Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: rob.l on July 25, 2007, 02:53:29 PM
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Interested in getting a Calcutta reel. Which one is the norm for the west coast river scene.
Thanks
Rob
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I use a Calcutta 250 for every type of fishing, small enough for the Cap, enough of a drag to handle a 40 pound spring !!
alot of people use the 400, I think it is a bit of overkill but it is still a very nice reel
TH
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big rivers with big fish, 400, rivers like the vedder and chehalis with average size fish 250
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The 400 is a good size if you want an all around reel.
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Im in the same boat as TH and have the 250.
Is excellent as i mainly fish smaller systems with it but also have used it in the bigger rivers for Coho and Steelhead.
In a perfect world i would have a 400 too but my world is far from perfect. ;D
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I'd buy this
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=15088.0
Cheap to fix, easy to upgrade and a total workhorse.
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You can't go wrong with a Shimano either the 250 or 400
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I have taken to fishing braid...I would say half of my reels are loaded with either 20 or 50 lb power pro. I have both a 250 calcutta conquest and a 400 calcutta conquest and if I had to give up one high end reel, it would be the 400.
My 250 with 20lb braid can fish just about any river system/fish...only place I wouldnt use it is the fraser. I have a 9 foot lami and I can cast a 3/8 croc 100+ feet. There I would fish it with a 4-5 for 8lb mono leader. I put that reel on my sage 3113 and with 3 feet of 15lb (for split shot) and a 2 foot 6-12 lb leader, I have fished cap coho to large vedder whites.
Having a nice high end reel is great but if you run mono, you loose a lot of flexibility and a reel turns into an expensive one, pigeon holed into a limit number of applications.
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Overall, I would go with the 250. I own the 400 and recently bought the 250 as the 400 i found a bit heavy and overkill to use on the vedder, cap, chelahis. A buddy of mine uses the 250 for fraser, vedder, cap, etc.
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Calcutta 400 is a better all around reel. Looking at reels the other day and both the 400b and 250 are $249.99 at A&N in Langley.
Abu C3's are hardly a workhorse.
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I got a 400b and a low profile. 400 for Vedder if targeting spring, squamish for chum, and the chuck. low profile for coho and during low water season.
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Hi All, I'm looking at purchasing a calcutta. Hoping someone can help me with reel selection. I hear great things about this reel. I'm a little confused about the available models and the differences. It looks like from the shimano catalog that the 250 is no longer available. There seems to be two model lines the TE (total efficiency) and B series. Also a GT model is these two series. I believe the differences are more bearings in the TE and a machined vs forged frame and the GT is the freshwater Would the CTE 200GT be a suitable replacement for the 250?
Thanks for the help.
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Yes. They now have the Calcutta B series in 700, 400, 200, 100 and 50. There are also 201 and 101 left hand models. The 200 GT is a drilled reel. It has holes on the spool to reduce weight. Suggested retail is between $279 and $400 for all those sizes of Calcutta's. The 700 being the most expensive obviously. The 200GT and the 400 both have an MSRP of $329.
Hopefully this helps.
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Check the web for prices and with the Canadian Dollar now at almost par check the U.S.
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Thanks Dion and Old Black Dog,
Any recommendations for a good online store. I do buy and support my local stores but with this reel I need to save a few bucks!
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Have you thought about a Diawa Luna at all. Cheaper and a better reel in my opinion. I had a Calcutta TE for 4 years and thought it was a great reel, but then I got the Luna and was amazed at how smooth and strong it was. Has nice sleak looks and is working better then they day I bought, now having 15 trips on it.
The Luna 300 has a price tag of somewhere around $340 and the Luna 253 I believe is around the $300 mark as well. ;)
(http://f3c.yahoofs.com/shopping/3074351/simg_t_o20028737982002873798jpg?rm_____DLf2mEyIp)
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Hey DMW, no haven't looked at the Luna. Searun recommended this reel.
Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out.
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There seems to be two model lines the TE (total efficiency) and B series. Also a GT model is these two series. I believe the differences are more bearings in the TE and a machined vs forged frame and the GT is the freshwater Would the CTE 200GT be a suitable replacement for the 250?
Thanks for the help.
The main advantage of the TE over the B series is that it has oversized gears which = a fast retrieve without sacrificing torque. The Luna is a smooth reel but it lacks the torque (fish pulling power) of the TE. tacklewarehouse.com is a reputable online dealer with good prices. They have the Luna for 229 and the TE for 300-350.
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If you are looking for a smaller reel and don't mind using braided line, take a look at the Revo STX abu low profile. The power of that reel are rated higher than both the shimano and the Dawia.
