Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: RalphH on March 05, 2015, 08:12:12 AM
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Well I guess the jury is still out for some people on the idea of rotational angling as I found out yesterday morning.
I managed to find a nice run empty on the lower river and started at the top working out spey casts - what a fine day for practice and even a crack at a fish.
Wasn't long before another guy carrying a single handed rod arrived, scrambled down the bank and sat on a log at the bottom of the bank. How nice I thought, he's waiting for me to move and open some of the water above me. So I cast and stepped down. Then he got up, cast me a quick side glance and started to walk downstream along the bar.
"Excuse me!" I called . "I just got here would like to work my way down the run. Would you mind starting above me and following me down?"
He then told me I couldn't reserve a piece of the river and asked if I knew where I was fishing. "Do you know you are fishing the Vedder River?"
I said yes I did know where I was fishing and no I couldn't reserve the river but it was all a matter of etiquette and being polite and I was moving down and there was room above me. He told me he was going downstream of me and asked how much room I wanted between us. I again asked him to start above me. He asked me what I would do in his place? I told him if another angler was already on the run I would have gone elsewhere - as I had done with the first 2 runs I'd looked at that morning.
Well then I was answered with a well reasoned FU. He then went well below me effectively splitting the run in 2 between us until he left.
I'm surprised a fly angler would act this way particularly on an empty run with vacant water elsewhere. He was clearly aware of what I was asking and why but not willing to play along. I can't help think that if I hadn't pipped up I think he would have cut close in below me in the sweetest part of the run. It shows me there is some way to go in sharing the water on what's often an overcrowded river.
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this happens every year every day, nothing new.
I just don't understand why so many people expect etiquette.. there is way to much pressure on that system. it should not be expected its just nice if it happens..
on occasion i get up very early to walk an hour and a half into a spot so i can get a crack at a spot for first light before things get crazy.. and not once have I been able to enjoy such fishing. The people walking up on me are by no means new anglers. most are very good rods, and locals. They do not share the spot or even expect to give any etiquette... so it just keeps confusing me why so many people expect this on the vedder, so I would have to agree with the other angler when he says.. "what river are we on".. this wont change but will just continue to get worse.
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When I used to fish the Vedder, if I was the first one on the river,I would start at the sweetest part of the run first to get the first crack at holding fish,then start at the top
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Right on. Choose the spot where you think the fish will be holding first.
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Well, discussing it is the first step.
Perhaps if enough folks piped up (in a non-confrontational manner) enough folks would become educated and then the behavior would be the wade of shame.
You can't change everyone's behavior but even educating some might have an impact if for no other reason than not being the asshat that's discussed on the internet.
I used to be confrontational but that just left me with baggage that I'd carry around all day and found it hard to enjoy the rest of my adventure at times.
Say a few words then let it go.
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I'm surprised that you were surprised a "fly angler" would do that to you? Like they're better then gear fisherman??
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I'm surprised that you were surprised a "fly angler" would do that to you? Like they're better then gear fisherman??
x2 .. I got low hole all the time, it will get worst.
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Actually yeah they are often better, at least if they've been at it a while but not always. FWIW judging by his casting ability and the fact he hung up his fly on the bottom so much I think he was a neophyte inspired by the romantic ideal of a steelhead on the fly after decades of catching them on guts and jam dunked well down with a section of lead pipe. But don't take this seriously. ;D
I do agree the Vedder is what is and what's to be done but go fishing or go elsewhere.
I've been on both ends now - virtually assaulted after moving into the water what I thought was a more than reasonable distance from a pair of anglers who were close enough to each other for a good long french kiss between each cast. One of the amorous pair then charged down the 70 feet or so between us chewing bile about "low holing fly fishing A** holes" ( and I must confess I feared for what was left of my virginity!) to fence post less than 2 feet from me and pop a cast dink float not 5 feet right in front of me. Well when I lost control of a few snap Ts propelling a well weighted intruder about both our ears he retreated back upstream to the safety of his clearly embarrassed life partner.
But I digress...both 'gentlemen' were well on in years, perhaps in the early stages of dementia which can effect the temper or cause a lack thereof.
Since that latter event and one other on the Judd road chum salmon conga line, I always ask first and have never been denied or had a bad experience.
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Last trip out I got to the (short) run second, waited for the guy in front of me to work the run thoroughly. He stepped aside to let me and my buddy work it. I hooked and landed a hatch doe on cast 3. My buddy stepped in and hooked and lost a large buck, then we stepped aside and let the guy behind us work the run.
