Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chum Slayer on November 28, 2023, 09:08:18 PM
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So with the season upon us, what is the earliest you have caught a steelhead on the Vedder River? I personally have already heard some rumors of fish and one confirmed wild/extremely large resident rainbow.
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Earliest I have landed a Vedder steelhead is Dec 1, about 50 years ago. I have hooked and lost a very few in November and the earliest I have seen a winter run caught in the Vedder is Oct 12
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earliest i have caught a steelhead on the vedder is dec 22 2012. caught 2 that day and a small bull trout. all on coho roe in the same run. both does, 1 hatch which was all you were aloud to retain then. thought i hooked a steelhead once in early december only to find out it was chrome chum.
i find as time goes on my starts for the season start later but last longer into the spring on other flows since the regulation changes. now i start venturing out half way into january because of the low early returning fish and fish till mid april.
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I wonder why there is fewer early run fish, I was talking to an old timer and he remembers when you could consistently get action by the last two weeks of December.
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Different system but still Fraser Valley ...Dec 12
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I wonder why there is fewer early run fish, I was talking to an old timer and he remembers when you could consistently get action by the last two weeks of December.
One of the reasons is early run fish are targeted by the Chilliwack hatchery for the steelhead broodstock program. Annually, since the programs inception, up to 80 early spawning fish have been removed from the spawning population.
The decline in early run Vedder steelhead has been well documented on these pages.
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just to confirm, were talking winter steelhead.
i have caught steelhead in other flows in both november and early december, they just were not winters.
here is a fish that was caught early november on a local flow.
(https://i.imgur.com/Hq3riXc.jpg)
wish the fish porn page could be resurrected. miss it.
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......dec 18....
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One of the reasons is early run fish are targeted by the Chilliwack hatchery for the steelhead broodstock program. Annually, since the programs inception, up to 80 early spawning fish have been removed from the spawning population.
The decline in early run Vedder steelhead has been well documented on these pages.
Hey Dave, didn't the Chilliwack oldtimers deplete the early runs before the hatchery program started? I recall seeing old Boxing Day Derby photos of 20 or 30 dead fish and lots of anglers probably killed at least their first couple or few fish every season back in the 3 and 2 fish limits.
But seriously, the hatchery program is probably gradually eroding diversity of the population so that the majority of fish will return over an ever-shrinking time period. i would be the first to raise my hand for ending the program for the sake of wild steelhead conservation in the Chilliwack/Vedder and neighbouring streams.
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Well it's long been recognized that the longer adult steelhead (and salmon) are in stream the more they are exposed to in stream hazards not the least of which is anglers. Yet do we know that the early fish are a distinct breeding population? If they aren't the genes that times an early return must still be in the population but simply are not dominant.
FWIW My earliest winter run... it was an ocean bright fish caught in the later part of November while fishing for trout. Based on an archived letter the stream (not the V/C) produced good catches of steelhead in November and December then again in February. My experience these days is though a smattering of fish show in December, it's mostly a February return with some dribbling in through March into April. Hatcheries aside it could be that steelhead are far more plastic and adaptable in some respects (like timing of returns) than we give them credit for.
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Hey Dave, didn't the Chilliwack oldtimers deplete the early runs before the hatchery program started? I recall seeing old Boxing Day Derby photos of 20 or 30 dead fish and lots of anglers probably killed at least their first couple or few fish every season back in the 3 and 2 fish limits.
You're correct Mike, we did kill a lot of fish back then, and for sure, anglers were a huge part of this problem.
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would a regulation change protecting early run fish be an option? kind of like the closure in april above tamihi, or is it to late?
i get the arguments against hatchery production but lets look at real world results. every water shed in the fraser basin without a hatchery has little to no winter steelhead. the vedder is really the last strong hold for winters in the southern end of the province. even the skeena is having lower returns and they have no hatchery supplement. as much as i see the demise of genetic diversity with hatcheries, the thompson, chilcotin, coquihalla, nahatlatch just to name a few might be in alot better shape. how much genetic diversity are you getting when less than 100 fish show up through out a 4 month period.
my point is we might be past a time where winter steelhead can make it on their own. a hatchery steelhead is better then no steelhead. hopefully im wrong and its just a bump in the road.
