Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: Fisherbob on January 20, 2013, 09:31:47 AM
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/01/18/alexandra-mortons-furunculosis-fable/
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But she never said the story was non-fiction....... ;)
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Like the old saying goes... never pass judgement based on hear say until you know the facts.
so where's the forum's evangelists now to defend Alex Morton and her use of templates for spreading fear monger? or would this latest report just pass as another pro lot propaganda?...because lately i'm finding a pattern where anti feedlot protestors will ask the pro lots for definitive proof to defend their stance, yet can't answer basic questions about discrepancies in their statements and similarities in reports/findings where they're so adamant about their claim of devastation.
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The link provided by Fisherbob is a great site to read another side of the fishfarming issue, one not mentioned by Morton et al. Sign up for the automatic updates.
As blaydrnr says, read this stuff then make up your minds; don`t allow others to do that for you.
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Dave I think you meant the link was one sided view from salmon farmers. :)
http://salmonfarmscience.com/about/
I'm sending it to "the onion" for them to do a spoof on.
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Like the old saying goes... never pass judgement based on hear say until you know the facts.
so where's the forum's evangelists now to defend Alex Morton and her use of templates for spreading fear monger? or would this latest report just pass as another pro lot propaganda?...because lately i'm finding a pattern where anti feedlot protestors will ask the pro lots for definitive proof to defend their stance, yet can't answer basic questions about discrepancies in their statements and similarities in reports/findings where they're so adamant about their claim of devastation.
Interesting how quickly you folks hang your hats on a salmon feedlot enquirer publication.... Is it because they put "science" in their name?
Note how they describe themselves..... "We are people who work in aquaculture..... We are interested in science, particularly the science of salmon farming, and want to share our passion with others. We choose to remain anonymous because we do not wish to open our personal lives up to attack....... "
Sounds a little like what the dictionary defines as "coward". At least Morton is front and center with her opposition to feedlots.
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At least Morton is front and center with her opposition to feedlots.
Of course she is because that's her only platform in her quest to save wild salmon.
So far she has declined to answer questions on this site, even with blinkered supporters to back her words, whatever they might be ..
What are FWR readers to take from her decision to be silent???
On the chance Ms. Morton is indeed reading this ... please show us the data you have collected and report on in the media or your blog ... that same data funded by your supporters, whoever they are because they don`t seem willing to admit funding you, at least here.
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From Alex's notepad. http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2013/01/salmon-feedlots-this-was-not-a-mistake.html
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Interesting how quickly you folks hang your hats on a salmon feedlot enquirer publication.... Is it because they put "science" in their name?
Note how they describe themselves..... "We are people who work in aquaculture..... We are interested in science, particularly the science of salmon farming, and want to share our passion with others. We choose to remain anonymous because we do not wish to open our personal lives up to attack....... "
Sounds a little like what the dictionary defines as "coward". At least Morton is front and center with her opposition to feedlots.
funny how you mention science since her scientifically based studies have never been fully accredited...why? because when asked about the discrepancies in her findings and publications (including quotes made by her), she never went on record to explain why there were uncanny similarities to the pattern of decline in salmon stock which correlated with historical data predating the commencement of salmon feedlots...she couldn't even come up with a variance report pointing out any significant differences in percentage drops.
she's great when it comes to publicity, but fails in making appearances when put under the microscope.
Posted by: chris gadsden
Insert Quote
From Alex's notepad. http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2013/01/salmon-feedlots-this-was-not-a-mistake.html
95% of what i read was based on the 'monetary' aspect and entitlement of the waterways...where's the bulk of her argument dealing with the sea lice infestation and pathogens that she's so highly concerned about?
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Sounds a little like what the dictionary defines as "coward". At least Morton is front and center with her opposition to feedlots.
This pretty much says it all…..
“she's great when it comes to publicity, but fails in making appearances when put under the microscope.”