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Where is it rated higher? I would be surprised if a 6.4 : 1 gear ratio reel has more torque than the TE's 5.0 : 1. I've found that just going up a couple points (4.7 vs 5.0 vs 5.3) makes a huge difference in the torque (and of course retrieval speed) of a reel. If this is true then the Revo sounds like a great reel as it comes with Carbon Fibre drags and a titanium levelwind. Otherwise I would find that high of a gear ratio to be far too weak for salmon fishing.
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Hey rob.l I've got a 250 for sale in the buy & sell section of the forum. New price. Check my post out. The reel is in excellent condition. New price. :)
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Max drag...
STX Revo = 24lb
CT400B = 17.5lbs
CT700 = 16.5lbs (another example of bigger reel does not mean higher in max drag)
Conquest 400 = 7kg
Luna300 = 15.4lbs
Luna253 = 11lbs
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That is probably due to the fact the reel uses Carbon Fibre drags which is a cheap upgrade for any reel (about 10-12 bucks). I would not recommend this reel for salmon fishing as the gear ratio is too high. In order to finesse a fish in you need a reel with torque to gain line on the fish without having to max out the drag.
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Shimano Curado 300 is used for inshore salt water... fighting fish just as hard like Blue fish, Barrcuda, football size tuna... It has the same ratio at 6.2:1 and with a max drag at 15lbs.
Revo STX is also used and tested with striper bass, and also tested fishing for either marlin or sailfish (forgot about which one)... They can run just as hard like salmon... And this year in ICAST, the inshore, saltwater verison of STX was shown... And better yet, it comes with the regular handle and the power handle for cranking... Not many low-profile reel can match that...
If you want low ratio gear, then why not look at the zillionaire reel from diawa. It has a max drag of 6kg which is more than the 253 LUNA. You can have a choice of getting 4.9:1 ratio, or 6.3:1, or 7.1:1 ratio...
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Just so you know:
For the zillionaire:
4.9:1 ratio = 6kg max drag
6.3:1 ratio = 6kg max drag
7.1:1 ratio = 5kg max drag
So, with that reel, the gear ratio and max drag did not change all that much.
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Charles is right.
I have a conquest 401 (JDM Version of the TE) and i have the Antares AR(JDM of calais) and personally, they are both really good reels. But the downside to the round baitcasters is the weight. i could cast all day with the low-profile without my wrist hurting. But how many of you could say that the round version is light enough for the whole day of casting. And if you say finesse, the amount of weight to start the intial rotation is much higher than a low-profile. The technology nowadays, they are making low-profiles that could hold even more line capacity than your regular round baitcaster. Don't get me wrong, when i go for sturgeons, i would use the conquest, but other than that, low-profile all the way. The new shimano low-profiles are really good in terms of line capacity and weight, from light lures to heavy, no problem.
Drunker
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Shimano Curado 300 is used for inshore salt water... fighting fish just as hard like Blue fish, Barrcuda, football size tuna... It has the same ratio at 6.2:1 and with a max drag at 15lbs.
Revo STX is also used and tested with striper bass, and also tested fishing for either marlin or sailfish (forgot about which one)... They can run just as hard like salmon... And this year in ICAST, the inshore, saltwater verison of STX was shown... And better yet, it comes with the regular handle and the power handle for cranking... Not many low-profile reel can match that...
If you want low ratio gear, then why not look at the zillionaire reel from diawa. It has a max drag of 6kg which is more than the 253 LUNA. You can have a choice of getting 4.9:1 ratio, or 6.3:1, or 7.1:1 ratio...
Sorry but you are talking about apples and oranges. The reason why a high gear ratio is beneficial for the fish you mentioned is because they are known for taking fast runs (from what I've heard), sometimes toward the angler therefore a fast retrieve is needed also those anglers are probably using strong braid with high test leader therefore maxing out the drag to haul a fish in is not a problem. When river fishing for salmon it is sometimes necessary to use lighter leaders if conditions dictate so therefore cranking down the drag in order to gain line on a fish because the reel has low torque (ie > 5.1) will snap your leader or else rip the hook out. IMO 24lbs drag pressure is overkill for salmon as a good rule of thumb is to use approx. 1/3 of the # line rating in drag pressure to avoid break offs. And if you want to add more drag pressure (and smooth too 8)) than what the Calcutta and Luna offer you can go to Mikes reel repair and have him install Carbon Fibre drags for cheap. Also when comparing retrieval speeds it is the inches per crank that determines the speed of retrieval not the gear ratio. So therefore a round reel with a larger spool and same gear ratio as a low pro with small spool will retrieve line faster and also cast farther when using sufficient weight (because it takes less revolutions of the spool to pay out line.) A smaller spooled reel is beneficial in casting lighter weights but there are also round reels that fit this criteria. I find the gear ratio number helpful in determing the reels cranking power but with newer oversized gear reels it becomes more confusing.
