Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Geff_t on August 18, 2007, 05:04:40 PM
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This was from todays globe and mail. Pretty sad.
Natives promise to defy ban on sockeye fishing
PATRICK BRETHOUR
From Saturday's Globe and Mail
August 18, 2007 at 2:11 AM EDT
VANCOUVER — Native fishermen are vowing to head out onto the lower Fraser River this weekend to fish for sockeye salmon – defying a federal ban – in part to protest against the continuing recreational fishery.
“A few of the bands have said they're going to go out fishing,” said Ernie Crey, fisheries adviser for the Sto:lo bands in the eastern Fraser Valley. His own band, the Cheam, is considering joining that action.
The Sto:lo are angry, he said, that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans will not allow them or other bands along the Lower Fraser to fish for sockeye, but will allow anglers to ply the river until Monday. Although those recreational fishermen are not permitted to catch sockeye, the Sto:lo say that happens anyway.
“It's now common knowledge that they're killing and keeping sockeye,” Mr. Crey said.
So, today or tomorrow, according to Mr. Crey, natives in fishing boats will cast nets into the Fraser, partly as a gesture of protest and partly as a way to stock their freezers for the winter.
DFO is declining to say exactly how it will respond to such a move. “We'll monitor that situation, and depending on the circumstances, we'll take appropriate action,” said Paul Ryall, head of the department's salmon team.
However, B.C. Conservative MP John Cummins, an outspoken critic of federal fisheries policy, said he believes that fisheries officials will not intervene – even though they should – to protect the sockeye stocks. “They can't tolerate this sort of behaviour,” he said. “But by past performance, [intervention] hasn't happened.”
At the root of the dispute is a stunning collapse in the size of this year's runs of sockeye on the Fraser, and the resulting plummet in the size of the allowable catch. No one is certain why the population has declined so much, but the warm oceans of four years ago are thought to have reduced food sources and increased predators. As a result, there will be no commercial fishery for sockeye this year, and aboriginal bands that last year harvested close to a million fish will be limited to just 180,000. Already, 100,000 fish have been caught, with DFO deciding late Thursday to open fisheries only upstream of Sawmill Creek, north of Hope, and then only until tomorrow evening.
The recreational fishery will remain open until midnight tomorrow. Although the Sto:lo and other native bands are upset that it will not be closed sooner, the DFO's Mr. Ryall said an immediate closing is impractical, and that the department typically tries to give 48-hour notice. A decision was made late Thursday, and a formal notice given Friday morning, with the fishery closing more than 60 hours later.
Donald Sam, fisheries co-ordinator for the Nlaka'Pamux, said he could not say what the effect of unauthorized fishing downstream would be on his bands' legal fishing efforts. But he said the Nlaka'Pamux plan to comply with DFO directives.
Mr. Ryall said there will be a relatively small number of fish caught legally in the Upper Fraser this weekend, around 3,000 sockeye.
What will happen on the Lower Fraser with illegal boats and nets is unclear. Mr. Crey said he's not sure how many native fishermen will head out this weekend. But he is certain that the tide of anger toward the DFO is rising. “The whole community along the lower river is in turmoil right now.”
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I would love to say some things about this but..... Just one question? Is Ernie Cray along with other bands using what "may" be happening further up river as a reason to illegally fish the Lower? :-[
I was out tossing Spoons this morning and didn't see any nets where I was, but this isn't where they would usually be anyways so who knows....
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If they are there I will be down there throwing logs and other debris into the water, we should all do this.
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I'll be on the water in the lower tomorow, port mann to alex fraser... the pirate flag will be up >:(
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I will be checking the mouth of the stave as they usually like to tie them to the pillars of the train tracks. Lumber yard close by. A few off cuts maybe released from the bridge ;D .
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Do you all forget the law case to get the sportys off the river?
The F/N lost that case. They have now won this one.
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Throw in small dead trees and large branches, they will tangle very easily. remember the more branches the better.
