Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Old Black Dog on April 30, 2007, 07:26:05 AM

Title: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Old Black Dog on April 30, 2007, 07:26:05 AM
The Province ( MOE) is planning to add a Sturgeon Stamp for 2008.
They say the $$ will go towards Sturgeon, however as noted on all the other stamps you pay for there is NO proof from them that this happens.
There is NO reason for this stamp as the information taken now by guides covers all they require.
If MOE needs these $ to evaluate the sturgeon, why now and not 20 years ago? Now this is a proven fishery and a catch and release fishery due to guides and anglers demanding this be, one cannot but wonder if this is not just a straight cash grab.


It is my understanding that they would like to implement a stamp similar to the steelhead stamp, which would cost residents an additional $25.00 plus tax per year and there is no day or two-day stamp.  If they succeed the stamp will cost the non-resident or non-resident aliens an additional $60.00 plus tax and again no daily stamp available. ( So if you are from Alberta, think about adding $60.00 for a couple of days fishing).

The Province is proposing evening meetings to be scheduled in the following places Surrey on May 14th, Chilliwack on May 15th, Williams Lake May 23rd and Lillooet on May 24th and an information bulletin will be out about this soon.

I guess there are no people who fish Sturgeon on Vancouver Island or the Interior??

I would think that a number of questions need to be asked at these meetings.
Example, on ALL the other stamps example Steelhead, from the date these were instituted show us the amount of money raised per year and the expenditures of this money.
We need to see this for ALL stamps already out there.
This should be public information now and shown on MOE's site for all.

What is the reason for this stamp? How long is this stamp going to be in place?

Bend over again anglers.



Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Jimmy on April 30, 2007, 07:39:48 AM
Great idea, I think that if even 50% goes back to the species then I'd be happy to pay $25/year to wrestle a Dino and also hope that my grand kids can do the same in 50 years!  :D

Sorry to not agree with you.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Old Black Dog on April 30, 2007, 08:02:28 AM
Interesting that you would throw your money away.
There is nothing saying that any of the money will help Sturgeon.

I would think a PLAN from MOE would be a start?
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: CAPTAIN BONK on April 30, 2007, 09:35:54 AM
SOUNDS LIKE WERE GONNA BE PAYING FOR THE GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES VACATIONS AGAIN !  >:(
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Jimmy on April 30, 2007, 09:42:11 AM
Interesting that you would throw your money away.
There is nothing saying that any of the money will help Sturgeon.

I would think a PLAN from MOE would be a start?

Nothing saying that it wouldn't go back in the fishery, there have been rumblings in the past that they would close this fishery completely. I don't want to pay anymore taxes that I have to but I sure would much rather pay $25/year than not fish it at all.

It is a choice of all anglers whether to pay the toll or just hang the rods up and start golfing. I choose to fish even if I have to pay an extra $25. Could be worse I could smoke and have to pay taxes as well be killing myself
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Geff_t on April 30, 2007, 09:44:58 AM
SOUNDS LIKE WERE GONNA BE PAYING FOR THE GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES VACATIONS AGAIN !  >:(

what is wrong with that. we say thank you  ;D ;D .
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: CAPTAIN BONK on April 30, 2007, 10:01:29 AM
what is wrong with that. we say thank you 

^ WHERE SHOULD I START ?
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: jetboatjim on April 30, 2007, 11:05:37 AM
Next it will be a bass stamp, then a squaw fish stamp.

