Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Geff_t on August 21, 2007, 08:21:41 PM
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Here is an article that was in the local paper. They found sockeye all the way up by the dam. wow.
Sockeye DNA tested in 'Jurassic' scenario
Danna Johnson, The Times
Published: Tuesday, August 21, 2007
The Fraser River sockeye run has been labeled a disaster.
But while the fish are not showing up on the front door of the community, they are knocking on its backdoor, a place they haven't been seen for 80 years.
Last week sockeye found their way up the Alouette River, sparking Alouette River Management Society spokesman Geoff Clayton to boast a "Jurassic park" scenario is playing out in the community's backyard.
On Friday, ARMS along with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, BC Hydro, the Pacific Salmon Council and the District of Maple Ridge are preparing to hear conclusively that sockeye have returned to the Alouette.
DNA samples were taken from the fish that turned up last week, and those samples will prove, once and for all, that there was at one time a healthy salmon run in the river, and that the run can be established once more.
During the week of Aug. 13, sockeye were found in the holding pens at the Allco Fish Hatchery. Later, BC Hydro employees at the base of the dam found about 18 dead sockeye. The fish, according to Clayton, had tried unsuccessfully to reach the reservoir through the low-level outlet flow.
"They were coming up to the fence and jumping over," Clayton said, adding that the fish are skinny enough to have attempted to wiggle through. Those that jumped through the low-level outlet flow "beached themselves with their noses up against the dam," he said.
"These fish are bright, they're not mature, and it looks like they were prepared to go up into the reservoir and not spawn until October," he said.
Clayton has long suspected there was the potential for sockeye to exist in the Alouette and Coquitlam Rivers.
In spring 2005 ARMS, along with the Katzie First Nation, released 10,000 salmon fry into Alouette Lake and convinced BC Hydro to release a constant stream of water over the dam's spillway, hopefully giving the lake-spawning kokanee a chance to get from the lake to the ocean.
Clayton is convinced, though the DNA has yet to prove it, that those kokanee, now sockeye, have returned.
The returning fish are, without a doubt, sockeye, Clayton said. The only information that is not available is whether or not those sockeye have the same genetic markers as the lake-dwelling kokanee.
But Clayton, though he's waiting to make an official announcement, is undeniably optimistic.
Sure, these fish could be strays from the Fraser run, Clayton supposed, but since the Fraser runs have been low ever since the flow was increased in the Alouette Rive in 1996, he wonders why those strays would show up now.
"Sometimes when you have huge runs you have strays," he said.
And the scientists who have looked at the fish note that the timing is right, and they appear to be the right age for the 2005 returns.
"It's weird that they come back now when the other runs are in such a bad way," acknowledged Katzie First Nation Chief Diane Bailey, who called the news "exciting."
"I thought this was never going to happen. It's super," Bailey said, adding she had doubts.
Indeed, Clayton said, there were many doubts along the way.
Back in December Clayton bemoaned BC Hydro's lack of a framework to reestablish a sockeye run in the Alouette.
These days, however, his voice, along with the voice of other advocates, is being heard because the fish have returned, as Clayton suspected they would.
And should those DNA results come back positively identifying a unique Alouette River sockeye, Clayton said the implications are massive.
The Coquitlam River, he explained, is likely also a potential run.
"The headwaters of Coquitlam was damned in 1914," he said, and that system is similar to the Alouette in many ways.
"There must have been huge runs up there," he said.
With the Fraser heating up and the sockeye runs suffering as a result, Clayton said reestablishing runs in other Lower Mainland rivers is more important than ever.
"The Coquitlam and the Alouette are just a turn around the corner from the Gulf of Georgia, and (the salmon) are home.
"These Lower Mainland rivers that used to have sockeye may be the only thing we can do to help the Fraser."
The idea that the fish could be coming back, Bailey said, "makes you see a light there. Makes you see that there are some things that are OK, that not all the things that are happening are dismal."
