Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Trout_Bum on December 01, 2013, 10:03:21 AM
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In another thread, an experienced angler...initials JC (hmmmm) mentioned that many of his steelhead were caught in 2' of water along wide fast flowing runs. This is water that I don't usually fish. Maybe that explains why I am not catching fish. I typically look for walking speed runs or pools. Those are the same pieces of water everyone else fishes.
Does anyone else fish skinny water, and if so is it simply a case of sliding your float down to the appropriate depth? I usually fish an 18" to 24" leader, so I can see that might be an issue in shallow weather.
Trout Bum (trying to be a steelhead bum)
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All salmon species and steelhead are often found in skinny water close to shore. If you think about it, if there's nothing posing a danger to them, why should they waste energy holding in faster deep water. Howevet during brighter days or if there os heavy fishing pressure then of course they will move deeper. Especially with Steelhead you really want to cover both types of water. That's the only way you're gonna catch fish. I caught two Steelhead a couple of years back on the fly, one in a few inches of water at the head of a run and the other in a deep pool. So they do hold in both types of water.
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Fish will hold ANYWHERE they can get a bit of a break from the main flow.
This often means the sides, especially if there is no structure to provide a slow spot, and the bottom is relatively smooth (rough bottoms cause slow spots at the bottom.)
Water flow is all about friction. Friction causes the water to slow down... And this friction is caused by the bottom, the banks, anything in the water (big boulders, logs, ect) and even the air. Typically the fastest part of a flow will be near the middle, a few inches below the surface.
Spots right near the main flow also provide the other thing the fish needs - food supply. Food drifts down the main flow, and from here the fish can dart out, grab it, and move back to slower waters.
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Fish will hold ANYWHERE they can get a bit of a break from the main flow.
This often means the sides, especially if there is no structure to provide a slow spot, and the bottom is relatively smooth (rough bottoms cause slow spots at the bottom.)
Water flow is all about friction. Friction causes the water to slow down... And this friction is caused by the bottom, the banks, anything in the water (big boulders, logs, ect) and even the air. Typically the fastest part of a flow will be near the middle, a few inches below the surface.
Spots right near the main flow also provide the other thing the fish needs - food supply. Food drifts down the main flow, and from here the fish can dart out, grab it, and move back to slower waters.
Best post I've read this month.
Heed the above advise and the fish you seek will be found.
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Yes, all the time, and never overlook the skinny water in any run you fish. Fish that water close to shore first, and do so while you are still back from the bank a bit. After you check that there are no fish holding in tight, you can then move out to the middle of the run.
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Yes, all the time, and never overlook the skinny water in any run you fish. Fish that water close to shore first, and do so while you are still back from the bank a bit. After you check that there are no fish holding in tight, you can then move out to the middle of the run.
Too many times do I get weird looks as I start my first cast 15ft from the waters edge.
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Not as weird as the the looks you get when you hook one. Although I must say that your chances if hooking a steelhead in the skinny water next to shore decreases proportionately with the number of eyes watching you. This is best attempted when you are first to approach a new run. Bank activity will certainly cause most fish to move off into deeper water. Although it cannot hurt to try.
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I have caught steelies in every water type. I even stood 10 feet back from the edge once so I could literally fish the shore edge maybe 1-2feet out, hooked and landed a sizable doe from that water too. I think the only water I haven't caught them in is anything over 5-7feet in depth, I fish it of course because I put a few casts through everything but just can't recall ever hooking one in deeper water.
I still remember this one day helping a gentleman land a monster buck that he hooked in water no more than 18" deep and the water was very clear. Best part was he said he couldn't even see it sitting there behind the only larger boulder.
