Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: psd1179 on October 15, 2018, 07:52:37 PM
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I bought a centerpin reel and use on Fenwick HMX 12'6" spinning rod.
The rod is ultra light moderate action. I tried the BC swing, 1 ounce lead weight 35g float. I can not get my rig to where I want to. The rig is swing in an arc path and did not go far as well.
Do I need a stiffer rod? or any tips regarding distance cast?
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My first "Aha!" moment when learning to cast CP was letting the reel start to unspool before starting the swing and loading the rod with the weight of the rig. Once I started doing that I began to get more consistent casts with more distance. Not sure if that's your issue but hopefully it helps :)
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Diddo. Start letting it spin when swinging rod back then transition foreward with a smooth whip. It takes a bit to know how much preesure to hold on spool. I use my pinky dinger against the spool to regulate the spin. It becomes 2nd nature after practice.
Thats right dinger...I meant finger.
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Oh and 2oz of weight is over kill if drifting the vedder or any small to medium size river.
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Oh and 2oz of weight is over kill if drifting the vedder or any small to medium size river.
It is 1oz weight, I made a mistake. The egg weight is 1/2 each
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I would first suggest starting off on a 10' 6" / 10-20lb rating rod specifically built for c-pinning. There are many affordable options on the market that will be much better suited than a rod built for a spinning reel. the shorter length will help when first learning. I didn't move up in rod length until probably 3-4 years into c-pinning, now I use a 11'3" rod length and don't think I would even use a rod length of 12'6"?
You do not mention the reel you purchased, is it new, is it used and in need of maintenance? I only ask because it could be a factor.
Most newbies will over load there gear when first starting out (me included) as they think they need lots of weight to fire their setup out. I would suggest downsizing your float to a more suitable to all conditions 25gram float, with just enough weight (when in water) to only have the top color portion showing above the water line. I don't know how much weight this is as I use split shot and have never weighed it. Then pair it with a 12-18" leader. More weight will not help and I feel it actually is a hindrance when learning to cast a c-pin.
From here you will need lots of practice! Start with your terminal tackle set at approx 3' as it will allow you to easily manage the length when starting and finishing a cast. then slowly progress to longer lengths. As others have stated, the reel must be in motion when starting the casting motion. It does become a bit of a feel, and very hard for most to explain how much motion at each stage of the cast needs to be applied. this you will gain over time.
Everyone on a c-pin has gone through many hours and even years developing their cast and it will not become easy over night. I used to carry 2 rods when starting out, but never really became confident until I started leaving the level wind at home. This forces uncomfortable positions or places to cast, but it will help develop the "feel" which will only make you a more accomplished caster over time.
No expert by any means as I was self taught on the subject, but hope it helps.
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Thanks for the advise. I will buy a stiffer rod and give it a try.
The reel is from Amazon for $60. It is made in China but shipped from Mississauga. 3 days after, it was in front of my door. it is a solid reel spinning freely.
https://www.amazon.ca/CENTREPIN-Trotting-Machined-Aluminum-Steelhead/dp/B07CJQ2J1H/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1539701884&sr=8-2&keywords=centerpin+reel
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Thanks for the advise. I will buy a stiffer rod and give it a try.
The reel is from Amazon for $60. It is made in China but shipped from Mississauga. 3 days after, it was in front of my door. it is a solid reel spinning freely.
https://www.amazon.ca/CENTREPIN-Trotting-Machined-Aluminum-Steelhead/dp/B07CJQ2J1H/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1539701884&sr=8-2&keywords=centerpin+reel
Not necessarily a stiffer rod.
You might want to try a few in the 8-17lb test range before settling on a 10-20lb test range. I prefer a 8-17lb range for what I do on the water. However I do have an assortment of rods to play with. You will never have the "one rod" for everything.
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Looks like your reel is designed like the Okuma Sheffield...if so, you can tighten the knob slightly to adjust the speed of spool (to slow it down) until you get use to the swing release motion. Also as a final tip, put less line on your reel (say 2/3 the amount of what you'd normally put). This will also help minimize the over spin of the spool with less volume trying to be released. Hope this makes sense.
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I totally agree with STSfisher, a rod specifically for c-pinning would make a huge difference.
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Are switch rods essentially the same as a CP rod? I was fishing with a guy who said he carried a CP reel and just swapped it when he wanted to drift...
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Are switch rods essentially the same as a CP rod? I was fishing with a guy who said he carried a CP reel and just swapped it when he wanted to drift...
Very similar, also see the odd Spey rod with a pin.
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Are switch rods essentially the same as a CP rod? I was fishing with a guy who said he carried a CP reel and just swapped it when he wanted to drift...
No! Not sure how a CP rod would work with a short skagit head or a scandi head. I knew of 1 or 2 guys who tried a spey line with a drift rod. Didn't work!
However some switch rods work well as a CP rod. Single handed fly rods have also been used with a CP reel. I have used my Echo #8 with my old silex and it's a nice combination.