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As I posted elsewhere FOC was seizing nets today and are out in full force today.
It is a sad situation that some people in at least two sectors donot want to realize there is a conservation concern for our sockeye stocks and donot want to do their part to help them reach their natal streams to spawn this season.
Word has been circulating today that some people want to stage a protest on Monday.
In my mind this will do them no good and just make matters worse for all, the public is well aware through the print and TV media there is a conservation concern and will show them no sympathy.
I am sure some will disagree with this post and that is their right to do so but as I said a few weeks ago changes were coming that would affect I us, that day has now arrived or will on Monday. :(
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Who is planning on protesting, the natives, or sports anglers?
And what is the platform?
Thanks!
Nicole
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Who is planning on protesting, the natives, or sports anglers?
And what is the platform?
Thanks!
Nicole
I am just getting the information second hand Nicole but I was told it was the ones that use a fishing rod, that is all I know.
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DFO has just posted an amendment banning all trees, logs twigs and branches from being discarded into the fraser. This has taken affect at 12:00 Saturday evening. We must conserve the limited amount of logs and branches still resting on the shore. There has been a decline in the amount available due to campfires being allowed all year in local campsites. Chief Stanley Tree is warning about a shortage of trees affecting the traditional smoking of sockeye. For those of you who can not recognize this its called satire. A literary work in which human vice or folly is attacked through irony, derision, or wit. Please do not take seriously. Seriously though very good plan I will partake but beware there is probably or probably will be a law against it. Cheers, do what you can thats all you can do. I need to get out fishing I'm going nuts.
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I saw Mr. crey on the news saying that some of the fn communities need sockey for the protein to get through winter.I guess other stocks such as pinks don't have any protein. :o So I guess now they will defy the ban and keep taking as many as they can,instead of letting them all get to the spawning grounds.And then when there is none left who's to blame? :'(
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DFO has just posted an amendment banning all trees, logs twigs and branches from being discarded into the fraser. This has taken affect at 12:00 Saturday evening. We must conserve the limited amount of logs and branches still resting on the shore. There has been a decline in the amount available due to campfires being allowed all year in local campsites. Chief Stanley Tree is warning about a shortage of trees affecting the traditional smoking of sockeye.
;D ;D
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Chris makes a good point. The general public is aware that there is a problem with the sockeye run sizes, and will not be sympathetic to illegal fishing by either the first nations or the sport fishermen. The protest fishery will be accompanyied by fisheries officers and the rcmp. The first nations are trying to make a point that all recreational fishing should be stopped in both the fraser river and the saltchuck until they are able to get their food fish. Their intent is to get the issue into the supreme court and force a review of the previous provincial court decision. Sport fishermen should not get in the middle of that fight by staging their own protest, there is nothing to gain and a lot of credibility to lose. Best to stay on the sidelines and watch nets get seized, then prepare to have the sfab request to be an intervener into the trial.
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Probably the same group of people who a few years back caused the disapperance of a million fish. They are not going to stop the sockeye $$$ machine until hell freezes over. Talking conservaton concern with them is a waste of time. Tough enforcement is the ticket to solve the race based non-sense. But this country lacks the will to set things right due to white guilt. Sigh. :(
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They need the protein to make it through the winter? This seems very hypocritical to me. Although, I am naive to the ways of the FN, I am familiar with American Indians. I have heard similar things from them in the past as McDonald's wrappers fall out of their cars. Right or wrong, most tribes in Washington State are not solely reliant on their historical ways for sustenance. They take vitamins, drink milk out of a carton, smoke Marlboro's and use vaccine's.
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As I posted elsewhere FOC was seizing nets today and are out in full force today.
It is a sad situation that some people in at least two sectors donot want to realize there is a conservation concern for our sockeye stocks and donot want to do their part to help them reach their natal streams to spawn this season.
Word has been circulating today that some people want to stage a protest on Monday.
In my mind this will do them no good and just make matters worse for all, the public is well aware through the print and TV media there is a conservation concern and will show them no sympathy.