I have also caught many fish in these very shallow spots behind rocks. Usually not large fish but have always been very explosive ;D
Just remember to constantly be changing your fishing depth as you work through every run and don't pass over any type of water. If its not the greatest looking water then 1-3 casts, move down a bit, repeat............etc is the best strategy. The more water you cover effectively the better and the more success you will get
Best way to learn the river well is to pick a section (couple km's) of river, park at the exit point and walk to where you want to start and fish your way back to your vehicle. Depending on how fast you go this may take only a few hours or a full day so pack a lunch.
Good luck out there
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Never pass up a piece of water!
Two years ago i was standing in approx 12inches of water, working my way down the run, fishing the spot where i usually find them. As i took another step, i heard a splash and looked behind me to see an 8-10~ lb buck thrashing through the 8inches of water behind me. After that, i always make a cast to anything that looks fishy that could conceal the fishes dorsal fin
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Comments are all good. Looks like I have been walking past good water. This season I will be sure to include skinny water on my trips.
What (if anything) do you guys do differently with your float set ups for fishing water that may be only 2' deep. Seems to me the float would be right on top of the weight. I generally use a hollow pencil lead on my main line.
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Comments are all good. Looks like I have been walking past good water. This season I will be sure to include skinny water on my trips.
What (if anything) do you guys do differently with your float set ups for fishing water that may be only 2' deep. Seems to me the float would be right on top of the weight. I generally use a hollow pencil lead on my main line.
Lets say I was fishing 2' of water. I would have my depth set from the top of my float to my swivel around 18"-20" a shorter leader will keep your bait closer to that depth versus swirling all over as well in the current.
Good to see one of my posts got at least one person thinking lol.
Water flow is all about friction. Friction causes the water to slow down... And this friction is caused by the bottom, the banks, anything in the water (big boulders, logs, ect) and even the air. Typically the fastest part of a flow will be near the middle, a few inches below the surface.
Spots right near the main flow also provide the other thing the fish needs - food supply. Food drifts down the main flow, and from here the fish can dart out, grab it, and move back to slower waters.
It's hydrology not friction ;)
Now are you sure they sit there for food or is it because there's more oxygen there or that the faster current provides a quick escape? :D
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It's hydrology not friction ;)
Now are you sure they sit there for food or is it because there's more oxygen there or that the faster current provides a quick escape? :D
Its friction. Friction is the force that causes the water to slow down, change course, ect.
Hydrology is the study of the hydrosphere. The hydrosphere is exactly what you would expect (basically all water on earth) and makes up one of the four spheres of physical geography - hydrosphere, biosphere (life) geosphere (rocks, ect) and atmosphere.
As for exactly WHY the fish sit where they sit, Im sure those are both good reasons a fish would sit there. But so is food.
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Comments are all good. Looks like I have been walking past good water. This season I will be sure to include skinny water on my trips.
What (if anything) do you guys do differently with your float set ups for fishing water that may be only 2' deep. Seems to me the float would be right on top of the weight. I generally use a hollow pencil lead on my main line.
I wouldn't worry too much about depth just make sure you aren't dragging bottom .err on side of too shallow,if a steely wants it he will come for it.
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Its friction. Friction is the force that causes the water to slow down, change course, ect.
Hydrology is the study of the hydrosphere. The hydrosphere is exactly what you would expect (basically all water on earth) and makes up one of the four spheres of physical geography - hydrosphere, biosphere (life) geosphere (rocks, ect) and atmosphere.
As for exactly WHY the fish sit where they sit, Im sure those are both good reasons a fish would sit there. But so is food.
So the soft pocket in front of a boulder where fish hold is friction? :o The water hasn't even contacted the boulder yet and it has slowed :o :o :o
Hydrology
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So the soft pocket in front of a boulder where fish hold is friction? :o The water hasn't even contacted the boulder yet and it has slowed :o :o :o
Hydrology
boulder causes friction on water molecules which in turn push on more water molecules. Its all kinetic friction on a molecular level. So yes. Its Friction.
Hydrology is the study of water. You dont say "hydrology caused that to happen" because the study of something cannot be the cause of it.
btw, Im a geography student at SFU. This is kinda my thing.
