Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Xgolfman on July 10, 2007, 03:09:34 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFWeXVZehAE
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WHOA!!! thats a must have for my collection! :)
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I got my new Milner Talisman about 2 weeks ago ..... 4 1/2 inch / Bronze cage / Aluminum drum.
It's staying in the box for a while ::) ... in the meantime I'll use my other Centrepins.
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I got my new Milner Talisman about 2 weeks ago ..... 4 1/2 inch / Bronze cage / Aluminum drum.
It's staying in the box for a while ::) ... in the meantime I'll use my other Centrepins.
Nice! So did the roe man and I ..however he fished it a bit :-X
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Hey Roekid whats the point of having a jillion centerpins? Once were old enough to drive. I'll be on my way to the river with my ONE nice centerpin setup, while your begging me for a ride because you spent all your money on your 3 kingfishers
THERE addicting! And im working like 28 hours a week ..soo I got some spaire cash to buy them ;D When I want a care I may have to sell a few..no biggy :D
ps: ill remember this when your begging me to pick you up :o Ill have my license in a few months
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Thats ok, I won't. I dont fish with beeks. Especially beeks that bonk endangered summerrun steelhead :o
ahaha...Hey atleast i caught a summer run.....And hmm if my memory serves me correct...Did I out fish you?? HMMMM I THINK I DID ;D
You were so desperate I even saw you flossin with your yellow raincoat the other day ;D
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Thats ok, I won't. I dont fish with beeks. Especially beeks that bonk endangered summerrun steelhead :o
ahaha...Hey atleast i caught a summer run.....And hmm if my memory serves me correct...Did I out fish you?? HMMMM I THINK I DID ;D
You were so desperate I even saw you flossin with your yellow raincoat the other day ;D
My raincoat was green dumbass. I had yellow boots. I swear I wasnn't flossing. Those fish were just hammering the green wool. Some of em bit so hard they missed and got hooked in the side!!!
Sorry Maybe it was the 2nd time you had your yellow jacket.... ;D Alright this ends here sam..we dont want to anger rodney :) He does enough work on here. Ghost Fish I believe it will go for 500$
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np...you should of left your old post ;)
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I've heard a lot of fisherman say "wow, look at it spin"..."it spins forever"...etc
But what's the point of it spinning by itself forever with no line on it or nothing?
When you put line on it and a float and lead and cast it, the momentum of that action along with river will create a drag free drift (which is really all that matters). You could have a 30 yr old centrepin that just spins half assed on its own BUT on the river it will fish just as well as any of these pimped up models due to gravitational forces.
Isn't the "spin" effect just for fisherman? Sort of like pimped up rims....
(http://www.ichibanhydraulics.com/images/spin1.gif)
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I've heard a lot of fisherman say "wow, look at it spin"..."it spins forever"...etc
But what's the point of it spinning by itself forever with no line on it or nothing?
When you put line on it and a float and lead and cast it, the momentum of that action along with river will create a drag free drift (which is really all that matters). You could have a 30 yr old centrepin that just spins half assed on its own BUT on the river it will fish just as well as any of these pimped up models due to gravitational forces.
Isn't the "spin" effect just for fisherman? Sort of like pimped up rims....
(http://www.ichibanhydraulics.com/images/spin1.gif)
Yes and No... it's not worth much if it only spins in your hand but sucks on the flow...and yes, I've seen old avons that fish fine but with lots of lead...that is a bearing model, 5" and I believe he's selling them for the mid 500's... They are all sold out and you'd have to wait for the next batch...BUT back to dk's question...the bearings have a much easier start up and will cast further and with less weight... I'm not about to get into any b.s. argument about "Yeah so will my bushing model" as I own both...what I've found with the bearing ones..(Good bearing ones, German apec 5 or 7 models)...is they take a little getting used to but are so smooth it's ridiculous...You see allot of really small presentations being fished with these back east...like tiny split shot and 11 gram floats to 6 pound flour. and it handles that perfectly...While we normally don't have to worry about that out here, it is nice to be able to go to that when/if the water ever gets gin clear again or if your fishing norrish for coho's etc...My new baby arrives today..
(http://www.fishingwithrod.com/albums/golfman65/100_1236crop_414.jpg)
kind of looks like your wheels...
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Bearing start up is important for line retrieval and for the guys that fish slow moving water that is mostly fished back east. Some of the water they fish moves slower than the ditches in Langley and don't want their float coming towards the bank and having to manually let line out due to poor start-up of their drum.
This next batch of reels going out has a price increase in effect. The 5" Kingfishers are $585 CAD, bearing or bushing. The smaller Kingfishers are $500.
Tight lines guys, cheers.
