Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: buck on November 06, 2005, 08:22:57 AM
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If you thought there were few coho in the Vedder river this year you would be right. To date we have only had 3900 fish return to the hatchery compared to 10,500 during the same time frame last year. Last year also was not great with only 22k returning to the rack. Observations of wild coho spawning in the upriver tributaries are poor. Where did all the fish go?
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I knew there was something fishy or a guess you would say, not to fishy going on there!!!! ;D ;D Well Buck, I am still holding out a little bit of hope that they are still coming. I was at the Chehalis hatchery yesterday and we only say maybe 300 coho in the hatchery channel. In very recent years past, there was three times as many fish in that channel buy now. So I am still holding out some hope that they are just a bit late!!!! My worst fear is that the water temp in the ocean has dramatically affected to mortality rate of the fish. Which also brings up a bit of a worry on how the steelhead are going to handle this change in temp as well. One other thought, is it possible that netting of the Fraser has gone so unchecked by dfo that it has had a big impact on the coho as well? I know that this one is a bit farfetched, but we know that the firstnations go pretty much unchecked. Also is there a chance the there is netting being done from native land on the chehalis. Only reason I ask is because I have heard this echoed from many fisherman in the last couple of days. Last weekend, there were a lot of hos around, this weekend, not much of any. Same thing happened last year. This rather strange phenomenon only seemed to start happening after the river mysteriously change direction. :( :(
Well that turned into a much longer post then I expected. So I will stop the babble!!!! ;D ;D
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I've been fishing the Chehalis for the last 6 seasons and I would tend to agree with Big Steel. The inconsistent coho numbers seemed to occur more dramatically as the river changed its course. I heard other anglers speculating that the river will be returned to its original course next year. Is there any validity to this? Anyway - I also think that the reason why the hatchery has fewer fish is that most of the fish are traveling up on the other side (native land) where there is more water.
As for the Vedder/Chilliwack system - I too hope they are just late.
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I hope that too :o
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Well I didnt exactly end up going. Lots of squa fish at buntzen though
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it's possible that siltation during heavy rain and high water after the spawn may have damaged or killed a lot of coho fry and eggs in the chilliwack/vedder , but that doesn't explain poor hatchery coho return. It's either very poor migration/ocean survival or cutbacks in production by hatcheries. Of which i have no proof of either.
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Even if the coho are bypassing the hatchery run the numbers in the canyon pools are a pittance compared to previous years. If you go into the canyon now just expect to get good exercise because there aren't very many ho's. Like the majority of fishemen out there I think most of the ho's ended up in the nets. Just go look at the mouth of the Harrison.
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im sad about he coho i have been looking forward to its since like last januray :'( there late i know it
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There is always a late run of coh in the Vedder and the Chehalis, but those numbers are in the few thousands. We know the early run has gone through fine but what happened to the main run, you know, the 30 to 40,000 that's supposed to be in the river? I like to be optimistic as the next guy and say they are late, but I think they have vanished like the million sockeyes last year. Also there were some large coho in the teens early part of the season but the ones lately have been all 3 to 5lb clones, and very few in the 8 to 10lb range.
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Big Steel
Ocean survival rates are most likely to blame for the poor coho returns this year but the commercial catch has gone up from 13,895 in 2001 to 414,518 in 2005. I think this is coast wide and I'm not sure what the impact would be on the Chilliwack stock. This does not include sport caught fish or fish taken by first nations. It all has an accumulative effect. As far as steelhead returns are concerned we'll just have to wait and see. If they follow the survival rates for coho, fishing could be dismal. Exploitation rates for coho seem to be on the increase. So much for protecting wild coho stocks! On a more positive note steelhead returns to the Thompson River appear to be up this year.
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So Buck: some of those figures you are relaying to us especially with regards to the increase of the commercial catch for Coho is shocking. If this trend for Coho salmon continues on the Vedder, does this mean that there could be some serious changes with regards to retention rates, and angling methods. Because if you use the Thompson River as an example, their regulations are very stringent and according to your figures the Steelhead population looks to be on the road to recovery. Or am I going down the wrong path? Is it perhaps something that all sectors such as Government, Commercial Fishing, Sport fishing and Native fishing have to sit down and map out a plan so that the Coho stock can recover.
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What about fish farms? maybe alot of the coho are comming out to the ocean past fish farms and having some sea lice problams. Isant that becoming a bigger problem here now because of the fish farm expansions?
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Buck, was 2005 stock size estimate done by fry estimate when they were heading out? Who does that? Is there an expected return number available? I guess we'll have to wait until the season is over, until the fry estimate is done next year to get a good idea on how bad the return is.
Floater, the sea lice mainly causes problems on juvenile fish that are ocean bound. Sea lice on returning adults is not so much an issue.
Possibly survivorship during smoltification?
Interception of commercial openings? Can't analysis be done on DNA samples taken from test fisheries like how sockeye fisheries are managed to avoid this?
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Exactly like i said fish going out to the ocean. ;)
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It's more of an issue with pink rather than coho. Pinks enter the ocena at a much smaller size, hence are much more susseptable to sea lice. Also, sea lice is a concern where fish farms are within close proximity to river mouths so it's possible that fish farms are affecting certain stocks but they certainly would not be having any affect on LM stocks.
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I dont know if you can say "certainly" but who knows.
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Sorry, I misread, been looking at fish all day. ;)
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I look at fish all day every day. :P
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BTW, did anybody catch the hour show on Alexandra Morton's work? It was on the Knowledge Network last night. It was a beautiful and shocking program. I've read some article written by her on the sea lice problems in the vicinity of these fish farms, but seeing the physical evidence and testimony of others was shocking! >:( And the total disregard of the evidence by DFO over the years is unbelievable. It's a show well worth catching.
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BTW, did anybody catch the hour show on Alexandra Morton's work? It was on the Knowledge Network last night. It was a beautiful and shocking program. I've read some article written by her on the sea lice problems in the vicinity of these fish farms, but seeing the physical evidence and testimony of others was shocking! >:( And the total disregard of the evidence by DFO over the years is unbelievable. It's a show well worth catching.
Yes, I saw that as well. I was not very surprised by the goverments disregard for the findings though, as I figure that the goverment has a piece of this in some way. ::) ::)
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Yep i saw that program but its a bit old they need to do an update show to see if anything has changed.
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Rodney
No population estimates were done on wild juvenile smolts from the Vedder River. Hatchery smolts were counted as they were marked into the ponds. We have a standard % loss we apply to the population which accounts for fish taken by predators during rearing. We monitor numerous creeks in the watershed and try to come up with a ball park estimate of the number of spawner's in the watershed. Stock assessment also use " models " to predict the population size in the system.
Downstream trapping of juveniles to access survival rates has been scaled back over the years due to budget cuts.