Just so you know:
For the zillionaire:
4.9:1 ratio = 6kg max drag
6.3:1 ratio = 6kg max drag
7.1:1 ratio = 5kg max drag
So, with that reel, the gear ratio and max drag did not change all that much.
When I say torque (fish pulling power) I am referring to the ability to gain line on a fish WITHOUT increasing the drag pressure. I am not say there is a correlation between max drag and gear ratio they are completely unrelated.
Charles is right.
I have a conquest 401 (JDM Version of the TE) and i have the Antares AR(JDM of calais) and personally, they are both really good reels. But the downside to the round baitcasters is the weight. i could cast all day with the low-profile without my wrist hurting. But how many of you could say that the round version is light enough for the whole day of casting.
First of all you are comparing a large round reel (400 size) to a small low profile. Again apples and oranges. If you are worried about your wrist hurting check out the Conquest 50S round reel, it weighs less than your Antares.
And if you say finesse, the amount of weight to start the intial rotation is much higher than a low-profile. The technology nowadays, they are making low-profiles that could hold even more line capacity than your regular round baitcaster. Don't get me wrong, when i go for sturgeons, i would use the conquest, but other than that, low-profile all the way. The new shimano low-profiles are really good in terms of line capacity and weight, from light lures to heavy, no problem
When I said finesse I was not talking about the start up of a reel I was referring to playing a fish. The only difference between a round and low profile reels in general is the shape of the side plates. More specifically round reels are predominately tailored (the innards of em) to our fisheries and low pros are for Bass et al.
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I am not talking about cranking down the max drag to fish. This is only a test to show what the max drag a reel has. And that is one of the comparsion from a reel to reel.
How is that a cruado 300 compare to a 300 calcutta to a 253 luna not a apple to apple comparsion? They both have the same size spool. Although the gear ratio is 6.2 : 1 with the curado and 5.0 : 1 with the 300TE, both reel behave the same...
I am surprise a salmon has never charged back faster than you can reel before... I have that experience with Chum... and open sea Spring...
And when I fish Blue fish and striper, we don't crank the reel all the way down to gain line. We fish the same as here; let the drag, the smoothness of the drag to fight the fish instead of our thumbs or fingers...
If the fish is pulling at 12lbs...
How will a 300 calcutta with a drag set at 10lbs with higher torque (like you said) be able to gain line?
How will a Revo STX (just for argument sake with lower torque) with a drag set at 10lbs gain line?
Both reels will not gain any line.
But if both reels set at 15 lbs... both reel should gain line on the fish regardless of the torque.
And lastly, I already mentioned about the braided line. Because of the lower line cap. for the Revo STX, you need to use braided if you want to up the poundage on your fish line and still have lots of line.
Just sharing some information about what I experience. Low profile has been one of those stereotype reel. It is not only for bass fishing. Anglers have asked and asked company like Diawa, Shimano, Abu to come up with inshore low profile, or heavier low profile cause it is just lighter, more comfortable, and preform just the same if not better in some sitituation than the traditional round reel. Hopefully with our discussion, the OP can determine what is good or what is not...
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I am not talking about cranking down the max drag to fish. This is only a test to show what the max drag a reel has. And that is one of the comparsion from a reel to reel.
How is that a cruado 300 compare to a 300 calcutta to a 253 luna not a apple to apple comparsion? They both have the same size spool. Although the gear ratio is 6.2 : 1 with the curado and 5.0 : 1 with the 300TE, both reel behave the same...
When I said apples and oranges I was talking about the comparison between river fishing (what the OP wanted the reel for) and the type of fishing you said the Revo had been tested on.
I am surprise a salmon has never charged back faster than you can reel before... I have that experience with Chum... and open sea Spring...
And when I fish Blue fish and striper, we don't crank the reel all the way down to gain line. We fish the same as here; let the drag, the smoothness of the drag to fight the fish instead of our thumbs or fingers...
If the fish is pulling at 12lbs...
How will a 300 calcutta with a drag set at 10lbs with higher torque (like you said) be able to gain line?
How will a Revo STX (just for argument sake with lower torque) with a drag set at 10lbs gain line?
Both reels will not gain any line.
But if both reels set at 15 lbs... both reel should gain line on the fish regardless of the torque.
