Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: swimmingwiththefishes on January 25, 2016, 08:46:02 PM
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This has pretty significant implications for management practices. Looks like our hatcheries are producing a lot of tasty seal food.
The seal population went from 5000 in the good old days to over a 100,000 currently. Of course it's going to effect Salmon/Steelhead returns.
Have a read and watch the video.
http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/seals+blamed+drop+juvenile+salmon+stocks+strait+georgia+study/11673383/story.html?__lsa=e32e-7e5d
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that's the reason commercial boats shot them. and if they had asked any sports fisher during the 80s and 90s seals would have been blamed as one of the reasons for stock declines.oh they are cute cant cull them.
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Seals actually eat salmon? What shocking news! ;D
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Seals are probably smart enough to time when the smolts make their run to the ocean. But I feel its a whole bunch of factors which contribute to declining numbers like fish farms, diseases, lice, warmer water temps bring in larger numbers of mackrel and ect.
Seal cull... maybe if the numbers are really that detrimental to the numbers of salmon returning to the ocean but I am half half on this.
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the article confirms as has been recognized for years, there are real problems around certain hatcheries and human alterations in and around estuaries contribute to the problem. There's no evidence in the Sun article that seals are a major factor in declines seen in the last couple of decades just a possible negative impact on recovery in some areas.
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There's no evidence in the Sun article that seals are a major factor in declines seen in the last couple of decades just a possible negative impact on recovery in some areas.
It's written in the article:
"Although up to only about five per cent of the seals’ diet was juvenile chinook and coho, that five per cent adds up. If you apply the same rate of consumption across the entire seal population, the dewy-eyed predators could be responsible for about 55 per cent of natural mortality of juvenile coho and 45 per cent of chinook."
I don't think this predation factor should be ignored as a significant cause of salmon declines.
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We have seen seals chasing salmon up the Fraser. But at least the Fraser is wide, deep and too murky to limit their kills. If they are at the Stave dam, there will be bad news indeed in that clear shallow water. But at least the area below the dam is still quite wide to run away from predators. Some years ago there was someone reporting that he saw a seal up the Ranger Run during the steelhead season. Hello? That definitely is too much for salmon & steelhead to take when these predators track them up to their home rivers confined to small pools and runs. DFO should cull any seals doing that high up in the rivers for conservation reason. These seals up high in the rivers can surely decimate the stock if not removed. It is known that they just kill to suck the roe or eat the fat belly of a fish. As such, how many fish can each seal kill in a day in such a confined environment up river?
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I would question the authenticity of this claim. I have seen seals in the C-V up to the Vedder Bridge; never higher. It is entirely possible this siting at the Ranger Run was an otter.
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That seal in the Stave may just be a permanent resident now. I see one there almost every time I'm there. I'm sure it's figured out that the dam makes for a great fish trap...
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It's written in the article:
"Although up to only about five per cent of the seals’ diet was juvenile chinook and coho, that five per cent adds up. If you apply the same rate of consumption across the entire seal population, the dewy-eyed predators could be responsible for about 55 per cent of natural mortality of juvenile coho and 45 per cent of chinook."
I don't think this predation factor should be ignored as a significant cause of salmon declines.
this is common sort of logical fallacy. You also ignore other parts of the article where the author of the study cautions against using this evidence to support a cull or that culls in general can achieve their goals given the large number of other variables at play in the natural world
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bears and other predators are also known to eat just salmon brains or roe - they have to to build body fat for winter hibernation. Also it's jumping to conclusions that seals will 'create havoc' among salmon in place such as the upper Chilliwack. I pickings were that easy there'd be more seals not just rumoured sightings. Also you're wrong about the fraser - seals can catch salmon quite easily in it's murky waters.
Face it the world it full of large things that eat little things - not only people and seals do this. Seal culls are likely to have no positive effect on salmon populations.
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I would question the authenticity of this claim. I have seen seals in the C-V up to the Vedder Bridge; never higher. It is entirely possible this siting at the Ranger Run was an otter.
I know of a seal that was caught (and released) this past fall in behind the On The Way store by a FWR member.
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We have seen seals chasing salmon up the Fraser. But at least the Fraser is wide, deep and too murky to limit their kills. If they are at the Stave dam, there will be bad news indeed in that clear shallow water. But at least the area below the dam is still quite wide to run away from predators. Some years ago there was someone reporting that he saw a seal up the Ranger Run during the steelhead season. Hello? That definitely is too much for salmon & steelhead to take when these predators track them up to their home rivers confined to small pools and runs. DFO should cull any seals doing that high up in the rivers for conservation reason. These seals up high in the rivers can surely decimate the stock if not removed. It is known that they just kill to suck the roe or eat the fat belly of a fish. As such, how many fish can each seal kill in a day in such a confined environment up river?
Many years ago, and I am talking about 20 years ago I found a beaver in the upper water shed shot dead with what looked like a shot gun. This was steelhead season, I am thinking someone may have mis identified this beaver as a seal.