E
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Bearing start up is important for line retrieval and for the guys that fish slow moving water that is mostly fished back east. Some of the water they fish moves slower than the ditches in Langley and don't want their float coming towards the bank and having to manually let line out due to poor start-up of their drum.
This next batch of reels going out has a price increase in effect. The 5" Kingfishers are $585 CAD, bearing or bushing. The smaller Kingfishers are $500.
Tight lines guys, cheers.
E
Would you be Eric by any chance??? would be nice to get a full report on what's happening up there... ;)
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Would you be Eric by any chance??? would be nice to get a full report on what's happening up there... ;)
You bet! How can I help? What would you like to know?
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Hey Big E....If you ever decide to sell your bushing model let me know, it's still the nicest one I've seen.
CK
PS Love the bearing model although it's only been out a handful of times.
For sure man, will do.
Why only a handful of times? They were made for using ;D
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You bet! How can I help? What would you like to know?
When are you guys going to join the other advertisers so we can hook all the members up with the goods? ;D
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Hi Rodney, hows it going man!? Great to hear from you again.
I'm just about finished making all the content needed for making a new site and it will be hosted at www.JohnMilnerReels.com The coding is being done right now and hopefully live by mid-Aug. After we have that up, we'll be getting in contact with you. We weren't going to do any advertising before the site was done and it's almost done, and I can't wait. It's been over a year in the making...
Cheers man,
Eric
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Just bugging you. ;) No point advertising when there isn't a website to show. :) I'm sure everyone is looking forward to see the completed website in August. We'll be in touch. ;)
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Hey Eric,
I'd like to know the real differences between bushing and bearing models...what differences the german apec bearings play over standard bearings and if the 5 or 7 is a better bearing? How you came about with the 5" version and do you think that will be the future of pins...Are you looking at any other models, i.e. A.R. Drag versions???
What do you see as the future of pin fishing on the west coast and mid west? and differences you see in producing pins for each..
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Hey Paul,by any change,did you do a comparison between your new centerpin reel and your old mykiss,or the bearing kingfisher,and what is your end result?? Thanks
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Hey Paul,by any change,did you do a comparison between your new centerpin reel and your old mykiss,or the bearing kingfisher,and what is your end result?? Thanks
I sure did...Merc bought the mykiss AND we went looking for you on sunday so you'd have a chance to check um out but couldn't find ya.
Both are very nice reels, the mykiss being 5" picks up line faster, but not by allot and on Merc's 13' rod casts a mile...The angspec. has a better start up, almost nothing to get it going and is about the smoothest thing out there that I've tried...Merc and I went back and forth, or rather Merc did as I suck at left handed casting and was pretty amazed at how smooth it is...As far as construction, well nothing seems to compare to the angspec. it's stunning AND functional...I would really like to compare the mykiss and milner 5" model..that would be interesting...My only real complaint with the mykiss is the clicker...it is almost non existant and bothered the heck out of me on the water..Merc is more in tune with it...
I am honestly surprised at how nice the angspec. actually is....It would have no problem handling any fishing situation...I'm having a 13'7 8/9 spey blank built into a pin rod and will be very interested in seeing how it works with it as a combo rod for steelhead and salmon..but honestly in the end...I still love my fly and spey gear the most...That brings me the most enjoyment..but when the conditions warrant it, I won't have any problem pulling out the pin!!!
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Hey Paul,thanks for the reply,sounds like your ang spec is a good investment or even the mykiss,i was planning to get hold of one,but end up bought another milner talisman instead,i quess i am a typical bc man ;) :D.
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We'll be up there on the weekend, so we'll keep an eye open for you Big T. Then you can do a side by side comparison. I gotta say though, as much as I like the Mykiss, that Angspec puts it to shame for startup. Mind you, I need to "tinker" with the Mykiss still.....
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Hey Eric,
I'd like to know the real differences between bushing and bearing models...what differences the german apec bearings play over standard bearings and if the 5 or 7 is a better bearing? How you came about with the 5" version and do you think that will be the future of pins...Are you looking at any other models, i.e. A.R. Drag versions???
What do you see as the future of pin fishing on the west coast and mid west? and differences you see in producing pins for each..
Xgolfman, excellent questions! Sorry it took a few days to get back to you. we're so busy in the shop and about to get 85 reels out over the next couple weeks.
"I'd like to know the real differences between bushing and bearing models..."
Simply different horses for different courses, imo. Ball bearing reels have quicker start up, but less inertia. They require more maintenance as a well looked after bushing reel should last forever if oiled properly. I'm a bushing man myself, they're simple and quiet. But I am impressed how easily a ball bearing reel, with good bearings, turns. But there's something marvelous about a bushing reel that spins so easily without bearings and one wonders why anyone would want bearings. My dad puts alot of time into his bushing reels. Every pin is matched for size to every bushing, like down to the 0.0005, and then lapped with polishing compound.