I am sure some will disagree with this post and that is their right to do so but as I said a few weeks ago changes were coming that would affect I us, that day has now arrived or will on Monday. :(
I hope they do not go through with at as I think it's a very bad idea. It will only make us look bad and help to give the natives justification for fishing during a closed period. If FN continues to keep socks and DFO does nothing then that's something to protest about but for a change it sounds like DFO is doing there part. I can see how some might be pissed off that the natives got an opening and we didn't even get a short one but I still think it will only hinder our opportunities in the long run.
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As I posted elsewhere FOC was seizing nets today and are out in full force today.
It is a sad situation that some people in at least two sectors donot want to realize there is a conservation concern for our sockeye stocks and donot want to do their part to help them reach their natal streams to spawn this season.
Word has been circulating today that some people want to stage a protest on Monday.
In my mind this will do them no good and just make matters worse for all, the public is well aware through the print and TV media there is a conservation concern and will show them no sympathy.
I am sure some will disagree with this post and that is their right to do so but as I said a few weeks ago changes were coming that would affect I us, that day has now arrived or will on Monday. :(
I hope they do not go through with at as I think it's a very bad idea. It will only make us look bad and help to give the natives justification for fishing during a closed period. If FN continues to keep socks and DFO does nothing then that's something to protest about but for a change it sounds like DFO is doing there part. I can see how some might be pissed off that the natives got an opening and we didn't even get a short one but I still think it will only hinder our opportunities in the long run.
Good post, wouldn't it be great if all sectors could get together with FOC and work out a fishing plan where everyone could share in this wonderful resourse.
If I was younger and smarter I would give it a try. Maybe I should run for politics instead. ;D ;D ;D
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I don't think your old or stupid enough to be a politician yet. Get out in the sun without a hat for a few more years then give it a try. The sports fisheries credibility is pretty badly damaged now by it's inabilty to police itself when given a chance, I hope nobody goes out.
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DFO has just posted an amendment banning all trees, logs twigs and branches from being discarded into the fraser. This has taken affect at 12:00 Saturday evening. We must conserve the limited amount of logs and branches still resting on the shore. There has been a decline in the amount available due to campfires being allowed all year in local campsites. Chief Stanley Tree is warning about a shortage of trees affecting the traditional smoking of sockeye. For those of you who can not recognize this its called satire. A literary work in which human vice or folly is attacked through irony, derision, or wit. Please do not take seriously. Seriously though very good plan I will partake but beware there is probably or probably will be a law against it. Cheers, do what you can thats all you can do. I need to get out fishing I'm going nuts.
Now that is funny.........................but beliveable from DFO
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Not sure how catching sockeye, to sell from the trunks of cars, can be considered a "Food Fishery"
It's a good thing the F/N are such responsible stewards of "their" lands ::)
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They need the protein to make it through the winter?
But of course, sockeye costs $5 /lb while chum and pink are $2/lb. For $5 you can buy a lot more beef. There is your protein.
You see. ;)
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Not sure how catching sockeye, to sell from the trunks of cars, can be considered a "Food Fishery"
It's a good thing the F/N are such responsible stewards of "their" lands ::)
Good to hear from you BJ, you were one of the orignals on FWR I believe. Hope to see more posts from you.
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I saw the 6 oclock news on global tonight and they had a story showing the natives getting caught netting today. Now when they showed the catch in the boat I got a little disturbed. There in clear few entangled in the net was a small sturgeon. They also showed DFO giving out tickets to appear in court. They also did an interview with Fred Helmer about the financial losses and the small impact that the rec group have on the fish. I hope they show it again at 11. I am going to e-mail global to see if their reporter even noticed the sturgeon in the boat.
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At least we are talking about it. On some fishing forums, if you mention "Natives" and "Fish" in the same thread, it will get deleted.
