Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: dan on January 05, 2007, 09:00:31 AM
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Mod: This topic is split from the original post in the buy and sell (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=13229.0). PLEASE carry on discussions in the general discussion area and stop hijacking buy and sell threads.
When did they make a "green" Sage 3106L drift rod blank
Factory built rods are "L's" and custom built rods are "LB's" "B" meaning blank correct???
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its a factory rod therefore its green
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its a factory rod therefore its green
You can just buy the green blank now.
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Ok Thanks for clearing that up
Dan
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What the difference between a 3106L and the 3113LB(in action wise or line rated). Thanks
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I heard the brown and green sage rods are all the same just painted different color
^ U HEARD WRONG ! IS THAT WHAT BIG STEEL TOLD U ?
MY OPINION : THEY SURE DON'T MAKE THEM LIKE THEY USE TO !
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I was at a certain Tackle shop yesterday and I was told by both the owner and his worker that the two ( Green and Brown ) are made on the same machines with the same products by the same people and are exactly the same except for colour
TR
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i just don't believe that..... as a rod builder i notice the subtle differrences.. the greens are indeed faster...though maybe not by much, and i'd be very interested in putting two identical models in brown and green on a scale to see what the wieght difference is. I had a tackle shop owner tell me that the sage green blanks were going to go offshore .... i didn't necessarily believe that one either. Also, when they changed the ol' RPL fly rods to the VPS, evryone said they were the same blank, just cosmetically different..... I didn't believe that one either.... and rightly so. Who knows.... i just can't stand that sage can't just leave well enough alone.... I understand from a marketting perspective BUT as a retailer..... every time sage remodels a rod line... they leave us holding inventory that is now "outdated". Pick a winner and stay with it.... BRING BACK THE RPL and the BROWN blank drift/ocean rods! ;D ;D
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sorry to hijack this thread again ;D
but.....the simple test we performed on the 4120, 3106 and the 3113 was this. fix 2 scotty or similar rod holders to a sturdy surface, set the angle at 45 degrees and inches apart. We used a very accurate digital scale to weigh exactly 5 oz of lead. each rod was strung with a loop in the line that went around the butt cap and up the rod through the guides with 2 feet hanging from the tip. The rods weere -placed in the rod holders and i used a fabricators angle finder to set the rod's angles to 45 degrees. the 5 oz weights were put on the end of the lines and the bends in the two rods were compared for each model. One holder held a new sage model and one held the brown blank model. you try it and you'll see what we found..... they just ain't the same animal.... close, but no cigar.
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It was actually the sage rep that had said that the new green and the old brown sages were in fact the same just a different color. Maybe they where told to say that because they have noticed a drop in sales. I do not know who is correct nor do I care as I own the old brown one ;D ;D , but if I owned one of the green ones I would still enjoy fishing with it.
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i own a new green 3113mb and its a fantastic rod, id rather own it than an older brown one because if you break the new one they replace the broken piece and your ready to fish, they only replace the broken section by giving you the blank so you have to get it tied.
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don't get me wrong... the green sages are very nice rods... and definately a worthy purchase... just not for me ;D
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Any "B" in a sage rod designation simply means it's a blank not factory rod.The "L" version of any Sage drift rod means it has a slower action.If you have a 3106LB then it's a slow action 3106 blank.If it is a 3106L then it's a factory rod.That simple.And for the record the new green blanks from Sage have the identical action to the old brown ones.I've used the two side by side.
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Thank you for clarifing that. I always wondered what the LB was for.
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You guys crack me up, your describing how you test golf shafts...but it's done on a board..(which if you took one to a shop they could probably do a frequency analysis on it...
That all said, graphite golf shafts and rod blanks have a few minor similarities..one of them is, No two shafts are alike...I would assume that could also be said for the sage blanks...
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MB=MEDIUM BLANK
LB=LIGHT BLANK
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If you have a 3106MB Kingpin then it would not be a Sage factory rod."B" means it was sold as a blank.If you were to break it Sage would only replace the blank not finished rod.I would check with the vendor to make sure you got what you paid for.
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it says 3113M i just call it a mb as thats what all the other ones ive ever used are,
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While we are on the subject.
