Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: chris gadsden on May 20, 2008, 09:58:23 AM
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I took a tour of the Chilliwack River Valley Monday evening to see if the the "tough new measures" mentioned in the article below would actually happen this May Long weekend. The area up to Tamahi looked good but from there up things were near the worse I had ever seen, as the pictures relate. Pictures were taken showing some of the sites including by the washout, "The Cedars" and by Borden Creek where the bears were getting into some of the bagged up garbage. The other pictures were on the Bench Road which was a disaster area with shotgun shell casing every where.
If we are really serious about dealing with this destruction of this area we must have a stronger support from the RCMP and the Province with both providing enough personal to deal with this stain on our environment. Sometimes I think these law enforcement people are stretched too thin to cover areas like this.
Once again, from what I observed today and what was mentioned in this recent newspaper article I have posted below it appeared to have little impact on these thoughtless campers that have no regard for our ONCE beautiful Chilliwack River Valley, shameful.
Rodney may select a few pictures to post that I sent him to show you the mess left behind.
Bracing for a busy weekend
By Jennifer Feinberg - Chilliwack Progress - May 15, 2008
They’re stepping up the pressure in the Chilliwack River Valley just in time.
The crackdown on illegal camping and overnight parking is now a year-round priority, says a coalition of enforcement agencies using Section 58, of the Forest and Range Practices Act.
With the May long weekend in sight, revellers and rowdies heading this way are being sent a strict warning from the Ch-ihl-kway-uhk Tribe, RCMP, conservation and forestry officers, the Fraser Valley Regional District, and local residents.
The coalition of stakeholders came together last spring to protect one of B.C.’s most desirable recreational areas.
Overnight parking and camping on Crown land will no longer be tolerated, and violators will be slapped with a $115 fine. Vehicles will be towed and impounded, they vow, at $100 for a tow and $17/day fee for impounds.
“Last year we saw an incredible amount of life-threatening behaviour and environmental degradation caused by illegal campers,” says Tzeachten Chief Joe Hall. “This area and its residents deserve to be protected from vandals who have no regard for the environment.
“With the Section 58 Order now active year-round, our zero-tolerance policy is now in effect.”
In August alone last year, local authorities patrolled 1,965 km of roadways and trails and recorded 1,290 license plates.
“We expect to be much tougher this year,” says Chief Hall. “Violators will figure out pretty quickly that we’re serious and that it’s a long and expensive ordeal to get back home and recover their vehicles.”
The Fraser Valley Regional District also had a warning for all campers regarding the potential for waters to rise, given the weekend forecast.
“If we experience the high temperatures predicted, people camping close to rivers and streams could see themselves floating or stranded during the rise in water levels,” said Doug Wilson, Manager of Parks for the FVRD. “Although floods are not expected, the Vedder River could look quite different on Sunday than it does today.”
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Disgusting!!!!!
Took a little drive up Harrison West last week, before the long weekend.We went up about 40 km . The total disregard for the whole lake is gross.Not only the logging but how much garbage can one group actually leave at a site. It almost seems like whoever is leaving the camping garbage is also leaving there household crap. This is not isolated but seemed at almost every pull out we hit. The glass , plastic, used propane tanks old sofas..... ??? Who is showing/telling these people that this is OK!
Sorry guys ...MY FIRST RANT.. Ahhhh all better :-[
Anyhow took home a garbage bag full, bad news is could have taken a thousand more.
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(http://www.fishingwithrod.com/albums/cgadsden/080520_1.jpg)
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ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING! >:( What ministry is tasked with the job of monitoring those camping areas? Who ever it is their doing a great job ::)
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it really is sickening,and really saddens me to see this kind of abuse to our land,unfortunately it is just a select few that do this and are ruining it for the people that enjoy and respect the outdoors,but like with most environment issues today there is not enough enforcement to back up all the tough talking people with all the great new laws that are in place in this area,i guess it is just cheaper this way and if it doesn't work we will just close another area down so no one can enjoy the area.without enforcement they may as well barricade chilliwack lake road right at the crossing and make the area fly in only ;) that way the only people that can enjoy these areas are the ones with all the money and are willing to pay to use it.
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people who leave there empty cartridges behind should be shot. when we go out we always make sure we leave the area cleaner than we found it.
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ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING! >:( What ministry is tasked with the job of monitoring those camping areas? Who ever it is their doing a great job ::)
Don't blame the gov, there are actually "campers" who do this! :-[
Unreal! Over on this side of the rockies we get the same sort of thing, with off roaders muddying up the creeks and DUI, guns, garbage. Not sure what you all could do about it, except ban camping out side of campgrounds, wouldn't that be a shame?
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Honestly, how much more effort would it take to carry the garbage out with you ?
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People who do litter are not penalized for it so they don't care. Lazy idiots. Put up a sign that says if you're camped there you will be fined, if you have garbage even TOUCHING the ground you'll be fined, and hit them with the maximums. Stupid people learn fast when you hit them where it hurts. Then in the face just for good measure ;)
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Chris: I think the City and whoever else looks after the areas in question have to come up with a plan to eliminate this sort of disgusting activity. For instance, during the July long weekend, why don't RCMP along with the Parks people exercise some zero tolerance for the yahoos who want to rip up the land, and throw their garbage all over the place. Designated campsites should be allotted and no illegal camping allowed. People were given the opportunity to act like responsible adults and because they want to act like children they should be treated as such. License plates along with ID information should be taken. If the morons, start shooting up the place or are drunk in a public place then they should be arrested or given the boot. I mean enough is enough, it is time for the law abiding folk to stand up and make their voices heard.
