Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: bigguy on October 26, 2006, 11:52:00 PM
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Sure a great deal of whining and argueing going on! Whats up with that, every second post seems to discuss the ethics and rights and wrongs of fishing! Maybe it should be Whining With Rod! So many posts seem to justify their catches with " and I caught it in the mouth and released it gently". So many defensive people. ??? I am not trying to be a jerk but it just seems to go on and on and has gotten a lot worse in the last few years! There is definately an elitist and sometimes racist attitude taking place which is wrong. Correct me if you wish but read through a lot of the recent posts and you WILL see what I mean! :-\!
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Its on all the forums right now. I dont know what went wrong but things sure have gone way downhill lately everywhere. Everyone seems to be arguing with one another and its getting out of hand.
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Are you whining?
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Am I whining?
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Something must be in the air or all men are getting PMS :-\
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I am, because I am getting tired of it! Sure I can quit looking at the website but I have gained a great deal of info from people like yourself over the years Rod. But I don't like to read about how the Indians or the Asians or The Europeans are to blame. This has to be stopped or we are asking for real trouble! I am surprised that no one has brought in the Indo Canadians into this! I am probably part of the problem as well in some ways but we need to clean it up.
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I haven't even been to the Vedder this year but by what I read it must be a horrible place! Maybe people aren't catching enough fish! :-\
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i hate to be the one to say it, but with the growth of websites like this and fishbc, communications between fishermen have become more pronounce. it also acts as a media board where people are more inclined to participate through the open forum and newcomers use the site as a spring board to get involved in our sport...just my 2 cents worth of yarn.
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Something must be in the air or all men are getting PMS :-\
Brian, that's too funny....but you're not too far off ;)
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;)
Actually, I would like bigguy to point out which posts are whiney (ie. arguing/defending location of the hook, release technique). Beside BwiBwi's chum troll and Golfman's bad experience yesterda, I must have missed the other ones. Keep in mind that we are in peak forum season, post counts are at 150 to 250 per day, it should not surprise anyone if negative post counts go up as well. If every single post is positive, then what else is there to talk about?
The discussions of the current Vedder situation in the general discussion may seem whiney, but it has generated proactive movement including a meeting or two that will take place next month to review what can be done to minimize the problems on the Vedder. As long as no personal attacks are involved (and they haven't, members have been excellent with sticking to the issue instead of belittling each other), I see these as good things.
You feel that racism and stereotyping is slowly developing on the forum? Show it, report it when you see it so I can read through the posts over and over again. As an individual in the minority group of Canada, I don't think people are laying the blame on Asians, Europeans and Indians. Instead, people are recognizing that there are gaps that need to be fixed. New fishermen from minority groups are unaware of certain regulations and that needs to be addressed.
I'm looking down the list on the general discussion, can't really see whining:
Fishfreak posts his instruction on roe curing:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12442.0
Big Steel is happy about fishing in the rain tomorrow:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12440.0
Sunken truck on the Vedder, good to know and get it out of there ASAP:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12435.0
Cut up fish on the Vedder, unspoken work done by the fisheries being revealed to readers:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12436.0
Legend's poll on rain impacts on rivers:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12430.0
Lakebait wants to know if he is fishing right, forum members assisted him positively:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12431.0
More Fishfreak roe curing stuff, 3 pages of Q and A:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12309.0
Luna reel test:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12432.0
Weather report, snow forecast:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12401.0
Bulkley River, needs help, no whines yet:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12408.0
Old Black Dog lets us know the ECVI rivers are closed:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12433.0
Finding dead wild coho on the Vedder, catch and release mortality addressed:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12413.0
Pocket water:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12419.0
Despite golfman's bad trip, he likes fishing in the rain:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12428.0
Fishfreak asking who wants to fish today:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12414.0
No whines so far on the first page of general discussion, well... except this thread. ;)
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What about the one you blocked on Fishing Reports? Read " Silver Bars", come on Rod I am not blind and neither are you! I didn't say it was just today, I said recently or at least that is what I meant! It is funny that others can see it but you can't!
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Let's take a look at the report section. ;)
Some whine here, more like bitch slapping actually:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12427.0
but mostly generated from another thread.