Morton is great promoting her theories, but apparently refuses to back them up or defend them when questioned. What is “cowardly” is that she leaves this site when the questioning becomes too uncomfortable for her to answer. It certainly was not because people on this site were rude or asked totally out-of-bounds questions. Her quick departure speaks volumes because if she is the expert her followers make her out to be then she should be able to answer those questions on the spot. If she is as comfortable making those claims in front of a camera or to screaming followers at a protest rally then responding to questions on an internet fishing forum where she can check her facts at her leisure should be no problem. The fact is that they were not difficult questions or unfair. Even a simple yes or no would have sufficed for some of them. Instead, she puts more effort in making unsubstantiated claims on this site and promoting another petition based on more false information. Instead, she has the audacity to make demands for others to answer her questions and provide proof of their position while she passes the buck when the situation is not the “love-in” she is used to. What’s worse is that she gets her followers on this site to defend her position for her.
While salmonfarmscience may be a bit sarcastic at times when posting about Morton they allow opposing points of view as long as the comments are not nasty free-for-all. On the other hand, Morton’s blog is hardly a forum where opposing views are openly welcomed because she is very selective when opposing views are presented. What salmonfarmscience does that Morton often does not is provide the whole reference so you can read it for yourself. As with Morton’s latest blog post, she provides only what she wants you to see to make her argument.
Coward: a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.; a timid or easily intimidated person.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/coward?s=t
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Note how they describe themselves..... "We are people who work in aquaculture..... We are interested in science, particularly the science of salmon farming, and want to share our passion with others. We choose to remain anonymous because we do not wish to open our personal lives up to attack....... "
Sounds a little like what the dictionary defines as "coward". At least Morton is front and center with her opposition to feedlots.
it's funny how when protesters rally, they need to promote their gatherings as PEACEFUL PROTEST ...geez i wonder why? it's not like environmentalist have a history of spiking trees, blowing up pipelines or making death threats...could it have anything to do with Eco terrorism or something along those lines? ::)
i guess if i was concerned about my own family's safety, you could also label me as coward ...maybe you'd be different?
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This pretty much says it all…..
Quite defensive aren't we.....
Are you one of "anonymous" writers on the salmon farming "science" site? :o ::)
PS: We won't tell anyone, it can be our little secret. ;D ;D
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......." We choose to remain anonymous because we do not wish to open our personal lives up to attack....... "
Sounds a little like what the dictionary defines as "coward".
What was it you said your name was? Oh, that's right......you didn't say.......you choose to remain anonymous.......
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What was it you said your name was? Oh, that's right......you didn't say.......you choose to remain anonymous.......
Welcome back absolon... I'd like to say you were missed, but.......
Many people know my name..... and no it's not "anonymous". ;D
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No doubt many people know the names of those behind the salmon farm science site as well and it's not "anonymous" either. However, by your own definition, if they are cowards, so are you.
In any case, what you choose to call them (and by extension, yourself) is entirely irrelevant to the original point. The facts that were presented to refute Morton's repeated claims are what is relevant and no amount of diversion or deflection changes that.
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Quite defensive aren't we.....
Are you one of "anonymous" writers on the salmon farming "science" site? :o ::)
PS: We won't tell anyone, it can be our little secret. ;D ;D
Pot please meet kettle...lol. ;D
Keep deflecting
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What was it you said your name was? Oh, that's right......you didn't say.......you choose to remain anonymous.......
Good one.
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It would appear that in his haste to discredit those who don't share his views, our resident loose cannon didn't take the time to think his statements through. Wonder how often that happens?
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So Fisherbob, since you asked the question ... do you still believe?
af, you must have another ball to fire from your cannon ...or perhaps not as your stance seems to be losing credibility and support among readers on this forum.
Not to worry though as Chris mentioned a fund raiser for Ms. Morton coming up, locally, only $55 to attend. Sounds like a great opportunity to mingle with 6 or 7 like minded people and perhaps even eat some wild salmon, most likely FN harvested ... Tax deductible receipts are offered, right?
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... your stance seems to be losing credibility and support among readers on this forum.
Do you have some stats to back up that statement...... or are you just spouting off like your feedlot buddies tend to do? :D
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Does not appear as though AF has more cannon balls left, Dave.