Until the fish are scientifically proven to have originated from the Alouette, Clayton said they would not be allowed to return to the reservoir. Once the DNA results return, should it prove conclusively the fish are sockanee, a plan will be put in place to allow the fish to cross over the dam. This year, Clayton said, ARMS released between 70,000 and 90,000 fry over the dam, and if those fish return, 2009 could see "thousands" of sockeye make their way up the river.
If that occurs, he said, volunteers would "trap and truck" the fish in the river and deliver them into the reservoir manually.
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Nature works in mystery ways.
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"If that occurs, he said, volunteers would "trap and truck" the fish in the river and deliver them into the reservoir manually."
I think they meant net and truck them to the Lougheed Highway. 8)
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For once...a good news story about sockeye! They're hoping for the same results for the Coquitlam
R. with the kokanee they released from Coq. Lake reservoire.
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The DNA results came in today and they are a match, so I guess this means that they will release the fish into the lake.
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Two thumbs up !
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Hmm.... Last night i was fishing at my usual spot on the allouette. Its pretty super, i usually average 6 fish in around 2 hours. Anyways, I heard this massive fish jump. The wake it made was huge. Definatley no rock/bird/bat. Definatley a big fish, problably not a rainbow or dolly. Maybe though, i guess you never know. Possibly a sockeye ?
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Here is the lates from our local paper.
DNA tests confirm sockeye are Alouette residents
Simone Ponne/THE NEWS Alouette sockeye was released Friday back into reservoir.
By Phil Melnychuk
Staff Reporter
Aug 25 2007
The years of cautious speculation are behind them.
DNA tests and scale sampling have both confirmed, the 28 sockeye salmon that returned to the Alouette River last week are genetically identical to their landlocked cousins in the Alouette reservoir.
“It was a perfect match,” said Geoff Clayton with ARMS.
“So they are the Alouette Lake sockeye,” added Jenny Ljunggren also with ARMS.
“We are just now coming to grips with it because before, it was caution, caution, caution," Clayton added.
"Now we don’t have to be cautious and that’s pretty exciting."
The fish are the remnants of the 8,000 or so that escaped into the river in 2005 during a temporary opening of the dam’s gate.
Most of the 28 that returned died smashing into the rocks at the base of the dam and trying to get over the dam but six were caught in the holding pens at Allco hatchery and are still alive.
They were released Friday into the reservoir.
Five of the six were fitted with radio tags so researchers could see if they would spawn in the lake’s gravel beds or in the streams.
ARMS had long planned restarting a sockeye run in the Alouette and done several experiments toward proving its feasibility.
But the intent had always been to use an external donor species, most likely Pitt River sockeye.
While sockeye or kokanee stocks had increased in the lake thanks to a fertilization program intended to benefit local anglers, it had been assumed the sockeye had become kokanee, landlocked sockeye, no longer capable of surviving in salt water.
“We were told that seawater would literally be a poison,” Clayton said.
It’s just like when a human becomes institutionalized -- as if they worked for Fisheries and Oceans Canada for a long time, joked Clayton.
“You can see we’re feeling a little cheeky.”
The sockeye showed everyone, however.
They escaped the reservoir during a brief opening of the gate in 2005. After their ancestors spent 80 years in fresh water, they swam to the Pacific Ocean and returned to continue the cycle.
“This is why the story is so exciting because in science, this wasn’t projected to happen.”
It’s a scientific first, noted Ljunggren to have a run reestablished 80 years after it vanished as a result of the construction of B.C. Hydro’s Alouette dam in 1926.
Even a Seattle radio station called about the story.
As the run builds, the need for a fishway around the dam will become more apparent. Clayton said that will be up to B.C. Hydro.
“We’re not looking for B.C. Hydro to start a fishway today or tomorrow,” he said.
“Construction is up to them to address the return of those runs for the First Nations.”
The development could have implications for runs in other lakes blocked by hydro dams.
Since 2005, more sockeye have been released from the reservoir. Next year’s run should be larger. Eventually, in 20 years, the river could see a run of 60,000 sockeye.
Early this week, scientists were pretty certain it was the Alouette sockeye who were in the river.
That was based on results from scale samples on 17 fish which enabled biologists to determine the fish had left freshwater in 2005. Growth patterns also were unlike any in the lower Fraser, said Steve Latham, sockeye stock identification biologist with the Pacific Salmon Commission.