Golfman had a bad day fishing, everyone has a bad day sometimes, he's allowed to talk about it, reports what he saw:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12425.0
Squamish River, blown out, something worth to whine, because it sucks when a river blows out:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12439.0
First Vedder trip for chuck, just reporting what he saw, and the reality is there are many negative stuff going on at the vedder:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12388.0
BwiBwi's chum trolling, having a bit of fun which I cut off at the end:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12384.0
Squamish high school trip:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12412.0
Lucky's good day on chinook:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12378.0
Legend's day on the Stave, found garbage, let people know. Garbage, can't say good thing about it, it's crap after all.
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12392.0
Excellent Squamish day for some members:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12404.0
Pretty good sturgeon day for legend:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12391.0
Good day for fish freak on the Vedder, until a troller that only posts once awhile jumps in:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12377.0
First trip to the stave for oldtrout, sounds good despite of no fish:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12396.0
Merc and Thickrick's good day on the Squamish:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12386.0
Vedder on Oct 20th for some members, mostly good experience, some bad:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12359.0
My Squamish report, kind of whiney:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12372.0
Kids started a positive thread, some troller forced me to lock it:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12370.0
Kids having a good day on the Vedder again, ko feels lonely, but others seem to be having a good time:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12364.0
Nuggy's unsuccessful's day on the Lower Fraser, it's ok to whine when no fish are caught right?
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12385.0
So in the report section, a few out of 20 threads involve whines, but if all fishing reports are good, then wouldn't fishing be boring? The atmosphere of the forum is controlled by members, it goes up and down, up, and down... When it is down, why is there a need to assume and fear everything is going to hell? After moderating it for 5 years, I think the forum is actually having its best time right now. With sometimes up to 90 people online at one time, you bound to have differences between people. Are we just going to agree with each other all the time?
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What about the one you blocked on Fishing Reports? Read " Silver Bars", come on Rod I am not blind and neither are you! I didn't say it was just today, I said recently or at least that is what I meant! It is funny that others can see it but you can't!
So what? Golfman's bad day is going to ruin the forum now? I better shut it down tomorrow before it snowballs because I can't seem to see it coming.
Hey Golfman, it's all your fault. ;)
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Big Guy, you summed it all up when you said "I haven't even been to the Vedder this year". Don't take offence to this...but you don't have a clue about whats going on and dare I say that its not just on the vedder but opn every river and sports fishing in general.
We used to go to this quite spot in yarrow, there would always be other fishers there, goups of 2 or 3 here and there....but I was blown away by my trip last saturday. it seemed every trough that was more than 3 feet deep had 10-20 people in it. Most of them fishing braid, way too long float to weight, and way to much leader. Mostly snagged fish, followed by flossed fish, followed by maybe 5% fair hooked. Its really sad to see. and these fishers are the type to drag a snagged chum up on the rock and fking it back with their foot when their done...its quite discusting. If you look at these lines they are identical to the fraser. It use to be that 10-15 feet would be a tolerable distance from one fisher to the next under busy curcumstances...now you will have guys walk in between you and a buddy who are 10 feet apart!
Any how, when a guy at this run snagged his 6th fish, I explained if he had a shorter leader, he would be less likely to snag them...his response was that these fish dont bite so he needs the long leader to floss them. I was shocked that this guy didn't even know how to get a strike and actually thought they wouldnt bite...why fish then?. As it happened, he was Asian but his ignorance wasn't confined to his race, there were Europeans, Canadians, etc all out there flossing away, not having a clue of what they are doing. This isn't a "racist" thing as you put it.
The level of degridation taking place within recreational fishing is sickening...and its not an eletist/racist thing either. Most countries and races have a different attitude towards the environment and its resources and what we are seeing is more and more PEOPLE with an absaolute lack of caring, taking part in our sport.
Just hit the vedder this weekend and tell us all if you now understand what we are talking about.
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If there's one thing I can't stand it's people whining, or for that matter people whining about whining. There's a sign on my office door that even says it...
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a391/troutbreath/nowhining.jpg)
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Very nice Bill !!!! LMFAO
DAMN WHINERS
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This is the whiniest topic so far :)
With so much cheese on this site (dudes flexing muscles?! hahaha ), a little whine is needed to properly balance it out...;) I havent seen any evidence of racism on the site at all...maybe thats because im a racially insensitive honky? Ah wait, it must be the anti-bass sentiment some share with me...Shame on us!