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would a regulation change protecting early run fish be an option? kind of like the closure in april above tamihi, or is it to late?
that's been in place for a couple of years now:
No Fishing downstream of a line between two fishing boundary signs on either side of the Chilliwack River 100m downstream of the
confluence of the Chilliwack River and Slesse Creek to Tamihi Rapids Bridge, Apr 1-June 30
[/quote]
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that's been in place for a couple of years now:
i know it has, im talking about one potentially in december or possible january. is there a real point for 300-400 boxing day derby anglers to be targeting maybe 4 hatchery and 10ish wild fish. i know the intentions are good but puts a lot of pressure on the vary fish that are struggling. back when this derby started is was a different story.
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i know it has, im talking about one potentially in december or possible january. is there a real point for 300-400 boxing day derby anglers to be targeting maybe 4 hatchery and 10ish wild fish. i know the intentions are good but puts a lot of pressure on the vary fish that are struggling. back when this derby started is was a different story.
oh sorry...the downside is that would load more anglers downstream of Tamihi. Another possibility is just can the Boxing Day Derby & move it to Family Day in Feb when half of BC residents are in Mexico.
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oh sorry...the downside is that would load more anglers downstream of Tamihi. Another possibility is just can the Boxing Day Derby & move it to Family Day in Feb when half of BC residents are in Mexico.
can always change the boundaries. not a bad idea for family day.
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fly fishing only regs with a beat rotation lottery system on the upper..... also a limit on which type of lines you may use with a catch and release limit of 2 per day might be a solution.
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fly fishing only regs with a beat rotation lottery system on the upper..... also a limit on which type of lines you may use with a catch and release limit of 2 per day might be a solution.
You ever done much fly fishing for steelhead? Not too much good water for that above Tamihi. A rotational system, fly or artificial only may work but who is going to enforce it... particularly the rotation? Most people here don't understand it.
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I have fly-fished for steelhead and have been very successful at it Ralph. We could use this form of management by using an app that tracks anglers' movement while on the river and assigns beats for that day. It has been done in the UK, Ireland, Norway, Sweden, France and in Quebec for salmon rivers so why wouldn't it work in BC? Also on tracking anglers on the river, most phones have a live tracking feature that could be utilized with the app's software so CO's could know how many anglers are legally fishing. Finally, a fly fishing-only reg on the upper is perfect as it would have the least amount of impact on the fish. Another thing to mention around enforcement is extreme punishments and fines, we don't need more COs what we need is harsh punishment of poachers and rule breakers like they do in the UK, Norway and Sweden.
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I saw one caught Dec. 4th last year.
Myself, think it was Jan. 9th.
From the scuttlebutt that I hear, the boxing day derby will not have a sponsor this year or the future.
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My earliest winter run was December 18th back in 2010.
I remember that year hearing a few reports of steelhead being caught over the previous week or so leading up. First day back on the river after taking a pause after salmon season had tailed off. I had put in a full day and many km from top to bottom fishing and scouting. Last run of the day, just before dark and making my last couple casts before calling it, a nice 9lb bullet chrome hatch doe decided to grab on and kick off the season right.
I usually don't start searching too much until close to christmas or so but i remember that year had a decent push of fish early with many positive December reports. That being said, it seems lately a december steelhead has become increasingly rarer with reports of anglers first of the season not coming until later on.
From the scuttlebutt that I hear, the boxing day derby will not have a sponsor this year or the future.
Looks like Fred's Tackle will be continuing on the tradition for at least 2023
https://shopfreds.ca/boxing-day-derby.html (https://shopfreds.ca/boxing-day-derby.html)
I used to enjoy running into a bunch of familiar faces from the river and talking about the start of the season at the derby weigh in and wrap up festivities at the Fish & Game clubhouse. It often felt like the official kick off to the season but credit goes to keeping it going and raising more funds than ever that go directly back to the river
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I have fly-fished for steelhead and have been very successful at it Ralph. We could use this form of management by using an app that tracks anglers' movement while on the river and assigns beats for that day. It has been done in the UK, Ireland, Norway, Sweden, France and in Quebec for salmon rivers so why wouldn't it work in BC? Also on tracking anglers on the river, most phones have a live tracking feature that could be utilized with the app's software so CO's could know how many anglers are legally fishing. Finally, a fly fishing-only reg on the upper is perfect as it would have the least amount of impact on the fish. Another thing to mention around enforcement is extreme punishments and fines, we don't need more COs what we need is harsh punishment of poachers and rule breakers like they do in the UK, Norway and Sweden.
