Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: chris gadsden on August 27, 2020, 04:01:39 PM
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Will it happen? https://www.theprogress.com/news/fishing-groups-demand-test-fishery-on-the-fraser-river-for-chinook/?fbclid=IwAR29ZCjCRUwiWQgm0ZDShkJlKTEFpoF1wTDs7t-5q4jQVMWgReeo8-6szas
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Yup.
I'm surprised a request for retention of Sturgeon gill net hasn't been requested yet
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Will it happen? https://www.theprogress.com/news/fishing-groups-demand-test-fishery-on-the-fraser-river-for-chinook/?fbclid=IwAR29ZCjCRUwiWQgm0ZDShkJlKTEFpoF1wTDs7t-5q4jQVMWgReeo8-6szas
From the article:
The letter proposing a “bar fishing test fishery” was signed by reps of Fraser River Sport Fishing Alliance, B.C. Federation of Drift Fishers, Fraser Valley Salmon Society, Public Fishery Alliance, Fraser Valley Guides Association, Vancouver Sport Fishing Guides Association.
The bar-fishing method they’re advocating for targeting chinook, also called spring salmon, uses different gear than bottom-bouncing or flossing to target sockeye salmon, and predates the Fraser sockeye fishery. Bar fishers fish from shore using a shorter leader of three feet maximum and heavier weights. They use a single, barbless hook from a fixed fishing rod, and a lure known as a spin-n-glow.
So they're requesting an opening where only the technique of bar fishing is permitted? I am curious as to how this would even work. There is no definition of bar fishing nor bottom bouncing in the regs. Would they not have to make new definitions a part those in-season updates, and is that even possible?
I recall when sockeye was open the updates would have wording trying to discourage flossing, but really didnt have any teeth. If they were able to allow/prohibit specific methods, wouldn't they have done so back then.
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Also probably why non selective netting is still permitted. Its too bad that the wording or type of fishing can't be changed in the regs to help non target species. I think were getting to the point where we are to politically correct to do the right thing for the fish not whats in the best interest of human beings.
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there is really no way to do it beyond a leader length regulation.
The proposed period also includes the timing of interior coho returns and more significantly (early) Interior Steelhead. The later were formerly caught frequently by the same methods to take chinook.
Currently the Fraser is also closed to trout fishing to protect IFS.
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there is really no way to do it beyond a leader length regulation.
If we're talking theoretically, what about combining with a minimum weight. What's the largest weight used for flossing? Double it for bar fishing.
ie. "at least one weight greater than 100 grams (or whatever) must be attached to the line. All weights must be attached within 100 cm of the hook"
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If we're talking theoretically, what about combining with a minimum weight. What's the largest weight used for flossing? Double it for bar fishing.
ie. "at least one weight greater than 100 grams (or whatever) must be attached to the line. All weights must be attached within 100 cm of the hook"
for bar fishing from Chilliwack and upstream weights of 12 to 20oz are common.
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there is really no way to do it beyond a leader length regulation.
The proposed period also includes the timing of interior coho returns and more significantly (early) Interior Steelhead. The later were formerly caught frequently by the same methods to take chinook.
Currently the Fraser is also closed to trout fishing to protect IFS.
Yep.
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Your off the water because first nations have demanded it. Period full stop
Might as well write off the Fraser and just focus on saving the Chilliwack fall season.
What I’ve heard is stolo, sumas, Harrison and one other First Nation have and are making plans to net it but have yet to come to terms.
Also hate to break it to you but closing the Fraser to recs was a ministerial decision and put into the IFMP. Therefor it can only be undone by the dfo minister. In other words not a
Chance of hell of happening and a gear regulation change is just as hopeless.
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True WMY though the Minister's direction derives from law. It is not something DFO makes up because the FNs say so.
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The proposed period also includes the timing of interior coho returns and more significantly (early) Interior Steelhead. The later were formerly caught frequently by the same methods to take chinook.
Speaking of interior Steelhead and Coho, hopefully they benefit from the lessened fishing pressure from all sectors. But I notice the FN openings require "mandatory sockeye release" - do they also require mandatory release of coho and steelhead?
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Ya like that's happening. By catch released from a gill net and monitoring. Complete lies.