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This is the whiniest topic so far :)
With so much cheese on this site (dudes flexing muscles?! hahaha ),
Just had to get that jab in there eh ???? ::)
damn skinny guys ;D ;D
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Hehe, all in fun dude! You guys have a good time posting those pics and we have a good time giving you a light ribbing for it :)
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Absolutely all in fun !!!!! :D
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What about the one you blocked on Fishing Reports? Read " Silver Bars", come on Rod I am not blind and neither are you! I didn't say it was just today, I said recently or at least that is what I meant! It is funny that others can see it but you can't!
You know BIGGUY..as I started reading this I figured you were talking about me...So ill answer the call...you state you haven't been on the vedder but you CAN make the calls on who is doing what...If your calling what I'm saying Racist then YOUR a joke...your political correctness is a prime example of what is wrong and going wrong in your country...Oop's another special or social interest group doing wrong..oh just look the other way and don't offend anyone...What crap...I was reporting what I saw, I didn't exaggerate or make up any of it...Unless your out there to see for yourself how can you make such a statement??? I grew up in and went to school where 35% of the population was Black, I went through riots and whole lot of bad sh*t....Was fun going to school with a pipe in the back of your boot...funny thing was in time we all learned to get along and deal with one another...Respect is earned not given..No one looked away and made excuses which to me is what your saying....Oh stop the whining and racists attacks, What and lay down and give your rivers away to group(s) of people who don't give a crap about your country and its resources???? It doesn't matter what color your skin is or religion, what matters is I'm seeing a whole group of guys who seem to think the number one priority is to kill everything they land and by whatever means is possible...Why? Maybe because they can and it's free and no one is stopping them because you are to worried about "offending" someone...
I constantly read on these forums how ONE guy will actually make a stand by telling someone..."Hey, this river isn't open to bait fishing" or "You caught your limit, why are you still fishing?" and everyone rewards them with "Hooray" and "Great job"....You should be saying "About time" and all of us stop making excuses and being so damn afraid of the "bad guys" because they could be carrying bear spray or something...Goddammit...you were born with balls, how bout using them for a change!!!! We ALL need to do something to change it or it's going to be gone...period..and don't for a second think your government wouldn't be happy letting it happen so they could dam the Fraser!!!...That's probably not to far down the road either....
I've said enough....I wrote what I wrote and half expected a reply like yours...and I'm more then willing to defend what I said and ask you something to...Is it offending you because your included in that group? Because if it is, I would like to ask how come your countryman all seem to think that is an accepted way to fish? How come no one in your community is stepping up and telling them to stop the rape of your adopted country???? To sensitive of an issue for you??? Either deal with it on your feet or welcome it on your knees....THAT's HOW I REALLY FEEL!!!!
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Great BigGuy now you've gone and pissed off the XGolfman!!!! ::)
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Golfman, when I read your last report, I was quite surprised that your were giving the ethnic origin (or whatever you want to call it) of the "bad" fishermen you saw. I did not want to write it, but giving your previous post, I changed my mind. I remember a recent report where someone was speaking about American guys for one reason or another (snagging, keeping dark fish, I do not remember). If I remember correctly, You were not really happy about what you thought was a generalization of the American fishing behavior. So if you know how it hurts, why do you write this kind of things? If there are some people from Eastern Europe (or Asia or even the US :D, depending on the origins cited) reading this and really interested in fishing, you know they will feel bad. I just do not get it.
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He kinda caught you with your pants down behind the sheep on that one dude ;D!! Hey we all make mistakes guys...people say things they don't mean all the time. Earlier this week I mentioned in a post that BigSteels goat was getting out of control, and I didnt really mean it...well, ya i did but thats besides the point..
Im sure everyone here deep down has no real issues with people of different race (if thats even a valid "category"...i prefer the adaptation concept)... ok ...except maybe the french ;) kidding.
Relax guys!
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You are right.
It is crazy how I become susceptible with this kind of subject now that I am a stranger.
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All "strangeness" aside frenchy....I still think you're a good guy... ;) ;D
But in all seriousness guys...obviously by posts like these and others, recent trends on our local rivers have been noticed...and even more obvious is that a vast majority of people are upset and disturbed by the changes we have all begun to notice on the river...call it whatever you want, it is a problem that people here, including myself, have spoken up on. It is the bringing of issues like these out into the open that leads to discussion, and the voicing of support, (or discent), and inevitably to action. In my opinion even a thread like this is a good one to pull on...it's like the old adage: any publicity is good publicity...
