Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: RA40 on August 30, 2007, 02:12:18 PM
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Last night a few of us met with Local MP Randy Kamp and Pacific Region assistant to Minister, Dan Cody.
We discussed current situation on the Fraser with regards to all aspects of the fishery including First Nations, Recreational and on going US Commercial fishing. This meeting was with the Fraser Valley Angling Guide Association and in spirit of co-operation. In no way was this meeting to undermine current process through SFAC/SFAB. As an industry steakholder, we felt that our own voice needed to be heard directly to those who can make a difference.
Where we are at now -
The Fraser River is now open to to sportfishing starting tomorrow ( thanks to all the hard work of people like Rod Clapton, Frank Kwak, Bill Otway and organizations like FVSS, FVAGA. BCFDF, BCWF & public who wote letters).
DFO is still requesting that anglers not bottom bounce to avoid intercepting the remaining sockeye moving throught the river. The Tackle industry and FVAGA and it's members fully support the request by DFO to selectively fish the Fraser River for Chinook and Pink Salmon. Methods that can be used include, bar fishing, spin fishing, spoons fishing,back trolling, fly fishing and any other method except Bottom Bouncing.
I think the message has been sent loud and clear, stop bottom bouncing when the river is not open to retention of sockeye or you won't be fishing at all.
The River is starting to really clear up, great visibility, the test fishery shows lots of Chinook, Pinks are coming, get out and fish, but please NO BBing.
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Here,here.
From what I have herd is the test nets have been getting large numbers of chinook. They will bite.
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For those who need information on bar fishing, please read:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=14513.0
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Good to hear the river has reopened,i hope everyone has the common sense to fish selectively so we can all enjoy a few days on the river. 8)
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does anyone have any bouncing betties for sale ?? ;D ;D
JK , sounds like with the clearing water flyfishing will be a hoot !!
TH
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If you want to fly fish there is a great spot just off hwy 7 below the pipe line. I believe people call it snag bar. The travel route is close to shore with lots of room for the back cast and you do not even have to wade into the river. This bar is extremly long so you will have lote of room to fly fish un like some of the other bars out there. This is a walk in bar just look for the cars parked on the side of the road west of the pipe line. There are two trails one at the pipe line and one about a km west of the pipe line. this is how long the bar is.
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does anyone have any bouncing betties for sale ?? ;D ;D
JK , sounds like with the clearing water flyfishing will be a hoot !!
TH
How do betties work as slingshot ammo? If I see a BB'er maybe I could "give" him a betty via airmail. ;)
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Thank You RA40 for all the hard work and devotion to this special resource we share . And specail thanks to Rod , Frank , Bill , and to the organization's . And every one else involved . Tight lines every one 8) .
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does anyone have any bouncing betties for sale ?? ;D ;D
JK , sounds like with the clearing water flyfishing will be a hoot !!
TH
Let me know if you and DMW want to go out, I have a killer spot to take you guys to so you can practice your casting, in between fish...
We can hook it up when things start getting good out there...
:)
Nicole
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Thanks to all who helped get this fishery re-opened, we all very much appreciate all your hard work.
:)
Nicole
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does anyone have any bouncing betties for sale ?? ;D ;D
JK , sounds like with the clearing water flyfishing will be a hoot !!
TH
Let me know if you and DMW want to go out, I have a killer spot to take you guys to so you can practice your casting, in between fish...
We can hook it up when things start getting good out there...
:)
Nicole
That sounds like a pretty good idea Nicole and thanks for the offer!! ;) :)
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I hope everyone abide by the DFO request.
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Good work Vic and also for posting the NO BOTTOM BOUNCING request on the STS web page. ;D ;D
Lets hope others appreciate the work you and others have done to get the river open again.
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does anyone have any bouncing betties for sale ?
(http://www.steelheader.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/7422fishbeater.gif)
(http://www.steelheader.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/7422fishbeater.gif)
(http://www.steelheader.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/7422fishbeater.gif)
(http://www.steelheader.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/7422fishbeater.gif)
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Great work RA40, we can really enjoy our long weekend!! Our work should be to clean up the garbage around our fishing spot, a shared responsibility. Have a great weekend
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not a bad idea.We spnet all day yesterday collectiong line and crap from seabird to laidlaw, pipline was and is so badly littered with new and old line we just made a fire and burned piles of it.Also found a poor dead bald eagle with no talons :P
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Leadbelly I hope you made a report to a C.O. abouit where you found the dead Bald eagle.