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AFAIK all the Fraser Band groups are on board with reducing the impact on IFS and IFC to the extent possible . Where they did and have taken sturgeon historically they have not been taking a sturgeon food catch for a few decades.
Of course those fish are caught as by-catch during net openings. Mortality is high for those particularly in set nets.
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https://www.theprogress.com/news/dfo-will-not-be-authorizing-a-test-fishery-for-fraser-river-chinook-salmon/?fbclid=IwAR1336Zj2VayMJRQ_LaB1aF5cV3ygXnpgiflB7J8c2JPefQ4oiFpRK64AkM
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The response from FOC re the request for a bar fishing only on the Fraser River.
August 28, 2020
Dear Rod:
Re: Recreational Fishery in Lower Fraser River
Thank you for your letter on August 23rd seeking a Chinook directed recreational
demonstration fishery in the Lower Fraser River.
I understand that a request for this type of demonstration fishery was raised with Fraser
and Interior staff earlier this year, however a number of concerns remain with this
proposal, including serious in-season conservation concerns for Fraser River Sockeye and
an expectation that First Nations FSC obligations for Chinook and Sockeye harvest will
not be met. As a result, we are not in a position to provide for a Chinook directed
recreational fishery in the Fraser main stem at this time. The Department’s current
thoughts on your proposal are outlined below:
We understand you are looking to promote this a test fishery using the “Bar
fishing” method but at this time the Department does not have the regulatory tools
to restrict the method of fishing to limit impacts on Sockeye stocks of
concern. Specifically, we do not currently have the ability to limit leader length
and other gear.
As you note in your letter most of the Fraser Summer 5-2 stocks of concern will
be through the river by early September. However, as outlined in the 2020 Fraser
Chinook management actions consultations this spring, the Department also has
concerns for Harrison Fall 4-1 Chinook which are not expected to meet spawning
requirements. This stock has only met its escapement goal once since 2012 and is
not expected to do so in 2020 based on the pre-season abundance forecast. Failure
to meet this escapement goal has implications on Canada’s obligations under the
Pacific Salmon treaty (PST). In the September time frame, there is a steady
decline in the amount of Summer 4-1 fish in the lower Fraser system, whereas the
Harrison Fall 4-1 fish steadily build in abundance and eventually dominate the
Chinook population in river.
We also need to consider Fraser that Sockeye returns are shaping up to be the
lowest on record with the in-season run size for the Late Run component
currently at 6100 fish total. The Department needs to consider all potential
impacts on these fish very seriously, including release mortalities.
2
After conservation and consistent with salmon allocation priorities and the
constitutional right to fish for Food, Social and Ceremonial (FSC) purposes, the
Department is providing First Nations with FSC harvest opportunities for
Chinook. However, First Nation FSC fisheries directed on the more abundant
Summer 4-1 Chinook have also been severely restricted by other Fraser Chinook
stocks of concern as well as the need to minimize Sockeye impacts. As a result,
we do not expect that FSC needs will be met in the Fraser River so recreational
and commercial fisheries are not being planned consistent with allocation
priorities.
The proposed fishery also overlaps in time and area with the Interior Fraser Coho
window closure period, and would be expected to result in some impacts on this
stock of concern.
Departmental staff will work with the SFAB process to support further discussion of this
type of proposal this fall to allow for a thorough review and consultation before the 2021
season. Please feel free to contact Dean Allan if you would like to discuss this matter
further.
Yours sincerely,
Dean Allan
A/ Area Director, Fraser and Interior Area
Pacific Region
cc:
Greg Hornby, Resource Manager
Jeff Grout, Salmon Resource Manager
Rebecca Reid, Regional Director General
Sarah Murdoch, A/Regional Director General
Terri Bonnet, Area Director, Fraser and Interior
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If First Nations catch Interior coho do they release them dead or alive? Or just report that they caught and killed etc.
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two have been reported below Sawmill so far:
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CohoKeptCatch.html
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The response from FOC re the request for a bar fishing only on the Fraser River.
August 28, 2020
Dear Rod:
Re: Recreational Fishery in Lower Fraser River
Thank you for your letter on August 23rd seeking a Chinook directed recreational
demonstration fishery in the Lower Fraser River.