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Chris: I think the City and whoever else looks after the areas in question have to come up with a plan to eliminate this sort of disgusting activity. For instance, during the July long weekend, why don't RCMP along with the Parks people exercise some zero tolerance for the yahoos who want to rip up the land, and throw their garbage all over the place. Designated campsites should be allotted and no illegal camping allowed. People were given the opportunity to act like responsible adults and because they want to act like children they should be treated as such. License plates along with ID information should be taken. If the morons, start shooting up the place or are drunk in a public place then they should be arrested or given the boot. I mean enough is enough, it is time for the law abiding folk to stand up and make their voices heard.
Lots of e mails and phone calls flying around about this issue today which is good. Just got a call from the Chilliwack Times and it looks like they will be asking some questions to those in charge of this and other areas. This hopefully will help in bringing things under control, as it has been severely lacking for way to long.
One way all of us can help is by talking to anyone we know that has some influence on such matter. Posts like many of you have made above helps greatly too as I know many media people and government officials read this and other forums.
Thanks for making them and hopefully more will too.
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I'd like to know who is responsible for the areas outside city limits, I know this is a problem of jurasdiction...
Anyone have an idea of who to pin this on, or who to write letters to?
Right now, I blame the RCMP... So much for their so-called action plan of zero tolerance, what a joke!!
Cheers,
Nicole
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I'd like to know who is responsible for the areas outside city limits, I know this is a problem of jurisdiction...
Anyone have an idea of who to pin this on, or who to write letters to?
Right now, I blame the RCMP... So much for their so-called action plan of zero tolerance, what a joke!!
Cheers,
Nicole
This area is under the Fraser Valley Regional District but I believe the enforcement duties fall under the jurisdicton of the RCMP or the Provincial CO service. As I said before there is just not enough feet on the ground to do the job that needs to be done.
Barry Penner I am sure would like to hear from you and maybe your friend Mr Forbes ;D would like to add his comments to him also, as a starter. ;D ;D
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It's tough to place blame here, but ultimately if everyone keeps voting for the government that promises the lowest taxes you have to realize that that is going to mean less money for Parks people, conservation officers and police patrols. This behavior is discusting, but public money has to be used to combat it, the hooligans and yahoos doing this stuff are not going to be changed unless someone takes the initiative to police it. When push comes to shove it is the politicians controlling the purse strings that must take the brunt of the blame, and we as citizens for being fool enough to elect them and then re-elect them again. Write your MLA's, let them know that you'd like to see a little money being spent on someplace with trees other than Whistler.
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I would like to see a zero tolerance on drinking in public areas. Too many vandalisms and hooligans can be attributed to alcohol. A young man was killed in Cultus Lake over the weekend because some guy thought he was a tough guy fueled up with alcohol.
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Years ago you would be fined for doing that. It's the lack of enforcement that lets this stuff get out of hand. In the end other groups like people fishing, dirt/atv riders and hunters get blamed for these loser slobs who ruin it for others. Nail them to the cross with fines that help pay for the enforcement. Drinking in public isn't a issue, you can be sober and do the same things. It's usually a case of what you see is what you get. Alcohol just makes them worse. These people need fines and clinical help.....or medication....or a good kick in the sack. :-\
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Its pretty embarrassing to see all that garbage. We can blame our "disposable" society.
Our campsite this weekend looked similar to one of those in Rodney's pictures. Camp chairs, garbage strewn around, bags of cans and whatnot. The only difference is we either packed it up or packed it out. When we left the site was spotless.
Who can afford to leave perfectly good campchairs behind ? They seem to be the new burnt/dirty mattress you would always see out on the FSR's. I have seen them burnt in several fire pits and once found a ring of them on the Squamish way out on a remote gravel bar. there was like a ring of 7 or so. The people must have just got up and walked away. Appalling. >:(
The solution ? Its hard to say. People have to take responsibility for there own actions first and foremost. Then enforcement comes into play. The local establishments could be in there after the weekend to clean all that crap up before the bears and hobos get into it and further spread the crap around.
Thanks to all who clean up after themselves and to those who organize cleanups to tidy up what we all enjoy !
Peace
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I don't know what it is but that whole area - Chilliwack River Valley - seems to be a magnet for people who just don't understand and or don't care about the environment. Nothing surprises me what people leave behind up there. That , the crowds, and the breakins is why I avoid the area.
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We no longer take out of town guest up into the Chilliwack Valley at this time of year because of the state
of it. Alot of them want to see this world class river but we discourage them because of the bone heads
that leave behind all the garbage and the risk you take leaving your car unattended. Two years ago we took
friends up to see the river, parked the car right beside the road, left the car and walked to the river. We
were gone 10 minutes and the car was broken into in that amount of time. Our friends from San Diego
were not impressed at all with the amount of garbage they saw or the fact we were broken into out
in the middle of what could be pristine area.
Now before i get jumped on I have helped out on the a few of the clean up days when work allowed it and
I do pack out trash when I do fish the river. I love the river and will continue to go there by myself I just will
not take out of town guests there. Yes I am ashamed of the state of the valley.