Cant say I have ever scene a seal any further than the train bridge area, but you never know.
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I know of a seal that was caught (and released) this past fall in behind the On The Way store by a FWR member.
Hope it was fairly caught and not flossed ;D Also, please tell us gloves weren't used during the release procedure, lol!
Seriously, I think readers, me especially, would like to know more about this.
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What are you guys complaining about? They put up a fight way better then any fish ever could. Why don't we have a seal hatchery program, and a limited retension. There an awesome sport fishery.
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New pet Big Fisher? Cute little guy, I'll have to meet him when I come out! lol...
That's how you've been catching so many, how did you train him? ;D
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One winter several yrs ago. There was a seal I saw in the Stamp river up at the Stamp Falls pool. It was spotted throughout the system over the next few weeks until one of the guides shot it dead. He said that's the day the river turned red. I also saw one in Morris lake several yrs ago as well.
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I would question the authenticity of this claim. I have seen seals in the C-V up to the Vedder Bridge; never higher. It is entirely possible this siting at the Ranger Run was an otter.
Several credible reports of them at the old Hatchery Hole boundary (when it used to be open). I have seen 2 there myself.
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Sorry, I have a hard time believing a seal would endure that length of a swim, especially through the Tamihi rapids area.
However, a seal is a seal and they are very much at home in fresh water ... can you give us more information on these credible reports? or perhaps on the 2 you saw?
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Several credible reports of them at the old Hatchery Hole boundary (when it used to be open). I have seen 2 there myself.
Your not the only one my friend, I witnessed them all the way up to the boundary as well! Don't you guys remember the carcass that was shot up at Fort Apache about 20 years ago. I will try and find the pics one day.
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Sorry, I have a hard time believing a seal would endure that length of a swim, especially through the Tamihi rapids area.
However, a seal is a seal and they are very much at home in fresh water ... can you give us more information on these credible reports? or perhaps on the 2 you saw?
Hey Dave.
One year I was fishing the run below the bridge at tamihi. I saw a large wake in the tail out at first light. I thought it was a large school of fish, but soon the "large school of fish" was up on top of the water snorting up a storm. The seal proceeded to the head, got stuck at the rapids, and got out of the water and simply started walking the edge upstream. I followed it for some time out of curiosity to see how far it would go (plus I figured the run was toast anyway), and it eventually hopped in at the run just up from the rapids, and continued up through the run before I lost it.
After that I have no doubt that a seal could easily make it to limit hole.
They do the same thing on the Stamp. They simply walk around the small set of falls/rapids at girl guide falls just up from the gun range, and can punch/swim through the pockets down below the falls, and make their home in the falls pool during peak salmon runs and peak steelhead season. Last year there were 2 in there every high water, and every fish (steelhead) I caught in the stamp last year had seal damage.
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They do the same thing on the Stamp. They simply walk around the small set of falls/rapids at girl guide falls just up from the gun range,
Its called the bucket. Surprised one of the guides hasn't taken them seals out of the equation swimming around Falls pool eating steelheads...
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Its called the bucket. Surprised one of the guides hasn't taken them seals out of the equation swimming around Falls pool eating steelheads...
Right out of the regs... I'm well aware that it's called "the bucket," but the proper, legal term is "Girl Guide Falls."
STAMP RIVER
No Fishing between signs 200m upstream of & 500m downstream of Stamp Falls, June 15-Nov15
No Fishing from the confluence with ash River upstream to the Great Central Lake dam, Jan 1-apr 30
Bait ban all year upstream of signs at “Girl Guide Falls” (approx. 250 m upstream of the mouth of Beaver Creek)
Bait may ONLY be used Aug 25-May 30 downstream of signs at “Girl Guide Falls” (approx. 250 m upstream of Beaver Creek)
Engine power restriction 7.5 Kw (10hp), on parts
And, as far as I know, the First Nation's in the area were given the rights to "harvest" seals this year. I haven't seen a seal in the river yet, during salmon or steelhead season this year. Hopefully that's a trend of things to come, as they seem to do significant damage some years.
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The seals definitely did " significant damage " to the coho run on the sunshine coast this year
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The seal subject came up in the local tv news about 2-2.5 weeks ago or more...
Report talked about aboriginals natives possibly getting the ok to hunt seals to curb the high population & the meat to be sold in California restaurants.
The news asked a question what the public thought of the idea...think it was a quick survey of the viewers watching the news that day. It was in favour by a big margin.
How does one hunt seal in the PNW? 22 bullet? Does the seal float after being shot? Or net?
It's not like they are on ice flows & get chased down & clubbed.
Natives killing seals for extra $$$ plus lowering numbers for the sake of the salmon does sound like a good idea on the surface anyways.
Me I'm a germ freak ...so as long there's a good system ...ice/flash freezing is important.
From water to restaurant the product has to be well processed /stored.
Wonder if it tastes good.
Side note "Happy Family Day" to everyone.
Too cold ...should be 11-15 C ! Warmer than the prairies though.