I understand that a request for this type of demonstration fishery was raised with Fraser
and Interior staff earlier this year, however a number of concerns remain with this
proposal, including serious in-season conservation concerns for Fraser River Sockeye and
an expectation that First Nations FSC obligations for Chinook and Sockeye harvest will
not be met. As a result, we are not in a position to provide for a Chinook directed
recreational fishery in the Fraser main stem at this time. The Department’s current
thoughts on your proposal are outlined below:
We understand you are looking to promote this a test fishery using the “Bar
fishing” method but at this time the Department does not have the regulatory tools
to restrict the method of fishing to limit impacts on Sockeye stocks of
concern. Specifically, we do not currently have the ability to limit leader length
and other gear.
As you note in your letter most of the Fraser Summer 5-2 stocks of concern will
be through the river by early September. However, as outlined in the 2020 Fraser
Chinook management actions consultations this spring, the Department also has
concerns for Harrison Fall 4-1 Chinook which are not expected to meet spawning
requirements. This stock has only met its escapement goal once since 2012 and is
not expected to do so in 2020 based on the pre-season abundance forecast. Failure
to meet this escapement goal has implications on Canada’s obligations under the
Pacific Salmon treaty (PST). In the September time frame, there is a steady
decline in the amount of Summer 4-1 fish in the lower Fraser system, whereas the
Harrison Fall 4-1 fish steadily build in abundance and eventually dominate the
Chinook population in river.
We also need to consider Fraser that Sockeye returns are shaping up to be the
lowest on record with the in-season run size for the Late Run component
currently at 6100 fish total. The Department needs to consider all potential
impacts on these fish very seriously, including release mortalities.
2
After conservation and consistent with salmon allocation priorities and the
constitutional right to fish for Food, Social and Ceremonial (FSC) purposes, the
Department is providing First Nations with FSC harvest opportunities for
Chinook. However, First Nation FSC fisheries directed on the more abundant
Summer 4-1 Chinook have also been severely restricted by other Fraser Chinook
stocks of concern as well as the need to minimize Sockeye impacts. As a result,
we do not expect that FSC needs will be met in the Fraser River so recreational
and commercial fisheries are not being planned consistent with allocation
priorities.
The proposed fishery also overlaps in time and area with the Interior Fraser Coho
window closure period, and would be expected to result in some impacts on this
stock of concern.
Departmental staff will work with the SFAB process to support further discussion of this
type of proposal this fall to allow for a thorough review and consultation before the 2021
season. Please feel free to contact Dean Allan if you would like to discuss this matter
further.
Yours sincerely,
Dean Allan
A/ Area Director, Fraser and Interior Area
Pacific Region
cc:
Greg Hornby, Resource Manager
Jeff Grout, Salmon Resource Manager
Rebecca Reid, Regional Director General
Sarah Murdoch, A/Regional Director General
Terri Bonnet, Area Director, Fraser and Interior
They could have saved a lot of ink and BS by replying with just two words.
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Sure, but there was no chance of this being approved from the start.
No fish = no fishing.
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Must be some fish if all them nets are out there.
Just no fish for us.
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I bet the Fraser will never open for sport fishing salmon again.
DFO will always have some sort of excuse/issue with stocks of concern involved.
Toss in the constitutionally FSC rights and there will not ever be enough salmon to fulfill the requirements.
It’s over, change the constitution or get used to it.
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there is actually an amount as in weight of fish (it's done per capita) that's allocated to FSC. Returns above that are potentially available for sport of commercial harvest. There was a pink salmon fishery last year. There was a C&R fishery in 2017. I can't think of a year where there wasn't excepting the closure when sport anglers couldn't identify pinks and coho. Everyone wanted a complete closure to protect IFS and now some folks complain when there is one. It's likely the current FSC red spring harvest of South Thompson stock will shut down in a couple of weeks as that run ends and Harrison springs start to show.
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there is actually an amount as in weight of fish (it's done per capita) that's allocated to FSC.
Do you know the amount or where to look for it?
Seems like a good starting point for a discussion on what is required.
I wonder just how much fish can a person eat everyday for a full year?
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Just a thought' if I can troll for salmon at the Sandheads, why can't I just cast a spoon or bar fish with a spin and glow in the Fraser for salmon?