This is what the real problem is with our provincial leaders/workers.
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r163/jetboatjimmy/ATT00183.jpg)
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: blaydRnr on April 30, 2007, 11:26:56 AM
the problem i have with this is the allocation of funds.  just like with the salmon tags, you sometimes wonder where all the money is being spent, especially with all the cut backs, lack of enhancement and enforcement.
i feel more money is being funneled into administration rather than the field itself.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Gooey on April 30, 2007, 11:42:39 AM
Come on gang...if the gov is so cash starved, I don't think they would turn to a sturgeon stamp to plump up their coffers!  Yes I don't like the idea of having a stamp I paid for and not knowing where that money is going (ie enforcement or habitat etc) but we all have to agree that BC offers some INCREDIBLE fishing opportuinitites which is why I still think my salmon stamp (or sturgeon for that matter) is an extremely good value.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: salmonlander on April 30, 2007, 11:51:15 AM
This proposal is nothing more than a money grab by MOE. There has been enough evidence obtained and forwarded by the angling community to substanciate that the species is in good shape and infact the non listing by COSEWIC is directly related to this input.
What is  the proposed useage of monies collected? Is it to fund the consultating companies to study and restudy. Nice cash cow for them.  Its just a grab with nothing coming back to the resource.
Possibly as we are bending over, we might catch a ditch eel !
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: searun17 on April 30, 2007, 11:53:21 AM
I don't have a problem with paying the 25 bucks if all the money is going back into the fishery and is being used   in a positive manner on our river,but in previous instances with the other stamps we are not getting all the information as to were all the money is going which leaves me and I'm sure many others looking at this issue with many unanswered questions,hence the belief by many that we are just being nickel and dimed to death for money for the most part that probably ends up in general revenue.With all the issues that exist today IE,loss of habitat ,low salmon returns,IE coho,and lack of enforcement just to name a few .this is were this money should be getting spent,but i don't see it. A plan needs to be layed out for all to see,tell us where and how the money is going to be spent and how much ,if the peoples money is working for the people then no problem but it has to be abundantly clear to all that our money is going towards the resource that we all cherish.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: blaydRnr on April 30, 2007, 11:58:54 AM
i'm all for supporting our industry and i don't have a problem with paying for usage, but history has a habit of popping its nasty head.
how is it that many issues have not been addressed, yet the government can go ahead with a plan to increase revenue and show no accountability for it?  what reasons do they have for coming up with this plan and what are their objectives, if any?  how will it effect our local guides and their potential clients?

i don't think the government is cash starved as much as maybe....cash greedy.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Geff_t on April 30, 2007, 12:04:44 PM
should the title of this thread not just be that the government is ripping us off as the fisheries is patroled buy both federal and provincial. The provinve collects for non-tidal and the federal collects for the tidal. Now are they both going to charge for stamps. And as far as getting to know where the money goes I say good luck. They will never be forecoming with that info. It is just like the taxes on gas. It is supposed to go into transit, road and infastructure improvements. The roads suck, any new bridges built will be tolled and transit is a joke. All money collected by  which ever government just goes to what ever they want. They put a little to where it is supposed to go but most of it goes into general revenue. Hopefully come the next election the people remember what the government has done and vote on that and not vote on promises that will be broken with in a year.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: searun17 on April 30, 2007, 12:05:30 PM
i'm all for supporting our industry and i don't have a problem with paying for usage, but history has a habit of popping its nasty head.
how is it that many issues have not been addressed, yet the government can go ahead with a plan to increase revenue and show no accountability for it?  what reasons do they have for coming up with this plan and what are their objectives, if any?  how will it effect our local guides and their potential clients?

i don't think the government is cash starved as much as maybe....cash greedy.

I agree it is about accountability,especially when they come knocking with their hands out looking for more money,for me its not so much about having to pay more but where is the money going ,put it into the resource and no problem.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: troutbreath on April 30, 2007, 04:50:49 PM
The governments going to use it on Sturgeon (cavier) at their next sell out banquet of some other resource. What happens with the ever increasing amount you pay now just to fish. If you believe there side of the spin you need a wake up call or your spinning Basi style.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: bbronswyk2000 on April 30, 2007, 06:36:20 PM
I have no problem paying the $25. For the amount of times I go out for sturgeon $25 is a bargain. Think of it as giving back even if it doesnt all go back into the said fishery. Atleast you can feel good about atleast paying for it.

Just like Gooey mentioned its not really a money grab. Say 5000 people got the stamp thats only $125,000 barely anything. That would pay maybe two CO's salary for the year ( just an example ).
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: speycaster on April 30, 2007, 07:02:15 PM
Better they spend it on two COs that pee it away on a junket to Honalulu to study how the COs there catch poachers.Thats how the morons we elect operate.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: jetboatjim on April 30, 2007, 07:37:40 PM
You guys really need to give your heads a shake, do you really think they will spend that money properly......NOT..........No new C.O's  just piss it  away on some other stuff other than fish.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Fish Assassin on April 30, 2007, 09:03:37 PM
You guys really need to give your heads a shake, do you really think they will spend that money properly......NOT..........No new C.O's  just piss it  away on some other stuff other than fish.