Talk about hiding your head in the sand. ::)
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for future news watching, all newscasts are archived here:
http://www.canada.com/globaltv/national/video/index.html
Cheers,
Nicole
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Oh this is so rich. Well, we asked for it, now the local economies will suffer, and the natives will have a hay day getting all the fish they want. The tribes further up-river will also be poaching to the n'th degree to make sure they get their protein too. The laws in this country are a joke because they are never enforced. Does anyone actually believe these FN fisherman give a rip about having to appear in court for their slap on the wrist. Sure the public won't have any sympathy for them , but the government we elected will do nothing about it , and our choices for an elected government acting responsibly by enforcement with whatever means necessary will likely never happen. SAD! SAD! SAD! :-[
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Protein!?! There's something called beef, pork, poultry. Oh and not that traditional rap about 'oh fish has been our tradition'. Those natives might have forgotten, they did not came from rocks and just appear by Fraser and start fishing for sockeye. THEY IMMIGRATED HERE!!! They only starts to fish for sockeye a few thousand years back. As their ancestors were nomads in nature. ADAPT. Stop the ridiculous statement as those are traditions.
If they want traditions, do as they preach, with traditional fishing method ONLY.
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"Protein!?! There's something called beef, pork, poultry. Oh and not that traditional rap about 'oh fish has been our tradition'. Those natives might have forgotten, they did not came from rocks and just appear by Fraser and start fishing for sockeye. THEY IMMIGRATED HERE!!! They only starts to fish for sockeye a few thousand years back. As their ancestors were nomads in nature. ADAPT. Stop the ridiculous statement as those are traditions.
If they want traditions, do as they preach, with traditional fishing method ONLY."
Bingo, and they should fish with a canoe and spear,(like to see that on some parts of the Fraser) if they want the food for cerimony. I don't think they had 25 foot jet boats and high tech nets back in the old days now did they? But we, as a bleeding heart society will continue to do "what's politically correct" won't we! >:( >:( >:(
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Took a drive from just above Island 22 to The Agassiz Rosedale Bridge this afternoon and saw no fishing activity at all from anyone except except for a dad casting out a rod for his kids fishing for pike minnows.
Actually it was an eerie silence out there, a silence that I have not heard on the Fraser for a long time, no boat activity at all. Boat launches were mostly empty.
I also was disturbed by the amount of garbage left behind by the weekend campers. How I wish we had the man power to clean it up but we have our hands full working on the Chilliwack Vedder.
Would be a good project for someone to take on and head up.
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keepers of the land ::) more like reapers of the land. >:(
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Drift netis it's less of a problem releasing non-targeted fish. But setnets, is totally different. Especailly left over a long time. Fish would have sufficated and died.
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Nice too see the Katzie band will find another food source other then sockeye.
Katzie to respect fish ban, says chief
Danna Johnson, The Times; With files from The Province
Published: Tuesday, August 21, 2007
Katzie First Nation Chief Diane Bailey is not interested in having the last of the Fraser River's sockeye.
While the Cheam First Nation conducted a protest fishery between Mission and Hope over the weekend, Bailey said the boats of her band members remained idle, and all members were instructed to respect the ban.
About 6.3 million sockeye were expected to return to the Fraser this year, and so far only 1.6 million have shown up. As a result of the devastating return, the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans banned natives from fishing sockeye and Chinook in the lower Fraser, but permitted recreational sports fishermen on the water until midnight Sunday. Sports fishermen are also banned from reeling in sockeye, but according to Ernie Crey, a senior advisor to the Sto:lo Tribal council which represents several bands along the Fraser, those sports fishermen are illegally "catching and killing sockeye."
It really is bad news," he said. "Most of the aboriginal communities along the Fraser are small and impoverished and they really depend on sockeye to maintain themselves through the winter."
While Bailey admits salmon is a staple for many of her band members, they can make do without if it means preserving the sockeye run for future generations.
"A lot of people think we as natives live on fish. We don't," she told The TIMES.