Maybe I just don't see the big picture.
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Just a thought' if I can troll for salmon at the Sandheads, why can't I just cast a spoon or bar fish with a spin and glow in the Fraser for salmon?
Maybe I just don't see the big picture.
Because you can selectively target chinooks at sandheads and everyone will, meanwhile there will be those that target chinooks by flossing in river and by doing so not selectively fish.
There is no gear regulations to make the river bar fishing only and the gear regulations are controlled by the province not the federal government that manages salmon only in freshwater.
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HOSTED BY THE FRASER VALLEY SALMON SOCIETY
Urgent all Fraser River Anglers its time to be heard !
Please be advised that on Wednesday September 9th A demonstration bar fishery will take place. Registration will be at Island 22 at 7:30 am. This demonstration bar fishery will take place on several locations in the Chilliwack area. This event will be monitored and documented to gather more data on this selective method of fishing. See you on the 9th !!!
Please share to all your friends we need as many people and boats as possible to make this successful , I cannot stress how close we are to losing our rights on the river and we need to take a stand.
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I've been fishing for Chinook the past two days from my boat. Just looks like I'm sturgeon fishing. ;) and yes. The fishing has been solid.
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HOSTED BY THE FRASER VALLEY SALMON SOCIETY
Urgent all Fraser River Anglers its time to be heard !
Please be advised that on Wednesday September 9th A demonstration bar fishery will take place. Registration will be at Island 22 at 7:30 am. This demonstration bar fishery will take place on several locations in the Chilliwack area. This event will be monitored and documented to gather more data on this selective method of fishing. See you on the 9th !!!
Please share to all your friends we need as many people and boats as possible to make this successful , I cannot stress how close we are to losing our rights on the river and we need to take a stand.
What are the ground rules? Bait allowed? It would be a shame for a protest intended to demonstrate how selective bar fishing can be to result in the landing of interior steelhead or coho.
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Mostly that's done with lures such as spin'n'glos. From what I heard the guys who have done this for decades say few coho are caught this way. Roe would be a different story. I have also seen coho caught off the bars with spinners and spoons. Coho are now showing up in the Whonnock and Albion test fisheries. One steelhead counted as well. Steelhead certainly were caught in numbers back when the river was open & the runs were in decent numbers.
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Why is this being done on a week day? Surely a larger turnout would turn up on a weekend.
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Maybe its on a weekday so there are less "weekend warrior" types who may come out and display methods contrary to the intent of the demonstration?
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Why is this being done on a week day? Surely a larger turnout would turn up on a weekend.
They have been giving First Nations last arge scale drift net openings Saturday and Sunday. Perhaps it’s to avoid confrontation.
Also my guess is this will be largely attended by industry and they probably don’t want to give up their weekend charters
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They have been giving First Nations last arge scale drift net openings Saturday and Sunday. Perhaps it’s to avoid confrontation.
Also my guess is this will be largely attended by industry and they probably don’t want to give up their weekend charters
Makes sense, thanks.
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I hope thats not the real reason to hold it on a wednesday.
They dont want to give up a days charters but expect everyone else to take a day off work?
Poor planning if you ask me.
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I filmed this this morning. We did it in one take, apologies if we missed anything that should be added. Some people that wished to take part said it should have been on the weekend but the people that organized this due to commitments had to have it on the this date I have been told. If you wanted to attend you can always support the numerous groups involved. Here is what I filmed this morning. A lot of work by many goes in putting this together. I can not attend tomorrow either due to a commitment made before this date was set but I doing my best to give some notice to what is going on. Remember all those involved are volunteers doing the best they can and one can not always satisfy everyone. I guess those that would like it on the weekend could plan one then.
https://youtu.be/HnbBivnoffI
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If anyone wants to join the Demonstration Fishery tomorrow morning but doesn’t have a boat. Meet at Island 22 at 7:30am. There will be boats leaving every hour and a phone number to call for pickup - 604-720-4498.
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Great post Chris.
A HUGE Thank You to you and all who have been working tirelessly for years behind the scenes to investigate, negotiate , inform and represent the interests of BC sport fishers.
Oh ya and for the burlap bag too , kept, those jacks nice and cool.
