Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: chris gadsden on July 27, 2007, 05:55:45 PM
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For those that may be interested there is an article in today's Chilliwack Progress titled "Anglers take on ethics debate. ;D ;D
For those that donot get the Chilliwack Progress I would think it should be up on the paper's web page in the next day or so.
Of course most of the regular readers of this subject will have a pretty good idea what the article will say as it comes from the Chilliwack River Watershed Strategy Committee report that was posted a couple of weeks ago on this web site. ;D ;D ;D
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Are you trying to start another flossing debate? ;) What is holding our fishery back from banning this type of fishing? Is it because of the money our province would lose if we did end this style of fishing?
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Fishing's fishing. A rod, line and hook. Any method can catch any type of fish just the difference in frequency.
More important issue than fishing method: illegal netting/fishing, double dipping, not using proper release technique.
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It was a good article. I do agree that double dipping is a real problem out here also, I know of a few good fishermen that on occasion have let greed convince them that it's ok during. Some still don't even know that they were spotted.
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Are you trying to start another flossing debate? ;) What is holding our fishery back from banning this type of fishing? Is it because of the money our province would lose if we did end this style of fishing?
Not at all, just making you aware of an article on this topic is now getting out to the general public.
There is no need to debate it on any forum as that has been done enough and there is nothing new that can be added.
This issue is now moving to another level. ;D ;D ;D
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A good article Chris, hopefully the move to another level happens quickly.
I believe MOE and FOC are seeing what this type of activity is creating and the hope is we donot see a sockeye opening this year, in 2008, 2009 and ever again. ;D
This will help bring things back to normal in the fishing fraternity.
Thanks to you, with your article, the fishing clinic you put on, it got the ball rolling.
Now the trick is to keep things rolling rolling, rolling right along ;D ;D ;D. Gosh training camp is not that far away, to learn proper fishing techniques that is. ;D ;D ;D Now that is a low blow. ::) Sort of good to be back on the forum after another succesful fishing trip with 2 jacks springs and one nice adult, should write the journal. :)
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Article was not posted Chilliwack Progress online. May send a scanned copy to Rodney if he wishes to post same.
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Post it up ;)
Cheers
Nuggy
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Hi Fisherforever, your photobucket account is private. So the link is no good, unless everyone can loging to your account. :D
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Sent it to Rodney maybe he can make it work. ;D ;D
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Post it up ;)
Cheers
Nuggy
E - mailing it to you. ;D ;D
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Post it up ;)
Cheers
Nuggy
E - mailing it to you. ;D ;D
Cool, Thanks Chris :)
Cheers
Nuggy
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You know, I think the city of chilliwack can address this issue the same way that Grow Ops have been addressed...
Make certain infractions a bylaw in the city... 200.00 fine, and therefore no need for endless paperwork to write one ticket.
-Barbed hook use
-Snagging, lining, flossing
-Keeping a foul hooked fish
-Belly hunting
-Mishandling of fish to be released
We could each be hired by the city to write tickets. I'd happily take commisions off that!
Cheers,
-Nicole
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guess you guys just don't follow your own advice, once again.
Bottom bouncing is a perfectly legal technique to catch fish. You try to squash the debate by saying lets not discuss it anymore as its pointless and low and behold you start it all over again.
Even mark peddleton uses bottom bouncing to catch fish. Just watched a show from the indian river and guess what there's Mark showing you how to bottom bounce.
second. all these wild exaggeration give the idea that everyone but the elitist few is snagging and bonking illegal fish. Blowing everything way out of proportion to get their own agendas rammed down peoples throats.
Example
I have been to the limit hole 3 times the past week watching and fishing the opposite site (float fishing). I made following notes.
1. last saturday I and 2 friends were there for 6 hours we saw 15 chinook hooked and 8 landed only one was in the top dorsal fin and it was released. 6 sockeye were hooked ALL released. There 4 fisherman using bottom bouncing spending a lot of time tying up. total fisherman seen 23.
2. Last tuesday spent 3 hours went by myself, saw 9 chinook hooked, 5 landed NONE were foul hooked, but 3 of the ones lost were foul hooked (jumped and saw where wool was)
3 sockeye hooked and released 4 lost. One was snagged in mid section (it jumped clear out of the water) rest couldn't tell. only 2 fisherman were bottom bouncing
3. went yesterday for for 4 hours, saw 3 chinnok hooked 2 landed 5 sockeye hooked 2 landed and released saw no foul hooked fish. only 1 guy was bottom bouncing
So from my observations, I see foul hooked fish yes but they are mostly lost in the current, its very difficult to land a foul hooked fisjh in that water. I have not seen anyone bonk and foul hooked fish or a sockeye ( all year). Since these are some of the busiest times. I conclude that yes there are a few that snag and bonk fish, keep sockeye, but the MAJORITY of fisherman are doing the proper thing and its time that people stop blowing things out of proportion in order to get their own personal agenda's and crusades across.
So as with all special interest groups they select the 1% that are doing illegal things and blow it up to sound like the whole world is doing it.
for example, If it does come to closing down the Vedder river to fishing , Anyone want to take a bet that the first thing these same guys do is get it open as a fly fishing river only!!
I for one are sick and tired of these special interest groups with their exaggerations and fear mongering, and its time that the balance is restored.
I suggest if you are really serious about preserving fish forget about the minority and go for the majority. The native nets are in the river, saw three set nets and two drift nets.
Do you know how many fish these drift nets catch and you're concentrating on a couple of illegally bonked sockeye. give me a break.!!! Get off your backsides and go after the real culprits that catch large amounts of sockeye illegally. Where's all the indignation and protest about that.
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Glog, I've been observing the fishing techniques being used at the limits hole and downstream to below the cement slab and if you call that fishing your idea of what fishing is is quite different than mine. If you think that long line snagging is OK then have at it. If you think that these fish are not being snagged check the number of fish in the hatchery with hooks in them. Explain to me why the majority of anglers I observed are fishing with 10' of float depth in 4 -5' of water? These fish will bite no question , and if fished using proper techniques can be caught legally.
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Glog, I've been observing the fishing techniques being used at the limits hole and downstream to below the cement slab and if you call that fishing your idea of what fishing is is quite different than mine. If you think that long line snagging is OK then have at it. If you think that these fish are not being snagged check the number of fish in the hatchery with hooks in them. Explain to me why the majority of anglers I observed are fishing with 10' of float depth in 4 -5' of water? These fish will bite no question , and if fished using proper techniques can be caught legally.
Thanks buck, we are going to check that later toiday.
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To me fishing ethics debate doesn't do much to protect fish.
It's all about the oldest human trait of believing that everyone should do as they do.
Whether you floss them, use a shotgun to tear them to pieces, blow them up with dynamite, use rat poison to poison them,
the bottom line is this:
- We are all allowed to fish when we pay a license fee.
- We all have the same limits of the number of fish we are allowed to catch per day.
So a flosser may spend 1 hour to catch 2 fish because his technique is successful. Perhaps "unethical".
On the other hand a so called "ethical fisherman" will need to spend 5 hours to catch the 2 fish because his technique is less successful.
At the end of the day the tally is 4 fish by law for the 2 fisherman regardless of the method.