Nuff said for now.
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We all know who is responsible for this mess, the same thing happens year after year by the same people, individuals and groups that have no respect for others because they were never taught that simple rule by their parents !! it is a shame that they treat the earth this way, but I guess when nobody taught you any better you have to get taught the hard way!! obviously more enforcement or for that matter ANY enforcement is desperatly needed for areas such as this !
A few garbage cans set up through any areas that are being used as makeshift campsites would make a bit of a difference, even those with no brains or respect might actually make the effort to throw their trash there instead of the ground, it is very sad to see pictures such as these, I was brought up a very different way than the youths today, I was taught right from wrong and I was taught to respect others and the earth... too bad parents don't have or take the time to do this anymore :(
TH
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I do not know if a garbage can at these site will make any difference to
those that are the offenders. I live right in front of a bus stop and the
same kind of people that trash the site also throw thier garbage on our l
awn instead of using the trash can at the bus stop. The only way to get
them to start respecting the enviroment is to hit them were it hurts,
in the pocket book.
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Absolutely disgusting!!!! No respect for laws , environment , people or themselves. Like the song says maybe we need to start putting more of these idiots in the ground and get away from this permissive society where they can do whatever they want. If you say something you get sworn at or worse. Way more enforcement will be needed but it starts with enforcement at home first.
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It hasn't started now with the camping season..The trainbridge area has been a mecca for getting trashed as soon as it was warm enough for people to make camp fires...They chop down the trees and leave them laying on the ground, They make pits with pallets that leave nails and garbage everywhere...Fish it in May and it's a constant...I also think the horse people should be held accountable for their actions..You see bags for people with dogs but there is horse sh*t everywhere..they ride their animals into the water and across with no respect to the fisherman fishing the run....I've had them stop in below me when my fly was way below their horses legs and just stand there...They ride up the sides of banks etc. but everyone seems to think that is fine? WHY?
While they are only a small problem, you basically have zero enforcement of any kind...I think part of it is the local business's who would scream bloody murder about losing business that the idiots bring in when they are on the river... It would only take two patrol cars, one on the top and one for down below to make rounds a couple times a day to straighten out the matter...but in a town with crackheads wandering around and no one bothering them..why would they bother about about the vedder?
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That is uncalled for! people wonder why they have to pay for camping in some parks, and can't park on the side of the road to enjoy that beautiful strech of river or lake. because people are done cleaning up aftre them.
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Well enforcement is the key. I don't want to see barricades all over the bush.
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kind of makes you wonder what these pigs live like at home now dont it.??? tottally sickens me. :'(
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Today's ChIlliwack Progress
Mess left by long weekend campers ‘a stain’
By Jennifer Feinberg - Chilliwack Progress - May 22, 2008
Long-weekend visitors left a huge mess at some of the riverside areas above Tamihi Creek where the no-camping and no-parking rules are not enforced.
Campers and partiers left behind mountains of garbage, camping gear and shotgun casings, according to Chris Gadsden of the Chilliwack Vedder River Cleanup Coalition.
“The area up to Tamahi looked good, but from there up things were near the worst I had ever seen,” he said. The long-time river steward and angler toured the forested areas after the long weekend to see if the promised enforcement clampdown through Section 58 went into effect.
“If we are really serious about dealing with this destruction of this area we must have a stronger support from the RCMP and the province with both providing enough personnel to deal with this stain on our environment,” Gadsden said. “Sometimes I think these law enforcement people are stretched too thin to cover areas like this.”
RCMP Const. Lea-Anne Dunlop said extra patrol cars covered Cultus Lake and the Chilliwack River Valley throughout the weekend.
“Things were relatively well-policed with the enhanced patrols and we didn’t get any extraordinary calls,” she said.
An additional 120 officer hours were logged as a result of the RCMP’s seasonal policing of the recreational areas, which was complemented by volunteer efforts from the local Citizens on Patrol.
“I do think the Section 58 is working and it’s certainly minimizing the number of campers below Tamihi,” Dunlop said.
Mayor Clint Hames, also FRVD chair, suggested the challenge still remains as to how to bring broader enforcement to the back country area, after viewing photos by Gadsden of the destruction left behind by visitors.
“I don’t think the people of Chilliwack should have to shell out tax money to police an area outside of our boundaries and it is clear that there aren’t enough provincially paid police to manage these areas on long weekends,” he said.
Some of the reports of garbage dumping occurred on Crown land, where people have “unlimited” access, he noted.
“Relying on their good graces to keep it clean and safe is clearly not working,” Hames observed. “We have put forward the idea of a special status ‘Protected Area’ or ‘Recreation Management Area’ so that rules would allow camping in designated areas only.
“To date, we have made little progress in this area and I fear that this kind of activity will continue,” the mayor added.
“Sad that we have people with so little respect.”
The mayor said he’d be happy to see the Section 58 area expanded, since it only stretches from the Vedder Bridge to Tamihi.
But only 10 RCMP files were opened on the weekend from police calls specifically from the Chilliwack River Valley area, said Dunlop, and only three from the seasonal policing efforts. Two were vehicle crashes and one was a report of a neighbourhood party.
“There were no calls about firearms discharging,” she said.
But campers will often bring firearms into the bush.
“Obviously that’s a concern if they’re not stored properly, or used in a dangerous manner or while the owners are consuming alcohol. Firearms and alcohol should never be combined.”