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Great post Chris.
A HUGE Thank You to you and all who have been working tirelessly for years behind the scenes to investigate, negotiate , inform and represent the interests of BC sport fishers.
Oh ya and for the burlap bag too , kept, those jacks nice and cool.
You are welcome and thanks for your support on several issues. Hope to see you
soon.
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https://www.theprogress.com/news/demonstration-fishery-on-the-fraser-river-going-ahead-without-dfo-approval/
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Catch anything?
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no updates on this?
weird.
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It's posted on some of the Facebook pages that DFO attended and ticketed 6 people and 4 sets of gear (rod, reel etc) were confiscated. Some people didn't even have licenses?
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No licences? :o
Not exactly the kind of people you want at this sort of thing.
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So when do you think DFO will finally open the Fraser for salmon? Coho bar fishing season will be over soon.
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Fished Sandheads on Thursday.. About a dozen boats out , never saw a net raised.
Guess they could open the Fraser any time now.
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Huh? The information is very clear that no salmon fishing openings are expected in the Fraser River for all of October as part of the IFS management measures, for this year and many many years to come.
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Did you troll for Coho, or Chum?
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Huh? The information is very clear that no salmon fishing openings are expected in the Fraser River for all of October as part of the IFS management measures, for this year and many many years to come.
Lots of guys fishing the two bits bar in Langley counted over 30 cars parks all along the river road on the weekend
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unlike the Fraser above the Mission Boundary there seems to be no general closure on trout and char in the tidal section. Sturgeon can also be fished from shore.
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unlike the Fraser above the Mission Boundary there seems to be no general closure on trout and char in the tidal section. Sturgeon can also be fished from shore.
Yeah, I was thinking about fishing it but honestly if i caught a clipped coho id probably just put it in my back pack and leave. So I best just stay away lol
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We used anchovy and flashflies. No strikes. From this, and our previous time out not a hint of any fish about.
Appears to be pretty dismal outlook for the Fraser. IMHU.
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So Rod, will it be the same as last year. November the fraser opens in lower for coho. Last years run produced nothing for me, but years past first two weeks of November can still be quite good. Thoughts? And I do have my tidal licence and tag already.
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So Rod, will it be the same as last year. November the fraser opens in lower for coho. Last years run produced nothing for me, but years past first two weeks of November can still be quite good. Thoughts? And I do have my tidal licence and tag already.
I was able to get some clarification after pushing for this in the past three weeks. An opening for hatchery coho salmon retention and bait ban lifted is expected to happen on Nov 2nd, the fishery notice should be available the end of this week or early next week (in-season chum salmon estimate is being released on Oct 16th so the notice will be put together after that).
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Thanks Rod, I will be giving it a try in November for sure :).
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Can't say about these days but back when I regularly did fish the bars we found it profitable in November to switch to bars around Langley once the fishing in some of the Lower Valley streams had dropped off considerably. This often got us an extra couple of weekends of fair to good fishing.
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I was able to get some clarification after pushing for this in the past three weeks. An opening for hatchery coho salmon retention and bait ban lifted is expected to happen on Nov 2nd, the fishery notice should be available the end of this week or early next week (in-season chum salmon estimate is being released on Oct 16th so the notice will be put together after that).
Hi Rod,
Is the Hatchery Coho retention on the Fraser still Happening Rodney?
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The notice is not out yet, which is annoying me a bit because I was told that it would have been out last week after the last chum salmon assessment was completed. I am sending an email reminder out today.
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Thanks again Rod, I've been waiting for that notice also.
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The notice is not out yet, which is annoying me a bit because I was told that it would have been out last week after the last chum salmon assessment was completed. I am sending an email reminder out today.
Thanks for following up Rod. They finally Opened the Fraser with this Notice:
Category(s):
RECREATIONAL - Salmon
Subject:
FN1183-RECREATIONAL - Salmon - Chum and Coho - Area 29 - Tidal Waters of the Fraser River - Fishing Opportunities
Waters: Tidal waters of the Fraser River (Downstream edge of the CPR Bridge at Mission to the mouth)
Management measures:
Effective November 2 until December 31, 2020:
- The daily limit for Chum salmon is four (4).