Time and method are irrelevant. 4 fish were plucked out of the water and they will not reproduce.
The DFO is outlawing certain methods of fishing because they believe it will help conserve fish.
But somehow fish stock are declining anyway.
Who cares if I use a bow and arrow or a spear to catch it.
Police should jail people for serious offences not slap them with tickets.
Who cares about a $200 fine, People will just make more money and budget $200 more a month for the fines.
The number of times they will catch the offenders is small, it will pay off in the end.
THE PROBLEM IS THERE ARE TOO MANY FISHERMEN AND TOO LITTLE FISH.
It's so easy to catch fish these days. So much knowledge going around, so many fishing guides, boats, fish finders and fish haven't learned space flight to be able to escape to the moon.
If you want to protect salmon, stop fishing it and do some research into how you can help raise enough fish to feed the demand while leaving the wild stock alone.
Obviously current fish farming is doing a lot of "collateral damage" but they are just trying to fill the demand.
They should find a better way to farm salmon and fishermen should be the first to help.
Animals that were domesticated for food during human evolution thrived better than those in the wild.
P.S.
(In no way do I promote the above mentioned methods of fishing or breaking the law and I have no affiliations to any fish related industry.
I am simply a concerned individual just as all of you are.)
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Adriaticum, what you said may be true, but at what point do you draw a line in the sand and stand up for the fish? If one is really concerned about the resource it had better be sooner than later or be prepared to take up golf. The one positive to all the long liners, snaggers or flossers is that these guys will be hard pressed to ever catch steelhead , especially during periods of higher flows. Oh and by the way I have seen ethical fishing methods out perform other methods that have been mentioned.
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The usual banter again. I realized some people on here are political hacks. Who are silently (haha) promoting there political parties latest boon doggling of the fishing resource. Molruney started the race base fishing and sat while the cod stocks back east disappeared. Harper tries to keep the vote of some of his followers by addressing the native fishery. Some on here see closing the Sockeye to recreational angling as the answer to this concern somehow. In the past the natives and the commies kept complaining of recs getting there minor amount of fish, while they devastate the resource with nets. I guess thats the outcome of misguided people playing politics with everyones resource. Then no one buys licenses and the government puts even less money into protecting whats left. While the poachers and netters finish off the last of the stock. Too bad really and don't say it hasn't or isn't happening now. Give yourself a big pat on the back. Not trying to start another debate just pointing out what some people try to hide.
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Good posts Buck. Guys will try and deflect and whitewash. The fact remains that angling is turning ugly and its true meaning is being lost among greed, stubborness and the general twisting of sport angling.
Nicole, Id do it for free!! :)
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b69/LaForge_/scan-2.jpg)
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b69/LaForge_/scan1.jpg)
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Not sure why it's distorted on here. I put it up on another forum and it showed at full scale. ???
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FWR has a picture size limit. If the pic is to big, it automatically resizes the pic down to the maximun allowable size. ;)
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Oh, makes sense, thanks DMW 8)
I've provided a link to full size.
(http://www.screamingreels.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2067)
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Oh, makes sense, thanks DMW 8)
I've provided a link to full size.
(http://www.screamingreels.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2067)
No problem, and great idea in giving a link to a site where eveyone can see how far out there some people really are about this topic!! ;D ;)
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;) :-* ;) :-* ;) :-*
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put the hold on the ethics thing. something needs to be done NOW to fix that maple leaf thing in the pic :D
oh and are they actually drifting or just holding their rods and looking uber cool ;D
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put the hold on the ethics thing. something needs to be done NOW to fix that maple leaf thing in the pic :D
oh and are they actually drifting or just holding their rods and looking uber cool ;D
;D ;D ;D
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Now its long line fishing with floats that is a problem. I thought it was bottom bouncing. Next it will be all methods accept fly fishing.
As for the fish in the hatchery with hooks in them, of course I've seen them also seen lots of chum and coho in fall with flys in them. I've collected many flys from chum in the fall to add to my collection. The good news is the fish survived to get to the hatchery. and this confirms my point earlier that nearly all the snagged chinook I've seen, rarely make it to shore due to their size and the fast water, and when they do most are released back into the water.
Snagging occurs both deliberate and accidental, the main beef I have is that the illegal activities such as keeping snagged salmon are totally blown out of proportion by the guys with the special agendas. The numbers of illegally snagged fish that are kept are minimal when compared to those that are landed and hooked in the mouth. its the same with the chinook and sockeye on the Fraser. The minority of illegal fishing actions is been blown out of proportion in order to creat sensationalism and force special interest groups agendas on the majority.
By the way I don't see the same outrage about the nets in the fraser, south side of scales bar on saturday there were two set nets left overnight. If the sockeye are so endangered why is this allowed. One of the nets was brought in and I saw 11 sockeye landed which is more sockeye that I've seen caught AND RELEASED by the infamous bottom bouncers.
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I think it is pretty sad when a few noisy "Elitists" can have many unproved " Heresays" published in a newspaper, Bashing a type of fishing that is not illegal !!! promoting a type of fishing that they happen to enjoy !! ::) using the scare tactic that the recreational fisherman is having a devastating effect on fish numbers when we all know that is not the case !!
pretty scary if you ask me !!!!
TH
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Whats with the picture of those 3 guy's hogging that spot 8) Shouldn't they rotate.
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Whats with the picture of those 3 guy's hogging that spot 8) Shouldn't they rotate.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Rick and that's just the beginning. ;) Maybe you could promote all the 'good things' you feel comes from this instead of whining about those who have a concern and are utilizing their right to share it. Nothing's stopping you any more than nothing's stopping me.
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I think it is pretty sad when a few noisy "Elitists" can have many unproved " Heresays" published in a newspaper, Bashing a type of fishing that is not illegal !!! promoting a type of fishing that they happen to enjoy !! ::) using the scare tactic that the recreational fisherman is having a devastating effect on fish numbers when we all know that is not the case !!
pretty scary if you ask me !!!!
TH
What is scary is your attitude my friend, these guys are not elitists, they fish with a float and allow a fish the choice of to bite or not to bite.
What is elitist about that?
Nicole
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Exactly Nicole. That's scary.
I dont know how these guys get off calling such people "elitists". Where did that come from? I guess if we're going to incorporate snagging into sport angling, then the ones who spend time and skill to get a bite must suddenly now be elitist. ::) ::) ::) ::)
I say again, scary. >:(
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I think it is pretty sad when a few noisy "Elitists" can have many unproved " Heresays" published in a newspaper, Bashing a type of fishing that is not illegal !!! promoting a type of fishing that they happen to enjoy !! ::) using the scare tactic that the recreational fisherman is having a devastating effect on fish numbers when we all know that is not the case !!
pretty scary if you ask me !!!!
TH
What is scary is your attitude my friend, these guys are not elitists, they fish with a float and allow a fish the choice of to bite or not to bite.
What is elitist about that?
Nicole
Nicole "my friend" the scary part is .... an article full of "beliefs" and "theories" was published as "facts" ... in this world that is a big NO NO !!!
and as for your fishing with floats comment .. it goes much deeper than that !! they also refer to BB the Fraser !!! calling one method of fishing Snagging when in fact nobody has ever proven that !!! get a camera down there and prove to everyone that the fish are in fact NOT biting and maybe there would be something to back the claims up !! until then the false claims and scare tactics need to STOP !!!!!