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boulder causes friction on water molecules which in turn push on more water molecules. Its all kinetic friction on a molecular level. So yes. Its Friction.
Hydrology is the study of water. You dont say "hydrology caused that to happen" because the study of something cannot be the cause of it.
btw, Im a geography student at SFU. This is kinda my thing.
Well said.
Comments are all good. Looks like I have been walking past good water. This season I will be sure to include skinny water on my trips.
What (if anything) do you guys do differently with your float set ups for fishing water that may be only 2' deep. Seems to me the float would be right on top of the weight. I generally use a hollow pencil lead on my main line.
Definitely dont need a long leader when fishing fast/shallow water. It becomes a disadvantage. In coloured or fast water, might as well fish a 16~ inch leader to avoid having your bait swirling out of the seam! But as long as your bait is out there, they can usually find it 8)
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boulder causes friction on water molecules which in turn push on more water molecules. Its all kinetic friction on a molecular level. So yes. Its Friction.
Hydrology is the study of water. You dont say "hydrology caused that to happen" because the study of something cannot be the cause of it.
btw, Im a geography student at SFU. This is kinda my thing.
You can know all you want want about water and terminology but doesn't mean it's going to help you catch fish. I basically look at the river and think if I was a fish where would i sit or rest. Pretty easy once you cancel out where they won't sit
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A lot of fisherman tend too over think things
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Suther pretty much covered it.
When I used to live in Squamish in the 1970s I fished the river almost daily during steelhead season. The Squamish has many wide riffles where steelhead would hold in water less than 2 feet deep. It was classic fly water, but we most often fished with ghost shrimp when we could get them, and if not I would buy prawns and wire them to a 4/0 hook. Although we used floats, we held back on them and let the shrimp swing in the current downstream. Many times while standing in knee deep water I would have steelhead swim upstream between me and the shore. A couple of times I actually had them hold in the current 6 feet from my legs while using me as a break in the current.
Broken riffle water hides steelhead quite well, but they show up easily on smooth sandy sections. It's been my experience that on small rivers the steelhead will chose overhead cover, but on big rivers with broken water they will hold in the shallows until disturbed. Steelhead have a natural affinity for water they might eventually choose to spawn in. That is normally large gravel with some degree of current and lots of oxygen.
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boulder causes friction on water molecules which in turn push on more water molecules. Its all kinetic friction on a molecular level. So yes. Its Friction.
Hydrology is the study of water. You dont say "hydrology caused that to happen" because the study of something cannot be the cause of it.
btw, Im a geography student at SFU. This is kinda my thing.
You just inspired me more to make sure my children stays in school and not depend on Googling stuff.
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Best post I've read this month.
Heed the above advise and the fish you seek will be found.
beauty islander whats the setup for steelheading you use with it
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You just inspired me more to make sure my children stays in school and not depend on Googling stuff.
Maybe I should have used it rather than trying to recall from school many many years ago ::)
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Maybe I should have used it rather than trying to recall from school many many years ago ::)
shh... It's ok. It's just the internet. Let it go... Shhh...
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I'm just starting steelheading and have been studying but had some food for thought regarding techniques for float fishing in skinny water or just close to the bottom in general:
1. Isn't it advantageous to fish close to the bottom this time of year because winter steelies try to conserve energy and want targets mouth/eye level?
2. I've saw some you tube clips from Pacific Northwest steelheaders who use slinkies on the weight to avoid startling the fish by damping the sound of the weight bouncing on the bottom. Basically the lead is covered with heat shrinking pcv or I guess surgical tube would work as well.
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shh... It's ok. It's just the internet. Let it go... Shhh...
Its not just the internet. We were talking about real-world phenomena and their causes. If you are a fisherman, general hydrology is good thing to know because if you know how the water interacts with the banks, bottom, structure, ect, it is easier to identify where good fish water is... And identifying good fish water is the whole point isn't it?