- The daily limit for Coho salmon is two (2) hatchery marked only.
- You may not retain Chinook, wild Coho, Sockeye or Pink salmon.
Daily Limits: The daily limit for all species of Pacific salmon from tidal and fresh waters combined is four (4). Individual species limits also apply.
In the tidal Fraser River, fishing for salmon is only permitted from one hour before sunrise to one after sunset each day.
Variation Order numbers: 2020-RFQ-609, 2020-RFQ-610, 2020-RCT-612
Notes:
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Cann't they open one more day in advance that the weekend angler can enjoy before too late?
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So thought I would give bar fishing a go today. Headed to Glen Valley. Only two other guys fishing. Not a single coho. 5 sturgeon hook ups. 2 landed. 1 Chubb, 1 pike minnow. Lots of nets in the water. Not like it used to be. Also fresh chum roe used. Maybe next time.
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Commercial fishermen can retain hatchery coho and so can First Nations. First Nations have been fishing the last two weeks non stop
And the commercial guys all this week.
Getting a Marked coho now will not be easy
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Nothing but Sculpins for us a couple of days in the North Arm during the outgoing tide. Anybody catching any Fraser coho?
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Why do you think the DFO opened it in November ?
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Why do you think the DFO opened it in November ?
because it was closed in October. The big chum "cleanup" normally happened in the last week of October.
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Tried my luck again today. 4 sturgeon on, only 2 landed. This is a bar I have fished for years and has always produced coho's. Not this year, not last year. Not even a jack. This reminds me of about 15years ago fishing Duncan bar. That year it was several small sturgeon and no coho. Maybe I have to give it up until they open it again in October. Although, I might be dead by then
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Why do you think the DFO opened it in November ?
I am sure there are still fish moving through. With numbers much lower in November, just have to win the lottery and get a biting salmonoid ;D
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What is the water visibility in the Tidal Fraser right now?
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Rod, yesterday water was high with all that rain. Vis was a few inches. Pretty brown looking. Glen valley which I know you are familar with, very little shore line to fish. Water will improve over weekend.
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Crossed both the Port Mann and Golden Ears this am and within the last hour. Few gill net boats out this morning and virtually none this afternoon.
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The albion test net report shows the run is diminishing.
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What about sloughs and side channels of the Non tidal section of the Fraser? Are those only associated with hatchery systems opened.
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What about sloughs and side channels of the Non tidal section of the Fraser? Are those only associated with hatchery systems opened.
side channels & back waters should all be open for coho and chum salmon. Sloughs will be closed to salmon fishing if they are no listed in the BC Sport Fishing Guide for Region 2 - that basically leaves Nicomen. The Fraser above the Mission CPR Bridge remains closed to trout fishing until Nov 16th
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How do distinguish you a slough from a backwater or side channel? Other than being called slough. Not being a moron here, just wondering.I fly fish for coho a lot and often catch late ones in cutty spots, just wondering what constitutes slough versus back waters
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How do distinguish you a slough from a backwater or side channel? Other than being called slough. Not being a intelligent and respectable human being here, just wondering.I fly fish for coho a lot and often catch late ones in cutty spots, just wondering what constitutes slough versus back waters
You ask good questions for an intelligent and respectable human!
If I understand your question properly...some sloughs (ie Cattermole and Greyell) are actually side channels of the Fraser and have Fraser river water flowing through them ( if not now, then in periods of high water) and are currently open for fishing for coho.
Other sloughs (ie Maria or Pumphouse/Mountain) are not a side channel of the Fraser and are actually tributaries of the Fraser. They are called sloughs because they will back up during freshet. If a slough is a tributary of the Fraser and it is not named in the regulations, then it is closed to fishing for coho.
Some sloughs are named in the regs (ie Hope) and are closed and others are named (ie Nicomen) and are open.
Rather than wonder if it is a slough, backwater or side channel, recommend asking yourself, is this part of the Fraser River, or is it a tributary? If it’s the Fraser, it’s open. If it’s a tributary, is it named in the regs as open to fishing? If not named, it’s closed.
Or has that made matters more confusing? 😀
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Thanks Clarki
I read my post...auto correct plus tired really made it nonsensical. I am glad you figured out what I was getting at.