The way I "finesse" a fish in is by giving it line when it wants it and only increasing drag pressure if neccessary (obstruction, end of bank, etc.) you then make your way down river while reeling in the slack to gain line on the fish with the lessened pressure they will usually stop running, if you are able get 90 degrees of the fish then slowly pump them in using the bend of your rod (a slower action rod helps here) to protect your leader from snapping. By slowly pulling up on the rod then dropping it and reeling in the slack you can successfully bring in a fish weighing much more than the rating of both your line and drag. Otherwise if you are asking how I would pull in a fish when he is making a running and exerting more than 12lbs of pull on the spool I would tell you that I use the drag to slow down the fish and tire him out quicker not try and reel him in against the way he is going. The above mostly pertains to landing large salmon like springs but others as well.
And lastly, I already mentioned about the braided line. Because of the lower line cap. for the Revo STX, you need to use braided if you want to up the poundage on your fish line and still have lots of line.
I am a big fan of braid I use it for most applications, but I don't use 72lb leader approx enough to withstand a big spring etc. running against 24lbs drag pressure (maybe slightly over stated but you get the picture.)
Just sharing some information about what I experience. Low profile has been one of those stereotype reel.
I feel the same in that round reels seem to have a stereotype of being heavy but in my opinion the only major difference in the two reels is the shape of the side plates as there are round reels that can stand up against just about any low profile in every category except that some people like how the low profile sits lower down on the rod for plaming but not me. The Pixy would be a small exception in the casting of light lures but I bet a tuned up Conquest would give it a run for its money.
It is not only for bass fishing. Anglers have asked and asked company like Diawa, Shimano, Abu to come up with inshore low profile, or heavier low profile cause it is just lighter, more comfortable, and preform just the same if not better in some sitituation than the traditional round reel. Hopefully with our discussion, the OP can determine what is good or what is not...
I agree but I think the OP i getting more info than he bargained for... ;D
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I am surprise a salmon has never charged back faster than you can reel before... I have that experience with Chum... and open sea Spring...
It happens once in a while but I have never found the retrieval speed to be lacking.
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i think the OP is more confused now... :)
The max drag i gave is to the extremn end. It is a measurement of what a reel can do if crank down. Otherwise, there is no way to tell the differences in power of the reel.
You talking about how you fish as well... But reel preformance should be base on the spec of the reel, don't you think? We know that the drag is used to tired the fish out, not to set at 24lbs to crank in a 24lbs fish... And to finesse a fish is more of a personal style but not so much in compare spec. of reels. You have a great style but you can do just the same with the low profile...
Don't get me wrong. I do not like the Revo cause the screw in the front sometimes will be in the way of my finger (the way I palm it), and I heard rumor that one batch is great, and another batch has some minor problem; RUMOR. But with the higher adjustment in drag and the lower in weight and choice of cranking handle or the regular handle, it is a good choice if you are looking for luna 253 or calcutta 300. Even the zillionaire looks great... There is just so many choices besides the traditional round reels. But because of our tackle shop, it is rarely a choice for anglers. I guess they don't want to stuck with no one is buying them too :)
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How is that a cruado 300 compare to a 300 calcutta to a 253 luna not a apple to apple comparsion? They both have the same size spool. Although the gear ratio is 6.2 : 1 with the curado and 5.0 : 1 with the 300TE, both reel behave the same...
Eventhough I haven't use those exact reels I am quite sure they do not behave exactly the same as I said early the 300TE will have more cranking power, torque whatever you want to call it. Think about it if there was no advantage to having a lower gear ratio wouldn't all high end reels sport a high gear ratio? Why would manufacturers make three different gear ratios for the same reel such as the zillionaire wouldn't everyone just buy the high speed model?
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hahaha.
it's all good. we should all just come out for a test or something. maybe sometimes in words, it's hard to illustrate what we are trying to say. But none the less, these are all very interesting points.
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I still don't see how a round baitcaster will have more cranking power than a low profile in a side by side comparsion with comparable reels.
Let's try this...
A 200 calcutta will be the same size as the zillionaire. Use both as example... both are avaiable in the low gear ratio. I would think these both reel will behave the same.
Some people prefer lower gear ratio, some people prefer higher. But in reel like zillionaire, the spec did not change all that much in the lower range. This is how I see a gear ratio different for different condition of fishing...
When I fish for albacore, they do require a much faster reeling in when presenting with lure... At least that was what my friend shows me how to get those fish with big bait... I guess I can always crazy crank the slower one... When fishing for bass with carolina jig, I do prefer a slower rate of reeling. I guess I can also slow down my higher ratio one... but that is kind of beating the purpose of the gear ratio...
