Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Gooey on April 02, 2007, 02:34:28 PM
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I don't know about you guys but I love seeing a fish on the line, even if its someone else's. This weekends trip started out pretty slow and when a old timer up from me hooked a fish, I was happy for the excitement.
His fish went under a stick and I put my gear down and took my vest off in order to help him. He said he was ok (he musta had some heavy leader) as he put the rod tip donw and pulled the fish up outta the small log jam. I was there so I offer assistance in landing the fish...he refused. Fine, but I was bored to I wanted to stay around and watch...maybe I could gain something by seeing his presentation etc. Now after about 5+ minutes and the fish is ready to com in, he is still psiing around with it. We both knew immidiately it was wild so this fish was going back 100%. He was on top of the rock 2 feet off the water and with a fast current pressed right against it. I sat watching as he would pull the fish into his feet and it would turn slightly in the current and run line off. It got to the point were I figured he was over playing the fish.
So here is my question...I didnt harrass the guy IE tell him to get his fish in BUT I WANTED TO SOOO BAD!!!! He was takin too much time in my opinion and he wasn't goignt to land it by himself from where he was standing.
Luckily the fish tucked into a little back eddy 10 feet down from him and right at the shore. I walked down and without asking, tailed it. I tried to pop the hook out, it was BARBED...maybe thats why he pissed around so much and refused my help. My vest was off so without any pliers, I decided to break the fish off...I turn its head into the current, help back on the leader and pop...off it went.
So when do you speak up and tell a guy he's pussyfooting around too much without coming off like a beak - afterall, we should all be concerned witht he health and proper treatment of our wild steelhead?
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I would have told him that it was illegal to have a barbed hook. How he played the fish is something thats hard to bring up as it comes with experience. Maybe the guy only fishes 3 or 4 times a year who knows. I just dont get angry anymore as I find it not worth it. Also explaining to people proper catch and release methods is getting to a point where I dont bother anymore since 90% of people dont listen and carry on with the way they have always been doing it. No point in upsetting yourself as its not your fault. The regs have a page or two with how to properly release a fish.
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Ya, I wasn't getting angry or bent outta shape...just anxious that he was overplaying a fish. And as for the barb...I approached that by saying sorry I snapped your leader off but when I tried to pull the hook out, it wouldnt budge because it was still barbed. He started saying oh, I have pliers, I pinch my barbs, BLAH BLAH BLAH...I simply said relax, I'm not DFO, your not getting a ticket this time, I smiled and walked off ;)
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Good stuff. Thats just the way I would have approached the situation. Nothing more you can do.
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I find that when people are taking an inordinate time landing a fish and refusing all offers of help it usually means that they are doing something illegal such as using a barb hook or planning to keep a foul hooked fish.
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^ AGREED, I GET ALL BENT OUT OF SHAPE WHEN I C SOMEONE DOING WRONG ON THE RIVER, I DEF LET THE OTHER PERSON KNOW OF THEIR WRONG DOINGS, AFTER ALL DFO CAN'T B AT 30 DIF FISHING SPOTS AT ONCE SO IT'S UP TO THE GOOD GUYS TO DO OR SAY SOMETHING !
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I don't think you can really tell anyone how long to play a fish... you don't know if the guy is fishing a light leader and so being careful or if his rod is a low wt. etc...too many variables...unless they are just being idiots and letting it come in and out... I also agree though that when someone does what this guy did it is normally because they are fishing illegally.
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^ AGREED, I GET ALL BENT OUT OF SHAPE WHEN I C SOMEONE DOING WRONG ON THE RIVER,
Sort of like when someone deliberately does not follow other rules (like grammar) and use capitalization properly.
:-*
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So golfman...you decide you want to set a challenge for yourself and land a winter run on 4 lb leader in what is pretty high water...you hook a fish, its a big strong WILD buck. I say you have a responsibility to get that fish in, in a manner that doesnt KILL it.
There was a US fishing celeb doing a show on the Thompson. He hooked a beautiful steelhead and played it in. He revived it, and released it but he didnt remove his hook, his intention was to get more footage of a fight with a thompson steelie (pretty brutal if you ask me). Anyhow, Conservation witnessed this and ticketed him for endangerment or something to that effect.
I think overplaying a fish is over playing a fish, whether its one (unjustifiably) long battle or in the case of this tv host, 2 battles. If you are going to kill the fish (legally) then I really don't care how long you take but a wild steelhead is different in my books.
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Sort of like when someone deliberately does not follow other rules (like grammar) and use capitalization properly.
