Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Trout_Bum on November 27, 2013, 04:29:28 PM
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I am just getting my stuff polished up for Steelhead season. I have an Ambassadeur 6500 C3, which I normally spool with 12lb Ultragreen. I see my spool capacity is 320 yds, for 12 lb line. I would like to "fill up" my spool with braid backing, then tie in 100 yds or so of mono as the business end of my line. My thinking here is to be able to change out fresh mono on a more regular basis without breaking the bank.
What do others on this board do? Also, what knot is best for mono to braid.
Cheers, Trout Bum
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Bad idea. Just spool up for mom for 7 bucks.
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I would spool it with mono then use a double albright knot to attach one of the 8 strand braids to the mono backing.
It floats making it easy to mend, it is high visibilty, and is much more abrasion resistant.
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Whats the point of the braid backing? If you stick 100 yards of mono on there, you wont even see it all that often. Typically people do it the other way around - use a bunch of mono backing, then 100 yards of braid at the end.
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Due to the fact that most braided lines hold water,not really the best thing to use for chasing steel in sub zero temps.
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I would just use 20 lb mono as backing and leave some room to add on your mainline.
Best knot for mke is a double knot in the end of the backing line and then a regular improved clinch which uses the double knot as a bumper.
It sounds ugly but has never let me down.
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straight mono dont waste your time.
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I just switched my bait caster to 25lb mono backing with about 100yds of powerpro braid on the front. Best decision ever. Casts way nicer and i find you get a much nicer drag free drift when float fishing because my mono was always too kinked and didnt go through the guides smooothly. I dont think it makes sense to use braid as backing because it is pretty expensive and also wont fill up your reel much. I decided to do it this way because the mono is a lot cheaper and if i spooled up all braid i would have like 500yds on it which i think is overkill and not cost effective.
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Due to the fact that most braided lines hold water,not really the best thing to use for chasing steel in sub zero temps.
Power Pro and Power Pro Super8 Slick both float. They don't hold water, and floating line makes it easier to mend on far drifts.
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I have a few 6500 C3's and they all get 200 yards of 12lb Maxima Ultra-Green. Using a backing on this particular levelwind is just adding more things to go wrong at the worst possible time. KISS principle applies here!
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straight mono, its not that expsensive
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Just put straight mono on its cheap. You wont save anything with putting braid which cost more on as a backing. It do needs to be changed.
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I've had the same braid as backing for almost ten years. Just replace the mono once or twice a year as required. Braid doesn't wear out or deteriorate and I don't throw away 200 yards of line that is never off the reel and it gives me almost double the backing if I ever have to use it.
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Dacron
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Power Pro and Power Pro Super8 Slick both float. They don't hold water, and floating line makes it easier to mend on far drifts.
Cool, thanks.
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I've had the same braid as backing for almost ten years. Just replace the mono once or twice a year as required. Braid doesn't wear out or deteriorate and I don't throw away 200 yards of line that is never off the reel and it gives me almost double the backing if I ever have to use it.
How often do you hit your backing. I have had braid rot on me before. I if it gets wet, say when you reel dips into the water. It takes a long time to dry all the way threw. Had a nice fish on and then it hit the backing and peeled about 30 ft off and snapped the line of backing of 50lb braid, when i was using 20 lb mono. then when i was pulling it off it looked to be moldy and it was pretty weak.
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Interesting discussion! :) Braid or dacron backing + mono on the "business end," or mono backing + braid on the "business end"?
Personally I like having ALL of the line either mono or braid. IMO the connecting knot will never be as strong as the breaking strength of either line, and it would really suck to have the fish of a lifetime on and your line breaks right at this connection :o However fly lines are always connected by loop-to-loop knots, nail knots, etc and that doesn't seem to be a problem for fly fishermen.
IMO if you are hell bent of combining mono + braid/dacron to save $ then put whichever line you like to fish on the "business end." For example the originator of this thread likes to fish 12 lb mono, so in this case I'd use however many yards of braid/dacron then knot it to the mono. If you like to fish braid, then do the opposite.
I have one spinning reel with 20lb Suffix 832 braid (awesome braid BTW). It does seem a bit pointless that I spent $50 or whatever it was to put 300+ yards on the spool and most of it will never be off the reel. If I were to do it again I'd consider using mono backing and 100 yards or so of braid at the end. However if that knot was ever off the reel and in the water I'd be a bit nervous about it busting ???
I have a bit (75 yards or so) of this braid left I'd like to use on another baitcaster for fishing spoons/spinners. For chucking metal I prefer the feel of braid over mono. There is definitley not enough line to fill the spool. What would you guys reccomend for backing? Mono or dacron?