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I still don't see how a round baitcaster will have more cranking power than a low profile in a side by side comparsion with comparable reels.
Let's try this...
A 200 calcutta will be the same size as the zillionaire. Use both as example... both are avaiable in the low gear ratio. I would think these both reel will behave the same.
::) If they both have the same gear ratio ( and to a lesser degree size of spool) then yes they would have the same cranking power. I never said they wouldn't.
Some people prefer lower gear ratio, some people prefer higher. But in reel like zillionaire, the spec did not change all that much in the lower range. This is how I see a gear ratio different for different condition of fishing...
When I fish for albacore, they do require a much faster reeling in when presenting with lure... At least that was what my friend shows me how to get those fish with big bait... I guess I can always crazy crank the slower one... When fishing for bass with carolina jig, I do prefer a slower rate of reeling. I guess I can also slow down my higher ratio one... but that is kind of beating the purpose of the gear ratio...
Sorry but retrieval speed is not the only factor in gear ratios so is torque. Hopefully someone else in the know will chime in on the subject and put the matter to rest.
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This is taken from an article on reels from the site http://www.nccoastalfishing.com/fishing_reel.htm (http://www.nccoastalfishing.com/fishing_reel.htm)
Gear Ratio
Another key consideration when purchasing a reel is gear ratio, which refers to how many revolutions the spool makes with each complete turn of the reel handle. This determines, in part, how rapidly line is retrieved as the angler cranks the handle. Spinning reels, baitcasters and conventional models can offer differing gear ratios, ranging from slow retrieves (ie. 2-1 or 3-1) to high-speed retrieves (4-1 to 6-1). Reels with high-speed gear ratios are better for working lures quickly back to the boat, or gaining line in a hurry when a fish charges toward the boat. Models featuring lower gear ratios don’t offer as fast a retrieve, but provide the greater cranking power ideal for bottom fishing and trolling
applications. Anglers thinking about buying a heavier-duty conventional reel, may want to consider purchasing a two-speed model. While pricier than their single speed cousins, two-speed reels provide the best of both worlds when it comes to retrieve speed and cranking power. With a two-speed reel, an angler can shift at will from the faster-retrieve of “high gear,” to the more powerful “low gear” with a simple push or pull of a button.
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That is what I am saying all along... 4:1 - 6:1 makes not so much of a different. Remember, I was trying to compare the Revo STX to the shimano calcutta. You can also change the handle to gain a bit cranking power on the Revo.
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::) Myself I find a large difference when going from 5.0 to 5.3 I would not consider buying a 6.4 : 1 reel for salmon fishing. I find with my 5.3 I have to tighten down the drag far too often which results in lost fish. It is neat that a cranking handle is available for the revo but the extra leverage it provides will not help when the line is slipping due to lack of torque, you will still need to tighten down the drag to gain line. There are also cranking handles available for both the Daiwa and Shimano.
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Oops I just checked the specs of my reel that always feels undergunned (in the torque dept) even when fishing cap cohos or retrieving my lure when the water is high (line slips until I increase the drag) and it is rated at 6.3 : 1 not 5.3 . But even still I would not recommend that someone buy a reel with that high of a ratio for salmon fishing as I myself do not feel the reel is adaquate. I bought it for casting small lures cause it has a narrow spool but I will be replacing it with a small reel in the 5 : 1 category.
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The line slip because of the drag, not because of the lack of torque. The drag is pre-determine set to before the line breaking point.
And let me clarify that it is not 6lbs line set at 6lbs drag. Setup your reel and rod, then run the line through, tie the end of the line to a weight scale, and set your drag while pulling your rod to your desire highest point... Everyone sets up the desire weight/drag differently. Some people sets weight half of the line breakage, some sets 1/4... That is up to you.
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this is what you said in a earlier post.
The max drag i gave is to the extremn end. It is a measurement of what a reel can do if crank down. Otherwise, there is no way to tell the differences in power of the reel.
torque which is related to gear ratio is part of the equation in the power of a reel. Max drag is not everything.
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The line slip because of the drag, not because of the lack of torque. The drag is pre-determine set to before the line breaking point.
I disagree my reels with a low gear ratio have no problem reeling in lures against a strong current with the drag set loose but with my 6.3 I have to keep it tight in order to reel through fast current. If you are right then where does the torque of the reel come into play. Again you are acting as though it doesn't exist.