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I'm just starting steelheading and have been studying but had some food for thought regarding techniques for float fishing in skinny water or just close to the bottom in general:
1. Isn't it advantageous to fish close to the bottom this time of year because winter steelies try to conserve energy and want targets mouth/eye level?
2. I've saw some you tube clips from Pacific Northwest steelheaders who use slinkies on the weight to avoid startling the fish by damping the sound of the weight bouncing on the bottom. Basically the lead is covered with heat shrinking pcv or I guess surgical tube would work as well.
Around here, If your weight is bouncing on the bottom, you are snagging, not fishing.
If you want to actually CATCH fish, you need a leader short enough the weight doesn't hit the bottom, ever.
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I agree with Ian that riffle water, even in shallow area, is a spot preferred by steelhead. They feel more secured by the riffle. If it is a sunny day, they will seek out these riffles more as the riffle shield them from direct sun ray. Here is an interesting story of my steelheading. I once went with 3 other younger guys and we started at the Borden Creek area. We parked by the road and the young lads rushed out to the river as it was quite a walk. By the time I got to the river, the young lads have finished a nice piece of water and were going down river. I surveyed the spot and realized they might have just concentrated on the deeper 4-6 ft water which made up the main run. But the top part of the run was some shallow riffle water that most people would ignore. Being a sunny day as well as gin clear water, I figured if there was no fish in the main run, I may as well focus on the riffle which gave the fish some cover. I set up a single jenson egg on 8 lb leader and covered the riffle water carefully. Sure enough. A 10lb hatch was hiding there, and before the young lads made it to the next run, I had my fish and they were so shocked that I could dig up a fish after they thought they covered the run, LOL.
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Around here, If your weight is bouncing on the bottom, you are snagging, not fishing.
If you want to actually CATCH fish, you need a leader short enough the weight doesn't hit the bottom, ever.
the blind leading the blind 8) 8) ::)
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Around here, If your weight is bouncing on the bottom, you are snagging, not fishing.
If you want to actually CATCH fish, you need a leader short enough the weight doesn't hit the bottom, ever.
Not true. You should think first before making blanket statements that don't take into consideration techniques other than float-fishing. There are instances where the great depth of a pool/run or the uneveness of the river bottom makes it impractical/impossible to float fish. In such stretches of water you can dispose of the float and bottom bounce with a very short leader and get legitimate takes. Your weight must be light enough to just bounce off the bottom with the little current available, and your leader must be really short to feel the (often) subtle takes. Anything that helps keep the weight from snagging and making noise is good. Surgical tube helps, but parachute cord is even better.
Bottom-bouncing is a beautiful technique, much more difficult to master than short-floating, as it involves many variables. But once mastered, it will yield more steelhead and trout than short-floating ever will.
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2. I've saw some you tube clips from Pacific Northwest steelheaders who use slinkies on the weight to avoid startling the fish by damping the sound of the weight bouncing on the bottom. Basically the lead is covered with heat shrinking pcv or I guess surgical tube would work as well.
I think I saw the same video, it's by a "steelhead stalkers" or something and they're out of Washington. I think it's called "drift fishing".
His favorite way to rig up was to use a slinky (you can buy them at Sea Run), or make them using paracord (3Vets etc) and buckshot. Cut paracord into desired length, fill with buckshot or split shot, use lighter to seal paracord end (s).
He would poke a snap swivel through the slinky and put the eye through the mainline so it was free floating, then tie on a swivel, to a 2 ft leader.
I believe Milo is correct on the technique and all he says about it (I've never done it). If you go to their website (guys who made video), you'll see he writes about short floating like he recently discovered it and it's better than sliced bread ..."I wish we would have done this when we started".. because the learning curve is way steeper. He seems pretty legit to me.