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I just happened to program the ORR and RAPP #s into my new phone before I left yesterday
figured I might see something fishy ;) did not expect that though.The CO said he was going to go check it out.
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Good work as usual LB, looks like you may lose your market for betties. ;D ;D
O, I forgot you just cremated them and made bar weights with the remains. ;D ;D ;D
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I think this weekend will be interesting in guaging the impact of the internet because I think most forums have been advocating non-bb'ing,
so my theory is that most who are bb'ing will not be internet fisherman.
ps...crazy avatar, eh? I found it on a US based fishing forum.
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One of our guides just called, he has landed 3 springs this morning off of Peg Leg bar fishing from the boat. Get out there and enjoy the long weekend.
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I think this weekend will be interesting in guaging the impact of the internet because I think most forums have been advocating non-bb'ing...
Don't be silly, the impact of the internet on fishing is only negative, never positive. ;D
ps...crazy avatar, eh? I found it on a US based fishing forum.
That's what I looked like two days ago when the first pink salmon was landed.
One of our guides just called, he has landed 3 springs this morning off of Peg Leg bar fishing from the boat. Get out there and enjoy the long weekend.
Excellent to see, and shouldn't be surprising with the result that the Albion test fishery has been producing.
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I hope everyone abide by the DFO request.
LOL
Don't wanna sound negative but .......
There are alot of people who care, but the fraser river fishery has become a meat fishery and most of those guys out there are for the meat and don't care if dfo has asked for selective fishing or not. Mark my words, most will be bottom bouncing in no time.
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You may be right but there is always hope
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Because you might not think about it. See Bill's comments.
Please find attached the press notice from the Fraser Panel this date. Please take note of the extended seine and gillnet fisheries that have been approved for the U.S. waters. The head of the Canadian Panel had to agree to this.
You will note that they claim non-retention of Sockeye, a very sick joke in the gillnet fishery. They use at least 200 fathoms of net, monofilament generally, with 90 meshes deep and a two hour drift in the ocean.
They may not retain the Sockeye but it matters little as they all will be dead.
You will note that gillnets and seines are open until Monday Sept 3 in areas 6, 7 & 7A - Off Point Roberts adjacent to the mouth of the Fraser. In areas 4B, 5, and 6C gillnets have been extended until noon next Wednesday.
So not only does DFO continue to approve the killing of the Sockeye they claim to care so much about, but they allow major extensions on the commercial U.S. harvest of Pink Salmon while they continue to keep the recreational fishery in the Fraser River at 2 per day, "until they can get a run size". It seems they don't need run sizes for those very selective gillnets but this highly efficient "non selective", (by DFO definition) sport fishery that might, I mean MIGHT encounter 50 Sockeye over the next month, is restricted because I guess we are Canadian.
Bill Otway
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Hmmm...might explain in part why the Pink salmon run in the Fraser has now been downgraded to only 10 million fish ???.
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Hmmm...might explain in part why the Pink salmon run in the Fraser has now been downgraded to only 10 million fish ???.
Something fishy going on in the marine phase of all returning species. All of the pink salmon that I have seen so far are much smaller in weight than previous runs. This is simply personal observations so not much can be concluded until all measurements are done and analyzed from the test fisheries at the end of the season.
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guys are still flossing. Just heard from a friend that's out bar fishing today and he saw lots of flossers trying for chinooks.
Sad really.
edit here now. I was just told there were over 50 guys on the scale bar today just flossing away. Nice to see people really care about the sport of fishing. It sure seems like it's all about rape, plunder and pillage then on to do the next thing.
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Hmmm...might explain in part why the Pink salmon run in the Fraser has now been downgraded to only 10 million fish ???.
DFO does this every year. Every spring early summer DFO comes up with estimate on the strength of various runs. Come fall, it's always downgraded.
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Hmmm...might explain in part why the Pink salmon run in the Fraser has now been downgraded to only 10 million fish ???.
Part of it would have something to do with those 3 million chum and pink eggs that were killed by the cheam gravel extraction two winters ago... I wonder if charges will ever come out of that.
:(
Nicole
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I was out in Chilliwack area today, no luck for me. I guess there are still lots of anglers who don't give a damn and just bounce away at Peg Leg. Talked to 3 boat loads with US plates at Island 22 and they say its legal to bb, the regs don't say you can't. This time when DFO closes the Fraser we know exactly where the blame lies. >:( :pissed:
Maybe the Fraser Valley Salmon Society needs to team up with the Fraser Valley Guiding Association and hold an information session for the next two weeks, and travel around by boat, advising about the issue... Maybe people don't care about their method, as they don't know.