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But it is a way to compare reel. Look, there is some standard of testing a reel. And it is a standard to put what a reel can do. I am not saying max drag is everything. It is also some of the ways you can make your decision on buying a reel.
Look at the box or search online, when choosing a reel, line cap, weight of reel, material, max drag, but never mention about the torque...
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I am not saying it doesn't exist. Current adds to strength of pulling back.
Let me give you an example:
pulling against slower current say 1lb and your drag set at 1.5lb. you gain line
pulling against faster current say 2lb cause the current is working against you, the reel will slip cause of drag setting.
This is just an assumption number so I thought this would clear it up.
I think we are going way off topic. You can phone me if you want and we can discuss this further more. The OP must hate us now :)
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But it is a way to compare reel. Look, there is some standard of testing a reel. And it is a standard to put what a reel can do. I am not saying max drag is everything. It is also some of the ways you can make your decision on buying a reel.
Look at the box or search online, when choosing a reel, line cap, weight of reel, material, max drag, but never mention about the torque...
::) As I stated earlier the gear ratio is a measurment of torque. The true measurment of retrieval speed is in inches per crank which some manufacturers will provide. Why do you think most high end Shimanos now feature HEG gearing which provides increased torque. It is the major selling point of the TE which again I already stated.
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If you roll your eyes any further, you are not going to be able to roll them back to where they should be...
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I am not saying it doesn't exist. Current adds to strength of pulling back.
Let me give you an example:
pulling against slower current say 1lb and your drag set at 1.5lb. you gain line
pulling against faster current say 2lb cause the current is working against you, the reel will slip cause of drag setting.
This is just an assumption number so I thought this would clear it up.
I think we are going way off topic. You can phone me if you want and we can discuss this further more. The OP must hate us now :)
You still haven't answered my question, where does the torque of the reel provided from the low gear ratio come into play according to your theory?
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;D LOL Rodney
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I don't know where the torque comes in. To my understand, the torque will give you an easier time to reel with load. But it is not to determine when fishing line is slip. A higher torque reel with a 10lb drag set will slip line if the load is more than 10lbs. And this will go with a lower torque reel as well. Like your article pointed out 4 - 6 as high ratio and 2 - 3 is low ratio. I am sure if you go to the lower ratio, the torque will be much more noticeable.
Notice shimano did not make reel with different HEG. Torque is not measured in how much a reel has compare to others. It can be changed by gears as simple as changing the position of your handle bar. So it is not a true way to measure or compare a reel from another reel.
I am not one of those reel tester as my full time job. But I do use reels for a longer period of time to know some different in reels. And I do only talk about reels that I have used or tried. It is not just something I thought up. I am only passing on what I know with fishing with people in Hi's Tackle box, fisherman's landing, as well as talking to skippers fishing in the Barrier reef, and Tailand. But I do learn of what I know fishing with people in Hi's both salt and fresh. And I still do talk to them every once a while to scoop news about new reels.
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Notice shimano did not make reel with different HEG. Torque is not measured in how much a reel has compare to others. It can be changed by gears as simple as changing the position of your handle bar. So it is not a true way to measure or compare a reel from another reel.
Yes it is again the gear ratio number is for comparing torque and inches per crank is for retrieval speed. I'm don't have the specs for every HEG reel but the ones with a higher ratio will have less torque.
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I am sure it is a bit hgiher... But often it is not noticeable...
Remember how this post is started... it is helping the OP to choose a reel. How would the OP choose a reel thinking he can't find any information about comparsion of torque? Even with each of the shimano reel, you can't measure the torque. And there is no other way to compare to torque with other brand of reels.
Take a look at place that test reel. Often enough, torque is no way mention or very min. for reels we talk about here. It might be a big factors with 2 speed reels cause the ratio is so low.
Ratio = 5:1 , 1 complete turn of your handle = 5 complete roll of your spool... = line recovery rate...
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I guess you can go by ratio to determine which reels have higher or lower torque. But here comes the questions...
1) no way to determine if that 5:1 ratio gives so much more torque or noticable torque than the 6:1 ratio reel.
2) how do you compare a 5:1 ratio shimano reel to a 5:1 ratio diawa reel? I would think with HEG and whatever diawa and abu system, a shimano 5:1 ratio HEG reel has different torque than the other companies with the same ratio reels.
I re-read the whole post again. I have to admit that torque goes up as the speed or recovery rate or ratio goes down.
And is it because the change is not noticeable that the companies do not bother to post it as a comparison? Like your article pointed out, the ratio number is really used for anglers to determine lure retriveal rate until the point of low ratio 2:1 - 3:1...
It will be interesting if someone has the time to do a real test...