RCMP officers tried to be proactive, by patrolling the areas before the 11 p.m. deadline of no overnight camping or parking.
“It’s better to approach people while there’s still daylight, and before the campers are hunkered down for the night,” Dunlop said.
A total of 17 tickets were handed out by RCMP for vehicle-related and liquor infractions, there were more than 20 liquor seizures.
“Copious amounts of alcohol were dumped,” the officer added.
Five 24-hour road-side driving suspensions were handed out and one prohibited driver was taken off the road.
Boat patrols on Cultus Lake saw 17 warnings issued, and three charges laid for failing to have life jackets on the water, she said. Boaters were also checked to ensure all appropriate licensing and safety regulations were being followed.
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Chilliwack Times Today
Crackdown falls short
Paul J. Henderson, The Times
Published: Friday, May 23, 2008
The crackdown on illegal camping activity was on this past long weekend, but the result was pretty much the same as every year.
Maybe worse.
"The way I looked at it, it's just as bad if not worse than it ever has been in that area," Chris Gadsden, a director with the Chilliwack Vedder River Cleanup Coalition told the Times after the Victoria Day long weekend. "It gets frustrating."
In a blog posting on the FishingwithRod.com website, Gadsden posted numerous photos of garbage and mess left behind from illegal campers in the valley. The photos depict piles of garbage in various locations, some of which animals have gone through, as well as one photo of hundreds of spent shotgun shells taken on the Bench Forest Service Road.
Before the long weekend the Ch-ihl-kway-uhk Tribe Society sent out a press release to warn that the tribe, conservation and forestry officers, the Fraser Valley Regional District, local resident volunteers and RCMP members would be patrolling and would have a zero tolerance policy.
Denise van den Eerenbeemt, general manager for the Ch-ihl-kway-uhk Tribe Society, said there was relative quiet in the area below the Tamihi bridge, which is covered by a provincial government Section 58 order forbidding overnight camping, but above the bridge things were different.
"There were lots of reports of drinking, ATVs on the road, fireworks and lots of garbage," she said. "Unfortunately, the normal."
For Gadsden there needs to be more enforcement, although he certainly does not point the blame at frontline conservation officers or RCMP members.
"I've sent this to Barry [Penner] too because I keep hounding away at him to get more conservation officers," he said.
The issue for some is that more and more people from the Lower Mainland want to get up into the beautiful valley to camp on summer weekends, and there isn't enough legal camping.
After the long weekend the RCMP reported that enhanced patrols in the valley and at Cultus Lake added an additional 120 hours of policing resources.
On the weekend RCMP members issued 17 violation tickets for motor vehicle act and liquor control and licence act offences. In addition there was: 20 liquor seizures and "copious amounts" of alcohol dumped; five 24-hour roadside suspensions issued; 17 warnings given to boaters; and three charges laid for not wearing life jackets.
In addition to the zero tolerance crackdowns, 44 calls for service in the areas were responded to in the valley and at Cultus.
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I'm kind of confused by part of this...The residents pretty much made their own bed by shutting down the mid river section, for their own reasons..and why I stopped doing clean ups on the vedder!!! So now basically the law is saying that's the area they are concerned about patrolling and the rest is fair game? WELL? Wasn't this already addressed on here ad nausium? Wasn't this exactly what many said would happen AND that the police would ONLY worry about the mid river section??? HMmmmm sure seems that way to me...
I wonder why the residents up there (Chris?) don't form a block watch group and go out and take license plate #'s and photo's of the campers while they are there and then turn them in if the area is trashed? Or go out in groups and take back your river by phoning the local police with reports from up river and high powered strobe lights directed on the offenders??
Sometimes all talk is just that!! Sounds like a bunch of hen's waiting for a rooster to step forward!!!!
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There is 16 volunteers (Chiliwack River Valley Citizens on Patrol) that do what you have mentioned but the area is so large to deal with and they donot go into one of the worse area's because of safety concerns they tell me.
Saying this, it comes down to the law enforcement to handle this in my mind, volunteers can only do much.
Many volunteer as you know (CVRCC) have spent a lot of time cleaning up the area from the Freeway Bridge to the Chilliwack River Hatchery and we are glad we have so many that come and help out. Can you imagine all the garbage that would be out there as well as washed into the river and down to the ocean if this had not been done over the last 6 years.
Besides other groups have now organized cleanups the last month at Peg Leg Bar and Jesperson Boat launch area. Progress is being made to correct this attack on our environment.
Also many other recreational users including anglers that may not attend the cleanups but do cleanups each and everytime they are out on the river or in the outdoors. That is just great and helps a great deal.
No effort or solution is perfect but doing a little is better than nothing.
When I leave this planet hopefully I have done my part at trying to make it better for those left behind.
Thanks for your post Xgolfman and for doing your part many times.
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I appreciate everyone's concern and work. You all are very dedicated to preserving this area and it's good to see. I hope I don't sound too cynical however, but sometimes it's best to let things go to hell in a handbasket to force government to take action. If the symptoms are covered up too much the illness isn't always very noticeable. What I'm getting at is that if word gets out that there are a bunch of meth users trashing the place and it's not safe to go etc, etc, the businesses will be up in arms. They will then in turn put the heat on the government to do something. I for one will do my part to contact the local toursm board or chamber of commerce to see what I can do. Those pictures discust me and I can't tell you how many times I've thought of not coming up because of the threat of getting my truck broken into. Keep fighting the good fight.