Cheers,
Nicole
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Part of it would have something to do with those 3 million chum and pink eggs that were killed by the cheam gravel extraction two winters ago... I wonder if charges will ever come out of that.
:(
Nicole
No it doesn't actually. The damage done from the gravel extraction in 2005 was unnecessary, but does not contribute to the downgrading of the pink run. The pre-season pink salmon return is estimated based on outgoing smolt sampling done in Mission, so mortality at pre-smolt stages have been taken into account. Based on the smolt population sampling, it was estimated that 600 million juveniles entered the ocean. The downgrading should not be a surprise either. The 19.5 million estimate is at P50 level, meaning there is a 50% chance that 19.5 million fish would return, but most likely (>50%) the return is much lower than that.
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Betting Rodney's got the answer for this question.
what is the mortality rates for the various salmon species
% of smolts in river to predation and disease etc.
% immatures in river to predation etc.
% in ocean to natural predation and disease
% in ocean to commercial harvest
% in ocean to sport fishing
% in river to natural predation
% in river to sport fishing
% in river to Native Food
% in river to native commercial fisheries
% in river other commercial.
% of run left to repreduce the stock ( this is the most important number)
or do you have a source for this info?
tried DFO and got brushed off.
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Hmmm...might explain in part why the Pink salmon run in the Fraser has now been downgraded to only 10 million fish ???.
Part of it would have something to do with those 3 million chum and pink eggs that were killed by the cheam gravel extraction two winters ago... I wonder if charges will ever come out of that.
:(
Nicole
Call me a skeptic but I highly doubt it.
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I was out in Chilliwack area today, no luck for me. I guess there are still lots of anglers who don't give a damn and just bounce away at Peg Leg. Talked to 3 boat loads with US plates at Island 22 and they say its legal to bb, the regs don't say you can't. This time when DFO closes the Fraser we know exactly where the blame lies. >:( :pissed:
Maybe the Fraser Valley Salmon Society needs to team up with the Fraser Valley Guiding Association and hold an information session for the next two weeks, and travel around by boat, advising about the issue... Maybe people don't care about their method, as they don't know.
Cheers,
Nicole
good luck getting most of the guides to go along and use selective fishing, just go out and see how many guides boats are bottom boucing out there.
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I was out in Chilliwack area today, no luck for me. I guess there are still lots of anglers who don't give a damn and just bounce away at Peg Leg. Talked to 3 boat loads with US plates at Island 22 and they say its legal to bb, the regs don't say you can't. This time when DFO closes the Fraser we know exactly where the blame lies. >:( :pissed:
Maybe the Fraser Valley Salmon Society needs to team up with the Fraser Valley Guiding Association and hold an information session for the next two weeks, and travel around by boat, advising about the issue... Maybe people don't care about their method, as they don't know.
Cheers,
Nicole
good luck getting most of the guides to go along and use selective fishing, just go out and see how many guides boats are bottom boucing out there.
If that is true and too much of this is still going on by others as well it will cost us all once again. You can be sure FOC will be monitoring the numbers this weekend.
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I suspect it will be closed again by September 11th to protect thompson coho...
Cheers,
Nicole
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Nicole, the FVSS and the FVAGA both support the selective fishing request. We can't be going around boat to boat, it's not our place just like it is not our place to post requests on this and other sites. Go to the other site and see what heat i've taken for posting. It's DFO job to enforce and MOE job to educate anglers. They need to change the flipp'n rules so that we don't go through this every year.
Chris, the compliance will be difficult on this long weekend. the last thing we need is people calling DFO trying to have the river closed again, like has happended in the past. Be patient, changes don't happen over night. You have made great strides and have gained some important support from industry.
From what i am told the bber's are back in the same problem area's. Close Scale bar and Spagetti and 3/4 of the bb's are gone.
The majority of guides are not bbing, get your facts strait, any FVAGA member who is will be disiplined by the directors. If you see guides bb, they are probably not members of the FVAGA. You can check to see who are members at -http://www.bcfishingguides.net
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But don't you think Vic that if they shut down those problem areas the bb will just move to a new spot? A couple of friends of mine that i don't fish with very often are avid bb's and they saw guide boats bb. I think they should put a leader restriction of 2 feet. And then start fining.