You can't change a ratio on say a 400 calcutta... But we can change the ratio by changing the length of the handle.
I am not a math guy so I can't tell you. But someone in here could figure out the numbers...
Regular handle for 5:1 ratio
A handle (determine length to change the ratio to 6.2:1 if possible).
A handle (determine length to change the ratio to 3:1 if possible).
tie a pound of weight
Predetermine the drag... and reel in against the current...
This is my assumption:
1) all of them will slip if the pulling pressure is higher than the pre-determin drag setting.
2) 3:1 handle will reel in much easier but takes longer cause slower speed - less water friction coming in.
3) a 6:2-1 handle and the regular MIGHT reel in with harder effort compare to a 3:1handle but compare the regular and 6.2:1 handle the different might not noticable.
Or someone is rich enough to get all 3 ratio zillionaire and do a side by side comparison :)
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this is so pointless...
you win, you happy?
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You guys are a bunch of rambling fisherman. Time to give it a break. Torque really has nothing to do with gear ratio at all. Torque is what is being applied by you the fisherman as you turn the handle. Which in turn is supplied to the gears. The longer the handle the more torque being applied. All the gear ratio helps with is retreival speed. So everyone go ahead and buy the reel that you want to buy. Don't base it on these guys' ramblings. If it were me being the judge charles is the winner. :P Rule of thumb the bigger the fish you are after the bigger the reel.
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Wow,did this ever go sideways. ;D
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See guys, everyone is laughing at your guys. Like i said, just come out and give it a try. And at the same time, you will meet more people and stuff. It's not about winning or losing. It's all about exchanging ideas. :)
Anyways, if any of you that comes out during the pink run, i will be on the fraser near the dock on No.3. And i will be using my Antares AR. :)
Drunker
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It is not about winning or losing... Just sharing information and passing on to others...
I too will be fishing on the fraser in Richmond.
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Is it true that a longer rod gives you greater leverage on a fish?
Archimedes once said "give me a place to stand on, and I will move the earth."
Some people use short rods for big fish, would that not go against the logic of Archimedes?
(http://www.dramatispersonae.org/IRR/IRRPowerOfLeverageGoalSetting_files/image009.jpg)
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Dennis:
I can only tell you what I was told to use in boats in different areas...
In San Francisco, a longer rod 8-10' for fishing for Lings, football size tuna, cods, and salmon. In NY, a shorter rod 4-5' for fishing for bluefish, large flounders.
In Australia, a shorter rod 4-5' for fishing for reef fish like cuda, wasse, and anything that is there.
Fishing for halibut here, I prefer my 6' rod.
I guess it is just the different styles in different places.
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Ratio = 5:1 , 1 complete turn of your handle = 5 complete roll of your spool... = line recovery rate...
I did not say gear ratios were not related to line recovery rate what I did say was inches per crank is a better way of comparing retrival speeds since spool size is also a factor. ie A larger spool reel of the same gear ratio will retrieve line faster. Personally I look at a gear ratio to determine the torque of a reel based on my previous experience using reels of various ratios. You are right that Shimanos HEG will have more torque than a reel of the same ratio but that is what I said earlier that with new oversized gears it makes things more confusing but manufactures in the fishing industry seem to like to make it so.
stlhd4ever Obviously you didn't even bother to read (or possibly understand) most of the thread as we are not talking about reels of different sizes we are comparing gear ratios. Furthermore you can apply all the hand "torque" you want but if the line is slipping you are not acheiving anything this is where the torque of the reel comes into play. Yes a longer handle will make it easier for you to reel in something heavy but if your gear ratio is too high it will require clamping down on the drag which can result in lost fish. ie when a big spring decides to make on last run as you get him in close, the result will be a broken leader, dislodged hook, etc. I know I am wasting my time with you but torque is not only what the fisherman applies to the reel go back and read the thread so as to edumacte yourself.
Jig Head Charles is right this is not about winning it is about learning and a debate is a good avenue for this. I think it's about time we had some more informative posts instead of useless chatter.
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Charles I understand you don't think there is a big difference in torque going from 4:1 to 6:1 but I myself have found a big difference and that is why I will be selling my 6.3:1 reel as it doesn't provide enough torque for the way I fish. I tend to pay attention to detail which I think is important when it comes to fishing but I can see how other may not notice as you can still gain line without slipping by increasing the drag (something I don't always want to do). But I have said my piece people can take what they want from it or mark it off as hogwash it doesn't matter to me. When it comes to fishing I am always learning and IMO people who think they know everything cause they have caught fish will be slow to evolve. Your loss.