Other than fenceposters I rarely run into annoying people on the Vedder, but then again my expectations are different.
I don't expect to force everyone to work at my pace and I don't expect that a 500m long run is owned by the person who starts at the head.
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I started at the top of a run with 1 guy below me about mid point of a fairly long run. I would make about 20 casts and then move down 10-15 feet eventually catching up to this guy after about 30 min. I asked him if he was fence posting, because if he was, I was going around around him. He responded by saying "I just got here"... I had a laugh and said, " I've been behind you for half hour now and you haven't moved". He got really pissed when I told him that I was going to fish around him. I believe in river etiquette because I would expect some in return but sometimes it just gets ridiculous out there. If someone expects another fisherman to wait an hour behind him so he can diddle his way through a run, that's just crazy. I have never had a problem with people fishing around me when I feel the need to work a spot for a bit longer than normal so why should anyone else. Am I wrong??
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No you're not wrong. In the case I opened the thread with it was just a story. A true story but still a story. There's no particular lesson to be learned.
I thought I'd ask rather than getting pissed off because the guy shows up later and just goes in below me. As I said I've been doing the same for people already on a run just to avoid any unpleasantness.I don't particularly like the idea of rotational angling and have been skeptical it can work on rivers like the Vedder/Chilliwack. Too many people there don't give a crap and think of fishing where they want and how they want as a right.
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This is exactly one of the reasons why I'm turned off the Vedder now.
It started with a fishing friend who always like to hit the top of the run and then book it below me to hit the tailout around me. Eventually I had enough and we just stopped fishing together.
This activity is so common now that I just gave up. I started getting the impression that if you go out with a fly, you become a magnet for others to fish out of your back pocket.
I started going to more secluded areas where gear fishermen wouldn't go - but that's not what happens - they come anyways thinking there must be a hidden run or something they need to try.
Like I say, I've given up on the Vedder for now - I don't go fishing to add stress to my life. It stopped being enjoyable for me so I'm done with it for now. I hope things and attitudes on the river change, but I fear they won't. I might try sneak out there once in a while but for now I'm a little bitter about it.
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Last trip out I got to the (short) run second, waited for the guy in front of me to work the run thoroughly. He stepped aside to let me and my buddy work it. I hooked and landed a hatch doe on cast 3. My buddy stepped in and hooked and lost a large buck, then we stepped aside and let the guy behind us work the run.
Other than fenceposters I rarely run into annoying people on the Vedder, but then again my expectations are different.
I don't expect to force everyone to work at my pace and I don't expect that a 500m long run is owned by the person who starts at the head.
excellent. as it should
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I just don't understand why so many people expect etiquette.. there is way to much pressure on that system. it should not be expected its just nice if it happens..
That attitude is part of the problem. We should always expect etiquette, and respect, with everything we do as humans. If we don't expect it, we won't get it. Allowing people to be douchebags because it's the norm is just as much a part of the problem as the idiots doing it.
I'm glad Ralph said something, and hopefully that idiot will think twice next time.
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it's funny to me that nobody puts up with that cupcakes on a golf course! Yet any schmuck can go buy a fishing licence and some gear, show up at a river and lake and do whatever he pleases.
I think fishing licences should have the same drill as a hunting licence and these schmoes should have to take a course. Just my two bits after fishing the Chilliwack /Vedder system for more than 49 years.
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As others have said the issue is the mindset.
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That attitude is part of the problem. We should always expect etiquette, and respect, with everything we do as humans. If we don't expect it, we won't get it. Allowing people to be douchebags because it's the norm is just as much a part of the problem as the idiots doing it.
I'm glad Ralph said something, and hopefully that idiot will think twice next time.
The people that low hole are probably the same ones that leaves the Timmys cups at the top of the run for the next group to pick up
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Expectations often lead to disappointment... learned this as a child, lol. Clearly others have not learned this important life lesson... and one that paves the path to happy Ness. ( Yes My Spelling sucks, Expect More FROM Me, lol)
Expecting things from others.... this made me laugh!
I also find it interesting that those who "expect" are also the ones who are often in conflict with others ( part of the problem? ) ... things that make you go hmm... lol
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I also find it interesting that those who "expect" are also the ones who are often in conflict with others ( part of the problem? ) ... things that make you go hmm... lol
No! Just trying to be part of the solution! Bad manners and ignorance should be addressed. As politely, but addressed.
Like Fly-tec says That attitude is part of the problem.
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Shame them into submission.
Muhahaha.......
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Nothing is more gratifying than to have someone low-hole you, only to then subsequently bag a fish in water that they have covered.