The beat/rotation system is nothing new and limited access pay per trip fishing on selected waters has been suggested a couple of times most publicly in a study and report by Dr Peter Pearse at UBC. There was also a PHD Thesis submitted at SFU that looked at the same questions and suggested pay for access & limits on # of anglers per day. It has been generally as welcome in BC as the proverbial turd in the hot tub. Few anglers want it. In Europe almost all the Salmon and Sea trout streams are either privately held or are managed by local fishery councils and clubs. It's a pay for access system that has it's roots in medieval times and it ain't cheap. Nova Scotia has public access though not a lot of salmon fishing left. Rotational fishing is a custom and it's policed by anglers. The rest of the Provinces have other controls such as pay for access (Quebec) and non-residents must hire a guide. Otherwise some easy access streams in NFLD for example are almost as busy with residents than here. Ditto with Scotland and Ireland. Easy access or public waters are crowded.
If you don't like the crowds and the behavior on the V/C go somewhere else or drive to Merritt and fish the lakes. They are often empty of anglers in the fall and the fishing can be better in the spring.
As for apps, I was not aware of this. What are the names of some of the apps that do this? The tech is easy as all smartphones have a GPS locator. However it's easy to defeat - just turn off the GPS or the phone. Poaching is still a problem with Atlantic fisheries as well.
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I started fishing steelhead on the Chilliwack river in 1982. Long before the internet, fishing forums, social media. A friend of mine took me out to show me the ropes. It was December 15 th 1982. Never forget that day as my buddy landed a beautiful hatchery doe around 12 pounds. I landed my first steelhead later that winter, a wild 10 pound buck which I released. I have only caught a few December fish in the forty years I have been steelheading on the Chilliwack river. Have caught many December fish on the Stamp river back in the day. I don’t start fishing the Vedder these days until mid January as the early run seems to have disappeared. Cheers.
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Any sort of rotation or draw system is a stupid idea.
Fly-fishing only...even if limited to one area is a stupid idea.
Closing of certain parts of the river at certain times of the year is a stupid idea. I'm already choked they closed the upper during April. That was my peace and quiet time with a lot of success.
It's a hatchery enhanced river that has been able to handle the pressure for years.
We live in an area where there is almost no where else to fish for steelhead.
Don't give those in charge any stupid ideas. If they think the sporties are on board with ANY closure....I promise they will oblige.
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So Bob, lets hear your ideas.
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So Bob, lets hear your ideas.
If it was NEEDED, I would totally be on board with complete catch and release above Tamihi Bridge for steelhead.
The beaks can have their bonking hatchery fish on the majority of the river and I can have the upper river for success and peace and quiet....especially from Feb to April. I don't need to bonk a steelhead to be a happy. I'd rather catch and release a half dozen fish a trip away from the crowds.
There is no doubt that a catch and release stipulation would keep the majority of the beaks out of the upper river.
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The closure above Tamihi was put in place to protect spawning steelhead from people like you.
Catching and releasing “half a dozen fish a trip” that are staging or spawning is nothing to be proud of and shows much of what you are about.
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The closure above Tamihi was put in place to protect spawning steelhead from people like you.
Catching and releasing “half a dozen fish a trip” that are staging or spawning is nothing to be proud of and shows much of what you are about.
Some of us know how to be gentle with our fish. Hundreds upon hundreds of wild coho were dragged up the banks and onto the rocks and sand this year.
My fish never leave the water.
And besides....most fish I catch in April are still in very nice shape....many of them are chromers.
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Catch and release mortality is still a factor, it is the same as targeting brown trout on their redds. Sure it may be enjoyable to some but it only damages the resources for future generations. Also what enjoyment is there in catching wild spawning/kelt steelhead? how is that sport it is equivalent to shooting a mule deer with its fawn during the spring or a bear with its cubs.
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one month out of the Feb-Apr period is lost, big deal. No one has any kind of personal right to the river beak or self appointed expert or otherwise.
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Catch and release mortality is still a factor, it is the same as targeting brown trout on their redds. Sure it may be enjoyable to some but it only damages the resources for future generations. Also what enjoyment is there in catching wild spawning/kelt steelhead? how is that sport it is equivalent to shooting a mule deer with its fawn during the spring or a bear with its cubs.