(http://www.solarnavigator.net/boats/boats_images/torpedo_detonating_sinking_naval_destroyer.jpg)
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Are you now resorting to posting irrelevant pictures Steve?
That sort of charge would probably work well if dropped in a feedlot... ;D
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So Fisherbob, since you asked the question ... do you still believe?
I have not reached a conclusion Dave. To do so would mean I stopped thinking. The feedlot gang bring up very good points to think about.
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^^^^^^ Oops. But I am sure you can figure out what I said.
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I have not reached a conclusion Dave. To do so would mean I stopped thinking.
Way to go Fisherbob...... Unfortunately the feedlot gang have bought into the "science" and "stopped thinking" long ago. ::)
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Are you now resorting to posting irrelevant pictures Steve?
That sort of charge would probably work well if dropped in a feedlot... ;D
Quite defensive aren't we.....? ;D
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You can see the fish farmers panicking now, attacks on peoples character are a last resort to save their sinking ship.
I say take your putrid, rotting, tie dyed Salmon that lacks the health benefits of real Salmon and go farm it elsewhere.
The only boost to our BC economy that fish farming has provided is in the bank accounts of poloticians who received money to look the other way from real science.
The Science that has been shown world wide on open net Salmon farming,
I am sure I'll get a single point argument from the pro feedlot gang asking me to prove something I cannot, like a bad Peirs Morgan anti gun rant. Guess what, I have to prove nothing to you, I care less your opinion on Alexandra Morton. To me Alex is a hero, taking a non monetary gain stance against fish farming. I am sure the Norweign fish farmers brought their troubled history fish farms to BC to save our economy, provide jobs for our poor aboriginal peoples and feed the starving masses ;). Truth is they are only interested in the MONEY, nothing more, and have proven time and again that they only follow their own Science and will not accept any that does not agree with theirs.
Please save your breath on attacking my character, as I will never eat a Farmed Salmon, nor will my family or any of my relatives or my friends and their families. In fact SCIENCE shows that a huge number of BC residents are also NOT eating farmed Salmon. So we, the majority of people in BC, are asking nicely, GET OUT of BC with your poisonous fish farms .
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Another rant from the save a wild fish by eating a wild fish crew. LOL
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Rod, I recall you being very careful about what you eat and prefer to grow your own veggies and raise chickens and lambs. Do you and your family eat anything farm raised, other than your own?
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Boycott any business that sells farmed open pen salmon!
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...this topic is like a carousel.
but i'd sure like to be around 50 years from now when a chinook over 10 lbs is considered a tyee and pink salmon becomes the new sockeye fishery with a one per day limit.
i'd say too, unless you only consume pure organics, wild animals and don't profit from the industry including hatcheries... blow it out your ear because there's nothing worse than a self righteous hypocrite.
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but i'd sure like to be around 50 years from now when a chinook over 10 lbs is considered a tyee and pink salmon becomes the new sockeye fishery with a one per day limit.
You may be right. As Justice Cohen pointed out, climate change may be the biggest threat to Fraser sockeye. Changes to freshwater migration, spawning and rearing habitats coupled with the warming and acidification of the oceans, with ocean ranching from Alaska, Japan and Russia grazing down their ocean forage thrown in, may push salmon out of southern BC, Washington and Oregon altogether in the next half century.
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You may be right. As Justice Cohen pointed out, climate change may be the biggest threat to Fraser sockeye. Changes to freshwater migration, spawning and rearing habitats coupled with the warming and acidification of the oceans, with ocean ranching from Alaska, Japan and Russia grazing down their ocean forage thrown in, may push salmon out of southern BC, Washington and Oregon altogether in the next half century.
Wouldn't the feedlots be happy if that scenario played out! >:(
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Dave, I prefer to eat things as close to their natural state as possible, that goes for veggies, meat, fruit etc., I am not eating much meat at all these days, I eat fish I catch not frozen, fresh.