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Nothing is more gratifying than to have someone low-hole you, only to then subsequently bag a fish in water that they have covered.
shhhh! Lol
Baged quite a few this way and I'm totally OK with someone low holing me as it will never negatively effect my day of fishing....
And just to clarify, when someone tries to force their way on others their natural reaction is to do the complete opposite... sometimes productive but making friends and expressing ones views can lead to the other person understanding and possibly wanting to vs being forced to do something someone else wants done...
And then there are those who don't give a f#$ K... They always put a smile on my face, lol. That's life and we are free to do as we please, thank god!
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just like the CORE course for hunting fishing should follow suit
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I find the problem of individuals fenceposting during Steelhead season to be a bit problematic and getting worse. Just work that sweet piece of water and move along. Pounding the same piece of water with 50 or a hundred casts before moving a foot is a sure sign of a rookie or a lazy man, so don't be surprized if I watch you for a bit then move below you, I don't have time to watch you throw a 100 casts then decide to switch up your presentation and hit the same piece of water again for another 100
...I knew he was there...and finally after 150 casts to the same spot I nailed him I've heard no one say... ::)
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Nothing is more gratifying than to have someone low-hole you, only to then subsequently bag a fish in water that they have covered.
x2
Vedder fish are pounded. Being the 14th person to pass over them vs. 15th is not going to matter. Present your offering properly, get the right drift, use the right tackle.
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x2
Vedder fish are pounded. Being the 14th person to pass over them vs. 15th is not going to matter. Present your offering properly, get the right drift, use the right tackle.
Absolutely true........Good rods always get their fish regardless,they spend more time focusing on their presentation,and less time whining on things they have no control of
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x2 .. I got low hole all the time, it will get worst.
The never ending battle; us bait fishermen are just savages that kill fish due to bait being stuck deep in the fishes throat (cant happen with a fly ::) ) and the fly guy is the gentle surgeon that catches the fish in the most ethical and sportman like way. You dint get that flak the other way round. . . sometimes people need to remember the roots of fishing and stop treating it as a pure amusement for our own benefit.
As for the whole ethics thing 90 percent of guys would and try to follow such principles as fish above an angler already working a run, but the vedder is so busy on weekends its just impossible you will not be able to cover enough water and your chances to catch fish will be near zero (speaking steelhead) i have given up much fishing time due to ethics and i will continue to do so. That being said when it gets this bad i dont see or expect everyone to do the same.
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The never ending battle; us bait fishermen are just savages that kill fish due to bait being stuck deep in the fishes throat (cant happen with a fly ::) ) and the fly guy is the gentle surgeon that catches the fish in the most ethical and sportman like way. You dint get that flak the other way round. . . sometimes people need to remember the roots of fishing and stop treating it as a pure amusement for our own benefit.
lol........not true Floater,after all it was us fly fishermen that invented flossing with our 15ft leaders,and take 10ft of T14 sink tip,roll it up and shrink wrap it and we have what looks like a 2" piece of lead,but we are gentle surgeons so we convinced ourselves in our minds that it was ethical,but it was the gear fisherman who perfected the technique,so we have to blame someone,much like low holing and fence posting ;D ;D
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Same thing happened to me on Tuesday. I glared at the fellow until he knew I was watching and when he looked over I signaled for him to move to the back of the line. He happily obliged. From gear guys to spey fishers etiquette is quickly going down the drain. I even let my brother who's new to swinging flies go ahead of me just so I can push the pace when he stays put. Either work your way down the run and move on to another or reset and go back to the top.
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The never ending battle; us bait fishermen are just savages that kill fish due to bait being stuck deep in the fishes throat (cant happen with a fly ::) ) and the fly guy is the gentle surgeon that catches the fish in the most ethical and sportman like way. You dint get that flak the other way round. . . sometimes people need to remember the roots of fishing and stop treating it as a pure amusement for our own benefit.
nicely trolled and absolutely irrational.
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No more irrational than your surprise that a "fly guy" would not follow etiquette.
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As I said it was just a story and I was stating my feelings. Yours was a rant. But whatever.
I don't believe the guy had done much fly fishing. It has mostly been fly anglers advocating rotational angling and it is a system developed by Fly Anglers in the Maritimes. I've also done a lot of bait & gear fishing as well as fly angling and yeah fish will swallow a fly deeply but infrequently relative to bait. Drifted bait is least likely than another form of bait fishing I am experienced with to be taken deeply perhaps less frequently then some forms of fly angling. C&R mortality studies bear this out.