I have a 3106mb trigger and would trade it for the 3106lb if anyone is interested.
I very rarely fish the bigger flows so the extra power isnt necessary.
It is the brown blank and built by Babcocks and in good used condition.
Would be a great rod for the Vedder.
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What the difference between a 3106L and the 3113LB(in action wise or line rated). Thanks
Anybody???????
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The new sage and the "brown" blank is very much so the same, share the same action, same line rating. Both the new and old blanks build with the same material, same spec, except different color... The only way to find the differents between the two or looks differents is because the way the rod was build.. All new factory sage had the same guide placement, same reel seat, same length of handle.. etc.. But when it comes to Custom build rods.. Some rod have an extra guide, or space more/less between each one.. length of handle.. all can affact the action of the rod.. so you can't really compare the two.. Unless you can test them in just the blank with no components.. or elses you can't really conduct the test...
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3106 designates 10'6"
3113 designates 11'3"
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Like Marco said, the only way you could do a fair test is if you took a green blank and a brown blank and built them exactly the same.
I've used both custom built brown gear rods and the factory greens and I have no problem fishing with either one.
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3106 designates 10'6"
3113 designates 11'3"
Hi goblin59,thanks for the reply,i knew about the length difference already,but i want to know is there any diffference in action or line rated between those 2 rods
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For the record the original brown blanks were never built as fasctory rods and were only available as blanks.BigT I can't tell you the exact line ratings for those two rods but Brian @ westcoast fishing Tackle could or any other Sage dealer for that matter.My personal opinion is that the 3113L is a bit whippy and I prefer the 3113m as a centerpin rod.I use both a 3106L and a 3113m for pinning and think they're both tops.I fish some smaller systems where the 3113m is a little long and usually opt for the 3106 for those flows.As for moochers I think Brian sells more 3113m's and 4112's than anything else.
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Like Marco said, the only way you could do a fair test is if you took a green blank and a brown blank and built them exactly the same.
I've used both custom built brown gear rods and the factory greens and I have no problem fishing with either one.
I have both as well. the Brown 3113 and the green 2106. I would have to say that they are a bit different in feel, but the green 2106 is faster action, and I really like the feel, much more than the brown 2106 that Searun let me try out!! The Brown seemed a bit noodly for me, I like the Green blank better hands down. Mind you for the 3113, the Brown blank is awesome and has the perfect feel FOR ME!! Most if it comes down to personal preference, who the hell cares if someone was so stuck up about a rod that they had to set up a big test just so they could see that they we almost the same. If you have used the rod on the river enough, and you like the feel of it, then great. If you haven't used the rod anywhere but a tackle shop, then you really shouldn't be knocking it until you do. ;)
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last summer i won a 3113 factory with an islander mr3 in a derby on the west coast. I sold the rod to a friend as i have 4 talon boat rods already. His buddy wanted 2 sage rods built exactly to spec with the factory rod and provided me with two brown blanks to wrap up for him. The spacing, seat and spine locations for the finished rods matched the factory specs to the T. He noticed the difference in feel and set up his own little test to see if the parobolic curves were the same from factory to original series. I happened to be there for this experiment.
Anyhow, having fished the green 3113 factory from my boat for 5 or 6 trips in nootka, landing maybe 30 springs and 20 coho on it, and one very ugly monster ling, it was a pleasure to use. I prefer Talon rods, most folks know that round here. But I am still one of those that believes there is a subtle difference between the old and the new sage blanks. For a chuck rod... it prolly doesn't matter, but for a discerning centerpin fisher.... seems a few guys are still yearnin for the oldies and wether it's all in our heads or not... the new just ain't like the old.
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YEAH ! ;D
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Hi folks. I thought I had better jump in here and clarify a few things. First off, so everyone understands where I'm coming from, I have run the Sage Gear program for the past two years. Any and all changes are my responsibility. I initiated the factory rods and was responsible for the colour change. I develop all of the new models and decide which old ones stay.