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I think the problem is your incorporating too many things into what "You" consider "unethical"!!!! Bottom bouncing is a term for your weight ticking along the bottom down here....How is that unethical? Short floating is only one method of fishing..It to me is old fashioned and out of date...to preach it's the only way to fish is IMO elitist... That's what bothers me on this subject.... I'm sick of reading how guys are" ticking bottom and then adjusting their floats to be just off that and fishing 18" leaders"....and then showing pictures of steelhead they SNAGGED with the roe bag uncrushed and the hook on the outside of the mouth....pure b.s. ( but that's been shown enough on 2:40's site ;D)
We are fighting a war among st ourselves over what is deemed "ethical" by a select group...What we really need to be concerned with is not division but pulling all angling groups togeather to stand up as one...Whether it be fly, float, etc. Your resources are going fast and your pissing into the wind over leader length. We catch the fewest amount of fish and yet spent the most for local economy's etc. We aren't heard because everyone is always pointing at someone else as the cause...That's the real problem in a IMHO..
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get a camera down there and prove to everyone that the fish are in fact NOT biting and maybe there would be something to back the claims up !! until then the false claims and scare tactics need to STOP !!!!!
That's a good idea, why don't you do that? Make sure to get the camera right in close to show the hook on the inside of the mouth (as a seamless unedited raw piece of video), and I bet these guys will back off.
Cheers,
Nicole
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I've seen a few Steelhead flossed on Spey Rods. I guess since it wasn't hooked Bottom Bouncing it was caught ethically? Hmmm. Folks, I hate to break it to ya... but the dwindling stocks are not going to be improved one little bit by these special interest groups ramming thier opinions down everyone's throat.
That Chilliwack newspaper article was one dimensional and opinionated. I'll say it again, IF STOCKS ARE IN DISTRESS... SHUT DOWN THE FISHERY TO EVERYONE! That means YOU TOO FN. And if that was ACTUALLY ENFORCED... then and only then.... would you see any improvement. Good luck with that. Instead what we see is these special interest activists wasting thier time with small potatoes.
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I think the problem is your incorporating too many things into what "You" consider "unethical"!!!! Bottom bouncing is a term for your weight ticking along the bottom down here....How is that unethical? Short floating is only one method of fishing..It to me is old fashioned and out of date...to preach it's the only way to fish is IMO elitist... That's what bothers me on this subject.... I'm sick of reading how guys are" ticking bottom and then adjusting their floats to be just off that and fishing 18" leaders"....and then showing pictures of steelhead they SNAGGED with the roe bag uncrushed and the hook on the outside of the mouth....pure b.s. ( but that's been shown enough on 2:40's site ;D)
We are fighting a war among st ourselves over what is deemed "ethical" by a select group...What we really need to be concerned with is not division but pulling all angling groups togeather to stand up as one...Whether it be fly, float, etc. Your resources are going fast and your pissing into the wind over leader length. We catch the fewest amount of fish and yet spent the most for local economy's etc. We aren't heard because everyone is always pointing at someone else as the cause...That's the real problem in a IMHO..
Golfman, you are right, bottom bouncing is a legit form of angling, used in very deep portions of water on the vedder... I used to do it myself in Allison Canyon, where floats could not get down deep enough.
The problem is that flossing has appropriated the term, and before sockeye, bottom bouncing was done with a 1.5-3 foot leader, to allow the bait to swing freely in the current.
Bouncing betties were never used back then, it was more pencil lead and slinkies.
So until there is some sort of restriction on leader length, this debate will continue.
New anglers (by new I mean 10 years or less) may know nothing better than flossing, and they need to be educated.
Or else they'll think it's okay to floss everywhere, and I think we can all agree that is not right.
Cheers,
Nicole
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get a camera down there and prove to everyone that the fish are in fact NOT biting and maybe there would be something to back the claims up !! until then the false claims and scare tactics need to STOP !!!!!
That's a good idea, why don't you do that? Make sure to get the camera right in close to show the hook on the inside of the mouth (as a seamless unedited raw piece of video), and I bet these guys will back off.
Cheers,
Nicole
YOU are the ones making the claims !! YOU are the ones that need to provide the proof !! so put down your rod's and stop fishing your " FLY ONLY" water and get to it !! until then figure out a way to improve fish stock survival and stop ramming your " Beliefs" down everyones throats >:(
TH
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I think the problem is your incorporating too many things into what "You" consider "unethical"!!!! Bottom bouncing is a term for your weight ticking along the bottom down here....How is that unethical? Short floating is only one method of fishing..It to me is old fashioned and out of date...to preach it's the only way to fish is IMO elitist... That's what bothers me on this subject.... I'm sick of reading how guys are" ticking bottom and then adjusting their floats to be just off that and fishing 18" leaders"....and then showing pictures of steelhead they SNAGGED with the roe bag uncrushed and the hook on the outside of the mouth....pure b.s. ( but that's been shown enough on 2:40's site ;D)
We are fighting a war among st ourselves over what is deemed "ethical" by a select group...What we really need to be concerned with is not division but pulling all angling groups togeather to stand up as one...Whether it be fly, float, etc. Your resources are going fast and your pissing into the wind over leader length. We catch the fewest amount of fish and yet spent the most for local economy's etc. We aren't heard because everyone is always pointing at someone else as the cause...That's the real problem in a IMHO..
New anglers (by new I mean 10 years or less) may know nothing better than flossing, and they need to be educated.
Or else they'll think it's okay to floss everywhere, and I think we can all agree that is not right.
Cheers,
Nicole
You and a small % of others think it is not right !! take a poll and lets see who really agrees with you
TH
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"New anglers (by new I mean 10 years or less) may know nothing better than flossing, and they need to be educated."
And you are going to educate them? Ok folks rule one :Floss fish with bouncing betty Baaaad. rule 2 Floss with fly rod Gooood.
Some of you guys just kill me!
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YOU are the ones making the claims !! YOU are the ones that need to provide the proof !! so put down your rod's and stop fishing your " FLY ONLY" water and get to it !! until then figure out a way to improve fish stock survival and stop ramming your " Beliefs" down everyones throats >:(
TH
You really have to get your head outta your my friend... I've been fishing the cap lately, with ROE... Fly only hey? You're grasping at some really short straws there.
I'm not going to waste my time, I have better things to do. Like fish!
Cheers,
Nicole
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That Chilliwack newspaper article was one dimensional and opinionated. I'll say it again, IF STOCKS ARE IN DISTRESS... SHUT DOWN THE FISHERY TO EVERYONE! That means YOU TOO FN. And if that was ACTUALLY ENFORCED... then and only then.... would you see any improvement. Good luck with that. Instead what we see is these special interest activists wasting thier time with small potatoes.
Exactly, if the fish is in danger shut down the fishery to all.
Nicole and 2:40, can you please point me to a dictionary where I can find the definition of "sport fishing" and what methods are included?
It's hot in here.
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"New anglers (by new I mean 10 years or less) may know nothing better than flossing, and they need to be educated."