Have to agree with JJ. The money will just go into general revenue.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: stlhd4ever on April 30, 2007, 09:06:01 PM
Sick of  this government trying to come up with ideas to decrease their spending while ensuring they have their 100,000 yr and over paychecks plus that for bonuses and screwing all of us. We shouldn't have to pay at all to fish our own land. Now don't get me wrong I don't mind paying for my licences and tags because we have a great fishery here in the lower mainland. And if they create a tag for Sturgeon I will pay it just like everyone that wants to fish for this elusive beast. The government doesn't care about what we say, they've already decided that there will be a Sturgeon stamp for 2008. They only have these public hearings to make us feal like we have a say.

There is a way out though I did some window reno's on this guy's house in North Van Had alot of interesting things to say. Don't fully agree with everything but interesting.check outwww.thinkfree.ca (ftp://www.thinkfree.ca) Not at all fishing related. But government.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: speycaster on April 30, 2007, 09:16:11 PM
I think CSIS has closed down that site, goverment does not like free thinkers.You had better follow the goverment agenda or you too could disappear. ;D
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Sam Salmon on April 30, 2007, 10:34:33 PM
Some of the comments here are so inane as to defy belief.

FYI-Govt revenues are at an all time high and as BB says the paltry amount collected amounts to very little.

Has anyone contacted the Fraser Sturgeon Conservation Society to ask their opinion on this?

Has anyone here ever heard of the Fraser Sturgeon Conservation Society or even know anything about the good work they do?

http://www.frasersturgeon.com/

Is bee eye tee see aytch all you guys do all day? ::)

BTW-here's the other site-there was a tiny error posting the link-anyone who took the trouble could find it- http://www.thinkfree.ca/
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: rln on May 01, 2007, 07:03:19 AM
after some recent meetings, this cash grab is all about getting enough money to collect data. MoE wants to know how many fish for sturgeon and by making you buy a license they instantly know. The money will NOT go back into trying to manage the stock in any sort of way or enforcement. It's all about collecting data because they are goverment and they can.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Old Black Dog on May 01, 2007, 07:48:46 AM
They get data for free now and if they require more all they have to do is ask.
However as noted it is a $$ grab and once again the Province is showing it's real colours.
For them it is all about the $$.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Jimmy on May 01, 2007, 08:53:10 AM
$25 a year for a 150lbs dino that can be caught in your backyard, come on stop wining we get a great deal hear in bc.

hatchery systems have been put into place for steelhead, maybe the same type of thing will be next for the sturgeon. I will gladly pay in hopes that my future grandkids get to wrestle one of those beasts!
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: bbronswyk2000 on May 01, 2007, 11:45:31 AM
OBD go look up how much it costs to fish in Europe and get back to us..... ::)
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: DionJL on May 01, 2007, 12:01:00 PM
I'm sitting hear waiting to hear Rodney's take on things, but that hasn't happened yet.

I however tend to agree with OBD. There is no proof that the money from our liciences goes directly to fishery enhancement. We have a RIGHT to fish, it is part of our heritage. Over in England they have a RIGHT to be taxed, that's their heritage. ;D
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Old Black Dog on May 01, 2007, 12:13:29 PM
OBD go look up how much it costs to fish in Europe and get back to us..... ::)

We are not in Europe and that has nothing to do with this.

If you are happy paying for a new tag that is not as we understand it going to do anything for the fish, then be happy.

I on the other hand do not like getting ripped off by our government, just because they feel they can.



Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: bbronswyk2000 on May 01, 2007, 01:26:51 PM
OBD go look up how much it costs to fish in Europe and get back to us..... ::)

We are not in Europe and that has nothing to do with this.

If you are happy paying for a new tag that is not as we understand it going to do anything for the fish, then be happy.

I on the other hand do not like getting ripped off by our government, just because they feel they can.





Well who do we have to blame? We are the ones that voted in our current goverment so I guess we can only blame ourselves. The cost of fishing is inexpensive compared to many other activities.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Jimmy on May 01, 2007, 02:58:08 PM
 ??? looking a gift horse in the mouth ??? Be happy you can fish these beasts
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: troutbreath on May 01, 2007, 05:48:45 PM
If you don't mind being fed horses**t and paying $25 for the meal, chow down. That's Canadian for sure, and I didn't vote for this. I just get amused by people saying they would pay $25 bucks to fish for something that if endangered, should be closed to fishing. $25 bucks to kiss Campbells butt anyone, he needs the money. What's $25 buck tag going to do, let us know the sturgeon are like on the way out. Spend away get some shots of your "gift horse" to post while your at it. I think we already spend the money to look after the fishery, it is just going elsewhere.

Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: leadbelly on May 01, 2007, 05:59:17 PM
no one here old enough to remember the old sturgeon stamp?
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Sam Salmon on May 01, 2007, 06:05:23 PM
Yup!
I never bought one because I've only been fishing Sturgeon for about 10 years now.
Thanks for bringing it up.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Geff_t on May 01, 2007, 08:00:05 PM
OBD go look up how much it costs to fish in Europe and get back to us..... ::)

We are not in Europe and that has nothing to do with this.

If you are happy paying for a new tag that is not as we understand it going to do anything for the fish, then be happy.

I on the other hand do not like getting ripped off by our government, just because they feel they can.





Heck I work for the government and I get ripped off every day. So I get it 24/7 365 days a year. Just look at the raises that they are recommending from an independant commitee( if you want to believe that), it is over 26%.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: rln on May 02, 2007, 07:08:23 AM
I was in a meeting yesterday and found out that MoE is doing this so they can raise around $200,000.00 to pay for the cost of collecting data about sturgeon and just how many guys, where and when they are fishing. In the long run this info will be used to manage the fishery to the benifit of sturgeon. This will most likely include closed periods and locations to fishing for sturgeon at certain times of year.  Like it or not there will be a freshwater sturgeon tag in place for April of 2008. The only thing really remaining to do is set the tag cost. Get ready for it, because it is definately coming
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: glx on May 02, 2007, 09:17:15 AM
According to the Freshwater Fisheries Society website, 100% of your angling licence goes to them.  Im not sure if that means surcharge stamps as well.  I will gladly pay the 25 bucks for a Stamp if need be.  Hopefully it goes back to where it should.  25 bucks is nothing when you factor in the costs of your boat/motor, rods and reels, gas and now bait. 
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: RA40 on May 02, 2007, 06:06:59 PM
It seems as though lots of people are willing to pay $25 which is great, me too. I don't have a problem paying $25.00 in fact I would pay as a recreational angler and even more as a resource user. The trouble is that this is not about $25.00.

The Fraser Valley Angling Guides provides 82% of the data collected by the sturgeon conservation society for FREE.  A large majority of this data is a result of non-residents & non-resident aliens on guided trips, paying customers. Much of the data collected comes from one day sturgeon charters and one day combination salmon/sturgeon charters. The already dwindling license sales in BC will continue to drop with more fees and a sturgeon stamp. When the non-resident steelhead tag was implemented at $60, the one day steelhead trips for non-residents in the Fraser valley collapsed.  Many anglers locally and from abroad are only fishing for sturgeon, the license being purchased is already a sturgeon license, so in essence they are already paying for a sturgeon tag. Where is this money going?
 
 
Consultation period not fair and unclear. The length of this consultation period is unfair to all stake holders. The first I heard of this was two weeks ago at the Sturgeon Technical Working Group. We then again were unofficially informed at a meeting on April 27. April 29 we are informed of 4 meetings to take place in May with a May 30 deadline for submissions.  Longer and more in depth consultation, as this time frame is very unfair.
 
There is no plan in place or at least we have not see one, what is the money to be used for, when , where and how much. Is the money generated by the lower Fraser going to be used solely for the lower Fraser? There are more questions than answers. We already give millions worth of free data.
 
End result
 
1. If this sturgeon stamp was to become reality in the dollar value being suggested, we are all very clear on the end result. Millions of dollars of revenue to the local communities will be lost, local guide companies will fold their doors and the majority of future data will be lost. There will be no longer be the appetite to tag sturgeon from FVAGA members as they will without a doubt, leave a sour taste.
 
2. Paying customers will not pay an additional $60 per person to fish a 1/2 day for sturgeon. As mentioned above, much of our data is collected during one day trips and 1/2 day salmon/1/2 day sturgeon charters. The increase of $60 per person or $240 for a boat of 4 will not fly. The only sturgeon charters that will continue are multi-day trips where the cost is spread out over time. This is less than 30 % of most businesses, a drop of 70%
 
3. During salmon charters we often introduce clients to sturgeon fishing by adding a few hours onto the end of their trip. This has no cost associated with it so the client is happy to try it out. A few sturgeon are caught and tagged, more data for FREE and the client is introduced to this incredible sturgeon fishery. More often than not, the client will re-book and request 1 or more days of sturgeon. Again, this scenario would be lost if this sturgeon stamp was introduced at the rate being suggested. More lost data opportunities.
 