So keep talking, keep debating, keep thinking about it...sooner or later this will lead to action. Whatever action that may be, I am sure contributions will vary from one person to the next, but as long as people keep discussing it, it stays in the forefront of our minds...as long as it does, people will think of it when the opportunity for action presents itself and that's a start.
rib
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IMO its "overflow" of hostility about the fraser flossery and how the practice itself has overflown into our other streams. Lots of negative energy on both sides of that debate, it isn't surprising to me that we're still feeling the shockwaves from this summers gong show (which for me was MUCH more evident this year). I still think we all need to relax and focus on constructive forms of criticizing each others methods...and not get on the defense so quickly when our own practices are concerned, after all, we're all here to learn and share. All too easy to get swept up in the frustration.
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Okay, here is my whine.
Some of the posts here are kind of unpleasant to read. I like this forum. I have learned alot about equipment, techniques and in particular fishing conditions. And I enjoy the exchange of ideas and the debates. However, some people get too preachy for my taste. In particular, I almost get the feeling that you have to be a member of the United Church of Short Floaters to post here or to fish the Vedder without getting criticized.
For example, I like to flyfish on the Vedder and I like reading the flyfishing posts, but a lot of times I feel very defensive when I read all those accusations that flyfishing is just flossing. FYI, I have tried flyfishing with a bare hook, but I have never hooked a fish in the mouth that way. Not very scientific, but it leads me to believe that bit of wool or feathers must make them bite and that I am not just flossing them. Sure, I get the occasional snag while flyfishing, but if I keep my adreneline in check and resist the urge to yank on a bump this rarely happens. Also, because I use small hooks, the hooks will usually bend and pull out.
Another example of the effect that this forum has on me: I stay away from fishing at Keith Wilson Bridge. Quite frankly, I am afraid one of you guys will take a picture of me in that crowd and post it with "snagger" in the description. Or some of you may lump me in with some Eastern European, Asian or American group of allegedly "unethical" fisherman.
My final example is related to bottom bouncing. Some people here are very narrowminded and rant to much about this method of fishing. It is not illegal. It is not unethical. People have written books on it (Bill Herzog - Drift Fishing) I would say that this is the predominant method in Washington and Oregon (go to www.steelheader.net; interestingly, some of the American drift fishers are of the opinion that a long leader is necessary to avoid snagging and that a person using a leader less than 2 feet makes it easier to belly snag a fish). I haven't tried bottom bouncing, but I appreciate that flyfishing with a sink tip is a comparable method. Personally, I like the direct feel to the hook; I like feeling the bottom of the river; I get excited when my line bump into fish (let's me know they are there, but will also scare them away; forces me to adjust my drift); I get exhilarated when they take the hook and I feel the immediate tug of the line in my fingers (IMO, beats watching a bobber all day).
BTW, have you ever considered that short floating may be contributing to some of the problems in the Vedder. Bottom bouncing, flyfishing and no doubt spey fishing all require alot of space to do properly. Only float fishing permits you to fish shoulder to shoulder and to cast over each other. Read the posts of the American anglers on Steelheader.net when they come to the Vedder. When they come up, they have to go to Fred's to pick up the gear and techniques so that they can fish in the combat fishing conditions.
FYI, I do float fish. I even cured some roe recently. I think that float fishing can be more productive than fly fishing. However, I just enjoy fighting a fish on a fly rod more(cheap reel which requires palming, a series of lines, knots and loops which could give way any second and an 8 wt rod which will make me proud the day it blows up while fighting a big chum). Maybe my next casting rod needs to be lighter weight for me to enjoy baitcasting.
Anyways, I hope I didn't offend anybody.
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i've met alot of members from this forum. all decent people, unfortunately from time to time we forget about the human aspect when we communicate through a computer screen. we try not to offend one other because we share a common bond, but unfortunately it happens.
words written don't always show true context and can be misconstrued. i'm guilty of this as is everyone else.
big guy i understand where you're coming from and i respect that. where as i respect xgolfman's anger because he spoke the truth.