"what differences the german apec bearings play over standard bearings"
We're learning too eh as we go along, I'm not an expert. Abec is a rating applied the tolerance, or how much gap/play there is between the balls and the bearing races. The higher the abec number, the less the gap. However, this standard does not apply to materials used or quality of bearing race, the surface the balls track in. American and Chinese made bearings, imo, have the worst bearing races and the German and Japanese have the best. This is not easy to answer carte blanche. I can take an abec-3 made in Japan and it will be better than an abe-7 made in America. The smoother the race, the better the bearing. Also lube is another factor, some bearings come with grease, some with oil, and others with light oil.
"and if the 5 or 7 is a better bearing?"
this depends on manufacture. if you were to take an abec rated bearing from one manufacture, and take their abec-3, abec-5, and abec-7, then yes, the abec-7 would certainly be better. But you can not take an abec-7 from America or China and expect it to be better than an abec-7 from Japan or Germany. The abec rating is almost useless to us for fishing reels. Country of origin and brand of manufacture is more important. I'd only look at abec ratings if I was making pneumatic dental equipment that needs 40,000 rpm. Abec rating however is important to my dad for noise levels. He hates noisy reels and the only reason he hasn't made a bearing reel until date is because of the noise. And that they don't last forever and need maintenance. But we look at higher abec ratings to simply keep the noise down. Pre-loading the bearing is very important too for noise.
"How you came about with the 5" version"
More or less, I twisted my dads arm until he got fed up with me pestering him. First, I posted a picture of his bushing 5" he made years ago on the quest forum last fall (summer?) and requests started coming in for a bearing type. To nail the coffin, I took it along to his dealers this past December. I also mentioned it to a dealer of his in Ohio and he started working my Dad too. A couple months later, just from internet chat, we had 40 private requests on the waiting list. We started out with 36, I wrecked a couple on the milling machine, a couple went down due to anodizing issues but hopefully this week we can ship 30 of them or so.
"and do you think that will be the future of pins..."
I think it will grow rapidly elsewhere in the US, especially in newer areas like on the west coast ie. North California to Washington.
"Are you looking at any other models, i.e. A.R. Drag versions???"
No way man...We're swamped as it is just trying to get the current models out. And the clicker currently being used is well liked. I'd like to make a spey reel though, with one.
"What do you see as the future of pin fishing on the west coast and mid west?"
i think the west coast of the states is going to grow. i think locally here it will grow a bit more, but i'm so terrified at the moment of what the pine beetle is doing to the trees and what will happen with shade on the streams. I dunno...hang on and see and hope for the best. And should mention, we're not too sure what or who will govern the land in 5/10/20 years from now. It might be all corporate or native owned and controlled. Might become expensive to angle...hard to predict. Enjoy it while you can, that's for sure.
"and differences you see in producing pins for each."
I'm not sure what you mean? As you know they're totally different water types between east and west and casting styles. Fortunately for my dad, the kingfisher is versatile and fairly easy for him to make into a bearing or a bushing reel. I think the Kingfisher drum is excellent for the west coast, but if I was to start from scratch and make it for the east, I'd make a shallower drum so it didn't hold the line that it currently does. And I'd put the handles a little further out from centre and put large finger holes in the drum too, ie stanton and MyKiss.
Great questions, great to take a break and hopefully have answered some of your questions.
Cheers,
Eric
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Haha, i guess i should fix my trophy, it spins for like 1:30, not very long. Time to go to mikes reel repare and get the trophy and my big game penn fixed.(Marlin reel) In the trophy seems like a few of the gears are rubbing or the bearings are shot. and the GLD 20 something broke and is jammed inside.
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Hey Eric,
I'd like to know the real differences between bushing and bearing models...what differences the german apec bearings play over standard bearings and if the 5 or 7 is a better bearing? How you came about with the 5" version and do you think that will be the future of pins...Are you looking at any other models, i.e. A.R. Drag versions???
What do you see as the future of pin fishing on the west coast and mid west? and differences you see in producing pins for each..
Xgolfman, excellent questions! Sorry it took a few days to get back to you. we're so busy in the shop and about to get 85 reels out over the next couple weeks.
"I'd like to know the real differences between bushing and bearing models..."
Simply different horses for different courses, imo. Ball bearing reels have quicker start up, but less inertia. They require more maintenance as a well looked after bushing reel should last forever if oiled properly. I'm a bushing man myself, they're simple and quiet. But I am impressed how easily a ball bearing reel, with good bearings, turns. But there's something marvelous about a bushing reel that spins so easily without bearings and one wonders why anyone would want bearings. My dad puts alot of time into his bushing reels. Every pin is matched for size to every bushing, like down to the 0.0005, and then lapped with polishing compound.