For the record, the new green blanks are exactly the same as the old brown blanks. Colour change only. Now before everyone starts giving me anecdotal stories about differences in action, let me explain a few things. Some of those blanks have been around for almost 20 years. In that time, there has been changes in basic raw materials - graphite, resin, etc. Sage has always attempted to maintain the exact actions as the originals, but I'm not going to say that it's impossible, over the span of 20 years, to not find some subtle differences within specific models. I will tell you, however, that the new green blanks are manufactured exactly the same as any brown blanks manufactured in the 3 or 4 years prior to my involvement. Rest assured that each and every Sage Gear rod is still being manufactured at our plant on Bainbridge Island WA. We have developed some new models - currently CT296F, CT396F, SP196. These can all be viewed at www.sagegearrods.com I am currently working on some new designs for down the road which are very exciting - Stay tuned!
I hope this clears up any confusion.
Brian Babcock
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there ya go from the horses mouth.... thx Brian
this topic has come up evrywhere from the internet, the poker table and on the river. You, I will take your word because I am familiar with your position with Sage. They are and always will be great rods. I'm sure there will always be those of us that wish for the brown blank so bad that the green will never quite measure up :D . Regardless, I love fishing my sage rpl's , and my 3113, 3106 and 2106 rods, as much as i enjoy fishing my Talon rods, but, it don't really matter. I guess a sage is a sage is a sage, which for the modern angler equates to quality regardless of colour.
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Hi Brain,thanks for the response,i recently bought 2 centerpin rods from searun tackle,the 3106L and 3113m,but the only disappiontment i got from these 2 rods is the reel seat,which does not fit my talisman and the hardy long foot,plus it doesnt seat my islander,some of my JW young reels and most of my collection as well as my other pin rod seat,i guess you design on those seat are not just not deep and long enough,i did try to contact searun(kelly and andrew),they understand what i got into,but they just cannot help me with it ,unless they custom built one for me,o well. all i am trying to say your design was good but is not good enough,i also heard they have the same problem with some of the freds customers too. Hope this will help you with your design in the future,and please let me know if you have any suggestion. Thanks
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Big T,
I am aware of this problem with certain pins. Your Islander should fit, though??? Here's the problem. There is no standardized size for the foot on pins amongst individual manufacturers let alone the industry. Hardy is a perfect example. They have several lengths as well as widths. It sounds as though you have a bit of a collection and yes, your older ones are going to cause problems. From a design perspective, I had to choose a seat that would fit the majority of pins - Silex (mid 80's and newer), Islander, newer JW Youngs to name a few. If I was to go with a longer seat to accomodate some of the older reels, I'm sure there would be complaints about the 2" of exposed threads when using a newer pin. This is nothing new. I ran into this all the time when I was custom building at my shop. That was one reason why we used to do so many "W-Fittings". They'll fit anything but they're not durable enough for a factory rod application.
I would love to help you out on this one. Why don't you give me a shout next week at 604 944 9224 and I'll see what I can do. Alternatively, e-mail me at sagegear@telus.net I'm sure we can find a solution so that you can enjoy those rods with your collection. Thanks.
Brian Babcock
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Big T,
I am aware of this problem with certain pins. Your Islander should fit, though??? Here's the problem. There is no standardized size for the foot on pins amongst individual manufacturers let alone the industry. Hardy is a perfect example. They have several lengths as well as widths. It sounds as though you have a bit of a collection and yes, your older ones are going to cause problems. From a design perspective, I had to choose a seat that would fit the majority of pins - Silex (mid 80's and newer), Islander, newer JW Youngs to name a few. If I was to go with a longer seat to accomodate some of the older reels, I'm sure there would be complaints about the 2" of exposed threads when using a newer pin. This is nothing new. I ran into this all the time when I was custom building at my shop. That was one reason why we used to do so many "W-Fittings". They'll fit anything but they're not durable enough for a factory rod application.
I would love to help you out on this one. Why don't you give me a shout next week at 604 944 9224 and I'll see what I can do. Alternatively, e-mail me at sagegear@telus.net I'm sure we can find a solution so that you can enjoy those rods with your collection. Thanks.