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But don't you think Vic that if they shut down those problem areas the bb will just move to a new spot? A couple of friends of mine that i don't fish with very often are avid bb's and they saw guide boats bb. I think they should put a leader restriction of 2 feet. And then start fining.
one thing alot of people dont understand is there is a ton of very fancy looking jet boats out there that are not fishing guides, granted they might look that way but you cannot paint them all with the same brush... the fraser valley angling guides are truly leaders when it comes down to leading by example...
Spot closures are very common on the island and would work extremely well out here...
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Go to the other site and see what heat i've taken for posting.
Were you taking heat? I thought people were just hungry. ;D
It's DFO job to enforce and MOE job to educate anglers. They need to change the flipp'n rules so that we don't go through this every year.
It is indeed up to the two agencies when it comes to enforcement and public educational outreach. Unfortunately, budget cut has further slashed away what little educational program there is left at DFO. This year's cut affected our event in Steveston but thanks to all the helpful staff who went out of their way to assist, we managed to survive for another year.
I think what Nicole was suggesting is that having an information sheet developed for anglers to read may increase compliance. The information would include the difference between bottom bouncing and bar fishing, brief summary of Fraser River sockeye's biology and what would happen if people are not fishing selectively. A couple of years ago I suggested this in an email that went out to SFAC members and most of the guides (I think you read a copy of it too Vic) but there were not much interests, perhaps there is now. People obviously will not stop after being told by others who do not represent the agency that manages the fishery. The best thing that can be done is to educate. Of course not everyone will listen, but I would think some will choose to change when informed and reasoned.
It maybe too late to do this for the remainder of this season, but perhaps something to consider for next year. For now, at least learn how to work collectively and objectively as a group to tackle the problem. Threads such as this one start with a positive intention, but some (on both sides of the issue) always choose to stride their ego and derail the discussion by demonstrating that they know what's best for this fishery. Get involved, join an existing group that has representations at meetings where changes are made. The continuation and repetition of this debate on an internet discussion forum changes nothing, instead it only turns people off.
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Yep that's what I was talking about, simply an information sheet, I would not want to see anyone beaten up! It would be meant to be an informational non threatening effort.
Anyone who ignored your presence could simply be read a brief version of the sheet, and then move on.
Boat launches would be best place to target these boats, I'm sure lots of volunteers could be wrangled up to sit for four hours... It'd be best if they were attractive women ;)
It would be nice if a CO was at the launch as well, to support the message being presented...
How many COs are there in Chilliwack?
Cheers,
Nicole
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Yep that's what I was talking about, simply an information sheet, I would not want to see anyone beaten up! It would be meant to be an informational non threatening effort.
Anyone who ignored your presence could simply be read a brief version of the sheet, and then move on.
Boat launches would be best place to target these boats, I'm sure lots of volunteers could be wrangled up to sit for four hours... It'd be best if they were attractive women ;)
It would be nice if a CO was at the launch as well, to support the message being presented...
How many COs are there in Chilliwack?
Cheers,
Nicole
4 or 5 and they have just expanded the area they covered. :o We will be discussing this with the Minster once again in our up and coming meeting.
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Not saying all guides are BBing but seriously how many guides are bringing out thier clients to bar fish during the salmon season
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Bar fishing out of the boat is no different than sturgeon fishing, lots of fun, I'm sure clients wouldn't know the difference...
Cheers,
Nicole
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If there is real interest in dealing with the bb issue, then a lobbying effort to the SFAB is needed. They do not want gear restrictions, and prefer that the DFO declare that the species is either open to retention or not, or that the area is closed or open. Therefore harsh measures are the only cure if the area is open, and there is no retention allowed on a particular species but are being impacted by non-selective fishing methods. The SFAB is the 'official' advisory group to DFO, and without their support nothing will happen other than the river being closed down. A common voice within the rec community will be the only thing that brings about change.
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Not saying all guides are BBing but seriously how many guides are bringing out thier clients to bar fish during the salmon season
Most.
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Outrage, you have to love it.
Bottom bouncers are killing all the fish and forcing DFO to close the river.
I see not outrage over the F/N KILLING THOMPSON STEELHEAD?
l see no outrage over allowing a Gill NET opening at the mouth of the river, which Will kill more SOCKEYE than all the sportys have this season?
People are catching and releasing fish, what is wrong with that?
The sports anglers are closing the river as they are fighting with each other and the F/N used this to have DFO close the river.
What part of that did you not understand?