"what differences the german apec bearings play over standard bearings"
We're learning too eh as we go along, I'm not an expert. Abec is a rating applied the tolerance, or how much gap/play there is between the balls and the bearing races. The higher the abec number, the less the gap. However, this standard does not apply to materials used or quality of bearing race, the surface the balls track in. American and Chinese made bearings, imo, have the worst bearing races and the German and Japanese have the best. This is not easy to answer carte blanche. I can take an abec-3 made in Japan and it will be better than an abe-7 made in America. The smoother the race, the better the bearing. Also lube is another factor, some bearings come with grease, some with oil, and others with light oil.
"and if the 5 or 7 is a better bearing?"
this depends on manufacture. if you were to take an abec rated bearing from one manufacture, and take their abec-3, abec-5, and abec-7, then yes, the abec-7 would certainly be better. But you can not take an abec-7 from America or China and expect it to be better than an abec-7 from Japan or Germany. The abec rating is almost useless to us for fishing reels. Country of origin and brand of manufacture is more important. I'd only look at abec ratings if I was making pneumatic dental equipment that needs 40,000 rpm. Abec rating however is important to my dad for noise levels. He hates noisy reels and the only reason he hasn't made a bearing reel until date is because of the noise. And that they don't last forever and need maintenance. But we look at higher abec ratings to simply keep the noise down. Pre-loading the bearing is very important too for noise.
"How you came about with the 5" version"
More or less, I twisted my dads arm until he got fed up with me pestering him. First, I posted a picture of his bushing 5" he made years ago on the quest forum last fall (summer?) and requests started coming in for a bearing type. To nail the coffin, I took it along to his dealers this past December. I also mentioned it to a dealer of his in Ohio and he started working my Dad too. A couple months later, just from internet chat, we had 40 private requests on the waiting list. We started out with 36, I wrecked a couple on the milling machine, a couple went down due to anodizing issues but hopefully this week we can ship 30 of them or so.
"and do you think that will be the future of pins..."
I think it will grow rapidly elsewhere in the US, especially in newer areas like on the west coast ie. North California to Washington.
"Are you looking at any other models, i.e. A.R. Drag versions???"
No way man...We're swamped as it is just trying to get the current models out. And the clicker currently being used is well liked. I'd like to make a spey reel though, with one.
"What do you see as the future of pin fishing on the west coast and mid west?"
i think the west coast of the states is going to grow. i think locally here it will grow a bit more, but i'm so terrified at the moment of what the pine beetle is doing to the trees and what will happen with shade on the streams. I dunno...hang on and see and hope for the best. And should mention, we're not too sure what or who will govern the land in 5/10/20 years from now. It might be all corporate or native owned and controlled. Might become expensive to angle...hard to predict. Enjoy it while you can, that's for sure.
"and differences you see in producing pins for each."
I'm not sure what you mean? As you know they're totally different water types between east and west and casting styles. Fortunately for my dad, the kingfisher is versatile and fairly easy for him to make into a bearing or a bushing reel. I think the Kingfisher drum is excellent for the west coast, but if I was to start from scratch and make it for the east, I'd make a shallower drum so it didn't hold the line that it currently does. And I'd put the handles a little further out from centre and put large finger holes in the drum too, ie stanton and MyKiss.
Great questions, great to take a break and hopefully have answered some of your questions.
Cheers,
Eric
Thanks for all the Info. Eric...
I love the start up on the angspec. it's the smoothest I've tried...BUT..your sure right on the bushing and ease of care etc. I would LOVE to own one of your 5" models, bushing and with larger holes i.e. stanton etc. Would like it to handle the same amount of line but with the handles further out as you said...If you ever do come up with that model you can put me down for one!!! That would be one of the best reels ever IMHO
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Thanks for all the Info. Eric...
I love the start up on the angspec. it's the smoothest I've tried...BUT..your sure right on the bushing and ease of care etc. I would LOVE to own one of your 5" models, bushing and with larger holes i.e. stanton etc. Would like it to handle the same amount of line but with the handles further out as you said...If you ever do come up with that model you can put me down for one!!! That would be one of the best reels ever IMHO
No worries man re info., the least I could do. Or try to do. It's a new world to me as well.
I've yet try an angl spec. I'm trying to trade for one actually. And a Danny Hale. Have you seen the Hale? 5.5" and they look so stout as well. And handmade. Anyway, our reels are going to dealers within a week if you want to check out a 5" bushing? Berry's has ordered a few 5" in both bearing and bushing and Dave at Highwater has one coming too. The rest of the local dealers haven't.
Cheers man,
E
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Thanks Eric,
I'll make sure and check um out...