And how about knots? I've heard the modified albright is arguably the best for mono to braid, but not sure about dacron to braid. And how about adding a little bit of UV knot glue to the knot for added strength?
I agree that the KISS princpal is the smartest practice, but sometimes a guy needs to save a few bucks, esp with xmas around the corner :o
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Just another thought...I have seen several center-pin fishermen who have a good amount of backing on their reel first (dacron I assume) then 100yards or whatever of mono. Also looks cool if the side of the reel has holes so you can see the backing. So it can be done.
IMO if a reel holds crap loads of line in the test you are using (say over 300 yards) it is a waste of line and $ to replace it ALL when the first 75 or so yards is worn out. Esp is you are spooling up with more expensive mono like UG. However on my smaller baitcasters I wouldn't worry about this and normally just run all mono and replace when I've cut back to the point where I'm nolonge happy with the amount of line remaining on the reel.
AS an alternative to UGn try Pline CXX-Xtra strong. IMO as good as UG for mainline but cheaper.
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Love all the different opinions that have been offered up. I think you nailed it Spawnsack.....the KISS rule does apply here. I am going to just load up the reel with mono, and go fishing. Some times I can be a real cheapskate! Trying to save a few bucks at the expense of losing a fish just doesn't seem like good value anymore. I fish to relax, so I don't need to be worrying whether my line is going to break or not.
Trout Bum
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Haha I hear ya I can be the same way at times ::) For steelheading I would not mess around and just go straight mono and forget the added cost. However for salmon I'd experiment with your idea I think it could work out well esp for reels with lots of line capacity. If you lose a pink or coho or two, who cares? Better to have it fail there than on a steelhead you've been casting all darn day to hook.
GordJ: What knot do you use to connect your backing to the mono?
As I stated before I'm looking to connect braid to backing of some sort (dacron I imagine) as I don't have enough 20lb Suffix 832 left to fill the reel I have in mind. Any knot tips would be appreciated.
Typhoon: Is the double albright the same as the modified albright?
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Haha I hear ya I can be the same way at times ::) For steelheading I would not mess around and just go straight mono and forget the added cost. However for salmon I'd experiment with your idea I think it could work out well esp for reels with lots of line capacity. If you lose a pink or coho or two, who cares? Better to have it fail there than on a steelhead you've been casting all darn day to hook.
GordJ: What knot do you use to connect your backing to the mono?
As I stated before I'm looking to connect braid to backing of some sort (dacron I imagine) as I don't have enough 20lb Suffix 832 left to fill the reel I have in mind. Any knot tips would be appreciated.
Typhoon: Is the double albright the same as the modified albright?
No. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxhDxewFPWc
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I wouldn't be worry about joying two lines and failure of the knot. First you can use knot enforcing glue secondly as all main line is pulled out of reel there is so much stretch/flexibility that tension on the knot is not as high as on the initial meters of said line. Then there is also all fly fishing experience that does not support knot failure fears.
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I wouldn't be worry about joying two lines and failure of the knot. First you can use knot enforcing glue secondly as all main line is pulled out of reel there is so much stretch/flexibility that tension on the knot is not as high as on the initial meters of said line. Then there is also all fly fishing experience that does not support knot failure fears.
If you are using braid for you main line, there is very very little stretch.
That said, good knots hold fine. I used a uni-to-uni for tying my mono backing to braid main line because I couldn't get a modified Albright to hold.
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Thanks for that Typhoon, I'll have to watch the video later as Youtube won't run at work >:(
The reel I'm looking to spool up doesn't have huge line capacity (Calcutta 201) but as I said earlier I have enough 20lb braid to suffice for the line that I will be casting, I just need something to serve as backing to fill up the spool.
Do ya'll think i'd be better off to go with mono or darcon? I'm going to say dacron as I don't think going with mono lighter than 20lb would be smart (less breaking strength than braid) and 20lb mono would fill this little spool up in a hurry.
I'll watch the Utube vid later from typhoon. Can anyone advise me on the best knot(s) for connecting braid to dacron? I know in the fly shops they often use two nails knots when connecting dacron backing to fly line.
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GordJ: What knot do you use to connect your backing to the mono?
Just a simple double surgeons knot. I don't understand why so many people are concerned about knots and "keeping it simple" when there are hundreds of posts about tying up leaders, fly lines to tippets, etc, etc. Surely a knot between braid and mono isn't too complicated?
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You're probably right. It's called killing time and chatting about fishing. Look into it.
