Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: chris gadsden on August 30, 2004, 12:24:01 AM
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The Fraser panel reported last that of the 194,000 Early Stuarts that entered the Fraser River only 7,000 of these Sockeye have reached the spawning grounds. :(
You can see by these figures how effective the netting that went on during their migration period was, mostly by illegal nets.
Wouldn't it be great if FOC was doing their job and stopping this abuse of these fish by illegal fisning. Maybe this run that has been struggling the last while could maybe be built up to where it should be.
This why the work the SDA is attempting to do is so important if we are going to protect our fish in the Fraser River.
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HOLY HECK! :o >:(
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>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Chris, over the past few months I have grown to "know" you thru your postings and I can tell that you are extremely intouch with what is going on with our precious resource and that your information is more often than not dead on accurate.
My question is how do you know illegal nets played the main roll in the fact that only 7000 stuarts made it back? Does the Fraser Panel agree with you? How many did sport/commercial/native food fishery take all tolled???
Like I said I trust your information, I would like to know the basis of this last posting tho.
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These are very sad and alarming stats. The finger pointing has got to stop and everyone deal with this and other very serious threats to this precious resource.
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Yes I agree a person has to be very careful when throwing around figures and surmising what has happened.
However when you see all the netting going on like I do on the Fraser as I am out there so much and have almost daily contact with others that are out there you can get a pretty good idea what has happened
to a lot of these fish.
Althought it was after the ES had passed through when we flew in the copter 3 weeks ago and we counted 319 nets from the mouth of the Sumas to Sawmill Creek and many hundreds more rec anglers you wonder how any fish could get it through at all.
As reported by some posters early they were noting a high percentage of the fish they caught had net marks on them as well.
Of interest the protest fish that was taken had escaped from a net by the look of the marks on it.
Back To the Es topic
During the ES run FOC allowed legal opening as well and we know illegal netting was going on during the closed to times also.
Now with the river now closed to netting now, illegal netting is going was going on this weekend both drift and set.
The Thompson coho will soon be in the river now as well, will they suffer the same fate as the ES? They will if FOC does not change their management policies.
Remember what happened to the East Coast Fish stocks. Who let things get to the state they are there now?
I and the SDA is just trying to bring up the awarenness level to those interested so to try and protect our precious salmon.
We do not want a repeat performance here on the West Coast.
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Fraser River only 7,000 of these Sockeye have reached the spawning grounds.
:o
We cannot avoid the signs....... >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Thats absoloutly sickening :o
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Chris,
Has the DFO given a official reason for thir inaction?
This is unreal, will they continue through Thompson Coho?, Vedder coho? Chums and Whites? .
Why?
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At some of the meetings I was at FOC said it takes a while to get all FN fishers to come on board with the new agreements that were signed this year but they were working on it. ???
Also when the fishing was closed some of the FN netters that were still fishing said they had not seen the notice. ::) ??? ???
However when a rec angler takes an illegal fish they are right there with the ticket book at the ready, although of course we would have been disappointed if they didnot show up. :D
Doing a little phoning around today I was told set and drift nets were still active so FOC continues selective enforcement or none at all.
So important we keep OB going to get the Federal Government to get the department to enforce the fishery act or the fish will be disappearing from our rivers. :(
If at all possible try to join us on the 7th.
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The Fraser River Panel reported last that of the 194,000 Early Stuarts that entered the Fraser River only 7,000 of these Sockeye have reached the spawning grounds. :(
I assume this info was received from a meeting which invovled someone from FRP. I have checked out the recent escapement info and couldn't find anything that would state only 7k have reached the spawning grounds and what was the targeted returning numbers.
But I do know that I stated last week FRP/PSC screwed up their summer run interm forecasts before it was posted today.... so these numbers could be correct. :-\
We as stakeholders of the resource can only try to pry the incoming (poor) escapement figures out of FOC (through possible inside contacts) or sit back and wait until the final figures are tallied and released. Which you and I won't be able to officially review on FOC's site until early (Jan/Feb.) Which IMO is to late for letting the $hit hit the fan, for what I believe was a terrible job of looking after these resources this past season. But then, FOC does have a good scapegoat in poor water levels and temperature.