Snagging bottom all the time would be a bitch. Logic would have it that drift fishing would be a lot harder, but give it a shot, I've lost enough pencil lead in the river so I'm not going to throw stones. I also love the sight of the float diving. I think that's the best part.
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Yeah. It's always good to discuss these things to understand or at least get an insightful idea of what the technique is all about. Snagging is obviously a nono and just a waste of the fishes time/energy. Not to mention the let down when you brig I in to find it was snagged on the fin or side. It's obvious when the snag is on the side or fin as it's the case majority of the time however if the hooks in or around the mouth less chance it was a snag (flossing aside..)
Anyhow thanks for the tips!
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milo is telling the truth about the slinky weights. yes, super short leader. 1.0z to 1.5 oz generally. its easy to cut precise weights on shore. all you need is a lighter and use snap swivels.
you can feel the progressive 'bounce'... if you want to call it that, of the bottom... as the weight drags itself on the bottom. using a pencil weight for this technique is possible, but like he said you miss alot of subtle takes. and you snag less fish and you dont lose many to snage either.
I wasn't able to use bait for the salmon season where I came from, so this was the most common technique you would see on the river.
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Not true. You should think first before making blanket statements that don't take into consideration techniques other than float-fishing. There are instances where the great depth of a pool/run or the uneveness of the river bottom makes it impractical/impossible to float fish. In such stretches of water you can dispose of the float and bottom bounce with a very short leader and get legitimate takes. Your weight must be light enough to just bounce off the bottom with the little current available, and your leader must be really short to feel the (often) subtle takes. Anything that helps keep the weight from snagging and making noise is good. Surgical tube helps, but parachute cord is even better.
Bottom-bouncing is a beautiful technique, much more difficult to master than short-floating, as it involves many variables. But once mastered, it will yield more steelhead and trout than short-floating ever will.
Agree 100% with Milo. True bottom bouncing is not for every one and most newbies will snag up easily. It allows you to get to steelhead otherwise unreachable from short floating and sometimes that can make the difference for an otherwise skunked trip.
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Not true. You should think first before making blanket statements that don't take into consideration techniques other than float-fishing. There are instances where the great depth of a pool/run or the uneveness of the river bottom makes it impractical/impossible to float fish. In such stretches of water you can dispose of the float and bottom bounce with a very short leader and get legitimate takes. Your weight must be light enough to just bounce off the bottom with the little current available, and your leader must be really short to feel the (often) subtle takes. Anything that helps keep the weight from snagging and making noise is good. Surgical tube helps, but parachute cord is even better.
Bottom-bouncing is a beautiful technique, much more difficult to master than short-floating, as it involves many variables. But once mastered, it will yield more steelhead and trout than short-floating ever will.
I was responding to someone who specifically asked about float fishing.
While bottom bouncing is certainly one way to catch fish, my point was you dont want your weight dragging on the bottom if you are floating.
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Its not just the internet. We were talking about real-world phenomena and their causes. If you are a fisherman, general hydrology is good thing to know because if you know how the water interacts with the banks, bottom, structure, ect, it is easier to identify where good fish water is... And identifying good fish water is the whole point isn't it?
I did a bit of my fisheries and aquaculture at viu and learned a fair amount about water and currents. Do I feel that it has benefited me at all when fishing?..... No. Once you've spent enough time on the river you figure out what steelhead like and where they will sit .
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I was responding to someone who specifically asked about float fishing.
While bottom bouncing is certainly one way to catch fish, my point was you dont want your weight dragging on the bottom if you are floating.
Understood.Your point is 100% valid assuming you are fishing for salmonids in moving water.There are, however, float fishing techniques where you actually MUST have your weight sitting on the bottom (but that is another story).
I must have read incorrectly into the second part of his question. I thought he meant generally fishing near the bottom, not "float-fishing" near the bottom in general
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I can think of a dozen situations where bottom bouncing with weights and lures is effective, and yet not flossing for salmon or steelhead. There is no one general rule that covers all situations.