Brian Babcock
Hi Brain ,Thanks for the response again,i had 2 newer JW young newer version(seldex ll and a trudex ll)and the islander,they all doesnt fit it far enough,may be caught on a litttle more than 1/16 of a inch on both side,i think the problem is the seat slot just not deep enough or you call that too shallow,but i will call you for sure next week,thanks for the concern.
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Appreciate the clarification Brian. Now everyone can go to bed knowing that they are the same blanks.
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How do we know this is the new Brian and not the old Brian???
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Xgolfman, that is a good line.
Brian B, new or old, could you elaborate on any of the rods which are in the works and Sage will go ahead with? I presume some are for us BC guys? Thanks.
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So Thomas, since you agreed with Brian.. Then the test that you or your buddy conduct is just a pile of BS that you made up to make yourself looks good ? BTW, which derby were you in at Noootka??
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How do we know this is the new Brian and not the old Brian???
The new is exactly the same as the old. Colour change only. Just grey now instead of brown!
Norm,
I can't get specific at this time as we are still in the testing stages. I will say that BC is the shining star in the Sage Gear program and we are certainly going to continue to address this market.
Brian
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Marco, chill it buddy, we have no beefs you and I.
I build rods for a rather eccentric friend of ours who is retired and has more $$ than he knows what to do with. I could care less about the "test" but he wanted to do it so... who cares. Has nothing to do with me "looking good". Anyhow, I know that Brian is the lead man on the new sage lines, and hearing it from him settles it. Am I gonna argue with him ... I don't think so and I think it's great that Brian came on here to settle the matter for everybody who has thier doubts.
Funny thing about this..... everyone including a ton of guys from this site, have been of the mind that the old ones are better... why do you think guys were trying to charge 300 plus for the old blanks, dusted off from in thier closets??? I'm not the only guy who questioned it so don't single me out. I can think of a few guys who emailed me in the past asking outrageous amounts for thier unbuilt blanks.... cuz they ain't like the new ones i kept hearing. what a joke.
Also, the Nootka derby I am invited to every year has been growing in size since 1999. It is an invitation only derby hosted by several business unrelated to fishing. The organizer has deep roots in nootka sound and is well known around those parts. Look for his lodge to be opening in the next year or so.
Our derby runs out of Tuta Bay marina and we are very close friends with the owners of that outfit as well, Larry and his family are awesome folks.
Anyhow, you guys wanna single me out because I want to question things.... far be it from me to stop ya, but don't go makin it personal. I'm not the only guy that raised the question.
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DOES IT REALLY MATTER? I MEAN THEY R BOTH GREAT RODS, WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT, IT'S ALL ABOUT PERSONAL PREFERENCE !
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Hi folks. I thought I had better jump in here and clarify a few things. First off, so everyone understands where I'm coming from, I have run the Sage Gear program for the past two years. Any and all changes are my responsibility. I initiated the factory rods and was responsible for the colour change. I develop all of the new models and decide which old ones stay.
For the record, the new green blanks are exactly the same as the old brown blanks. Colour change only.I hope this clears up any confusion.
Brian Babcock
Thanks for the input Brian!
As mentioned by SS there is some real Bee Ess on this thread and it's good to get the goods from the horse's mouth not his a**. ::)
I used to own a 3113MB but didn't like the slow action so bought a Loomis.
This was just after production of old the brown ones was stopped so the price skyrocketed and I ended up selling a 4 year old 3113 for a hundred more than I paid for it!
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I used to own a 3113MB but didn't like the slow action so bought a Loomis.
^ I CAN SEE WARRANTY WORK IN YOUR FUTURE !
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Why did sage call it a new line, at least i think Gear is a new line, of rods if they are exactly the same as the brown blanks?
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First off, Sage has never before offered factory Gear rods - so this is new. Second, although some models are the same as the old brown blanks, there is some new rods being offered - CT296F, CT396F, SP196, SP296, SP286, SP290. Additionally, there is some exciting new product on the horizon. All this considered, I think it is fair for Sage to call Gear a "new" program.
Brian
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I was looking a a custom rod builders web site and his blanks catalog (looked like it was provide by sage directly) talk of BAR FISHING rods they will be producing...man another great excuse to go out and buy another sage ;D