Here's PSC's latest update:
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/xnet/content/fns/index.cfm?pg=view_notice&lang=en&DOC_ID=74116&ID=recreational
Interesting that this is posted in the commercial and recreational fisheriey notices but not on the Aboriginal Fishery Notices. :-\
I makes me wonder, when only 56% of your targeted escapement goal for summer run sockeye have passed Mission, and we know fisheries continue on the Fraser, yet the FRP is obstaining from further in-season meetings with PSC until their January post-season review. WHY? Budget? Who's looking after what remaining sockeye enter the Fraser or is there any? What about the North Thompson coho? Has PSC given FRP any indications of a run? I haven't seen it.
Absolutely pathetic. It would be like farmer Brown having a fox in the hen house, but waiting till spring to do something. ???
Everyone don'ty get me wrong....I'm not jumping on the FN as the problem, nor the commercial boys or rec. This one sits squarely in FOC's lap.
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Excellent post as usual Bantam_50, very good info for all of us.
I will e-mail you the report from Bill re the ES who did and I believe still sits on the on the Fraser Panel.
We have good contacts to get the information and I feel the info we obtain is usually correct.
The bottom line is we know FOC has badly mismanaged the fishery this year and the SDA will continue to work to make them accountable.
Thanks again for the post
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The Fraser River Panel reported last that of the 194,000 Early Stuarts that entered the Fraser River only 7,000 of these Sockeye have reached the spawning grounds. :(
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Absolutely pathetic. It would be like farmer Brown having a fox in the hen house, but waiting till spring to do something. ???
Everyone don'ty get me wrong....I'm not jumping on the FN as the problem, nor the commercial boys or rec. This one sits squarely in FOC's lap.
Bantam, you got that right. Wish I said that. With so many numbers bandied about by different sources the situation appears to be absolutely hopeless.Can't remember where I read this about an estimated 1 million sockeye may not reach their spawning grounds due to high water temperature. That is really appalling. Will the last sockeye please turn out the lights. In spite of FN's overfishing during this critical period there is added fuel to the fire when some spokesperson for the Commies voicing their complaint that they were not allowed to harvest more fish assuming the high mortality rate.... thus putting more pressure on the FOC.
Other than a miraculous awakening by FOC in their fish management policy the Sporties will remain feeding off the scraps from the banquet table.
The most logical solution to this dilemma IMHO is to banish the word "GREED" in this equation.
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Bushwacker
The SDA will continue to make FOC accountable for their management policies or non management of the Fisheries on the Fraser River.
The sorry part is they are not answering the e-mails some of us are now sending.
Has anyone that sent letters to Regan or others heard a reply, I have not. ::)
I sent one a week ago, a follow up yesterday to a FOC Manager and no replies so far so they are hoping we will just quietly go away. They do not seem to releaze by not answering people's letters it just makes things worse for them as more people become angry all the time.
They are in for a surprise as we have lots of resolve in trying to save our fish that for some reason refuse to do so.
We hope to have a good turnout on the 7th to show the Federal Government the recreational fisher in British Columbia is a group not to be taken lightly.
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no reply for me.
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Here's some fascinating reading on the history of management of the Fraser River stocks. I know there's not much point living in the past but most of the issues remain unresolved.
The inquiry's purpose was to find out why there was no commercial fishery on the Fraser in 2001. But the whole issue of DFO/FOC enforcement, native allocations etc. is discussed in detail. The testimony includes fishermen, industry reps, DFO senior beauraucrats, natives, and our own Bill Otway.
The testimony takes a few hours to go through but I find it very interesting (particularly as an ex-commercial fisherman). If you only have a few minutes check out the final report. It summarizes the testimony and makes several recommendations, which of course have been ignored.