I don't actually remember the last time I caught a kelt and I fished the upper a lot in late season. Even fish that would be classed as spawners....very very low percentage.....
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one month out of the Feb-Apr period is lost, big deal. No one has any kind of personal right to the river beak or self appointed expert or otherwise.
Of course 1 month of lost fishing isn't a big deal to you Ralph.
They could ban sportfishing entirely and you wouldn't care. You'd probably be happy with the decision.
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Of course 1 month of lost fishing isn't a big deal to you Ralph.
They could ban sportfishing entirely and you wouldn't care. You'd probably be happy with the decision.
you talk like you believe you have a right to catch the last steelhead, hatchery or otherwise.
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you talk like you believe you have a right to catch the last steelhead, hatchery or otherwise.
It's called entitlement and Bob has a gut full.
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Leave it the way it is. Only new rule I would support is a ban on removing wild fish from the water to stop losers like the kasnaggers from dragging them up the beach.
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So Dave or anyone else who may be able to answer, has the brood stock collection switched away from the early season fish?
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So Dave or anyone else who may be able to answer, has the brood stock collection switched away from the early season fish?
The hatchery takes pretty much what it gets nowadays. I believe collection starts in January, obviously catching early run fish, and goes until the desired numbers are retained. The problem is the fish have to be spawned early enough to get to size in one year, making late run fish a non starter. Add in the fact steelhead are simply extra work and another expense for DFO and you understand they are low on the priority list.
I would like to see the FWFSBC take a much more active role in Chilliwack River steelhead management; initiate spawning surveys, reactivate the fertilization program, do eyed egg plants in strategic up river sites, etc. And start damn soon while there are still a few wild fish left.
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What is the Actual steelhead run size? I have heard it is about 3500 to 5000 fish in total. But I have looked at some other websites and older news articles and they say the river gets about 10,000 to 15,000 steelhead a year.
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the last official estimates were issued about 20 years ago and I think it was 4,000. Numbers these days are possibly lower than that. Estimates for many years before was up towards the numbers you read but I think those were rough estimates and not based on actual swim counts and other info.
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Collection starts Jan 15. For the last 3 years the target has been reduced to 30 pairs. In my personal experience the early wilds (Pre January 15th arrivals) are fast movers and reach the upper reaches rather quickly. While later arrivals migrate much slower with the latest run fish utilizing the lower river for very long periods of time. In my opinion the only true early stock fish being taken for brood would be the odd fish captured by hatchery staff above the boundary. But there hasn’t been nearly as many taken from up there the last half a decade which is a step in the right direction.
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It's called entitlement and Bob has a gut full.
Some will never get you can't keep catching the same ones over and over and over and over.
Atlantic salmon studies have shown that multiple recaptures lead to less success spawning but if one can go to the upper river where fish are holding and waiting for the magic moment to spawn and pound them into the ground it's all that matters.
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this may have already been posted somewhere on here.
Locations and timing of spawning steelhead in the Chilliwack river.
One will quickly clue in why the closure from Tamihi up is a good thing.
https://a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/acat/documents/r7003/ChilliwackSteelhead_Nelsonetal2004_1147453320035_f5d6b7c48e5149a085e3a9784657fed0.pdf
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I would love to see this study done again as the habitat in the chilliwack has changed greatly in that time and it would be beneficial to see what sections of river most of the spawning fish now utilize
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this may have already been posted somewhere on here.
Locations and timing of spawning steelhead in the Chilliwack river.
One will quickly clue in why the closure from Tamihi up is a good thing.
https://a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/acat/documents/r7003/ChilliwackSteelhead_Nelsonetal2004_1147453320035_f5d6b7c48e5149a085e3a9784657fed0.pdf
Thanks for posting this! This document is considered the bible for Chilliwack/Vedder steelhead information and is invaluable in that regard. I suspect, 20 years later, there are changes in steelhead migration and distribution and would love to see a similar study to see if that's correct.
Considering the amount of people that fish steelhead on this system it really is time to invest some time, people and money to manage these fish properly. As Joni said, you don't know what you've got till it's gone.