4. Poaching is still a problem, guides and sport fisherman are the guardians on the water their eye’s and ears are very important. Take them off the water and you will increase poaching opportunities.
 
Possible Solutions
 
1. The guides in the valley and their clients already give millions and millions of dollars worth of their time to Sturgeon conservation through donations, fundraising programs and tagging sturgeon. It's high time government agencies stop taking and begin giving something back to help these fish and continue the programs currently under way. Monies can be raise in other ways through various organizations and fundraising.As we all know, programs such as these rarely help what they were intended for.
 
2. If a sturgeon stamp concept was to be embraced by local communities and guides, a one day stamp for resident, non-residents & non-resident alien would be a must. This would be the only way the concept of a sturgeon stamp would fly. All monies collected would have to go directly to local fish projects not diverted to other communities.
 
3. Continue to seek funding through grants and other venues and stop trying to wipe out the guiding industry in the Fraser Valley.
 
4. An internet licensing system would provide the tools for monitoring and fair distribution for funds that are already being collected. You don't need to re-event the wheel.

I know I will get hammered as I'm sure there are a few readers that are anti -guides but I thought some of the posters needed a bit of background info. The bottom line is that your still fishing for sturgeon because of the work done by Fraser River Sturgeon conservation group and local guides who have donated thousands of hours of thier time for Free. This is a great way to re-pay them for thier efforts.

Vic Carrao
STS Guiding Service
 

 
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: firstlight on May 02, 2007, 06:08:24 PM
I cant complain.
It will  work out to about .10 cents an hour for my tag.
Pretty cheap fun if yopu ask me. ;)
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: firstlight on May 02, 2007, 06:11:13 PM
How much money was made by guides tagging fish?
Or did they not get paid to do this?
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: firstlight on May 02, 2007, 06:13:40 PM
The visitors to our waters have had a free ride long enough.
Its about time they paid there share here too.
Not talking about just the Fraser either or just Sturgeon.
I mean the whole province.Tidal and non-tidal.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Sam Salmon on May 02, 2007, 06:14:49 PM
Where did the $60 come from?

That was the price for Steelhead-there's no mention of that number for Sturgeon.

Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: RA40 on May 02, 2007, 06:23:35 PM
Sam the number being suggest is the same a steelhead for resident and non-resident.

Firstlight - we definately made money and I agree that we all need to pay our share. I think your missing the point.
If the price of the tag is implimented as being suggested, the large majority of 1 day trips will be lost and so will the data. If 82% of the data is coming from the guides, I would suggest that a large precentage of that data will be lost. If so, what is the point of raising these funds, there will be no data to analyze.

I am not against the tag completely, Just think they are rushing it through and they need to think about the end result of their actions which has not be thought out.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: stlhd4ever on May 02, 2007, 07:35:18 PM
There is no plan in place or at least we have not see one, what is the money to be used for, when , where and how much. Is the money generated by the lower Fraser going to be used solely for the lower Fraser?

Everybody knows that most of the money generated is not going to be used toward sturgeon rehabilitation. My guess is that the fish will see about 20% of all funds and the rest will go into the politicians pockets. I mean they will have to hire new people and promote some people to take control and sort through the data to come to a conclusion that they already know, because of guides like Vic. I will pay the 25 like I said before, but I won't like it unless there is a detailed report on where the money is going. With results in 6 months so we all know that they are doing something. As far as losing business goes I think that the gudes should pay for a yearly licence that covers people on that particular boat. So clients don't have to go through the hassle of obtaing licences and stamps. I really think this would attract alot of new clients, that would offset the licence fee. I know alot of people that won't pay for a guided trip and then all the required licences and stamps for 1 day of fishing. So they just don't go.

Hey Vic I remember taking your steelhead seminar about 8-10 years ago. Still doin that? :)
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: troutbreath on May 03, 2007, 08:53:26 AM
Good post Vic :)

That sure helps to explain what the guides have already done to help with this fishery. I doubt paying $25 bucks is going to get more detailed info than what they get already from people like yourself.