Personally I find there are SO many good knots out there it's good to occasionally learn a new one, and most of them I've picked up on this site. For example the modified albright for mono to braid. I used to use the uni-to-uni but on occasion had it fail, then learned the MA knot and have had no issues with it.
I've never heard of anyone connecting braid to dacron and there is probably a best knot, some decent ones, and a few to avoid.
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You're probably right. It's called killing time and chatting about fishing. Look into it.
Personally I find there are SO many good knots out there it's good to occasionally learn a new one, and most of them I've picked up on this site. For example the modified albright for mono to braid. I used to use the uni-to-uni but on occasion had it fail, then learned the MA knot and have had no issues with it.
I've never heard of anyone connecting braid to dacron and there is probably a best knot, some decent ones, and a few to avoid.
Yeah, I tried the albright, 'cause it beat the Uni to Uni on Knot Wars... but I couldn't get it to snug up and stay together, it just kept slipping on me. I seem to use the uni knot for practically everything, its a pretty damn versatile knot, and I dont have to remember how to tie anything else.
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You're probably right. It's called killing time and chatting about fishing. Look into it.
Sorry, I thought that was what I was doing.
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Power Pro and Power Pro Super8 Slick both float. They don't hold water, and floating line makes it easier to mend on far drifts.
Not sure about PP super8 slick as I have never tried it, but regular PP most definately holds water, and quite a bit of it. After fishing PP for years now there's no way I could go back to mono for the vast majority of my fishing. I just brought a mono set up to the T last wknd for spooning. Saturday was too cold and I had to use it to fish spoons, but Sunday was a few degrees warmer. I gave up on the mono set up after the first run, but on Sunday when it was a few degrees warmer I could use my braid set up. The could cast at least twice as far with the braid, a major advantage on a huge river like the T. The pros FAR out weigh the cons, even in cost. I filled my 6500 the other day with 50 (or 65?) PP and it cost me just over or just under $15 at freds. This will last for at least three years. I always use a leader, wether fishing spoons and spinners for coho, spoons for steelhead or float fishing for steelhead or salmon. 10' of 10-20LB UG for hardware and 15' of 20LB UG for my float rig. That way I almost never break my mainline. I use heavier braid because it is way more manageable IMO. Getting a backlash out with super thin 20lb braid is brutal IMO....with 50-65 it takes two seconds. You'll spend five times more $ on mono over three years, and have no where near the sensitivity, longevity or durability. Its only downfall really is freeze up in cold weather. I have been thinking of rigging up a set up with the cold weather/no freeze type braids available. In the mainland sub zero temps pretty well only happen in late November and december with the odd day in January. I'm done Coho by late November and don't fish early steelhead much but if I wanted to have other set ups available. Try it and you'll never go back
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Just a simple double surgeons knot. I don't understand why so many people are concerned about knots and "keeping it simple" when there are hundreds of posts about tying up leaders, fly lines to tippets, etc, etc. Surely a knot between braid and mono isn't too complicated?
Your post came across as a tad arrogant, seeming to suggest that I should do some research instead of asking redundant questions. You are right, I'm sure my question had been asked before, but one thing I really like about this site is most guys will just give you an honest answer instead of saying "look it up." I post replies/answers all the time to questions that have been asked over and over, and if the person did 10 minutes of searching they'd probably find the answer in past threads. I find it easier to just give them an answer they can read in their own thread than to tell them to look it up. Anyway, it's possible I got the wrong intention, so I apologize for being a bit snappy. Hung over from craft beer festival last night in Chillwack...ugh. Fishing forums = great way to kill time when weather is crap outside :)
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I am not sure why it came across as suggesting research. I was commenting on the "keep it simple" posts that suggested (in my opinion) that having braid as backing and mono as "running line" was adding a degree of complication that could cause problems.
I meant to refer to all the other set ups we use to suggest that one more knot wouldn't add a degree of complication that should preclude considering this set up.
And I did not suggest research but I did say that I have been utilizing the double surgeon knot for quite a while and I should add that have never had an issue, either on my 20 lb. mono to 30 lb. braid or my 30 lb. mono to 40 lb. braid. If I am particularly anal I will tie the occasional triple surgeon, especially if I think that springs are likely.
I switched to this setup after an experience with bad mono. Rather than buying 250 m's of Maxima every year I now get 100m's and don't have to throw away the 150m's of line, that only gets to feel water a few times a year (and the last 50m never leaves the ree), which means a lot less line in the garbage. I am no eco freak and I wouldn't have to go hungry to buy new line but it makes no sense, either financial or ecologically, to me, to do this when I can spool up 250m's of braid every 10 years or so and 100m's of mono instead of 250m's yearly and only throw 100m's in the trash rather than 250 m's each year.