I stopped raising roaster Chickens immediately when I realized these were all gentically modified freaks that grow to maturity in 6 weeks, disgusting. Same goes for our layers, we raise our own from eggs from our farm, no genetically modified super layers for us. But really who can live in this world without some hypocritical behaviour when it comes to living naturally.
But this does not mean that we have to support things that are wrong because we are not perfect.
Salmon farming as it is practised here in BC and everywhere else it has been done in the past has a terrible track record and when there are clear cover ups of enviromental disasters and outbreaks of disease, how can you stand behind the industry.
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Dave, I prefer to eat things as close to their natural state as possible, that goes for veggies, meat, fruit etc., I am not eating much meat at all these days, I eat fish I catch not frozen, fresh.
I stopped raising roaster Chickens immediately when I realized these were all gentically modified freaks that grow to maturity in 6 weeks, disgusting. Same goes for our layers, we raise our own from eggs from our farm, no genetically modified super layers for us. But really who can live in this world without some hypocritical behaviour when it comes to living naturally.
But this does not mean that we have to support things that are wrong because we are not perfect.
Well stated.
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Dave, I prefer to eat things as close to their natural state as possible, that goes for veggies, meat, fruit etc., I am not eating much meat at all these days, I eat fish I catch not frozen, fresh.
I stopped raising roaster Chickens immediately when I realized these were all gentically modified freaks that grow to maturity in 6 weeks, disgusting. Same goes for our layers, we raise our own from eggs from our farm, no genetically modified super layers for us. But really who can live in this world without some hypocritical behaviour when it comes to living naturally.
But this does not mean that we have to support things that are wrong because we are not perfect.
Salmon farming as it is practised here in BC and everywhere else it has been done in the past has a terrible track record and when there are clear cover ups of enviromental disasters and outbreaks of disease, how can you stand behind the industry.
Well said.
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Dave, I prefer to eat things as close to their natural state as possible, that goes for veggies, meat, fruit etc., I am not eating much meat at all these days, I eat fish I catch not frozen, fresh.
I stopped raising roaster Chickens immediately when I realized these were all gentically modified freaks that grow to maturity in 6 weeks, disgusting. Same goes for our layers, we raise our own from eggs from our farm, no genetically modified super layers for us. But really who can live in this world without some hypocritical behaviour when it comes to living naturally.
But this does not mean that we have to support things that are wrong because we are not perfect.
Salmon farming as it is practised here in BC and everywhere else it has been done in the past has a terrible track record and when there are clear cover ups of enviromental disasters and outbreaks of disease, how can you stand behind the industry.
I agree
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Open or closed containment pens for farmed salmon, Either one will destroy the Eco system! The fish feed they use for farmed salmon is among other ingredients , anchovies, herring , and other fishes. . What do whales , salmon , birds, sea lions etc . Feed on? If you want all these creatures to exist, say no to fish farms of any kind! When you go grocery shopping next time , look in the meat department , if they sell farmed salmon, WALK OUT! If a restaurant has farmed salmon on the menu , WALK OUT! If you get them in the wallet , they will soon stop selling this crap!
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Open or closed containment pens for farmed salmon, Either one will destroy the Eco system! The fish feed they use for farmed salmon is among other ingredients , anchovies, herring , and other fishes. . What do whales , salmon , birds, sea lions etc . Feed on? If you want all these creatures to exist, say no to fish farms of any kind! When you go grocery shopping next time , look in the meat department , if they sell farmed salmon, WALK OUT! If a restaurant has farmed salmon on the menu , WALK OUT! If you get them in the wallet , they will soon stop selling this crap!
You must have a strong opposition to salmon ranching and in this case how can it be ok to buy a wild fish?
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Strong opposition to fish farms . maybe you don't understand what I said , if not read again
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A lot of these pig farms , chicken farms , cow farms , vegetable farms are big polluters too. Just go look at the ditches that drain these fields , all that run off goes right into the Fraser and off to the ocean . I'm not against farming, of course. I'm against having too many animals on a piece of land , that is too small. Have you ever smelled the chemicals these vegetable farmers spread on there fields , well I have !. All these chemicals end up in the ocean .