^ YEAH, BECAUSE THAT HAS SO MUCH TO DO WITH PROPER RIVER BEHAVIOUR ! ::)
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That's a tough situation, my Grandfather used to take me steelheading all the time when I was a little kid on the Little Qualicum. Now like most Old Timers who fished the same place all the time he was a meat fisherman, that's what he even called himself. He got into a Steely one morning and I sat and watched him fight this fish for about 5 to 10 minutes, a huge battle. The steely came up and out of the water and broke the line, and got away. We continued to fish the same spot for a half an hour or so, then moved down river to the next hole.
To my amazement there was a steelhead floating around in a little back eddie, Grandpa went in and grabbed it. It was the same one he broke off 45 mins before, still had the spoon he was using in it's mouth. I asked what happened and he cut her open and she was full of blood. He told me they fight so hard that they can actually kill themselves from a hemorrhage.
That was my first experience of overplaying a fish.
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ANOTHER THING, THE OLD TIMERS OUT THERE ALSO DON'T HAVE THE STRENGTH LIKE THEY USE TO SO IT WILL TAKE THEM LONGER TO LAND A FISH !
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Sort of like when someone deliberately does not follow other rules (like grammar) and use capitalization properly.
^ YEAH, BECAUSE THAT HAS SO MUCH TO DO WITH PROPER RIVER BEHAVIOUR ! ::)
As you get more mature you will notice that people have a philosophy of behaving and that behaviour patterns are connected in many subtle ways (life is more chess then checkers).
There are those that follow rules, work hard, don't take short cuts, don't get road rage ~ generally good people. Then there are those who take many short cuts, always have an excuse, bend the rules, don't explain things clearly ~ generally people you need to keep an eye on....
:D
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U MEAN KEEP YOUR FRIENDS CLOSE AND YOUR ENEMIES EVEN CLOSER !
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So golfman...you decide you want to set a challenge for yourself and land a winter run on 4 lb leader in what is pretty high water...you hook a fish, its a big strong WILD buck. I say you have a responsibility to get that fish in, in a manner that doesnt KILL it.
There was a US fishing celeb doing a show on the Thompson. He hooked a beautiful steelhead and played it in. He revived it, and released it but he didnt remove his hook, his intention was to get more footage of a fight with a thompson steelie (pretty brutal if you ask me). Anyhow, Conservation witnessed this and ticketed him for endangerment or something to that effect.
I think overplaying a fish is over playing a fish, whether its one (unjustifiably) long battle or in the case of this tv host, 2 battles. If you are going to kill the fish (legally) then I really don't care how long you take but a wild steelhead is different in my books.
I don't think setting a challenge has anything to do with it....read last years steelhead posts...A fair number of them talk about how gin clear the river was and how they had to go down to 6 and 8 pound leaders so as not to spook the fish....I believer even Chris G. talks about this.... and talks about having to be careful with the fish so he doesn't bust it off becasuse of his leader...
If you fish back in the Great Lake regions it's not uncommon for guys to go down to as low as 4lb flou. leaders.... Sometimes you have to fish very light leaders or gear.....
Actually the same can be applied to fly guys as well, there are quite a few who think nothing of using 1 or 2 wt rods to fish bigger fish...They think it's more of a kick to fight them with...not taking into account that like your stating it severly hurts and can kill the fish...IMHO you should bring the fish in as quickly as you can, If you lose it, oh well, tie back up ...
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The great lakes are tiny river tribs alot of times...no flow so you need light line for stealth and you dont need heavy line for fish control...sorry not a valid comparison.
as well, not many people are fishing light leader in the river right now, its high and dirty so there is no need. If you read the initial post, the guy actuall had heavy line on, he yarded the fish up out of a log jam. When he did that (1 minute into the fight), we both saw it was a wild fish. When you know a fish is going to be released, thast when you should stop pissing around with it. when I see a wild fish I usually tighten my drag down and get them in...not to the point I am horsing them but when I know I can't retain the fish, its a different type situation then.
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The "old guy" should have known better. I'd give him a "hot wader".
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A lot of the old timers are "barbers". I personally know three or four of them. A sure sign of a barber is when he doesn't want any help with landing fish as Gooey mentioned, or else he likes to walk his fish a hundred yards down river to land it.
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went to vedder today and saw 3 people fishing without floats ( maybe snagging ? )
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went to vedder today and saw 3 people fishing without floats ( maybe snagging ? )
probably tossing spoons
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went to vedder today and saw 3 people fishing without floats ( maybe snagging ? )
probably tossing spoons
i dont see a spoon
there is also a weight with a little bit of pink wool
sort of those in sockeye season
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How deep of water were they fishing? and how long were the leaders?
all i see were they keep boucning the rod down up down up
dunno what they did
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^ AGREED, I GET ALL BENT OUT OF SHAPE WHEN I C SOMEONE DOING WRONG ON THE RIVER,
Sort of like when someone deliberately does not follow other rules (like grammar) and use capitalization properly.