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I was gonna take the weekend off the forum and told Rodney I would because I hate blowing up on any of these...I'm not a guy who will just say anything and hide behind my computer screen..I tend to wear my feelings on my sleeves maybe a little too much...but I will say this,,When I ever see an American up on your rivers and they are fishing un ethically ..i.e. snagging etc. I will say something to them...I won't be nice or polite...I tell them they are guest in another country and to pull their heads out of their asses and respect where they are...I HATE seeing these kind of idiots come up and give the rest of us a bad name.....
So, at times I will call a spade a spade...and if I'm wrong on some account I'll hold myself accountable and apologize...What I'm seeing is what I was reporting...and to me, this year it seems a whole lot more of it and them then I've seen before...Yes, I think the sockeye season is to blame in part..but I'm not going to paint all the valid fisherman with the same brush...I don't have a problem with a guy learning to fish and not knowing any better...These guys do know better but don't care...I was amazed at how sophisticated their equipment was and commented on it to my buddy...these guys are mercenary's to the fishing world, they are out to catch and kill anything they can and don't give a rats a$$ if you like it or not...That has to stop!!!
Sorry for preaching so much in one day, bigguy if I came off as an ******* to you it's because I find it extremely offensive to be called a racist...I hate everyone equally...goodnight!!
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I was going to post some nice pics of me beeking sockeye under the Keith Wilson bridge but decided against it. ;D Wasn't worth being recognized, and listening to the whining >:( Anyone know any good metal bands from Eastern Europe :-\
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>:( Anyone know any good metal bands from Eastern Europe :-\
the scorpions
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Well said, Funpig!
No one should be afraid of being ambushed or verbally assaulted while fishing.
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Well once again my comments, although maybe a bit exagerated "every second post", have created some active responses. It must be the teacher in me :o . My comments were, as some have mentioned, in NO way meant to slag or disrespect Rod and the overall website! I enjoy this website and most of the interaction that takes place, I have learned a great deal from the likes of Rod, Chris and others, but that doesn't mean that I can't disagree. I also appreciate a great deal, the effort that some members have put towards the positive movement to better educate people about ehtical fishing, I hope that it makes a difference but I also wonder if it is too late. Good luck and believe it or not I try my best to help wherever I can.
golfman you ask if I am part of the problem, well like most of us I FLOSS on the Fraser and maybe my leader gets a bit too long on the Vedder and sometimes I don't use a float,( good points FUNPIG, I was going to ask golfman about those same poitnts), but overall I am an ehtical and I believe accepting member of the fishing community. Oh I forgot, I don't always hook fish perfectly in the point of the mouth. ;) And once when I was first learning I did kick a pink back into the water! But now I know better! ;)
I am also a transplanted American, not by my choice, from Tacoma. My father, a career military man was and still is an extreme racist, so maybe that is why I take offence when I see those postings, (thank you Nina, and others), so I do feel that they are not needed. There are ethical and nonethical (if that is a word) people from several cultures on the rivers so there is no need to mention culture or race. I too get frustrated with the Vedder and Fraser gong show, maybe that is why I have not fished the Vedder this year, but I certainly appreciate what others are trying to do to educate people. By the way after living in Canada for as long as I have, I think that I will stay, as I feel that Canadians, because of their mix of cultures are much more accepting of others. I don't think that we need the WE ARE THE BEST attitude. (Atlthough that I must say that the American border guards are much friendlier than their Canadian counterparts, maybe because they have guns!;)). Anyway I could go on a great deal about politics, but this is a fishing website.
Funpig you made some solid points in your post, I think that in a much more sloppy manner I was trying to say the same thing! I like the comment of Church Of Short Liners, as that is the general impression that I am feeling! I too have read Herzogs books and find it interesting that bottom bouncing is quite well accepted in the US but somewhat frowned upon on the Vedder. Maybe someone could explaiin why? Once again FUNPIG a good post and I bet that there are a lot of others who feel the same way but may feel hesitant to post!
So once again ROD, take no personal offence. And yes next time I will bring a huge supply of cheese, made in Armstrong! Relax and hopefully everyone will catch a lot of fish and our male PMS will be eliminated! !
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>:( Anyone know any good metal bands from Eastern Europe :-\
the scorpions
Gorgoroth, Vader, Behemoth.