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You know what I find ironic about this, is that all this crap happens in the backyard of the Minister of the Environment. I guess the NIMBY policy does not apply to the Chiilliwack River Valley. What we have here is a group of selfish individuals who have no respect for the law, or the environment. It is a pretty sad commentary on the type of world we live in.
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Can't the citizens on Patrol call in this stuff? I know it can't be that big of a deal for guys to go up and take pictures of license plates and the campers to make sure the area is cleaned up...
I just can't believe that IF the city wanted to they couldn't square this away in one weekend..
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AMEN...... X.G.............It all comes down to respect for anything and the lack of it. The only thing some understand is the law. Therefore a lack of the law and disrespect of things has brought this on. Rod's idea allowing it to hit rock bottom is the only way enough discust will arrive.
When we were kids sometimes a good spanking was the only way our parents got our attention. But if NO spanking ever happened we continued the wrong path. The offenders MUST be taught RESPECT ,,,,yes by the law . If picture after picture after picture is given to the RCMP the Sqeeky wheel WILL get some grease I.E. action. Just keep complaining to them.
Every time you clean things up for these camper pigs they see all is nice and neat again , therefore "my junk just seems to go away magicly I can dump again".
Thoughts from the USA
Sorry for your problem ............JW
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Can't the citizens on Patrol call in this stuff? I know it can't be that big of a deal for guys to go up and take pictures of license plates and the campers to make sure the area is cleaned up...
I just can't believe that IF the city wanted to they couldn't square this away in one weekend..
Apparently I have been told the COP have been doing what you suggested but will not go into one of the bad areas as I mentioned before because of safety issues.
This area is outside the City Of Chilliwack's City limits and is under the jurisdiction of the Fraser Valley Regional District
Steelhead, do you have the same problem down your way if not how did they solve it?
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It might be outside of Chilliwack's jurisdiction, but not outside the influence of Chilliwack. What would happen to Chilliwack if suddenly people chose not to spend a dime there because of rancid and unsafe conditions at their doorstep?
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Here is a tongue in cheek solution for this problem. Seeing that funds are so tight for extra Conservation Officers, why not make the Chilliwack River Valley the new home for problem black bears in the Lower Mainland. The bears will be there 24/7, easy to maintain as they will feed on the garbage that is strewn about or the odd chronic polluter. Seeing that everyone at the municipal and the provincial level is passing the buck around on this issue with no one taking ownership for it. We have to think outside the box and come up with new and creative solutions. ;D ;D
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Chris............ I have fished the Vedder/ Chill. system for 30 plus years and rarely see any problem during the winter season so its a few gerks that cause 90% of the problem. It has to come from law enforcement. However the general lack of respect for everything is at the root of all of this ,,I E.,,breakins, theft, vandilizing, school tagging and all of it. I know it may sound polyanna but at least the rivers , lakes , schools, private property we haven't seen the abuse you are experiencing up north. Its a sociatal problem. Mostly related to large city mentaiity. Again the big stick is the only thing they seem to understand.
Strong peer pressure and "we just don't do that" ,,,,parent to offspring influence is how it works here.
My mother was Canadian so I am Dual citizen and sorry to say I see a marked diff. in Canada............
Dam it we all need Respect , respect for all
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Maybe something that would help with enforcement would be to have a larger percent of fines going directly to the policing agency? Maybe a bylaw enforcement? Not that I think its good to give police a motive to fine people, but really, those people are piggies (the campers ::) ) and something should be improved obviously.
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Chris How you been long time no see. Anyway I,m glad to see the old riverwatch program is now a booming success i,ve been out of the game for a while due to the hrs i work. I had a look at the criminal garbage that was left by the vandals on the long weekend boy does it look like what was left on the lower part of the river. So what has to happen, look what abbotsford did with there side of the river THEY SHUT IT OFF. now Chilliwack is following suit with the new gates, hopefully they will open it when fishing season is upon us.What i have noticed is that the lower part of the river is now a lot cleaner with the criminal garbage and the litter basically under control. I think it,s about time for the city or whomever to install gates up top i understand that this will be an inconvenience for some but what choice do we have. To the die hard fishers perhaps they could request from the gatekeepers for a key so they could get access to their favorite spots. I understand that this would be a bit of a hasslefor them but again what do we do.SHUT IT OFF If these criminals have no regard for our little piece of heaven then they should not be aloud to access it.This is a huge problem i only wish i had all the answers but i dint i can only suggest perhaps a few solutions if any are followed up then my dream of a unpolluted valley will have come true. I have a few more ideas but i,ll keep them for a future discussion
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Its to bad the freshest couldnt have held off for another week after the may long weekend, It would have gave us a chance to get all the garbage before a large portion of it was swept away. Saturday, there was a half dozen guys above the crossing, killing and keeping fish.
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Saturday, there was a half dozen guys above the crossing, killing and keeping fish.
Did these people killing and keeping fish get reported to the C.O's or the RCMP?
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Saturday, there was a half dozen guys above the crossing, killing and keeping fish.
I think it might be high time to start lynching people outlaw style.
Just pop out of the truck and go to work on the arms and legs with Uncle Louis. That would show pocahers and bums that you dont mess around on 'our' turf.