Keep on in-fighting and you will be off the river.
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If there is real interest in dealing with the bb issue, then a lobbying effort to the SFAB is needed. They do not want gear restrictions, and prefer that the DFO declare that the species is either open to retention or not, or that the area is closed or open. Therefore harsh measures are the only cure if the area is open, and there is no retention allowed on a particular species but are being impacted by non-selective fishing methods. The SFAB is the 'official' advisory group to DFO, and without their support nothing will happen other than the river being closed down. A common voice within the rec community will be the only thing that brings about change.
From what I gather they will be doing just that at a meeting in the near future. I believe they will come up with some good solutions as some know there is a problem out there that needs attention.
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Further to the above RA40, guides and tackle shop owners have done a great job with a series of meeting that included meeting with some politicians. He and others do care about the future of our fisheries and the fish, that is why they are doing something. Hats off to them.
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Yes I feel we should thank all those who helped get the Fraser opened once again. Thanks Griz :)
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Outrage, you have to love it.
Bottom bouncers are killing all the fish and forcing DFO to close the river.
I see not outrage over the F/N KILLING THOMPSON STEELHEAD?
l see no outrage over allowing a Gill NET opening at the mouth of the river, which Will kill more SOCKEYE than all the sportys have this season?
People are catching and releasing fish, what is wrong with that?
The sports anglers are closing the river as they are fighting with each other and the F/N used this to have DFO close the river.
What part of that did you not understand?
I am with you all the way Old Black Dog. While I have not fished the Fraser since late July and now more focused on lower river pinks and bass, and while I DO NOTsupport the reopening of the upper Fraser while sockeyes are threatened, I just don't see the point that people have to endlessly hammer BBing as the culprit for the river being closed. It is ok to make request politely, but not ok to use the thread to again bash bbing by some members. DFO knows their numbers. The BBers and their c/r of accidentally hooked sockeyes are not the threat to the stock. If that is the case, why have more & more openings to the net fleets which kill sockeyes massively and non-selectively. We sporties are just the scapegoats, a political ploy. Don't need to use this opportunity to put down the bottom bouncers and their techniques again and again.
Like I said before, I don't agree with the reopening if sockeyes are still threatened. All parties should stop. But if the net fleets are allowed to net, and bfers allowed to target spring, then it is up to those bbers to decide if they should or should not fish unless DFO specifically outlaws bbing for the Fraser. There is no need to further bash their fishing approaches in face of the net fleets being a much larger threat and yet allowed to kill indiscriminately. For those targeting pinks, why not just do it at lower Fraser. They are much fresher down river. Why need to open upper Fraser for rotting pinks? Perhaps it is time the valley folks drive down river to fish, like we city folks have done so for endless times going the other way (Wow, Richmond's economy will simmer ;D).
Close the darn thing down so there is no more need to fight over who is right and wrong. Ortherwise, let others make their free choice to fish what legal fishing style they choose. Like OBD says, all the infightings plus the media backslashes (and no doubt which group had provided the media all those twisted & over-exaggerated views about bbers and bbing) just give the natives and DFO the trigger to shut out the sporties regardless of their fishing preferences. So when bfers lobbied hard to shut down the bbers, they shot their own toes too. ;D
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Saturday Sept 01, 3:30 pm, I ran from Mission to Harrison via water. Kept record of every angler.
number per boat - Good to see the river back to what it should look like, people fishing. Oh ya, bar fishing was very good, lots of Springs taken.
Mission to Vedder - 24 boats sturgeon fishing x 3 = 72 anglers
Mouth of Vedder - 11 boats trolling/casting spinners x 2 = 22 anglers
Updown bar - 7 bar rods
Bowmans - 0 fisherman
Hendersons - 3 boats anchored at bottom, plunking spin n glos - 12 anglers
- 41 bar rods on beech
- 7 bar rods at top
- 1 boat anchored at top with 2 bar rods 1 person bb out of boat.
Grassy - 2 boats at bottom - bb 4 anglers
- 8 anglers bb on middle of bar
- 7 boats x 2 anglers bb out of boat at top = 14 bb
Lower Wellington - 14 bar rods
Upper Wellington - 15 bar rods, no bb's
Queens - 4 boats sturgeon fishing x 4 = 16 rods
Island 22 - 10 boats floating, no fishing
Upper Queens - 1 boat 2 bar rods
Lower Mountain - 5 bar rods
Mountain bar - 3 fly fishing at bottom
- 5 bar rods
- 1 bb out of boat at top
Harrison Confluence - 4 boats casting /plunking for Pinks - 12 anglers
no bber's
Didn't make it to Peg Leg or further up. From what I heard there was more fly/plunking fisherman but there were 20 or more people bb in Minto Channel.