:-*
It usually is up to the site mod. and admin. to deal with problem like this one. If they decide it is ok to yell and shout and it is ok to do it on everything he types, then I guess it is ok here.
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Like I said before, it is not up to me. I don't run this site. I am not even a paid member. Perhaps that is why I should not make a judgement of that cause I did not pay for the membership.
I totally agree with dennisK.
And birdman, go to any forum and type all capital or even just ask for what all capital typing means. I am sure people will agree that usually mean shouting or yelling... But I guess it is different here. As long as you have friends here, common practice rules do not apply to you.
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How did we get off the topic of landing fish and barbed hooks and on to chat line topics? Rule #2 is don't be so sensitive. Plus Bonk is harmless, he's a flames fan. ;)
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SNAP.
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went to vedder today and saw 3 people fishing without floats ( maybe snagging ? )
probably tossing spoons
i dont see a spoon
there is also a weight with a little bit of pink wool
sort of those in sockeye season
Bottom bouncing is a legitimate technique for fishing rivers. Our neighbors to the south excel with this method. It is also much harder to master than fishing with a float. As long as your leaders are kept short there is no harm with this method. In my oppion it is actually easier to snag fish using a float, although it is easier to "line" fish without a float.
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J.G. do you use the same kind of weight set up and just a shorter leader?
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Without someone keep doing all caps, DennisK would not have said something about it... and I would not have said something...
So like I said before, having friends here is more important...
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J.G. do you use the same kind of weight set up and just a shorter leader?
I don't fish with gear very much anymore. But when I do I fish with a float. It's much more productive for faster/pocket type water. Bottom bouncing is better in your stereo typical steelhead pool or run preferably with a bottom of gravel, as opposed to bigger rocks that eat your tackle.
All I was saying was that just because someone is not using a float, it doesn't mean they are flossing or snagging.
The farther you think outside the box, the more fish you will catch. Especially on a heavily fished river like the Vedder.
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Charles, subscribers do not have more say than regular members. The extra features that they pay for are clearly listed out, superiority over regular members is certainly not one of them. :) If users on the discussion forum have a problem or feedback, you can either use the "report post" link at the bottom right corner of the post, or email me at info@fishingwithrod.com. I try to get back to all the emails, but at times that's almost impossible. My daily routine already involves going through and answering emails a couple hours per day. If there is a problem with a specific post, one of the moderators will get to the post as quickly as possible as the report goes to all of us at the same time. If I am away, Dragonspeed will get to it first. from late night to early morning, Nina keeps an eye on it as it is daytime in Europe.
Regarding typing in capitalized letters, there are no rules against it, so if members want to do that, they are free to do so. However, as you have brought it up, common courtesy and consideration of other users are needed beside following the existing rules. In reality, we judge a person based on the way he or she presents his or herself. Jokes are only entertaining when done moderately. Overdoing it becomes an annoyance. Personally I like to get into frank discussion on serious issues on discussion forums as you can learn plenty from others just as much as others learning from you. I judge the validity of a person's opinion based on my previous impression on him or her. I usually skip or skim through posts that involve typing in capitalized letters, poorly structured sentences or one-word response that makes absolutely no sense. This maybe arrogant, but one only has so much time and I intend to use it constructively without having my intelligence insulted.
Here's a similar thread to this: http://fishbcforum.com/index.php?showtopic=43931
Now back to the original topic. Issues such as this are not black and white as there are no existing regulations that restrict fighting time, use of a float, etc. Most of the time it comes down to how informed an angler is. We should not be judging an angler based on how he or she fishes, especially over the internet. The best you can do is to create a positive dialogue with the person on your concerns. If the person is unaware of the concerns and willing to learn, then you've done your part to help. If the person is well aware of your concern and does not place much importance to it, then you've done what you could do and move on. It all comes down to your approach. Putting your hands in the air, shaking your head and Walking away, or talking to the person by making him feel that he should be guilty will never work well.
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I understand, Rodney. Thanks for the time writing the response...
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J.G. do you use the same kind of weight set up and just a shorter leader?
I don't fish with gear very much anymore. But when I do I fish with a float. It's much more productive for faster/pocket type water. Bottom bouncing is better in your stereo typical steelhead pool or run preferably with a bottom of gravel, as opposed to bigger rocks that eat your tackle.
All I was saying was that just because someone is not using a float, it doesn't mean they are flossing or snagging.
The farther you think outside the box, the more fish you will catch. Especially on a heavily fished river like the Vedder.
thanks for the great explanation
now i understand more
cheers