"It is a high part of our diet, and commercial-wise, it has been the livelihood of this band," she said, but those times are long gone.
Several years back when the runs were strong, Bailey said there were more than double the number of fishing boats attached to the Katzie wharf, both in Pitt Meadows and on Barnston Island, has shrunk by half.
"I've got four sons, and thank God that's not all they depend on," Bailey said, though she added fishing is difficult to give up. Her father was a fisherman, she said: "It's something that's in you."
But no matter how much they may want to be out on the water, Bailey said she has told her members of the ban and they are respecting it.
"There is no fishing. I can't see going out there and killing off what little there is coming back."
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"There is no fishing. I can't see going out there and killing off what little there is coming back."
Glad to see other First Nations realize the predicament that all user groups are in.
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I am so sick of this crap every year the natives say that it is there wright to fish for food!! ??? but then they sell them >:(
They are all about there rights but what about are rights you think the government cares about us NO the natives take and take and never think about conservation if they keep going like this they will run out of fish and then what we will have to give them more money >:( Its time the government got some balls and said if you want to live in this country then pay taxes and follow the laws and live like the rest of us. don't get me wrong I know that not all natives are like this but come on enough is enough
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The SDA is meeting in a few days as they continue to work for a level playing field.
With the currant situation the hope is to attract more directors, help and financial support.
Some of us old directors are getting tired and would like to have more time to get away and fish instead of attending meetings, holding fundraisers etc.. It not only takes a fair amount from ones pocket book attending meeting, going to and preparing for events like the Abbotsford Sportsman show and other SDA duties. Of course lots of people do the same for their clubs but a lot of people do not and sit behind a computer and complain what should be done. Now is the time to help out in one way or another
The SDA's lawyer will be giving an update on the current court cases and those that lie ahead. Of course the current closure on the Fraser will be on the agenda.
I can not attend this one so I will not be able to report first hand to you on the out come as I have some other meetings I have to attend that are happening at the same and that I was committed to before this one was called.
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Well it looks like in D.F.O.' great wisdom they have given the natives another opening this weekto catch sockeye. So instead of making sure the bump of fish that have come in makes it to thier spawning ground's they letting the natives catch them. I hope D.F.O.'s fish manegment dept has made the right desicon on this one by letting this run be caught..:(
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I got a report of someone close to me being offered sockeye for sale over the last two days...
Ceremonially stupid.
Nicole
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hey Nicole did they report it. If not did they get info so that they can.
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Just a question, didnt some of the native bands in the last few years negoiate with the government to be able to sell their catch? I thought I heard something but do not know for sure. Thanks
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hey Nicole did they report it. If not did they get info so that they can.
Yep they did... Cheam band... SUPRISE!!
Cheers,
Nicole
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Thanks
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hey Nicole did they report it. If not did they get info so that they can.
Yep they did... Cheam band... SUPRISE!!
Cheers,
Nicole
Tell them great job on the reporting Nicole.
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This is from my local paper and it shows that it is not just the cheam band that defied the fishing ban. This article shows which bands got ticketed.
Illegal fishery nets charges
By Jeff Nagel
Black Press
Aug 22 2007
Aboriginal fishermen from three different bands now face charges of illegally fishing after heading out on the Fraser River to catch sockeye salmon over the weekend in contravention of a fishing ban.
Protest fisheries were conducted by the Musqueam, Chehalis and Cheam bands that stretch from Vancouver to Chilliwack. Charges were laid against about 35 native harvesters, mostly Musqueam members, according to the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.
DFO acting area director Mel Kotyk said the bands took only a token number of sockeye and seemed mainly intent on triggering charges to push the issue before the courts.
“They have a message they’re trying to deliver,” he said. “If they decide to go out and do more protest fisheries we’ll continue on with our enforcement action.”
Aboriginal leaders on the lower Fraser are angry sports anglers were permitted to keep fishing for chinook salmon – and potentially hooking sockeye as well – until Sunday night while their people were to be sidelined.