233 people fishing using bar rods, sturgeon, spin & fly
28 anglers bbing.
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Over 50 bbing between Laidlaw and Hope which is a small number compared to before the closure. Maybe the DFO should look at spot closures again. Very few bar fishermen on the walk ins up here.
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Over 50 bbing between Laidlaw and Hope which is a small number compared to before the closure. Maybe the DFO should look at spot closures again. Very few bar fishermen on the walk ins up here.
Why would DFO even consider looking at spot closures?
Please tell us why you even said this?
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Apparently the bottom bouncers in the minto channel are just hammering the springs. They need to come right out and ban bottom bouncing on the river while the salmon are still open. These idiots are going to cause it to be closed again.
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Apparently the bottom bouncers in the minto channel are just hammering the springs. They need to come right out and ban bottom bouncing on the river while the salmon are still open. These idiots are going to cause it to be closed again.
Springs are open to fishing.
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BB,ing isnt fishing. ;)
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Go to the other site and see what heat i've taken for posting.
Were you taking heat? I thought people were just hungry. ;D
It's DFO job to enforce and MOE job to educate anglers. They need to change the flipp'n rules so that we don't go through this every year.
It is indeed up to the two agencies when it comes to enforcement and public educational outreach. Unfortunately, budget cut has further slashed away what little educational program there is left at DFO. This year's cut affected our event in Steveston but thanks to all the helpful staff who went out of their way to assist, we managed to survive for another year.
I think what Nicole was suggesting is that having an information sheet developed for anglers to read may increase compliance. The information would include the difference between bottom bouncing and bar fishing, brief summary of Fraser River sockeye's biology and what would happen if people are not fishing selectively. A couple of years ago I suggested this in an email that went out to SFAC members and most of the guides (I think you read a copy of it too Vic) but there were not much interests, perhaps there is now. People obviously will not stop after being told by others who do not represent the agency that manages the fishery. The best thing that can be done is to educate. Of course not everyone will listen, but I would think some will choose to change when informed and reasoned.
It maybe too late to do this for the remainder of this season, but perhaps something to consider for next year. For now, at least learn how to work collectively and objectively as a group to tackle the problem. Threads such as this one start with a positive intention, but some (on both sides of the issue) always choose to stride their ego and derail the discussion by demonstrating that they know what's best for this fishery. Get involved, join an existing group that has representations at meetings where changes are made. The continuation and repetition of this debate on an internet discussion forum changes nothing, instead it only turns people off.
as you and others have said Rod, more info is needed. As anglers become educated about the life cycles of the fish some of the urban legends will be dispelled and perhaps some of the unnecessary infighting will stop. there will always be disagreement among the die hard fly, bait, gear sport angler.
If each angler becomes as ethical as possible we will be seen to be doing our part. If we gather as much information and become as educated as we can about the fisheries we will be less likely to accept the political decisions/closures by DFO.
WE must do as much as we can to maintain and conserve the stock first.
fight to ensure that we have access to the fishery as sport anglers.
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Thanks for the report Vic, looking good in the areas you checked. ;D ;D
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Be as ethical as you want, they (vote chasing losers) will still will close down sport fishery to allow the nets in for the special interest groups. We all have the right to the fish. >:
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Why would DFO even consider looking at spot closures?
The last time they had spot closures it was on areas heavily hit by people bbing to minimize the impact on sockeye, there are still sockeye being impacted on this end of the river, that could be changed by closing the popular bbing bars, it worked before, this isn't the only area being hit as I was told this evening that there were over 150 people bottom bouncing in the gauntlet at peg leg this morning ( I wasn't there so this is second hand information). I'm sure STS. saw lots of bber's today when he was in Hope I counted 30 across from floods alone on the way up about three quarters of an hour before he came up and I saw his boat head down to the scales bar where there were over 35 yesterday, but for some reason he's not giving a bottom bouncer count tonight.
Even though it's nice to have all the pressure off the top end of the river a lot of people still believe it shouldn't have been opened back up without regulation changes.
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BTW troutbreath as long as I have a choice I will be ethical we can't do anthing about the vote chasing losers but we can control our own behavior and not be part of the problem. Just because someone says that an FN is going to catch the last sockeye doesn't mean we as sportsfishers should all head down to the river with our snagging gear and try to beat him to it.