And you are going to educate them? Ok folks rule one :Floss fish with bouncing betty Baaaad. rule 2 Floss with fly rod Gooood.
Some of you guys just kill me!
Actually I do... All the time I get a chance, and people I teach on the river are very appreciative.
Cheers,
Nicole
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"New anglers (by new I mean 10 years or less) may know nothing better than flossing, and they need to be educated."
And you are going to educate them? Ok folks rule one :Floss fish with bouncing betty Baaaad. rule 2 Floss with fly rod Gooood.
Some of you guys just kill me!
Actually I do... All the time I get a chance, and people I teach on the river are very appreciative.
Cheers,
Nicole
That's what worries me about the Fishery. You need to broaden your focus on a part of the fishery that actually will make a difference for the fish, not waste your time preaching your gospel lady.
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That's what I'm doing FlossnBonk, I'm part of the solution...
And I'm not afraid to express my opinion, it's based on 30 years of experience and observation in fishing of all types. If some of you don't agree, it's totally ok with me, that is why we live in Canada :D
Cheers,
Nicole
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Part of what solution? Helping the fish stocks improve? C'mon, it's all about your own little agenda , and that is obvious.
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That's what I'm doing FlossnBonk, I'm part of the solution...
And I'm not afraid to express my opinion, it's based on 30 years of experience and observation in fishing of all types. If some of you don't agree, it's totally ok with me, that is why we live in Canada :D
Cheers,
Nicole
Expressing your opinion and ramming it down peoples throats are two entirely different things just so you know !! I won't stoop to name calling and insults like you so this discussion for me is over !! at one time I thought quite highly of you Nicole.. shame your true colours came through I guess :(
cheers
TH OUT
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I'll tell you what my agenda is, impose a leader restriction, that is all.
Everyone has a right to fish the way they want...
Cheers,
Nicole
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Expressing your opinion and ramming it down peoples throats are two entirely different things just so you know !! I won't stoop to name calling and insults like you so this discussion for me is over !! at one time I thought quite highly of you Nicole.. shame your true colours came through I guess :(
cheers
TH OUT
How have I rammed my opinion down your throat?
I am merely expressing my opinion, that is all.
I haven't done a single thing to have bottom bouncing made illegal politically, not even letter writing. So what the heck are you talking about?
Yes those are my true colors, I look at sport fishing as enticing a fish to bite...
If that is shameful and you don't wish to know me as a result, then so be it. It's your loss.
Its too bad you want to create animosity, I'm totally not geared that way... Oh well.
Cheers,
Nicole
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I think the problem is your incorporating too many things into what "You" consider "unethical"!!!! Bottom bouncing is a term for your weight ticking along the bottom down here....How is that unethical? Short floating is only one method of fishing..It to me is old fashioned and out of date...to preach it's the only way to fish is IMO elitist... That's what bothers me on this subject.... I'm sick of reading how guys are" ticking bottom and then adjusting their floats to be just off that and fishing 18" leaders"....and then showing pictures of steelhead they SNAGGED with the roe bag uncrushed and the hook on the outside of the mouth....pure b.s. ( but that's been shown enough on 2:40's site ;D)
We are fighting a war among st ourselves over what is deemed "ethical" by a select group...What we really need to be concerned with is not division but pulling all angling groups togeather to stand up as one...Whether it be fly, float, etc. Your resources are going fast and your pissing into the wind over leader length. We catch the fewest amount of fish and yet spent the most for local economy's etc. We aren't heard because everyone is always pointing at someone else as the cause...That's the real problem in a IMHO..
Great Post! Exactly how I feel about this.
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Ok let's all have a beer, shall we?!
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I'll tell you what my agenda is, impose a leader restriction, that is all.
Everyone has a right to fish the way they want...
Cheers,
Nicole
Hmm, being the devil's advocate here but how would a leader restriction solve anything? How would that stop the people snagging chums in the back at the chehalis hatchery? What about Tamahi? the leaders there are usually quite short. How could this rule be implemented with fly fishing? Would it stop the flossing with fly gear for chums on the Squamish? Do you honestly think a leader restriction would do anything to minimize the number of snagged chinook at KWB? Why do we argue about techniques or what leader length we use when its fairly obvious that its how we use it thats important. I don't know maybe its too simple but I favor techniques and methods that give fish a chance to bite. If you start using that technique to intentionally foul hook fish (like casting into a bunch of trapped fished and ripping away) then I will take offence to that. But if you allow your gear to drift properly whether its with a float or BB or whatever length leader you have then you are giving the fish a chance to bite. From what I have seen in regards to the sockeye fishery, most people let their gear drift properly. Even if most fish are flossed, the technique does give a chance for the fish to bite. I am not promoting the sockeye fishery by any means but I have to call it like I see it.
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Hey,
This message is for Trophy Hunter, I realized I was way out of line with my tone towards you, and I apologize for that...
I'm not feeling well today, and I over reacted... I know its no excuse, so I hope you accept my apology...
:(
Nicole
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Hmm, being the devil's advocate here but how would a leader restriction solve anything? How would that stop the people snagging chums in the back at the chehalis hatchery? What about Tamahi? the leaders there are usually quite short. How could this rule be implemented with fly fishing? Would it stop the flossing with fly gear for chums on the Squamish? Do you honestly think a leader restriction would do anything to minimize the number of snagged chinook at KWB? Why do we argue about techniques or what leader length we use when its fairly obvious that its how we use it thats important. I don't know maybe its too simple but I favor techniques and methods that give fish a chance to bite. If you start using that technique to intentionally foul hook fish (like casting into a bunch of trapped fished and ripping away) then I will take offence to that. But if you allow your gear to drift properly whether its with a float or BB or whatever length leader you have then you are giving the fish a chance to bite. From what I have seen in regards to the sockeye fishery, most people let their gear drift properly. Even if most fish are flossed, the technique does give a chance for the fish to bite. I am not promoting the sockeye fishery by any means but I have to call it like I see it.
Yes, you're right, you can snag fish by any means, I could throw a belly in my fly line when fly fishing and snag salmon every cast if I wanted to. Or with a float, you can extend the float length and rip away.
I'm not sure what do actually do about the problem at all, it seems like there is no clear solution... The leader restriction would seriously screw my fishing coho off a dry line, as the normal amount of leader is 10 feet...
So I guess chaos is the best option then?
I dunno.
Nicole
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Yes, you're right, you can snag fish by any means, I could throw a belly in my fly line when fly fishing and snag salmon every cast if I wanted to. Or with a float, you can extend the float length and rip away.
I'm not sure what do actually do about the problem at all, it seems like there is no clear solution... The leader restriction would seriously screw my fishing coho off a dry line, as the normal amount of leader is 10 feet...
So I guess chaos is the best option then?
I dunno.
Nicole
No, the best option is for better enforcement and management. The laws that are in place right now if enforced more rigourously would curtail most of the "undesirable activity" that you see now. If people are less likely to keep a foul hooked fish because of increased enforcement, they would be less likely to try and foul hook one to begin with. I hate to say this but spot closures may be a solution as well. IMHO during years of low flows in late september and early october, areas like KWB should be closed because its just a recipe for disaster, especially if you do not have the resources to keep everyone in check. Look at the regs on the Stamp. Notice that there are a few areas (ex. stamp falls pool) that are closed all the time.