The testing was done by Department of Fisheries and Oceans Pacific biological station in Nanaimo. The salmon commission will pay for the testing.
"We nailed it on Monday basically and we got DNA to confirm it."
He pointed out Maple Ridge resident Julie Sellars actually did the scale sampling.
Because the fish already had started rotting, initial genetic sampling only was possible on 12 of the fish.
That testing showed that returning adult sockeye, the smolts which left the reservoir in 2005 and the sockeye still in the reservoir were "genetically indistinguishable."
They are however distinct from other Fraser River sockeye, Latham pointed out.
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Thats great news.
I hope that trend continues to other local rivers.
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fly_guy, one of the rare times i ENJOY the maple ridge news. A few people wrote in and said that the salmon the person was holding in the picture was a chum salmon >:(
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Yes it was a chum in the picture in the original article but in the next paper they printed a retraction. Infact the picture was not from an old file but from an early returning chum. Now that was early.
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The reason they used a chum salmon in the picture was not to stress the few remaining sockeyes with a photo shoot
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I guessing they should give the river some steadier flow if they want to allow them to take to the river again! If they don't they will still come back but die trying to get where they want to go!
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Well they made up all the way to the dam, pretty good as this is the lowest the water gets and they still made it. They died trying to get threw the low water flow pipe.
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I'll post this once, and once only. Looks can be very decieving. I've fished virtually every lake in the lower mainland, and nothing, NOTHING, compares to what im getting in the allouette river. Buntzen today, only little fish. Gone to mike lake. Little fish. Hayward, stave, honestly everywhere. Nothing compares to the allouette. I dont know what it is, but the spot i go to, is stupid. Its actually too easy to catch decent size fish. Last night i got a 3 pound coho. Ive pulled out some 2 pound rainbows. Sure there not massive, but when you get upwards of 5 a night, it all becomes worth it. The allouette is amazing. Shhh
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I'll post this once, and once only. Looks can be very decieving. I've fished virtually every lake in the lower mainland, and nothing, NOTHING, compares to what im getting in the allouette river. Buntzen today, only little fish. Gone to mike lake. Little fish. Hayward, stave, honestly everywhere. Nothing compares to the allouette. I dont know what it is, but the spot i go to, is stupid. Its actually too easy to catch decent size fish. Last night i got a 3 pound coho. Ive pulled out some 2 pound rainbows. Sure there not massive, but when you get upwards of 5 a night, it all becomes worth it. The allouette is amazing. Shhh
There's no fishing for coho salmon allowed on the Alouette between April 1st and August 31st above 216th Street, including North Alouette River.
The fisheries you are comparing are incomparable. Lakes around here such as Buntzen are stocked lakes that are supplemented by the Fraser Valley Trout Hatchery. The rainbow trout stocked in these lakes are typically between 200 and 300 grams. They do not grow much bigger due to the lack of nutrients in our coastal lakes. These fish are raised to this size before releasing and are intended for people to catch and keep, therefore the fishing is generally good for a few weeks after stocking and poor during the summer months because no stocking is done.
Streams in the Lower Mainland such as the Alouette River have both resident and anadromous trout. Most of these trout are wild, which are required to be released. The odd hatchery trout are present. The objective of hatchery programs in these small streams is different to the way local lakes are managed. There is an ongoing effort on rebuilding the trout populations in the Fraser Valley streams, which have severely declined over the years. Although hatchery marked trout (the absence of an adipose fin and the presence of a healed scar) maybe kepted, most anglers who are familiar with these programs would recommend others to release all fish to assist this ongoing effort in stock rebuilding.
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and if anyone actually believes freak then i have a bridge id like to sell them. ;)
Nice try freak. ::)
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I'll have to second what firstlight says. First the coho that do arrive in the Alouette don't arrive until usually late September, second I have never caught a rainbow in the river but have caught many cutthroat. The cutthroat are usually small in the 10-12 inch range with the odd one going to 14''. I have caught some bigger cutthroat but its rare.