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The bbers are not killing nor targeting sockeyes like FN. Why is it that some one here always tries to paint bbers as unethical and whole bunch of ruthless people. Until I stoppedd in late July, fishing mostly the busy & popular Scale Bar, I have not seen sockeyes mistreated much. If any greenie dragged a fish up the beach, he will be reminded quickly to keep it in the water by those around him. Those in waders would help release a fish in the water for those who were without a wader. The very few sockeyes hooked were usually quickly brought in and released properly. I have never witnessed a sockeye deliberately played out to exhaustion for fun by any one. I don't know why a person has to assume that he/she is more ethical than any bbers I have seen, except that he/she assumes that he/she is holier than thou, and that he/she is on ethical high ground because he/she just cannot accept people making a free choice to fish another legal method. No doubt this kind of fanatic opposition to bbers and bbing eventually lead to some one providing the media with the kind of twisted and exaggerated views about bbers as whole bunch of irresponsible fishing hooligans or morons taking over the Fraser, killing sockeyes daily. OBD is right, those net fleets in one day will kill more sockeyes than the C&R sockeyes of the bbers in one season (and no proof that those c&r sockeyes died subsequently). So, what outrage, except to rant one's inability to accept other's choice of legal fishing method. I always think there are more harm done to sockeye by those heavy lead of bfers which can bonk a sockeye on the head accidentally than a properly released bbing hooked sockeye. Hey, why not? With so many bfers fishing now, and casting their lead nearer shore where sockeye & pink are concentrated, why not? Out of 500 casts, some one will bonk a salmon silly. The heavy current plus the heavy weight will exact its damage if a fish is hit on the head. Why not? It is possible, isn't it. So, why not every one be ethical and stop fishing all together, so that you may not kill the last sockeye accidentally before FN does? Oh, you don't think so? Ah, that is the problem. You think you are more ethical and others are not. And when your own right to enjoy fishing is threatened, you won't settle for it. I see. Ah, the 'me right you wrong' mentality again, so unless others fish like me, they don't deserve to fish. Hmmm, this is Canada, right? ;D
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Threads such as this one start with a positive intention, but some (on both sides of the issue) always choose to stride their ego and derail the discussion by demonstrating that they know what's best for this fishery. Get involved, join an existing group that has representations at meetings where changes are made. The continuation and repetition of this debate on an internet discussion forum changes nothing, instead it only turns people off.
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well put Rod.
As the old saying goes would you like some cheese with your w(h)ine :D
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Counted 175 at Peg Leg today, not much sign of fish on the beach for the number of people.
Space between some was only 4 feet. Lots of garbage per usual, will do a cleanup later today. ::)
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Was very pleased with the little bit of garbage I found and picked up far better than previous years I got there a little late, nearly dark, thats because I got talking to Nicole. ;D
However I found out from her the hot spot to bar fish for chinooks tomorrow. ;D ;D
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I don't know anything about any hotspot, don't listen to him!
:)
Nicole
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Speaking of hot spots for bar fishing, anyone got a good remedy for hemoriodic oxymoronic chair asideis. ;) Leave the delicate fishery in the Fraser alone. I haven't fished the Fraser once this year, that I remember, for the sake of conservation. Even though I have a buckett of betties waiting to slay the last sockeye.
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Nosey, the counts on Scale bar the for the long weekend are extremly low compared to when the river is open to fishing. I counted 29 and 36 on the weekend and last night at 4:30 there was only 6 or 8 left on the bar, normally that would be 100 or more anglers. Chris mentioned very few fish being caught at Peg Leg so time to go back to fishing. The whole issue was around sockeye conservation, there are no sockeye coming through so I would think that for now, we can go back to enjoying the river the way I have for the past 30 years. The FVAGA and other groups will work hard over the winter to try to deal with issues surrounding the Fraser River and BBing. If you want to have some imput, join FVSS or BCFDF or BCWF and go to meetings. Spouting off on the forums will do nothing to solve the problems.
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Counted 175 at Peg Leg today, not much sign of fish on the beach for the number of people.
Space between some was only 4 feet. Lots of garbage per usual, will do a cleanup later today. ::)
I ventured out to Pegleg on Monday for my first Fraser trip of the year !! I was at the top section of the bar and had about 1/2 a km to myself :) tried tossing flies to no avail, so I got out the baitcaster and tossed some spoons, ended up getting two fish to the beach ;D
I saw quite a few BB when I was there but I also saw a good number of flyfishers and spoon tossers, I am sure those fishing spoons look like BB's when you see them from a boat so I think your #'s may be a bit off....