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Hey,
This message is for Trophy Hunter, I realized I was way out of line with my tone towards you, and I apologize for that...
I'm not feeling well today, and I over reacted... I know its no excuse, so I hope you accept my apology...
:(
Nicole
No worries
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I sure wish I could snag a fish with my spey rod...I'm so desperate to actually catch something,( besides wood,) I promise to let it go really fast...please Salmon gods, have pity on me....
sadly, I actually played the last log I caught for about 3 minutes..till my leader broke...and enjoyed the hell out of it... :'(
p.s. One reason for some of the confusion is like stated, down here bottom bouncing is your lead ticking the bottom...you guys refer to it as using bouncing bettys??? What do you call when your lead, slinky or split shot...touch bottom every so often???
Also, the leader length I think is miss leading too....It's the giant RIIIIIPPPPPPPP at the end of every drift that is more disturbing to me...we stopped at the cement slab yesterday, counted 13 guys on one side and 11 on the other...after every drift....RIIIIIIIIIIPPPPPPPPP... while leader length would help a bit "maybe" its the actually practice that is the problem...not the gear..IMO
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Nicole "my friend" the scary part is .... an article full of "beliefs" and "theories" was published as "facts" ... in this world that is a big NO NO !!!
and as for your fishing with floats comment .. it goes much deeper than that !! they also refer to BB the Fraser !!! calling one method of fishing Snagging when in fact nobody has ever proven that !!! get a camera down there and prove to everyone that the fish are in fact NOT biting and maybe there would be something to back the claims up !! until then the false claims and scare tactics need to STOP !!!!!
Oh please. Everyone knows these fish dont bite. Why else does the leader keep growing in length? Because it helps in the snagging!! If you're looking for a fish to bite, use a shorter leader so you can at least have some credibility when you talk about these fish biting. ::)
The fact that there's belief in these fish biting says a lot IMO. ::)
Rick, you dont think it's fact? You go prove it then! More and more proof is coming up to support the 'claims'. Funny enough, the 'proof' is common sense angling that seems to be lost among many of the 'new' anglers (10 years or newer...well said to who commented on that).
Golfman, this is why this type if fishing, bet it with betty, long float (RIPPING!) or etc should be called SNAGGING and not some other term that also describes a legit angling method. So much is indeed intent. Guys can snag with a shorter leader. Leader length wont be the only cure.
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Nicole "my friend" the scary part is .... an article full of "beliefs" and "theories" was published as "facts" ... in this world that is a big NO NO !!!
and as for your fishing with floats comment .. it goes much deeper than that !! they also refer to BB the Fraser !!! calling one method of fishing Snagging when in fact nobody has ever proven that !!! get a camera down there and prove to everyone that the fish are in fact NOT biting and maybe there would be something to back the claims up !! until then the false claims and scare tactics need to STOP !!!!!
Oh please. Everyone knows these fish dont bite. Why else does the leader keep growing in length? Because it helps in the snagging!! If you're looking for a fish to bite, use a shorter leader so you can at least have some credibility when you talk about these fish biting. ::)
The fact that there's belief in these fish biting says a lot IMO. ::)
Rick, you dont think it's fact? You go prove it then! More and more proof is coming up to support the 'claims'. Funny enough, the 'proof' is common sense angling that seems to be lost among many of the 'new' anglers (10 years or newer...well said to who commented on that).
Golfman, this is why this type if fishing, bet it with betty, long float (RIPPING!) or etc should be called SNAGGING and not some other term that also describes a legit angling method. So much is indeed intent. Guys can snag with a shorter leader. Leader length wont be the only cure.
Why should I have to prove anything ??? you are the one pointing fingers and attacking 90% of fishermen and you do it with absolutely no proof !!!! you are non stop in your pursuit to open all of the Fraser to your precious Barfishing only !!! you keep telling me the fish don't bite yet you have no proof !! go get some and maybe people will think you aren't just another extremest.... things have been taken way too far with that ridiculous article and with all the untruths that it is full of I would be surprised if the paper didn't get sued.... the fact that you are still using the survival numbers of salmon to fuel your campain makes me take you less and less seriously every time you write something... you will never get most people to see things your way because your ideas are too narrow and they serve to benefit very few, if you think your constant bashing of good fishermen is ever going to win you support you are kidding yourself, I honestly don't know why I waste my time even responding to your posts when they are the same thing over and over again... if only you had some sort of proof to back up your attacks maybe they would be worth reading !! >:(
TH
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Very simple proof, a bare hook will work just as well. ;D ;D ;D
Not sure if using just a hook is legal but if it is red maybe that is ok. ;D
One just has to visit the Chilliwack River these days and see why we are very concerned where angling has gone, I donot think anyone will dispute that.
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Nicole, if Sockeye opens this year are you going to Snag them like you did last year? You do go snagging for sockeye right?
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I liked the name Big Steel where did he go? ;D ;D ;D
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Nicole, if Sockeye opens this year are you going to Snag them like you did last year? You do go snagging for sockeye right?
I did last year, but after a blow up after being crowded out, I'm retiring...
I don't like what I become out there, so it's best for me to hang my betties up for good...
I had no problem flossing for sockeye on the fraser, so few of them bite, that there is no way to catch them otherwise.
Cheers,
Nicole
PS> I forgot to mention, my freezer is also full again from Ucluelet three weeks ago, so there's no need to go anyways :)
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Yeah, where did big steel go? What is the new alias all about?
:)
Nicole
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Thought it was time for a change!! Besides. I wasn't exactly living up to the name lately so... ;D ;D ;D Not sure though, Big Steel does have a ring to it now that I haven't seen it for a bit!!
Anyhow, back to the topic at hand.
Yeah Flossers. Boo anti flossers!! ;D ;D Sorry, but I like my sockeye. In saying that though, if there is no oppurtunity for socks, I really hope the Rivers clears up a bit, I would love to get into a Spring. I need my salmon fix and the Vedder hasn't been to nice to me yet!! ::) ;D If it doesn't, you just might see me out there in the next month flossing away.... ;)
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I need my salmon fix and the Vedder hasn't been to nice to me yet!! ::) ;D If it doesn't, you just might see me out there in the next month flossing away.... ;)
Why not just go out for these guys? Aren't you closer?
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1155/935460486_f51a6b5b3f.jpg)
Cheaper on gas, and good excercise (trust me I need it)
:)
Nicole
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I need my salmon fix and the Vedder hasn't been to nice to me yet!! ::) ;D If it doesn't, you just might see me out there in the next month flossing away.... ;)
Why not just go out for these guys? Aren't you closer?
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1155/935460486_f51a6b5b3f.jpg)
Cheaper on gas, and good excercise (trust me I need it)
:)
Nicole
Don't know what it is really, but I hate that river!! If I thought about it, I could propbably come up with more than a couple reason why I don't like to fish it. Done it twice, didn't do it for me both times!! ;D
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I need my salmon fix and the Vedder hasn't been to nice to me yet!! ::) ;D If it doesn't, you just might see me out there in the next month flossing away.... ;)
Why not just go out for these guys? Aren't you closer?