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and if anyone actually believes freak then i have a bridge id like to sell them. ;)
Nice try freak. ::)
You think I want you to believe me ? I'll keep the good fishing to myself thanks
I've said it on here before, I never keep fish, regardless of what kind.
I'm almost tempted to bring a camera to show you what i catch there, but i'd rather not. You seem completley set on the fact that i dont get decent sized fish on the allouette ? 2 and 3 pound fish blow your mind ? Have you ever fished anywhere "good" ?
Ps, what are you saying "nice try" about ? I'm just curious.
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I'll have to second what firstlight says. First the coho that do arrive in the Alouette don't arrive until usually late September, second I have never caught a rainbow in the river but have caught many cutthroat. The cutthroat are usually small in the 10-12 inch range with the odd one going to 14''. I have caught some bigger cutthroat but its rare.
It was definatley a coho. It was almost chrome. Its mouth was stuck wide open and it had quite a few spots on it. Its almost september is it not ? They spawn around october or so correct ? There logically could be some running through there right now, its not that far from the ocean.
Where i go, i catch many rainbows. MOST are very small, but the odd one gets big, 2 pounds the biggest. 2 pounds on an older fish scale though, so maybe not exactly 2 ?
Cutthroat are abundant there, but there always small.
Dolly's also appear where i go as well. Very rarely though. One of my buddys got a 1 pound or so dolly.
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yes I do believe it could of been a coho. There where already a few bright crome chums as well at the Alco hatchery. Just because the main run does not get here till later there is always a chance at some early arrivals.
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Here is the latest update regarding what will be next for the sockeye in the Allouette. Sounds like hydrowants to do the right thing but seems to be very cautious regarding building a fish ladder.
B.C. Hydro will lead the way for sockeye plan
By Phil Melnychuk - Maple Ridge News - November 14, 2007 | | |
The heavy load that the friends of fish at Alouette River Management Society have been hoisting will lighten a little bit.
B.C. Hydro has agreed to take on the job of coordinating federal, volunteer and B.C. agencies in the continuing saga of restoring sockeye to the Alouette River.
"We're pleased with the results going forward. We're equally really pleased to have the salmon returned. So we've agreed, B.C. Hydro will take the lead with the agenda," Charlotte Bemister, Hydro's community relations spokesman, said Friday.
MP Randy Kamp (Pitt Meadows-Maple Ridge-Mission) set up the meeting last week so that a way could be found to start rebuilding the sockeye population, now that it's been proven the salmon in the Alouette reservoir are descendants of sockeye trapped in the lake for 80 years.
DNA tests on sockeye that returned from the ocean last summer showed they came from the lake two years previous during an unscheduled escape down the spillway.
Initially, rebuilding sockeye would involve trapping the sockeye at the base of the dam, and trucking them around it and dumping them back into the lake, where they could complete their spawning cycle.
A fishway around the dam, however, could lead sockeye directly into the lake. Unlike other salmon species, young sockeye need a year in a lake before starting their migration to the Pacific Ocean.
Bemister said Hydro has been part of the gradual scientific process of restoring sockeye to the system, citing the Hydro-funded fertilization program in the lake. That program has allowed the sockeye population to jump – creating a good base for eventual migration.
"We've been part of this from Day 1."
She said ARMS has been the lead agency but Hydro has been involved all along, adding that Hydro wants to be cautious and is not immediately committing to building a fishway.
Geoff Clayton of ARMS said the meeting wouldn't have happened without Kamp, who's parliamentary secretary to the fisheries minister.
But he also wants Kamp to encourage the Department of Fisheries and Oceans to be involved at every step.
Clayton said ARMS has applied to Hydro's coastal fish habitat restoration program for funding the next step to support a trap and truck program for the sockeye.
Total cost for that would be about $30,000 – needed for new tubs for the sockeye and a trailer to carry the fish.
Meanwhile, ARMS is already working on the step to restoring the run, doing a feasibility study for a fishway. That will be done by the Ministry of Environment, said Clayton.
The Habitat Conservation Trust Fund has given tentative approval for a $30,000 grant to fund that.