“We’re out of the water and we’re looking at anglers killing sockeye,” Sto:lo fishery adviser Ernie Crey said, noting that after conservation, aboriginal bands have first priority to salmon ahead of all other users.
Federal fishery officials, who announced the sports fishing shut-down late Thursday, had said a delay was needed to get out word of the angling closure.
Some aboriginal boats headed out on the river Friday evening and caught sockeye or chinook over the weekend until the sports fishing ban took effect.
Commercial fishing was ruled out this summer because just a quarter of the 6.4 million sockeye expected to return are showing up.
The angling shut-down applies between Mission and Hope but may be lifted around Labour Day after most sockeye have passed.
Native bands have already caught 100,000 Fraser sockeye in their constitutionally protected food fisheries.
DFO has determined there’s another 80,000 sockeye that can be safely caught while ensuring enough spawn, but they will be allocated to other bands upstream of Hope.
Aboriginal food fishing normally nets a million Fraser sockeye in a more typical year. Crey said some bands may go out again.
“It wouldn’t surprise me if some of the bands planned another fishery,” he said.
Federal Fisheries Minister Loyola Hearn appealed for calm on the river, while vowing DFO will take “appropriate enforcement action” if there’s more illegal fishing.
“It is very important for all groups and individuals to respect the fishery closures,” he said. “We are all troubled by low numbers of sockeye returning to the Fraser this year.”
Sports fishery pegged at $20M
Angling guides say they’re increasingly worried their industry is getting squeezed off the water by aboriginal pressure.
“We believe we’re off the river due to the demands of First Nations,” said Rod Clapton of the BC Federation of Drift Fishers.
“We’re concerned this is a precedent being established for the future.”
He was reacting to the closure of sports fishing on part of the Fraser as of Sunday night, and aboriginal protest fisheries staged over the weekend because some bands were angry anglers didn’t have to stop sooner.
Anglers were fishing for chinook, but concerns had grown that some were catching too many sockeye as well.
Clapton said any sockeye that die after being caught and released are minimal, amounting to at most five per cent. The sport fishing industry is worth more than $20 million a year on the lower Fraser, he said.
“To shut down a multi-million dollar industry and trade that off for a very, very miniscule number of sockeye doesn’t make sense. For many of our members, it’s their livelihood.”
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hey Nicole did they report it. If not did they get info so that they can.
Yep they did... Cheam band... SUPRISE!!
Cheers,
Nicole
See, what they should have done was, to arrange a delivery/meeting, and had the fish delivered either to an MP's residence, or to their place and have video cameras set up to film the entire exchange for the media. ;)
Defying closures? Silly them... They should have not wasted their time for that, since the return estimates have been upgraded and they are out happily fishing today. ;D I had the best seat in the house today while watching one guy drinking away during the net soak time, and tossing every can into the drink so there was a line of these shiny metallic floats drifting away with the tide. ;) I thought everyone knows that one should not pee in the water that you drink? ;D
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First Nations deserve a good amount of Pinks, if they are in the numbers that can sustain it. I'd hate to see Ernie starving at the side of the river :'( They should be able to sell some too if the numbers are there.
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hey Nicole did they report it. If not did they get info so that they can.
Yep they did... Cheam band... SUPRISE!!
Cheers,
Nicole
See, what they should have done was, to arrange a delivery/meeting, and had the fish delivered either to an MP's residence, or to their place and have video cameras set up to film the entire exchange for the media. ;)
Defying closures? Silly them... They should have not wasted their time for that, since the return estimates have been upgraded and they are out happily fishing today. ;D I had the best seat in the house today while watching one guy drinking away during the net soak time, and tossing every can into the drink so there was a line of these shiny metallic floats drifting away with the tide. ;) I thought everyone knows that one should not pee in the water that you drink? ;D
How come you did get the tins for me. ;D ;D
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150ft from shore, 40ft deep, 1ft visibility, 8ft tidal difference... vs. 80c of tins... :o