TH
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Why would DFO even consider looking at spot closures?
The last time they had spot closures it was on areas heavily hit by people bbing to minimize the impact on sockeye, there are still sockeye being impacted on this end of the river, that could be changed by closing the popular bbing bars, it worked before, this isn't the only area being hit as I was told this evening that there were over 150 people bottom bouncing in the gauntlet at peg leg this morning ( I wasn't there so this is second hand information). I'm sure STS. saw lots of bber's today when he was in Hope I counted 30 across from floods alone on the way up about three quarters of an hour before he came up and I saw his boat head down to the scales bar where there were over 35 yesterday, but for some reason he's not giving a bottom bouncer count tonight.
Even though it's nice to have all the pressure off the top end of the river a lot of people still believe it shouldn't have been opened back up without regulation changes.
The only spot closures that should happen should be for bars like peg leg. I have never fished there but I have seen pictures and man is it disgusting to see so many ignorant people out there that seem to think that it is alright to drive threw moving water just so they do not have to walk. How lazy are these people. I think that MOE should be out there and fine every single driver that goes threw there. I guess we don't have to wait for a pipe line to break to have an oil spill as I am sure there is enough oil and crap coming off of these vehicles.
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Counted 175 at Peg Leg today, not much sign of fish on the beach for the number of people.
Space between some was only 4 feet. Lots of garbage per usual, will do a cleanup later today. ::)
I ventured out to Pegleg on Monday for my first Fraser trip of the year !! I was at the top section of the bar and had about 1/2 a km to myself :) tried tossing flies to no avail, so I got out the baitcaster and tossed some spoons, ended up getting two fish to the beach ;D
I saw quite a few BB when I was there but I also saw a good number of flyfishers and spoon tossers, I am sure those fishing spoons look like BB's when you see them from a boat so I think your #'s may be a bit off....
TH
Another count by other sources counted 150 the day before so my number was not out as you mentioned.
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you are probably right... I was just thinking how much the spoon tossers look like BB from a distance, there were alot of BB at the bottom of Pegleg for sure !!
TH
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Caught bar fishing the other day, 35 pounds!
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1423/1327998822_51e3324a34_b.jpg)
The chinooks are seeing the glos no problem now...
:)
Nicole
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Caught bar fishing the other day, 35 pounds!
Nicole
And what is the chainsaw for?
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to cut the head off!
;)
Nicole
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to cut the head off!
;)
Nicole
I hope you mean the salmon!
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Who brings a chainsaw to go bar fishing :D Does that guy do those log sculptures waiting for a bite? Very nice fish though.
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Don't mess with Nicole on the river :)
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Don't mess with Nicole anywhere. :P ;)
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Who brings a chainsaw to go bar fishing :D Does that guy do those log sculptures waiting for a bite? Very nice fish though.
That guy, who happens to be my brother, does a little shortening of leaders if flossers get too close ;)
LOL
Nicole
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Nosey, the counts on Scale bar the for the long weekend are extremly low compared to when the river is open to fishing. I counted 29 and 36 on the weekend and last night at 4:30 there was only 6 or 8 left on the bar, normally that would be 100 or more anglers. Chris mentioned very few fish being caught at Peg Leg so time to go back to fishing. The whole issue was around sockeye conservation, there are no sockeye coming through so I would think that for now, we can go back to enjoying the river the way I have for the past 30 years. The FVAGA and other groups will work hard over the winter to try to deal with issues surrounding the Fraser River and BBing. If you want to have some imput, join FVSS or BCFDF or BCWF and go to meetings. Spouting off on the forums will do nothing to solve the problems.
Yes, you guys may be right about the low sockeye hookups. A firiend fished an Upper Fraser bar close to Hope for 8 hrs for spring. He reported that there was not even one sockeye hooked by anybody in the entire time. There were plenty of springs and pinks though. So sockeye run is probably nearing its end, and people should be more at peace to let others enjoy fishing in peace.
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Who brings a chainsaw to go bar fishing :D Does that guy do those log sculptures waiting for a bite? Very nice fish though.
That guy, who happens to be my brother, does a little shortening of leaders if flossers get too close ;)
LOL
Nicole
;D ;D ; or keeping us away from their fishing site. ;D ;D