Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: Navy Seal Fisherman on August 31, 2010, 08:22:39 PM
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Hi all, had a thought I wanted to throw out your way. Let's say you hook a sockeye or a spring in the dorsal. By the time you bring it close enough to unhook and release it, you have inadvertently hurt it knowing it will not survive. By law you release it, only to hook and land a healthy fish a few casts later. Now, you have killed two fish. Would it not have been better to land the 1st fish and not to have caught the 2ND fish?. A philosophical question. your thoughts appreciated.
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Hi all, had a thought I wanted to throw out your way. Let's say you hook a sockeye or a spring in the dorsal. By the time you bring it close enough to unhook and release it, you have inadvertently hurt it knowing it will not survive. By law you release it, only to hook and land a healthy fish a few casts later. Now, you have killed two fish. Would it not have been better to land the 1st fish and not to have caught the 2ND fish?. A philosophical question. your thoughts appreciated.
It's a meat fishery... keep what you catch and then go home.
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Would it not have been better to land the 1st fish and not to have caught the 2ND fish?.
Would it have been better to have not killed two fish? Sure. But it's also the law, so it is what it is.
I understand your question is from a philisophical standpoint, but just stating the facts.
:)
Tex
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I think if you legally allow anyone to keep a foul hooked fish for any reason it may open up some sort of loophole to allow full fledged intentional snagging. Unfortunately, with thousands of fish passing you at any given moment, it's only a matter of time before your hook point find's somewhere on a fish aside from it's mouth.
I'd be curious to see if circle hooks improve the amount of fouled fish compared to the typical J hook or even the modified circle hook.
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I was about to respond to Tex when BBarley responded. There are 2 primary questions in play, as I see it, with more as an off shoot. The legality is one, and should the law change. Would it create some more loop holes?...perhaps. A thought may be limit a total number of fish caught per licence. After all, how many fish can we actually eat or give away. I have no ceremonies to worry about, except maybe Good Friday. The conservation of our fish is the other is the other primary question. Does it really make sense to let a dieing fish go to catch another one that will spawn...another two 12 hour gill net openings within Map E (Fraser River). How many more fish do we really need to catch and put on the market. If it's a meat fishery as Alwaysfishn suggests, does it then matter how a fish is caught? hook, snag or gill net?
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I have no idea what goes on in the backrooms where DFO and PSC come to their conclusion on how to manage the fishery, so take this is just my opinion and nothing more.
The way I think about it, fisheries managers, commercial fishermen, aboriginals, sports fishermen should be more than happy. This year the Fraser was blessed with a huge return of sockeye and it seems like most people are generally happy with the return.
Now, the reality of what's really happening. User groups are hard at it to take their allocation of this wonderful bounty. It's the gold rush mentality that hasn't changed and probably will never change. Go read some news articles, all of a sudden these backroom scientists are coming up with reports of overspawning disaster, disease break outs, blah blah blah. It gets to a point where you seriously have to sit down and ask yourself if you feel like god.....
Anyway, my nightly incoherent ramble is done.
My take on foul hooking fish is this, if I foul hook only one fish, I will change my tactics to minimize the chance of this happening again, even if it means packing it in for the day. I haven't foul hooked one fish this year and don't plan on it any time soon :)
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You you must be aware 99% of the sockeye that are taken are foul kooked, that's why its called flossing, hook in the hinge. Just use a bare hook, it will take fish just as well. :-X
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You you must be aware 99% of the sockeye that are taken are foul kooked, that's why its called flossing, hook in the hinge. Just use a bare hook, it will take fish just as well. :-X
I have to disagree........ I think it's only 98%. ;D
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Navy Seal...I absolutlely understand your idea that it is silly to release a fish that will die to go hook another one that may live. #1 you dont know it that fish will die or not and #2, you can't apply the law when you think its best.
This whole meat fishery is BS. Oh ya its a meat fishery so its OK to snag fish, its of to keep fish hooked in the belly, there lots, its a gold rush, who cares...
So I would say when I fish the vedder for chums, coho, ans whites that there are lots around...I can catch them on jigs, blades, roe, whatever. What about guys who see all these fish and can't fairly induce a bite...they line up with all the other snaggers and beaks at all the meat holes and line fish. Who decided what is and isn't a meet fishery...I haven't heard DFO calling one fishy or another by that name so we are left with INDIVIDUAL FISHERS making personal decision now as to what is or isnt a meat fishery, when it is or isnt acceptable to keep a snagged fish, etc, etc. Look at the wiki definition of Anarchy:A social state in which there is no governing person or group of people, but each individual has absolute liberty. Look at the bars a pegleg etc, the disregard for the regs, fellow fisher, and fish and I think you will find the fraser floss fishery is pretty much anarchy. no two ways about it and it creates a disregard for the regs and the resource over a wide range of fisheries.
We need to separate the fraser sockeye run from sport fishing. it needs to be managed under a different system, call it food harvest, call it a meat fishery, call it sustinance fishing, whatever. Just stop calling it and managing it as a sport fishery.
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Gooey, I think your last paragraph,
"We need to separate the Fraser sockeye run from sport fishing. it needs to be managed under a different system, call it food harvest, call it a meat fishery, call it sustenance fishing, whatever. Just stop calling it and managing it as a sport fishery."
sums it up perfectly. It certainly is no sport with everything that we see going on, on the Fraser.. Apply the chinook rules to it. Bag 10-20 or whatever the harvest allows for, record your catch and be done with it.