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1155/935460486_f51a6b5b3f.jpg)
Cheaper on gas, and good excercise (trust me I need it)
:)
Nicole
Nice. ;D ;D ;D
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Don't know what it is really, but I hate that river!! If I thought about it, I could propbably come up with more than a couple reason why I don't like to fish it. Done it twice, didn't do it for me both times!! ;D
You should ask the butt of my Simms waders about that, they are not happy right now... Two good sized gashes through 3 layers of GoreTex after falling down part of the trail on a rock face... That part I'm not a fan of!
Luckily they are repairable... In the shop right now.
:(
Nicole
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Thought it was time for a change!! Besides. I wasn't exactly living up to the name lately so... ;D ;D ;
So does that mean I should change my name to jetboatlessjim for now. ;D
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Part of what solution? Helping the fish stocks improve? C'mon, it's all about your own little agenda , and that is obvious.
FNB, what is your agenda here? All of your posts since signing on this forum have been arguing in favour of flossing. That seems like you have an agenda ;D
Although there are difference in opinions on this topic the majority of members generally try and help each other out here. Other than the flossing issue most of us get along pretty well and even get to meet and fish with each other once in a while. I really wish DFO would get there a$$e$ in gear and make a decision one way or another on the flossing issue, at least folks on both sides of the argument will have something solid to argue against. The rules on flossing and the requests that elude not to floss are so squishy it`s ridiculous ??? I wish they would at least have the nads to make a firm decision so the Fishing Guides, Tackle Stores and Sports Fishermen(and women ;)) know what the scoop is before the season starts.
I have my views on flossing that I vented and it has pissed off people I know and respect from this forum. I`m not sorry for my views but more for the fact that I have done this without talking to them face to face, so many things go wrong for me when I try to express my feelings on the net. I will actually quit posting for for good on this topic and can only hope we all somehow manage to put our own personal crap aside and work together towards a healthy sustainable fish stock for the future.
If I offended anyone of the people I know here I apologize to you. Arguing has done nothing to sway me or you from the points of view we hold and my time could have been better spent doing something more constructive to help out with the future of our fish stocks and environment.
Cheers
Nuggy
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Bottom line, way easier to snag fish than to catch them legally.
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Bottom line, way easier to snag fish than to catch them legally.
::)
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Nuggy,
Funny you should ask re : my agenda. I've frequented this and a few other forums kinda like this over the last few years. My agenda is simple. All I hear about is the debate on where angling has gone from these self proclaimed stewards of the river, and they are totally missing the point. The concern for them is always trying to do away with one form of angling over another. Bar vs. BB... Fly vs. Gear. What should be focussed on in earnest? People for the conservation of fish. Want to make a difference? Quit bitching at each other and start telling the government that the fish are in trouble because of their lack of management and enforcement for the rules that are in place. One can argue for or against any method.
The amount of fish taken by rec license holders is a drop in the bucket compared to the Commies and FN. I totally agree the FN has a right to fish traditionally for salmon, they don't have the right to waste or sell fish. If it has been determined a run is in danger, SHUT IT DOWN PERIOD. Enforce it. YES FN TOO. What are we doing here bickering amongst ourselves? Nothing! It's a waste of time.
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Nuggy,
Funny you should ask re : my agenda. I've frequented this and a few other forums kinda like this over the last few years. My agenda is simple. All I hear about is the debate on where angling has gone from these self proclaimed stewards of the river, and they are totally missing the point. The concern for them is always trying to do away with one form of angling over another. Bar vs. BB... Fly vs. Gear. What should be focussed on in earnest? People for the conservation of fish. Want to make a difference? Quit bitching at each other and start telling the government that the fish are in trouble because of their lack of management and enforcement for the rules that are in place. One can argue for or against any method.
The amount of fish taken by rec license holders is a drop in the bucket compared to the Commies and FN. I totally agree the FN has a right to fish traditionally for salmon, they don't have the right to waste or sell fish. If it has been determined a run is in danger, SHUT IT DOWN PERIOD. Enforce it. YES FN TOO. What are we doing here bickering amongst ourselves? Nothing! It's a waste of time.
Here, here, well said. I totally agree.
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So in your impression, a person who buys a licence, whether it's their first year fishing or their 40th, each has the same voice, no additional clout?
One licence = one vote?
Cheers,
Nicole
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Quick question:
What would happen if the Salmon vanished from the Fraser???
Guess there would be no reason NOT to dam it and provide all the cheap electricity that G.V.R. is so desperate for...
SO!!! Do you really think your government gives too much of a hoot what happens???
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Nicole, if Sockeye opens this year are you going to Snag them like you did last year? You do go snagging for sockeye right?
I did last year, but after a blow up after being crowded out, I'm retiring...
I don't like what I become out there, so it's best for me to hang my betties up for good...
I had no problem flossing for sockeye on the fraser, so few of them bite, that there is no way to catch them otherwise.
Cheers,
Nicole
PS> I forgot to mention, my freezer is also full again from Ucluelet three weeks ago, so there's no need to go anyways :)
;D ;D ;D
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I kinda think if we spent half as much energy on e-mails to the powers that be , or showed up to some of the meetings and such we could have a better impact.
everyone loves to jump on everyone else but, its kinda like my 3-8-10 year olds fighting.
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I'll tell you what my agenda is, impose a leader restriction, that is all.
Everyone has a right to fish the way they want...
Cheers,
Nicole
Nice contradiction...
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So in your impression, a person who buys a licence, whether it's their first year fishing or their 40th, each has the same voice, no additional clout?
One licence = one vote?
Cheers,
Nicole
Welcome to Canada
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A good article Chris, hopefully the move to another level happens quickly.
I believe MOE and FOC are seeing what this type of activity is creating and the hope is we donot see a sockeye opening this year, in 2008, 2009 and ever again. ;D
This will help bring things back to normal in the fishing fraternity.
Thanks to you, with your article, the fishing clinic you put on, it got the ball rolling.
Now the trick is to keep things rolling rolling, rolling right along ;D ;D ;D. Gosh training camp is not that far away, to learn proper fishing techniques that is. ;D ;D ;D Now that is a low blow. ::) Sort of good to be back on the forum after another succesful fishing trip with 2 jacks springs and one nice adult, should write the journal. :)
Well it is interesting to see a small group pushing their agenda.
The use of "concern for stocks" is just plain funny.
If there is a conservation concern then it is simple, shut the river to ALL.
Is there a concern about released stocks? If so, what % of ALL catch and release fish are killed??
What difference is there between fish that are released that were flossed or caught bar fishing?
What % of fish caught in the Vedder by all means are released then die??
What are you talking about, people catching to many fish in the Fraser and other rivers?
How many Sockeye have been caught on the Fraser to date this year?
How come it is OK for F/N to have a commercial opening on the river and others are told to stay away from sockeye?
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Of interest I just picked up the latest copy of BC Outdoors and if you wish to read the editorial you will see we are not the only ones concerned with this issue. The editorial also calls it what it is, snagging.