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Eagleeye
I,ve read every post in this thread. And came to the conclusion that you are an idiot. What you are saying is that my c4 is not adequate enough to haul in big fish because of my higher gear ratio than a c3 that is complete bs. I've never had to clamp down on my drag enough to lose a fish of any size in the fraser. And by the way your line doesn't slip, it is your spool that doesn't spin. It doesn't matter what your gear ratio is it is the tug of the fish that determines how to set your drag. And the whole reel size thing I just put that in there because people seem to think that braid is the cure all. The smaller reels are usually made for lighter line sizes. "but it is the leader that matters" isn't the case. If you are snagged on your mainline and you have 60 lb braid on there and the reel is made for 12 - 15 lb test that is alot of stress on the reel parts to try and come loose. Which in turn means faster wear on parts. They make different size reels for a reason. Oh and one more thing this thread isn't about gear ratios it is about which calcutta is the best choice. So put your foot where your mouth is get back to the real subject.
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Eagleeye
I,ve read every post in this thread. And came to the conclusion that you are an idiot. What you are saying is that my c4 is not adequate enough to haul in big fish because of my higher gear ratio than a c3 that is complete bs. I've never had to clamp down on my drag enough to lose a fish of any size in the fraser. And by the way your line doesn't slip, it is your spool that doesn't spin.
When I said line slip that is what I meant I thought it was obvious. And it all depends on how you play them I didn't say it wasn't possible to land big fish with a high gear ratio, it is just beneficial to have a lower one.
The smaller reels are usually made for lighter line sizes. "but it is the leader that matters" isn't the case. If you are snagged on your mainline and you have 60 lb braid on there and the reel is made for 12 - 15 lb test that is alot of stress on the reel parts to try and come loose. Which in turn means faster wear on parts. They make different size reels for a reason.
that's why if you get a snag, especially in strong current like on the Fraser you should back off your drag and wrap your line around a stick to relieve the pressure from your spool and pull free.
Oh and one more thing this thread isn't about gear ratios it is about which calcutta is the best choice. So put your foot where your mouth is get back to the real subject.
::) I got on the topic of gear ratios because I didn't want the OP to make the same mistake I did and buy a reel with too high a gear ratio. But to each there own I guess. I'm only sharing my experience and preference.
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Calm down, we were just having a discussion. There is more reels choices than just the calcutta. The OP and others recommanded the smaller model of the calcutta and that is why I posted about other styles of reels.
I don't know about you but I do benefit from reading other people's opinions.
We all know the line slip means the drag can't take the pleasure, therefore, your spool slips. So don't pick apart each words on the post and start a fight.
As for smaller reel for ligther line, it might be truth years ago. But now most companies are putting most of the money on developing and now producing reels that are smaller, stronger, and mainly for braided line. Let me give you an example, Saltiga round reel. This reel is small compare to most offshore reel, but they pack better gears and produce more focus than other companies bigger reel. So believe it or not, the newer smaller low profile doesn't mean lighter line only. But line capacity seems to be a major problem though... And no one is saying putting 60lbs test on them. I don't even fish 20lbs test with the chum. And think 1/2 or 1/3 or 1/4 of line breakage pleasure on your reel, it is not a lot of pleasure.
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I got a Conquest which is JPN model of TE, it's a nice reel, spins well good drag but a bit on the heavy side. Calcutta 400b is a good all around reel light weight, smooth, however, doesn't spin as freely as TE. Luna 300 in my opinion is the best in terms of casting. Spins well and has a magnaforce control on sideplate to aide casting in windy conditions or other bazzar casting situation. TE spins well but without the aide you can get frustrated with birdnests in less than ideal casting condition. I end up using TE for mooching.
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I agree the Luna results in less birdsnest but the 300 model uses centriflex braking and the smaller ones use Magforce. I think the decrease in birdsnest is due to the Centriflex system and the longer more oval shape of the line guide.
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I'll admit maybe I was trying to start something with my ramblings but that's only because it is the internet and nobody knows who I am. I really know nothing about the internal guts and stuff. I buy the best equipment that I can afford and suits me and use it. I put most of my time and energy into catching fish. I maintain my gear and it never lets me down. Personally the higher gear ratios suit me because I can retreive faster and get more casts in. More casts =more fish in a days worth of fishing. If only I could rig a motor on my pin. ???
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When mooching in fast tide flow yap I would definitely like high line retrieve. Better yet a motorized would be best. 100' ~ 200' of line plus 6~10oz weight, it's alot of work.
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I believe Diawa makes motorized reels. I am not sure they are in the North American market though.