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...and no more of this B*** S***, I going to try and get my springs now... Make flossing ILLIGAL outside of a special sustinance licence for sockeye (if you hit a spring, lucky you), divide the sport allocation by the number of lisences sold, allow them to take an allocation as quickly as possible, record each fish hooked (time/date location), don't have it on paper you can photo copy like the licences now as people will without a doubt photocpy spares and then double dip, allow snagged fish, and charge a fee to administer the program and increase enforcement during that time.
I would pay $50 to have an allotment? 10-20 fish would be resonable I'd say.
Oh, put 3 foot leader restrictions into the fresh water fishing regs and change the defiinition of a foul hooked fish to something like: any fish that was not induce to strike the presentation and take the hook inside its mouth.
sounds like a plan to me! who do we need to talk to to get this thing going ;)
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...and no more of this B*** S***, I going to try and get my springs now... Make flossing ILLIGAL outside of a special sustinance licence for sockeye (if you hit a spring, lucky you), divide the sport allocation by the number of lisences sold, allow them to take an allocation as quickly as possible, record each fish hooked (time/date location), don't have it on paper you can photo copy like the licences now as people will without a doubt photocpy spares and then double dip, allow snagged fish, and charge a fee to administer the program and increase enforcement during that time.
I would pay $50 to have an allotment? 10-20 fish would be resonable I'd say.
Oh, put 3 foot leader restrictions into the fresh water fishing regs and change the defiinition of a foul hooked fish to something like: any fish that was not induce to strike the presentation and take the hook inside its mouth.
sounds like a plan to me! who do we need to talk to to get this thing going ;)
Could be some good ideas there, however thank goodness the folks that administer this, do so from a practical perspective. The more rules that you write and can't enforce, the more of a joke the rules become.... Where are you going to get the manpower at that time to provide extra enforcement? This is the busiest time of the year for CO's just watching the natives let alone trying to watch the thousands of sporties fishing on over 100 km of river....
As far as the extra $50, you can go ahead and pay it. :D I've already paid for my privilege to catch some sockeye....
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I read all these opinions about the ethics of BB. I am wondering if all of the people here that dont agree with BB are as opinionated about the rest of there food choices. Do you only by organic food that was grown within 100 kms of your home? Do you buy eggs , chicken, beef etc from your neighbor that tells you no hormones have been added. How do you know? or do you grow everything yourself?
I am just curious as to the extent of your ethics?
Dont get me wrong I believe organic food and local food is better for you but can everybody afford it is the true question.
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Why not just allow a "Civilian Net Harvest?" Any person can buy a sockeye harvesting license and use a net (like commercial and native fishermen). Then work on regulating the snagging that goes on.
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Why not just allow a "Civilian Net Harvest?" Any person can buy a sockeye harvesting license and use a net (like commercial and native fishermen). Then work on regulating the snagging that goes on.
Do you really want to see that much netting in the river, knowing how much garbage people leave behind as it stands?
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do yourselves all a favor and read up on how Alaska manages their inriver sockeye fishing...I think the Russian River was one I was reading up on. There are angling licences and there is a food harvest licence. UNder the food harvest a home owner is allowed 20 sockes plus 10 per family member...thats pretty much it. no extra rules alwaysfish. in fact a common tactic is to put your landig net into the water off the front of you boat, drive down river and scoop em up. Not THATS a food fishery!
I would not do that, I would angle them but thats is an example of Alaska's food fishery.
Luder your commets don't make sense. If I do or dont want hormones or pesticides used in the production of the food I consumer, that my own personal business. Snaggin/flossing is illegal.. has nothing to do with my own personal preference. PS - the person who start the post on ethical or not regarfin bottom bouncing did so under the assumption that because people don't get ticketed for it, its LEAGL...thats is an inaccurate place to start his debate. CO's don't enforce the law (partly due to flimsy regs) and other issue that take priority. A better analogy is runnig a deer over in a truck to take for food (assuming taking road kill is illegal)...thats a more accurrate analogy to flossing.
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Hi all, had a thought I wanted to throw out your way. Let's say you hook a sockeye or a spring in the dorsal. By the time you bring it close enough to unhook and release it, you have inadvertently hurt it knowing it will not survive. By law you release it, only to hook and land a healthy fish a few casts later. Now, you have killed two fish. Would it not have been better to land the 1st fish and not to have caught the 2ND fish?. A philosophical question. your thoughts appreciated.
What I do in the aforesaid scenario is to point the tip of the rod at the fish and break it off as soon as I realize that it is foul-hooked (which is usually in the first few seconds of playing it). Why would anyone play through a fish hooked in the dorsal (or anywhere but the mouth) is beyond me. It's taxing on the gear, on the fisherman, and last, but not least, on the poor critter.
Just break the fish off (which, incidentally, is the main reason our leaders are lighter than our main line). It never ceases to amaze me how many bozos snap their main lines on snagged fish or bottom. ::)
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a couple of ideas. ..
sockeye stamp, annual quota (similiar to steelhead) and maximum leader lengths.
no, co's prob won't be able to enforce all laws to a "t", but there are still a few noble fisherman out there who bide by the rules. unfortunately as bb fishery goes, for every harvester who abides by 2 fish limit etc...there's one or two who feel obliged to poach because it is common place.
and this "it's a meat fishery, so who cares about methods". etc....this is a scary mentality because with this excuse any moron can go bottom bounce coho, steelhead or whatever, and just say, "I'm keeping it anyways, so who cares".
could you imagine ALL these flossers on other systems employing the same methods?