole gear ratio advantage a rest. Oh, and hand crank diameters are nearly equal too.
That's a good point...
:)
Nicole
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So then why are are CP so much slower to retrieve than the BC? ;D
Only way i can bring in my CP fast is if i free wheel it otherwise its way slower than my Calcutta.
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You have to take into account the amount of line on the spool.
If you are fishing a full BC spool, the brings the diameter up.
Look at the stats on most common BC reels. Each retrieve brings in 24-36 inches.
Compare that to the 12-18 inches by CPs.
Both CP and BC have their advantages. However, the CP is the only one with
disadvantages. In the hands of a good angler, the baitcaster will always outfish a pin.
Especially for steelies. More time in the water = more fish.
With a BC you can cover alot more water and spend more time in that water. If you are fishing
close to shore with a short drift, then CP is fine. But as soon as you start bombing casts
across the river, the gear ratio of the BC comes into play.
CPs are slow..slow..slow. You spend all day retrieving.
As far as the natural drift issue. I think it is a myth. Or more so a sellling point for CPs.
Any decent BC reel made in the past 5 years has NO startup drag or friction on the free spool.
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It looks like a fairly clear choice to me. If you want to be a "purist", go with the cp. Otherwise, if you want to take advantage of technology, buy a nice bc and go fishing. I completely get the elitist attitude that some....many fly fishers and cp'ers have. It's part of their culture. I cater to it when I have rich clients. The first thing I do is compliment them on their sweet Hardy, and the day goes by so much better for them because you've acknowledged their expensive gear.
As far as what's better; if we were all purists, we'd still be riding horses and spear fishing. I prefer my Silverado and Calcutta.
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CPs are slow..slow..slow. You spend all day retrieving.
That slower retrieve of the CP has without a word of as lie caught me at least one and sometimes more fish for every weekend I fish up at the Thompson. It wasn't as many times this year but in the past usually 15 + days a year. My buddies who fish BC's never hook steelies on their retrieve because its way too fast. I'll take those "bonus" fish any day over a faster retrieve...besides that extra reeling helps to keep my hands warm.
Also, when that thermometer dips into the-10 or colder range their BC are constantly freezing up (doesn't matter what make or model) and that can ruin their day....that NEVER happens to a CP which has far fewer parts. When it comes to casting distance with a float setup, I can get it out just as far or further than most because I'm fishing off a 12' rod whereas most BC tend to use 10'6" rods, which makes it even tougher when you have 7-8 or more feet of line between your float and lead which you need to do in certain runs.
And puttting the "fun" factor aside when playing fish on a pin... its also far more effective when playing fish....you can play the fish better when you are supplying the right amount of drag at all times. Guys who know how to use them lose less fish and can get the fish to hand much quicker which translate into less stress on the fish and a far more successful release.
BC's are great for spoon fishing or bottom bouncing deep holes if the bottom is good enough to do it. I even prefer to use them when chucking blue foxes instead of a spinning reel but when it comes to drift fishing I'll stick to my superba or one of my other pins for the reasons stated above.
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Ive fished with a baitcaster all my life, i owned one at one time, and the centerpin out does the baitcaster by far. Only thing a centerpin lacks is a drag but it makes up for that in the drift and looks section.
I love it without a drag...That is one of the reasons why they are good. Waaaaay funner fight ;)
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there may be no drag on CP's, but a 12.5' rod inherently adds more line friction than a 10.5' bc rod (more guides = more line friction). So, you are not truly drag free. As far as the reel speed thing goes, the lure only comes in as fast as you reel it. You can have a 100:1 bc and bring your lure in just as slow as a cp if you reel slow enough. But, you can never bring your lure in as fast with a cp than a bc. Also, I've had my guides freeze up, but never the gearing in my bc.
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Also, I've had my guides freeze up, but never the gearing in my bc.
Won't happen on the coast....try fishing at 0 degrees F. or -15 C. or colder...seen it a WHOLE lot! It's not always the gears to seize up...it's usually the water brought in on the line which ends up in the reel that causes the problems.
And what "drag free" means is that there is no device on the reel to change it. It doesn't mean because it's drag free that you play a fish without applying any drag....you wouldn't get a fish in without applying drag to the reel...you'd backlash. Having a few extra guides on your rod won't make any difference at all when playing a fish...it's the fisherman who determines how much drag to apply to the pin.
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Yeup. There is nothing better than fighting a steelie with your own finger 'disc brake', you can feel every pull of the fish. Add that with a sensitive rod, then each fight is an experience to remember. I will bring my pins out soon enough when there are more steelies around. ;)
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I live in North Central Washington and not on the Coast. It gets below 0 F here quite frequently. When guiding, I'd be on the water all the time, regardless of the weather. However, now that I have some years under my belt, I'd rather strap on the long boards, skates, get in my heated boat or better yet, kick back and watch some hockey and have a cold one when it gets too cold outside.
So, after reading all the threads, I guess it's each to their own. Hopefully it was helpful for those deciding to become an elitist or those who prefer to catch fish ;D
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an elitist or those who prefer to catch fish ;D
What's next, get your butler to catch the salmon?
Thurston Howell the 3rd uses centrepins. It's a FACT!
(http://images.forbes.com/media/lists/fictional/2005/top_9.jpg)
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You say more people using pins now than 5 years ago. I've used them for 40 years and that's all you ever seen on the river in
those days. They do seem to be getting more popular now. So much more fun to fish with eh.
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This has been a really good thread for me to read. I'm going to pick up a drift setup soon and though I have a fair bit of fishing experience for other species I have next to none when it comes to steelhead, having only been 3 or 4 times (albeit with an excellent mentor). For me, I would rather concentrate on learning the fish and it's behavior rather than the gear. I think I would spend more time f#$@ing around on centerpin than actually getting the correct drift and learning the habits of the fish...I have used a baitcaster for other fish before and find it very simple. Maybe in a few years when I have a few dozen steelies under my belt I'll go to the pin. And hey, what about a hybrid reel...just break the drag on your baitcaster and thumb the spool for drag ;)
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And hey, what about a hybrid reel...just break the drag on your baitcaster and thumb the spool for drag ;)
lol i think your thumb would be pretty red after that ;D
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Bought my first pin in November now I have three don't think I'll go back to a bc
Much more enjoyable fishing and fighting with a pin ! ;D
Can't wait to hook my first vedder steelie on my new Milner SWEEEET 8)
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Yes there are very addicting!!..Most of my income goes towards my centerpin collection ;D...I believe im at 13 now :P