Its extreme but what will show these guys that people mean business ????
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Chris, I didn't realize the upper was out of chilliwacks jurisdiction... Man, that's just bum luck...I still think if they did a few cruises up and the river then it would solve some of the problem...But unless a vigilante gang went out and started doing the job the police and handcuffed to do...Nothing is going to change except it will get worse!!!
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This is a problem everywhere here in British Columbia, there just is so many people that donot care about looking after our environment. Today's Vancouver Province had a front page story on all the rowdyism and alike that is going on each weekend during good weather.
These activities go hand in hand with what the Chilliwack River Valley is experiencing.The challenge of course is to come up with some viable solutions and get some agencies to enforce them, not easy.
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Here is the article.
Warmth brings out rowdies
Police chopper needed to help break up crowd
Kent Spencer, The Province
Published: Monday, May 26, 2008
The summer season started inauspiciously on English Bay beach on the weekend with 100 intoxicated youths releasing pepper-spray into a crowd.
Police said a helicopter was needed to help disperse 1,500 to 2,000 unruly people, who had gathered to enjoy the year's first warm Saturday night.
With the helicopter shining a powerful light overhead, and officers deployed on the ground, English Bay beach was closed for the night. The beach is one of the region's top tourist attractions.
Brent Ganby, president of the West End Residents Association, blames weekend violence and drunkenness at English Bay on outsiders coming to Vancouver for a good time.
"In order to deal with disruption, we requested the assistance of the [police helicopter]," said Insp. Ted Schinbein yesterday. "It provided illumination and we were able to move people off the beach.
"We had a very busy night in the downtown core, from late in the evening until early in the morning."
Parks board commissioner Allan de Genova said it's "a bit sad" a helicopter was needed to "disperse rowdy people."
"We're going to have to crack down very hard. This sends the wrong message to families who use the beach. There will be zero tolerance. Re-offenders will not be happy campers," said de Genova, who is running for the Vision party's mayoral nomination.
Schinbein said there was a stabbing, three gun-related calls and seven to 10 disturbances from groups of people fighting.
At 10:15 p.m., about 100 "intoxicated fighting youths" were squirting pepper spray into a crowd on the beach in the 1700-block Beach Avenue. Police eventually got them to leave.
The stabbing occurred at 8:10 p.m. Saturday, when two men got into an altercation in the 700-block Beach Avenue. Both had been drinking.
Police, who have a videotape of the incident from a witness, say the victim's throat was slashed by a knife. His injuries are not life-threatening. The suspect, who is in custody, is expected to be charged.
Brent Granby, president of the West End Residents Association, believes the beaches are safe.
"I don't think there is an unsafe environment," he said. "It is not a dangerous place to go."
Granby blames outsiders who come to Vancouver looking for a good time.
"So many people come into the city from outlying areas. It's a challenge for Vancouver police. It speaks to the necessity of a regional police force. There's no way Vancouver taxpayers can bear the responsibility of this kind of policing needs," he said.
"Last night was the first warm Saturday night in a long, cold, wet spring," Granby said. "A lot of people came by bus to English Bay. Davie Street was bustling."
De Genova said the VPD's four-person beach patrol has already confiscated large quantities of liquor so far this season.
"We do not condone alcohol or illicit drug use on any beach," said de Genova. "The beach patrol is back but police are stretched a bit. What took place is unfortunate. People should bring soft drinks to the beach and leave their alcohol at home."spencer@png.canwest.com
© The Vancouver Province 2008
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With regards to the incident at Engiish Bay, sounds like the individuals at the Vancouver Parks Board will be taking a zero tolerance stand towards the drinking of alcohol or illicit drug use at any of the public beaches in Vancouver. Makes sense to me, for if you wish to have a good time at the beach or in the great outdoors leave the drugs and booze at home.
Be interesting to see if Cultus Lake will follow suit with a zero tolerance towards drugs and liquor.
And even though it would be initially unpopular, they should only allow day use sites on the land above the Tamahi Falls. Camping would only be allowed at provincial or private campsites. Any other forms of camping should not be allowed.
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Chamber calls for campsite increase
Paul J. Henderson, The Times
Published: Tuesday, May 27, 2008
After a long weekend that saw the usual throng of illegal campers in the Chilliwack River Valley, it may come as little surprise that campsites in the province have been on the decline for a few years.
In a move to stem the loss of campgrounds across B.C., the B.C. Chamber of Commerce passed a resolution to encourage a 25 per cent increase in the number of campgrounds at their annual annual general meeting held in Whistler last week.
While tourism is one of the largest sectors of the B.C. economy, the number of campsites declined by 4,759, or 10.54 per cent, between 2005 to 2007, according to numbers from Tourism British Columbia.
Over that period of time 74 campgrounds closed, including public and private facilities.
"It sparked a lot of discussion at the AGM," said Jeremy Sibley, president of the Chilliwack Chamber of Commerce.
"The tack we are taking is from the business perspective, for the money that campers and recreational users bring to communities."
Sibley said even some individuals who represent the hotel industry supported the resolution because, contrary to intuition, increased camping can even help the hotel business as a result of spin-offs.
Every year the B.C. Chamber of Commerce sends out a policy manual to various levels of government to address a whole host of issues that affect business in the province.
The resolution on campsites recommended a goal to increase campsites and lodging spaces by 25 per cent over the next five years, and to identify suitable Crown land for campsite and recreational vehicle (RV) development.