I just see gettin the same old steelhead survey type card that you fill out if your in the mood. And the $25 dollars helps process the report from the cards. That report sure will help the fish :-\
Call Basi....need spin
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: RA40 on May 04, 2007, 05:53:20 AM
Steelhd, We still offer the seminar,  usually in January when things are just getting rolling.

Troutbreath, thanks for your post.

I don't want people to get the wrong idea, I think we are all willing to pay our share and I am more than happy to pay $60 or even $100 for an annual license. I just think we need to recognize the contribution to sturgeon data collection from tourists and allow for a fair and reasonable daily fee.

Hope to see you all on the water.

Tight lines.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Rodney on May 07, 2007, 03:41:00 PM
The Ministry of Environment will be hosting four public consultation meetings on the white sturgeon conservation surcharge stamp.

May 14, 2007
7:00 pm-9:00 pm
Ramada Hotel
10410 158th Street, Surrey

May 15, 2007
7:00 pm-9:00 pm
Rhombus Hotel,
45920 First Avenue, Chilliwack

May 23, 2007
7:00 pm-9:00 pm
Ministry of Environment
400-640 Borland Street, Williams Lake

May 24, 2007
7:00 pm-9:00 pm
District of Lillooet REC Centre
930 Main Street, Lillooet

Agenda

Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Old Black Dog on May 08, 2007, 07:18:51 AM
Remember there is NO conservation problem in the Lower Fraser.

Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: stlhd4ever on May 08, 2007, 10:54:12 AM
I'd still say there is a conservation problem in the lower fraser.does anybody really know how many fish there are in the lower fraser or how far up river they travel? Here's another ? if any body here saw a dead sturgeon would you report it or keep quiet in fear of the fishery closing. Really think about that. I reported 5 dead sturgeon last year, all under 5 feet. That's quite a few for a fish that is so tough. Think about how you play them, play them hard and as quickly as possible so not to tire them out so much and I believe people shouldn't be yarding them onto their boats for pics.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Geff_t on May 08, 2007, 11:07:02 AM
I'd still say there is a conservation problem in the lower fraser.does anybody really know how many fish there are in the lower fraser or how far up river they travel? Here's another ? if any body here saw a dead sturgeon would you report it or keep quiet in fear of the fishery closing. Really think about that. I reported 5 dead sturgeon last year, all under 5 feet. That's quite a few for a fish that is so tough. Think about how you play them, play them hard and as quickly as possible so not to tire them out so much and I believe people shouldn't be yarding them onto their boats for pics.

Well said and these same people are also the first ones to rant about how bad bottom bounceing is.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: bcguy on May 08, 2007, 01:06:54 PM
This whole post reminds me of the total inefficiency of our massive bureaucracy. We already contribute over 50% of our paychecks (when is tax freedom day?) to supporting all the programs and developments in this nation, or at least Quebec and Ontario. If we really lived in a free and democratic society, all programs would be put forward to the interested parties, and a vote put forward to implement or not (remember, democracy revolves around the theory that the majority rules, not just jamming it down our throats, something our politicians seem to have forgotten when making new policy). It's like the political cartoon the other day, joe blow taxpayer handing MORE money to a government official and stating to him" You can have half now, and then, if you can prove to me through your ACTIONS (read: NOT words), that you can spend it responsibly, you can have the other half", thats what we need to start doiing. We do it for our kids, and thats only a few dollars, why is it different when its in the BILLIONS, anyone else see a problem here? Accountability is a word some individuals seem to struggle with. Seems to me if a business or group of individuals want to make money off our natural resources, then it should be they, not us, that pay for it. Sorry if this offends a few people, but I am sick of paying for others to make money (not me, but the business). By the way, I dont even fish for sturgeon, I just get sick of hearing about cash grabs...rant, rant, rant
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Sam Salmon on May 08, 2007, 03:58:33 PM
Remember there is NO conservation problem in the Lower Fraser.
Anyone who posts something as blatantly untrue as quoted isn't to be taken seriously anytime.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Old Black Dog on May 08, 2007, 04:11:19 PM
Remember there is NO conservation problem in the Lower Fraser.
Anyone who posts something as blatantly untrue as quoted isn't to be taken seriously anytime.