Final Report
http://www.parl.gc.ca/InfoComDoc/37/2/FOPO/Studies/Reports/foporp06/foporp06-e.pdf
Nov 19 2001 evidence - fishermen & industry
http://www.parl.gc.ca/InfoComDoc/37/1/FOPO/Meetings/Evidence/fopoev31-e.htm
Feb 19 2002 evidence - DFO grilling part 1
http://www.parl.gc.ca/InfoComDoc/37/1/FOPO/Meetings/Evidence/fopoev39-e.htm
May 6 2002 evidence - DFO grilling part 2, area E gillnetters
http://www.parl.gc.ca/InfoComDoc/37/1/FOPO/Meetings/Evidence/fopoev49-e.htm
May 29, 2002 - native viewpoint
http://www.parl.gc.ca/InfoComDoc/37/1/FOPO/Meetings/Evidence/fopoev54-e.htm
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Good stuff Reach and thanks for sharing it with us.
Always good to have information like this as it is always useful.
Having members able to find things like this is almost unbelievable. Anyone else with similar info please share.
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Uh oh, my printer ran out of ink!
Thanks Reach, very informative. :)
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Man talk about going against your own grain....thnx Reach, very interesting read.
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Anyone recall that public meeting just a few years ago chaired by Brian Peckford, the former premier of Newfoundland . Actually there were a series of meetings held at different locations regarding the same sockeye problem faced today.The one I attended was held in Chwk at Best Western Rainbow Country Inn.
For those who signed in we got a copy of Mr. Peckford's study recommendations which comprised of several dozen pages of heavy reading and lots of statistical information. With all due respect to Mr.Peckford who knows more than most people about the crash of the Atlantic cod fishery, I have to give him a lot of credit in producing his fact finding work.Now we have essentially the same problem repeating all over again.
So how many more studies do we need funded by long suffering taxpayers and possible (?) increases in angling licence fees imposed by a bureaucracy surviving on the brink of rigor mortis willing to show some decisive action in the sustainability of better fish management and a fair allocation to all stakeholders.
Got to end this rant. Aaaargh! >:( >:( >:(
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Hi Bantam, I'm not going against any grain... I've always thought that if the fishery were managed properly, there will be plenty of fish for all user groups. In the north, for the most part, sports and commercial have gotten along just fine, and are actively involved with DFO in an advisory capacity to help manage the Skeena system.
The native-only fisheries have caused such a deep divide here on the Fraser that it might take a generation or more to heal. The "us and them" mentality I see here is really sad. I wish DFO could understand the implications not only for fisheries but for society as a whole. They really are promoting apartheid. You could even think they were deliberately following a "divide and conquer" strategy for some hidden purpose, but I don't think they're that smart.
p.s. I apologize for my massacre of "bureaucrats". :)
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Is FN doing a better job in the Propaganda War?
http://www.chilliwacktimes.com/issues02/082202/news/082202nn2.html
On another thread there was some dissatisfaction regarding Mike Chouinard's poor coverage in the Chilliwack Times of the recent PegLeg fishing protest. Don't want to raise anyone's hackles but just want to add my .02 worth as constructive criticism with no offence meant.
Now we have another protest in the works for a Kelowna gathering. The point I'm getting at is why was Mike C. shunned as a pariah when he could be used to better advantage in the same way Lisa Morry was used by FN to get their side of the story. The way I see it is to use elementary psychology to shape their behaviour as a "friendly"to promote your cause. Local reporters don't have ESP to understand all the issues and normally will regurgitate what they've been told. I believe that was a lost opportunity by an organizer of the forthcoming Kelowna bash.Maybe this one will have a great script and turn out well with no one getting pepper sprayed.
I took part in a large protest a few years ago blocking the FOC office in Yale Rd, Chwk. with at least 200 people there including Strahl, Penner, DeJong, FVSS, tacke shops, guides,etc. Turned out to be another symbolic showing.
Still believe you have to have the media to be onside, otherwise the general public will react to be equivalent to a bunch of tree huggers, PETA, union demonstration,etc.
Wish you all good luck !
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LOL...Sorry reach...I should have been more elaborate. I wasn't referring to you, but to DFO and the recommedations they set out in that read,,,,yet it seems they're going against THEIR own grain and ignoring all of them.