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"I don`t think there is to much whining going on here, if anyone should be whining it should be Rodney. "
And he does, oh yes he does indeed. ::) ;D
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"I don`t think there is to much whining going on here, if anyone should be whining it should be Rodney. "
And he does, oh yes he does indeed. ::) ;D
lol.... Rodney I think you better accept that offer of cheese.... might taste good with your whine!!.... :P :P
Shane
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Lets say I do not use the same tactics on the Vedder. But i do bottom bounce at times which IS a perfectly acceptable and ethical practice. I do not rip the line through the water. :) I think what I am trying to say by gong show, is the overall way that people crowd together and the unneeded manhandling of the fish.. I also am not happy with the argueing, name calling etc. But once again, I did not say or imply that I was perfect Bill.. :) When did flossing on the Fraser become wrong?
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lol.... Rodney I think you better accept that offer of cheese.... might taste good with your whine!!.... :P :P
Shane
I'll be eating a lot of cheese in about five weeks from now, so I think I will wait. ;)
After all the flossing debate this summer, I see that we are back to square one again.
I won't type up a whole essay again, since I'm going fishing in the morning. ::) Bigguy, some valid concerns, which I have addressed many times to remind people what this place is all about. The website is a business of mine, the forum is set up for everyone to use. It is not an organization, ie. united church of short floaters, which has a mission statement and hopes to create a movement in the fishing community for self interest. The forum is designed to cater all, young, old, different ethnic, cultural backgrounds, different fishing styles. In the past few weeks I've posted a couple of times regarding the importance of not stereotyping anglers based on where they fish. At times problems on the river become so bad, it creates a witch hunt type of movement. Taking photographs of anglers who are perceived as fishing illegally and posting them here is absolutely unacceptable. I have brought that up several times, and so far no one has done such a thing. If it occurs in the future, the poster would be hearing from me right away.
Funpig describes the forum as somewhat anti-flyfishing. Well, not entirely true. Majority of the forum membership is drift/gear fishermen, simply because the content being offered on the website. This doesn't mean the website is anti-flyfishing (I flyfish, at times, or try to). The forum simply lacks flyfishermen who actively post information. FishBC already has a forum that caters flyfishermen. It is often accused as an anti-gear fishermen forum, I don't find it that way. I participate on that forum regularly too, and find myself very welcome even though I primarily gear fish. You simply can't judge a forum or website based on a few vocal members' opinion. The forum community is driven by its members, I have no control on which way it should go. If you want more participants from the flyfishing side, then be actively involved in the flyfishing board.
Finally, has it occured to anyone that the root of the original problem (whining) is not caused by the forum? People are whining because of their bad experience on the river. Nobody likes to whine for no reason. Most people, except trollers, would want to see a positive atmosphere on the forum. The problems sit at the rivers and they are not going away. Instead of whining about whiners on the forum, how about getting involved and developing solutions and compromises for our river fisheries that can eventually stop the whining?
Damn, this turned out to be an essay after all. Good thing we gain one hour tonight.
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funpig, I respect your thoughts and in some ways I agree with you!
I still think that BBING is a bit unethical though.. but legal.
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I too have read Herzogs books and find it interesting that bottom bouncing is quite well accepted in the US but somewhat frowned upon on the Vedder. Maybe someone could explaiin why?
By reading you're response I can see that you just don't understand what people are saying on this site, to me it is quite obvious... we hate watching people rip their lines through the water in hopes of snagging a fish !!! it doesn't matter how you do it!! with a float without a float, bottom bouncing, shortfloating whatever!!! it is the intentions of people that is the problem , you ask why bottom bouncing shouldn't be allowed ?? because people abuse it.. yes bottom bouncing the right way can be an effective way of targeting the fish to bite, the problem is most people use this technique for maximum snagging benefits!!! caling it a church of short floating is just silly. shortfloating is the most effective way of fishing with a float and enticing the fish to bite that is all !! we are not elitists because we choose to fish this way, I personally am sick and tired of watching idiots treat our resourses like garbage, I am tired of watching people snag fish, kick fish , drag them up on the beach and leave their garbage eveywhere, and no I don't just whine on here I take care of it in real life !!! if you choose to snag kick or litter in front of me on the river , I am going to do something about it.. if that makes me an elitist then so be it !!
I am going fishing now have a nice day
TR
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I realize im not a subscribing member of this forum and my opion means little ;) but i agree with Bill wanna solve the problem nip it off at the roots snagging on the fraser is not any different then snagging on the vedder :)
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Have a good day fishing Rod...bring us back a pic or two...
rib