Well show me a study that that is different. Show me where the Province said there is a concern.
The study done said there was none in the Lower Fraser, however there were in other parts of the river which they closed to fishing.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: stlhd4ever on May 08, 2007, 04:18:39 PM
They are on a comeback, sure but doesn't mean there is no concern for them. Another huge die off like what happened 7 years ago? would devastate the population in one shot. So there is no reason to argue that there isn't a concern when it is clear as daylight. If something like this happens again you can bet you a$$ that they shut the fishery down.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Old Black Dog on May 08, 2007, 04:37:12 PM
And how many do anglers kill via catch and release?

How many die via poaching?

Why is it that the same government that wants to tax you to fish for these fish will not clean up all the S**t that is pumped into the Fraser each and every day?

Vancouver is worse than Victoria in this regard and an outside agency has to sue to try and get government to clean up?



Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: roeman on May 08, 2007, 05:01:38 PM
Dead sturgeon does not indicate poor catch and release, how about all the nets in the river.  Have seen on many occasions the picking of set nets, and up comes a sturgeon, how long has net been sitting there with the sturgeon caught.  Just another way they could be dying
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: stlhd4ever on May 08, 2007, 06:13:42 PM
I'm not saying it is poor catch and release, just a contributing factor. You can't tell me that releasing injured fish from yarding them up on your boat is good for them. Sending them out into a polluted river with open wounds can't be good for them. I've done it myself overplaying a fish and watching float down river hoping it revives itself. That's why I play them hard and fast make them give up and if I want a picture I take it to shore big or small. I've also seen brbs ripped off of them being yarded into the boat, when I first started fishing for these monsters. But I want to enjoy them for years to come so I try my best to preserve our local heritage.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Rodney on May 10, 2007, 12:13:07 PM
Here is a information bulletin released by the Ministry of Environment today:

MEETINGS SET FOR INPUT ON WHITE STURGEON SURCHARGE

VICTORIA – The Ministry of Environment will be consulting on a proposed conservation surcharge for white sturgeon anglers taking part in the catch-and-release fishery in the lower and middle sections of the Fraser River. Public meetings have been scheduled to gather input.

Recently, the majority of the white sturgeon populations in British Columbia (Columbia, Nechako, Kootenay and upper Fraser Rivers) were listed as endangered species under the federal Species at Risk Act (SARA). As a result, there is no fishing allowed on these populations. White sturgeon populations in the middle and lower Fraser River were not listed as it was felt that the populations were healthier than those listed, and are able to maintain the socially and economically important catch and release fisheries they support.

However, the middle and lower Fraser populations are still vulnerable. Accordingly, there is an increased responsibility on the Ministry of Environment to more closely monitor and assess the health of these sturgeon populations. In order to accomplish this task, the ministry is proposing the implementation of a sturgeon conservation surcharge stamp.

Every angler who fishes for sturgeon would be required to have this stamp on their licence and the ministry is currently exploring options for both pricing and duration of the stamp.

Revenue generated from the sales of the sturgeon conservation stamp will be used directly to fund sturgeon stock management activities on the middle and lower Fraser River.

Meetings are scheduled to acquire additional information regarding this initiative and to allow for their input and feedback. Locations and dates are as follows:

• Chilliwack, May 15, Rhombus Hotel, 7 – 9 p.m. (45920 First Avenue, Chilliwack)
• Surrey, May 14, Ramada Hotel, 7 – 9 p.m. (10410 158th Street, Surrey)
• Lillooet, May 24, District of Lillooet REC Centre, 7 - 9 p.m. (930 Main Street, Lillooet)
• Williams Lake, May 23, Ministry of Environment office, 7 – 9 p.m. (400 - 640 Borland Street, Williams Lake)

Stakeholders who cannot attend the public meetings can request additional information and provide feedback at: fish.web@gov.bc.ca

Media contact:

Kate Thompson
Media Relation
250 953-4577

For more information on government services or to subscribe to the Province’s news feeds using RSS, visit the Province’s website at http://www.gov.bc.ca.
Title: Re: Sturgeon Stamp. The Province is going to rip you off again..
Post by: Rodney on June 11, 2007, 01:55:37 PM
Just bring this back up to the top. For those who were unable to attend the public consultation meetings that took place a month ago, you can now send your concerns by email to:

fish.web@gov.bc.ca