Maybe we are not a small group after all. ;D ;D ;D
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I kinda think if we spent half as much energy on e-mails to the powers that be , or showed up to some of the meetings and such we could have a better impact.
everyone loves to jump on everyone else but, its kinda like my 3-8-10 year olds fighting.
Have been doing that for over 30 years, not fighting like the kids, I dealt with that part of life too. ;D ;D ;D
I tend not to call it fighting it is a discussion. If one is in politics one gets to know the difference. ;D ;D ;D
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Category(s):
RECREATIONAL - Salmon
Fishery Notice - Fisheries and Oceans Canada
Subject: FN0535-RECREATIONAL - SALMON - Sockeye: Fraser River Non-tidal - Region 2 - No fishing for sockeye - Update
Sockeye returns to the Fraser River continue to be lower than pre-season
forecasts.
Commercial and recreational fishing opportunities are delayed until test
fishing information indicates improved runs.
Anglers are reminded that in the non-tidal waters of the Fraser River from the
CPR Bridge at Mission, BC upstream to Alexandra Bridge that there is no fishing
for sockeye.
The continued cooperation from the recreational fishing community to comply
with the no fishing for sockeye regulation is appreciated.
DFO will continue to meet weekly with the Sport Fishing Advisory Board to
review test fishing information and possible fishing opportunities.
Notes:
Barbless hooks are required when fishing for salmon in tidal and non-tidal
waters of British Columbia. This includes all species of fish in the Fraser
River.
The term “hatchery marked” means a fish that has a healed scar in place of the
adipose fin.
Sport anglers are encouraged to participate in the voluntary Salmon Sport Head
Recovery program by labelling and submitting heads from adipose fin-clipped
Chinook and Coho salmon. Recovery of coded-wire tags provides critical
information for coast-wide stock assessment. Contact the Salmon Sport Head
Recovery Program at (866) 483-9994 for further information.
Did you witness suspicious fishing activity or a violation? If so, please call
the Fisheries and Ocean Canada 24-hour toll free Observe, Record, Report line
at (800) 465-4336.
For the 24 hour recorded opening and closure line, call toll free at (866) 431-
FISH.
Fisheries and Oceans Canada Operations Center - FN0535
Sent July 31, 2007 at 19:38
Visit us on the Web at http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Of interest I just picked up the latest copy of BC Outdoors and if you wish to read the editorial you will see we are not the only ones concerned with this issue. The editorial also calls it what it is, snagging.
Maybe we are not a small group after all. ;D ;D ;D
In relation to the anglers that fish in B.C. you are.
Still waiting for a reply to the questions posted.
Where is the science to back your claims??
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I'll tell you what my agenda is, impose a leader restriction, that is all.
Everyone has a right to fish the way they want...
Cheers,
Nicole
Nice contradiction...
I guess I didn't explain the context of that enough, I'm not into creating barfishing only, or just flyfishing only regs, there are many ways to fish, and people should respect that.
The leader restriction would go a long way to help reduce the effectiveness of flossing, and help to improve the status of bottom bouncing (as it used to be before sockeye and the 20 foot leaders).
Flossing is very effective.
Cheers,
Nicole
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Yes flossing is very effective. I was out on the veddar yesterday after work( mostly to test the new breathables) and we came into this run ( no it was not the limit hole). It was about three feet of water where this one guy was fishing. He was using about a 2 foot leader but 6 to 7 feet between his float and a fixed weight. He was hooking alot of springs. Where would your guys leader restriction come into play here? According to your guys suggestions of 3 feet or less from a fixed weight he would be perfectly fine but he was still snagging fish. See how leader restriction may not exactly work. People are already finding a way to adjust.
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Yep fly guy, you're right, we did touch on that a couple days ago in this debate...
Where there is a will there is a way.
Cheers,
Nicole
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Yes flossing is very effective. I was out on the veddar yesterday after work( mostly to test the new breathables) and we came into this run ( no it was not the limit hole). It was about three feet of water where this one guy was fishing. He was using about a 2 foot leader but 6 to 7 feet between his float and a fixed weight. He was hooking alot of springs. Where would your guys leader restriction come into play here? According to your guys suggestions of 3 feet or less from a fixed weight he would be perfectly fine but he was still snagging fish. See how leader restriction may not exactly work. People are already finding a way to adjust.
You are right but the answer is to try to explain to people that going fishing with the intent to snag fish is not what sports angling is about.
That I know will be difficult as some seasoned anglers still think it is ok to do so and defend this flossing, bouncing and snagging or what one chooses to call this method of fishing although I use the term fishing loosely.
The good part is more people each day are seeing it for what it is and are giving it up. ;D ;D ;D
Remember most of us, including myself were doing the same thing a few years ago, we changed.
I know there is some that will not change their opinion on this but I guess that is their choice.
When and if you read the BC Outdoors editorial and I quote this sentence "The phrase that best defines all that is sport fishing has to be: "entice to bite" How can one disagree with that statement is beyond me.
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A good article Chris, hopefully the move to another level happens quickly.
I believe MOE and FOC are seeing what this type of activity is creating and the hope is we donot see a sockeye opening this year, in 2008, 2009 and ever again. ;D
This will help bring things back to normal in the fishing fraternity.
Thanks to you, with your article, the fishing clinic you put on, it got the ball rolling.
Now the trick is to keep things rolling rolling, rolling right along ;D ;D ;D. Gosh training camp is not that far away, to learn proper fishing techniques that is. ;D ;D ;D Now that is a low blow. ::) Sort of good to be back on the forum after another succesful fishing trip with 2 jacks springs and one nice adult, should write the journal. :)
Well it is interesting to see a small group pushing their agenda.
The use of "concern for stocks" is just plain funny.
If there is a conservation concern then it is simple, shut the river to ALL.
Is there a concern about released stocks? If so, what % of ALL catch and release fish are killed??
What difference is there between fish that are released that were flossed or caught bar fishing?
What % of fish caught in the Vedder by all means are released then die??
What are you talking about, people catching to many fish in the Fraser and other rivers?
How many Sockeye have been caught on the Fraser to date this year?
How come it is OK for F/N to have a commercial opening on the river and others are told to stay away from sockeye?
Please read the editorial in BC Outdoors I think it may change your opinion on this fishery.
If not please let us know where the writer of the editorial has gone astray with his remarks.
I think your other questions just avoid the issue that going out to intently snag a fish is not right, don't you agree?
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Letter to the editor re: Anglers take on ethics debate
After reading the article titled “Anglers take on ethics debate” I was somewhat frustrated. I found that the article makes some rather large assumptions on the level of support for document the referred to and as to the root causes of the problems it is designed to address
I have read the report mentioned in the article on the Internet and I found it to be an extremely biased report, which essentially blames all the problems identified in the Chilliwack/Vedder system from retaining foul hooked fish. Fishing with barbed hooks, failing to record appropriate species to littering, on the Fraser River recreational sockeye fishery and specifically bottom bouncing. In the description of the problem they identify a set of behaviors, which after a careful review the vast majority are illegal, therefore the simple solution is strategic enforcement of existing rules in problem areas
The report seems to have focused it, s attention on the sockeye fishery in the Fraser and in large part blames all the issues that are currently present on the Vedder on the opening of the sockeye fishery in I believe 1996. In my opinion this is a very narrow view of the contributing factors. For Example in the late 90's a recreational harvest was allowed on Chum and pinks around the same time the white springs were enhanced in the Chilliwack River. These advancements created a lot more opportunities for people to take home a fish.