Edit: AA beat me to it
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I would love to see this study done again as the habitat in the chilliwack has changed greatly in that time and it would be beneficial to see what sections of river most of the spawning fish now utilize
I agree - time to review that study.
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I don't actually remember the last time I caught a kelt and I fished the upper a lot in late season. Even fish that would be classed as spawners....very very low percentage.....
I agree with with everything you are saying here, Bobby and support the reasons for your comments.
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the last official estimates were issued about 20 years ago and I think it was 4,000. Numbers these days are possibly lower than that. Estimates for many years before was up towards the numbers you read but I think those were rough estimates and not based on actual swim counts and other info.
LOL There is alot of "I think, possibly lower, rough estimate" in this post... Would it not be better to just say you don't have any idea of the numbers.
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LOL There is alot of "I think, possibly lower, rough estimate" in this post... Would it not be better to just say you don't have any idea of the numbers.
oh no doubt given how you quote what I said out of context. However it was in response to:
What is the Actual steelhead run size? I have heard it is about 3500 to 5000 fish in total. But I have looked at some other websites and older news articles and they say the river gets about 10,000 to 15,000 steelhead a year.
So do you think there are more or less steelhead returning to the river than in 2000 or in 1975 which is IIRC when the higher estimates in his question applied?
Just wondering...
However one can also consult actual in river counts or you could put your wet suit on and try it yourself.
https://a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/acat/documents/r1568/ChilliwackAdultReport2000_ARL337-4__1097005167990_1ab3ba1501854265bfe6a6d51be175e5.pdf
there was also this study from the 80s where the adult returns were based on steelhead fry density. The estimate was 11,000 adults.
https://a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/eirs/finishDownloadDocument.do;jsessionid=2B5AE624E8FDA07DA8CF63CE9AB76AA0?subdocumentId=6981
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I’m skeptical about the effectiveness of snorkel counts in rivers like the C/V. I also can’t even imagine how ridiculous fishing would be with a return of 11k
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Earliest I caught was back early 90's only first and last time I enter Boxing Derby. Fishing buddy and I fished mid section and I caught hatchery steelhead about 9-10 lbs. Took to Chilliwack Gun and Game club for weight in. I looked at weight broad and there were 6 steelie weight in and my was smallest one so I didn't bother to weight it. Took home instead. Since then most my early steelheads were caught in January.
Steelhead fishing was incredible back in the 80's, 90's and early 2000's in Chilliwack/ Vedder river. Be lucky now if I catch 10 steelhead a season.
Silex-user
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Earliest I caught was back early 90's only first and last time I enter Boxing Derby. Fishing buddy and I fished mid section and I caught hatchery steelhead about 9-10 lbs. Took to Chilliwack Gun and Game club for weight in. I looked at weight broad and there were 6 steelie weight in and my was smallest one so I didn't bother to weight it. Took home instead. Since then most my early steelheads were caught in January.
Steelhead fishing was incredible back in the 80's, 90's and early 2000's in Chilliwack/ Vedder river. Be lucky now if I catch 10 steelhead a season.
Silex-user
Hmmmm? Same scenario for a buddy of mine in the early 90's (94ish) We walked into a very popular run with about 6 guys on it already who all told us one had been taken already from it. Buddy fired out a spin and glo and hooked one with in the first couple casts. we went into the clubhouse and saw enough fish in and around his weight so he took it home instead of it being kept for a future dinner at the club ( at least what's what we thought happened with those fish at that time?)
Earliest Chilliwack fish for me was December 14th. I used to always take a few days off right around that week and have decent success, and by that I mean you could usually find a single fish that week but gain a tonne of information for the up coming season.
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Only a few days before the Boxing Day derby and not one steelhead weighed into Fred’s yet. Maybe not going to be a very good year this year. :(
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So for the Boxing Day Derby only two steelhead weighed in out of 245 entrants. And for the Wally Hall Derby the fish caught seem to be on the small side, ranging from 7 to 10 pounds. If this continues this is a very disturbing trend for Chilliwack/Vedder River steelhead.
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The weigh ins so far have predominantly been does. 2 fish weighed in out of 245 entries is not very good. Low numbers in the river so far. Early run has been declining the last 5 years. I don’t start fishing till middle of January the last few years. With the lack of rain this season so far does not bode well either for the fish. Hoping we get a lot more rain and snow pack in the mountains in the coming months.