Currently there are 936 private campgrounds that provide tenting and RV accommodations with 44,481 sites available in the province. There are also 340 provincial park campgrounds with 11,125 sites.
The chamber resolution stated that visitors from other provinces and the U.S. are no longer provided with enough facilities to encourage return visits.
"The B.C. Provincial Government has stated they would like to double tourism by 2015--this cannot happen with diminishing accommodations in rural regions," the resolution stated.
Environment Minister Barry Penner did not get back to the Times before going to press.
© Chilliwack Times 2008
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They use to put roadblocks up a lot of the logging/secondary roads and nab the worst of them before they got to the forrest service campsites. I don't think having pay only camping is the answer to anything. As they would do like they do at English Bay just show up and party without camping. If you don't have some sort of enforcement your going to get these losers showing up every summer leaving there garbage destroying property and environment in their drunken meth induced delirium. It's only gotten worse because they know there is nothing stopping them. Even when it warms up a bit they will come a floating down the Vedder leaving empties, KFC, and garbage behind because they know there is no one to fine them under the age old law of littering, public drunkenness etc. I use to get stopped going into the back country in the summer by the RCMP to check for open alcohol and firearms etc. Not much of that anymore. :-\
Why would tourists want to come here and be assaulted by drunken thugs because we have a lack of enforcement. If you call into the RCMP now and say that you were threatened by drunken rowdies while camping, I doubt they would make it there that day if at all. Low on the priority list. Those people who collect fees from the once free forrest service campgrounds are not around when trouble starts and not likely to do anything as they would get beaten too. It's best handled by the police anyway.
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If the powers that be said you can only camp in designated campsites along the river and no where else then you could open more parks etc..If you were camping in one of these sites and paying for it you would be allot less tolerant of drunks etc and in kind they would be forced to leave or learn to behave...BUT when they can camp anywhere they please, chop down trees and act like total a$$holes without repercussions then why would they?
Only camping on the Vedder should be in designated sites period...Make trouble, go to jail and get heavy fines..Alternatives to paying for your fines...Vedder river clean ups mandatory...get your ticket signed AFTER the cleanup and be monitored by the directors..would love to know how these losers would feel after doing a few cleanups about trashing the river again?
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I recently contacted the Mayor of Chilliwack, The honorable Clint Hames. Here's what he had to say about the issue:
Thank you for the e-mail. Even though the area you speak of is not technically in the city, we do care deeply about the destruction of the area and the disturbing trend of theft from vehicles.
There are several challenges to protecting this area. Firstly, the area is Provincial Crown land. This means that everyone, including people who are homeless and use theft as a means of survival, can “camp” in the area. We have tried very hard over the past several years to have the area declared a recreation management area, a park or anything to allow the regulation of uses in the Chilliwack River Valley. To date, we have been unsuccessful in bringing about significant change.
As such, we rely on too few Conservation Officers and too few Provincially assigned police to patrol the area. You would be interested to know that the area sees nearly a million external visitors a year. I would encourage you to write to the Minister of the Environment and urge more protection for the Valley.
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Most of the stuff in Rodney's pictures is bags of garbage or far larger piles than any group of campers would produce. Sloppy campers don't bag their garbage or pile it up before leaving it. That stuff is houeshold garbage delivered to the bush by local residents. Solution: Make the landfills free for small loads.
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Most of the stuff in Rodney's pictures is bags of garbage or far larger piles than any group of campers would produce. Sloppy campers don't bag their garbage or pile it up before leaving it. That stuff is houeshold garbage delivered to the bush by local residents. Solution: Make the landfills free for small loads.
Funny you should say that....I was walking out up by the upper gravel pit by the short pullout that is used as a dumping ground...A new toyota tacoma, grey , lifted and sporting a super fancy all chrome grill and front bumper light bar pulled in...A young guy and his girlfriend with a big box of trash had pulled in and up and were about to dump that out in the bush..We walked up the trail and caught um and they jumped back in their rig and took off..Think they could have afforded the dump but obviously why when the river is so easily used Very sad!!!!
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Most of the stuff in Rodney's pictures is bags of garbage or far larger piles than any group of campers would produce. Sloppy campers don't bag their garbage or pile it up before leaving it. That stuff is houeshold garbage delivered to the bush by local residents. Solution: Make the landfills free for small loads.
90% of what you saw in the pictures are from campers as I was there and took the pictures. Some of the campers most likely feel a little guilty so bag it in the hope someone or some group will pick it up for them and haul it away for them.
As well most of the camping areas I observed after the long weekend and for many other years have remnants of the camping trip scattered all around the immediate area.
However what you describe happens big time as well not only throughout the CRV but in any rural area and like Xgolfman described.
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Today's Chilliwack Progress as Barry Penner wades in. Further comments are encourgaded, is education the real answer or not?
Education key to stopping illegal campers: Penner
By Jennifer Feinberg - Chilliwack Progress - June 05, 2008
The rules making it illegal to park overnight and camp in the lower part of the Chilliwack River system are working well overall, according to Environment Minister Barry Penner.
“Some would say the simple answer is to hire more government staff to pick up litter and do enforcement,” he said, “but I’m not sure there’s any magic number that would accomplish the desired outcome of having people respect the environment.
“Ultimately it will take more of an education effort to fundamentally change people’s values.”