Over the last 10 years the population of the lower mainland has increased dramatically. The Fraser and the Chilliwack/Vedder respectively are the most fished rivers in the province. With this popularity comes crowds with crowds comes some social issues as with any other activity. The lower mainland is the only area in the province where fishing license sales are increasing. In large part due to the world-class fisheries on the Fraser and the Chilliwack/Vedder Rivers, including the sockeye fishery
The report blames the apparent lack of ethics seen in some areas of the Chilliwack/Vedder on the sockeye fishery and bottom bouncing yet when I researched the issue on the internet I found that every jurisdiction that had large runs of salmon in close proximity to large populations people the same set of issues as outlined in this report. This was evident in New York State. Michigan, Ontario, Washington, Oregon and California.
In my opinion the solutions to the issues this report is trying to address are: Strategic enforcement of existing rules and timely education campaigns. Not adding more regulation and loss of fishing opportunity. The recreational fishing community needs to work together to develop workable solutions to these issues not drafting reports that recommend someone else fix it through legislation and a reduction of fishing opportunities.
The article identifies specific areas of the river where problems occur. Well then have an enforcement presence there deal with the offenders get aggressive with violators but don’t punish the thousands of other anglers who fish respectfully
The article leads one to believe that if you bottom bounce for Salmon on the Fraser you will turn into this monster that is out to rape and pillage our rivers. I take exception to this and I also have a greater faith in people. You fish different rivers and bodies of water differently according to the local conditions. Bottom bouncing is a technique that is intended to hook fish in the mouth as per regulation. . There is no need for regulation change. If it is hooked anywhere other than the mouth it must be released carefully. While I understand the argument presented regarding this technique I disagree and from a survey done so do the vast majority of anglers. As with any activity you are free to pursue the sport by any legal means. So if you don’t like it don’t do it. But please don’t try to force me to conform to some one else’s ideal of what is or is not an ethical manner of fishing when there is no conservation concern present.
The frustrating part for me is this is a new round in recreational anglers fighting amongst them selves on technique whether it be bottom bouncing, bait bans, fly only or other gear restrictions ect. While I believe the people involved are well intentioned in their desire to improve the fisheries and some of the solutions presented have merit. However I feel that they are looking to the wrong place for results and trying to turn back the clock will only result in lost opportunities and ultimately hurt the recreational fishing opportunities in the lower mainland.
The economic impact alone should the recommended solutions come to pass would be devastating to a wide range of businesses. Tourism in Chilliwack would suffer significantly should the draw of the Fraser River fisheries be curtailed The loss of economic value to lower mainland fisheries resulting from less license sales would ultimately hurt the Freshwater Fisheries Society that receives significant funding from these license sales. This would have a province wide impact.
It also frustrates me that the government representatives who participated in this report seem to be encouraging this division of recreational anglers and are operating outside of formal consultative processes.
I agree that some people on the Chilliwack /Vedder system abuse the fishery. I do not believe that more regulation or loss of fishing opportunity will correct it. Only strong enforcement of existing regulation and timely education campaigns will instill a higher standard.
Gerry Dewar
42522 Adams Rd.
Chilliwack BC
604-823-6336
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Thanks for posting Gerry's letter for him and for us to read.
The next thing that should be in order is the Sports Fishing Advisory Committee Sub Committee that was struck a few months ago that you, Gerry, myself, Gwyn, Ken and others sit on should be preparing a document or report that they were charged with to do to seek solutions to this issue.
Then it can be submitted to the Upper Fraser Valley SFAC for further input and approval before being submitted to the SFAB.
Writing letters and articles are fine but one must prepare something like the Chilliwack River Watershed Strategy Committee did so improvements can attempted to be be made to what a number of us see as a problem's with this type of activity as does Gerry who states in his letter there are.
However trying to get over the hurdle that some believe it is that is is ok to go out and bottom bounce for salmon and steelhead when actually you know full well it is just a method to snag fish will be a hard one to overcome.
I am glad Gerry mentioned in his letter that when there is a conservation problem, that we have now with this year's run of Fraser River sockeye anglers should be fishing selectively (that is how I read it but I could be corrected) and to me that means not bottom bouncing. I hope many anglers will take that into consideration which I am sure many that do care about our fish will continue to do so.
Once again thanks for posting Gerry's letter.
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"The article leads one to believe that if you bottom bounce for Salmon on the Fraser you will turn into this monster that is out to rape and pillage our rivers. I take exception to this and I also have a greater faith in people. "
Exactly
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"However trying to get over the hurdle that some believe it is that is is ok to go out and bottom bounce for salmon and steelhead when actually you know full well it is just a method to snag fish will be a hard one to overcome."
Chris, I disagree. And I think you, are a vocal minority. If more restrictions are put in place, I suspect ... quite a few license holders will "vote" with their dollars. That being a withdrawl of them of course. Is that really what your agenda is? I think not. I think really what you want is less people on the rivers, so that you may enjoy them a little more yourself. Be honest with yourself. I still think you're missing the point. FN nets and devastating Comm. openings and of course lack of enforcement are the issues, that if dealt with in a timely manner, would have the best outcome for the fish. But that's not really what you want is it? ;D ;D ;D
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I have not read the letter today, but the real root of the problem is the allowed retention of Sockeye, pinks and chum.
I bet if these openings were cancelled entirely, alot of the problems would eventually go away.
It is a people problem... There are too many of us, and when too many of us are in the same location at the same time, some of us turn into disgusting and filthy pigs.
Take note, the fireworks...
Cheers,
Nicole
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"However trying to get over the hurdle that some believe it is that is is ok to go out and bottom bounce for salmon and steelhead when actually you know full well it is just a method to snag fish will be a hard one to overcome."
Chris, I disagree. And I think you, are a vocal minority. If more restrictions are put in place, I suspect ... quite a few license holders will "vote" with their dollars. That being a withdrawl of them of course. Is that really what your agenda is? I think not. I think really what you want is less people on the rivers, so that you may enjoy them a little more yourself. Be honest with yourself. I still think you're missing the point. FN nets and devastating Comm. openings and of course lack of enforcement are the issues, that if dealt with in a timely manner, would have the best outcome for the fish. But that's not really what you want is it? ;D ;D ;D
Gosh and to think Pete myself and a few others worked so hard to get sockeye open years ago and now you talk to me like that. ;D ;D ;D
Thats ok trouthbreath too, the politics of fishing is just like everything in life it is not easy. Our numbers grow and will continue to do so. ;D ;D
The good thing is if it was not for this debate here and elsewhere more people would have not been fishing selectively so we in fact have saved many fish that will now reach the spawning grounds. ;D
Now I am going fishing, darn I have put my foot in it again as I hope to SF a chinook or two.
O well I will not be here for a few hours to take the heat for my actions but retirement is still great and I hope everyone has a safe and enjoyable BC Long Weekend and you can go and catch a fish or two by fis..... selec......ly ;D ;D ;D