Different local groups and agencies have been assessing the results, in the wake of the first long weekend of the year in May. Most of the major camping messes and garbage dumping were discovered above the area covered by the rules.
“We certainly worked hard to get the Section 58 order in place (under the Forest and Range Practices Act) and the idea was to use it as a pilot project,” Penner explained.
Trying to stamp out irresponsible camping and
partying next to the pristine Chilliwack-Vedder River system, because of the possible harmful effects on fish and fish habitat were the rationale for the altered legislation in the first place, the local MLA said.
Penner contacted those mandated to coordinate it from the Ministry of Tourism, Sports and the Arts, and is awaiting their assessment of how things went during the Victoria Day long weekend.
“I wanted to hear from them how it’s working and whether they would support extending the enforcement area (above Tamihi) based on the performance to date,” Penner said.
He acknowledged there’s a “range of views” on the idea to expand the territory covered by the Section 58 order.
“Some say extend it, while others say it may have unintended consequences,” the local MLA added.
Citizens on Patrol coordinator Eileen Brader doesn’t think expanding the coverage area would ultimately do the trick.
“I don’t favour section 58 being expanded up to Chilliwack Lake,” she said.
“I feel it will just move the ‘bush campers’ further into the bush and that would make it more difficult to find them and way more dangerous as a fire potential. This is exactly what has happened with the current section 58.”
But she does favour the rules being expanded to cover the Slesse road area.
“It seems to have been left out of the loop down there.”
Certain areas should be transformed into a managed campsite, Brader said, such as the area known as The Cedars, as well as the Chipmunk caves and Larsons Holdings.
“The Bench Road and Chipmunk peninsular should be cleared out and either aggressively monitored or closed.
It has become a dangerous area with irresponsible recreational vehicle drivers.”
Penner said there are four Conservation Officers (COs) stationed in the Chilliwack areas, which “compares favourably” with the rest of the province.
“Other communities would love to have that many,” he stressed.
One of the biggest challenges for the Chilliwack River Valley is that no one agency can adequately police Chilliwack’s vast back country, he said.
“Ministry of the Environment does not have a budget that would allow more COs,” he said simply. “I don’t know if anyone has ideas as to where the extra funding would come from.”
It’s just not as simple as adding more staff.
“We could increase that number by 100 per cent and we still couldn’t be everywhere all the time.
“We rely on all our partner agencies to work together, like from the ministries of forestry and tourism, sports and the arts, as well as RCMP and FVRD, Citizens on Patrol, and First Nations.
The volunteer-driver COP would do more patrols if the group could get their hands on off-road vehicle.
“Our patrollers use their own vehicles, which are fine for the Chilliwack Lake Road, but we are limited in the amount of vehicles we have for logging road use and the wear and tear for regular patrols is expensive,” Brader said. “I also believe that we could do with some Forest Rangers patrolling the whole Valley over weekends, using forestry trucks and radio controlled not turfing campers out but checking to see if they are acting responsibly.
“People need to have fun and the valley is a recreational area.”
But it comes down to a few ruining it for everyone else, she figures.
“Most bush campers, about 97 per cent I have met are good, responsible people, but it is the last three per cent that are spoiling it for everyone and it is this three per cent that needs to be dealt with.”
jfeinberg@theprogress.com
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can't we leave chicken bones or prawn shells or something creative (non destructive) in popular areas to stink them up so the campers stay away?
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can't we leave chicken bones or prawn shells or something creative (non destructive) in popular areas to stink them up so the campers stay away?
I know a farmer who got so fed up by partiers that frequented an area by his place he eventually spread well cured cow manure there and that ended his problem. ;D ;D
Of course one does not want to spoil the camping experience for responsible people.
In respect to Mr Penner's remarks, education is always an important component to many facets of our life but we know without enforcement in our society things will get out of hand.
For example I remember reading a few years the police went on strike for a short time, in a community back East and the downtown turned into one big drag strip with cars exceeding the speed limit every where.
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can't we leave chicken bones or prawn shells or something creative (non destructive) in popular areas to stink them up so the campers stay away?
I know a farmer who got so fed up by partiers that frequented an area by his place he eventually spread well cured cow manure there and that ended his problem. ;D ;D
actually a good idea...lots of other places "good campers" can go camp :)
let's retake the river...
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Our police and legal system in general is like an old tired dog with no teeth. We need a new dog with sharp teeth to put a little fear into the eyes of criminals. Right now it is a joke, people know that for "minor" offences....*if* they get caught that nothing is going to come of it. It wont change and people will continue to get frustrated as long as BC stays so lenient and liberal when it comes to crime and punishment. The problem to me is a political one, and we all know how long that takes to change.
The fireworks here in van....or I should say the "rowdies" at the fireworks every year are a good example of our province's complete lack of balls, and tact, when it comes to dealing with this sort of crime. Fines mean squat. It is disconnected from the event. Drinking on the beach and get caught? Guess what, you get to clean up the beach for a day every weekend, ALL summer. Litter while camping? Same thing. You're on cleanup duty or beautifying/landscaping parks. Don't think the rules apply to you and you dont have to do that work? Go to jail. Stupid people have it way too easy right now.
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With our 41st cleanup not far away, April 12th I thought I would post what we continue to deal with.
More info on the Chilliwack Vedder River Cleanup Society is at www.cleanrivers.ca