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No! Not sure how a CP rod would work with a short skagit head or a scandi head. I knew of 1 or 2 guys who tried a spey line with a drift rod. Didn't work!
However some switch rods work well as a CP rod. Single handed fly rods have also been used with a CP reel. I have used my Echo #8 with my old silex and it's a nice combination.
I would not suggest any of these rods be used for our beginner and his quest for information on " Centerpin setup and casting beginner question"
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Are switch rods essentially the same as a CP rod? I was fishing with a guy who said he carried a CP reel and just swapped it when he wanted to drift...
The rod blank its self might be very similar. However the height of the reel seat (distance up from the butt of the rod) and the design of the cork around the reel seat make a switch rod less than ideal for center pinning.
More specifically, most switch and spey rods have the reel seat too low for where most people would like their center pin reel to be. I have a 6wt 11"6 switch, an 8wt 13"6 spey, and a 9wt 13"6 spey. I have tried pin reels on all three rods, didn't really like it.
Also the way the cork is on a purpose built pin rod, your hand fits nice and comfortable against the side of the reel. Not so much with a switch or spey rod. They are meant to be held much higher up on the cork, so little if any thought is given to the ergonomics of the cork where one would hold the rod if center pin fishing.
So, yes, you "can" fish a pin reel on a switch or spey rod, but it's not nearly as nice of a fit as using a proper pin rod. I tried for a while bringing a pin reel and some basic gear tackle along while fly fishing. I found it wayyy too much of a pain switching over the reel and so on. Now if I plan to fish water that fishes well gear fishing and spey fishing I just bring one of each rod.
Getting back to the original post about learning to pin cast. I am far from an expert but when I was learning I was advised to chuck a bit of extra weight, I did this and found it to be helpful. I would use a 3 inch piece of standard gauge pencil lead (1/4 inch thick?) and a 30g or 35g float. If you have time practice on grass with no hook, if not just head to the river. As others have said the reel MUST do a couple turns before you lob the cast. The reel needs to spool up before you let it go. Let go of the reel, let it start to drop, one or two seconds later do your cast. It is more of a soft "lob" cast than a quick snap like a baitcaster. A bit of practice and you'll have it down in no time.
Oh ya and do ditch that noodley spinning rod. As others have said get a 10"6 medium or medium heavy power pin rod. It will help your casting a lot.
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The external fittings will vary for sure. Guides in particular will be different. There is no specific form of handle for any rod and there is much subjective about the shape of the cork. There is also no specific way to hold a spey or switch. Switches tend to have relatively short for handles compared to Spey or CP rods. Nor is there any specific way to hold the rod. Some hold them closer to the reel seat than others. Long fore handles on Spey rods are for playing fish not necessarily casting leverage. These days Spey and switch rods tend to be much faster than the classic CP flex which may be what some people like.
Due to the torque of their intended casts, Spey and switch blanks have to be designed to cope with far more twist along their length than any other rod. As I said I have heard of people who use switch rods with CP reels and are satisfied with the performance. I have never heard of anyone who has used a drift or CP rods as a switch or spey rod and been satisfied.
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theres a fenwick in the classifieds for $80
not mine but just saw it
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However some switch rods work well as a CP rod. Single handed fly rods have also been used with a CP reel. I have used my Echo #8 with my old silex and it's a nice combination.
I've done the exact same. Sometimes during steelhead season I'll start swinging in the lower c/v and if I want to head up and fish some pockets I'll bring my cp reel and swap it on my echo dh#8 and it works great. Versatile set up when I dont want to bring multi rods.
Back to the topic of the thread, just like everyone else has said you have to let the reel spin first before you start your forward casting stroke. Also, this might seem counter intuitive but the less effort you put into the cast the better. Let the weight properly LOAD the rod for you and use its natural spring action to cast the line out.
Here is one of my favourite CP casting instructional videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNAUHV1qAk8
This dude is so chill ha
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I switched to Fenwick HMX 10'6" media 8-15lb spinning rod, 35g float, 1oz weight. Release the spool at the beginning of the swing, the float fly to where it suppose to be.
Thanks everybody for the tips.
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I switched to Fenwick HMX 10'6" media 8-15lb spinning rod, 35g float, 1oz weight. Release the spool at the beginning of the swing, the float fly to where it suppose to be.
Thanks everybody for the tips.
Just curious, why did you buy a second spinning rod for center pin casting? Your experience will be enriched by purchasing a rod ergonomically designed to be used with a center pin reel.
The huge guides on a spinning rod will be a slight hinderance to your casting distance and control.
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Just curious, why did you buy a second spinning rod for center pin casting? Your experience will be enriched by purchasing a rod ergonomically designed to be used with a center pin reel.
The huge guides on a spinning rod will be a slight hinderance to your casting distance and control.
I am new to centerpin so not sure how I will love centerpin. I am so used to spinning rod. only because the centerpin reel is so cheap, I want to learn a bit. I might use centerpin on spey rod as well.
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I am new to centerpin so not sure how I will love centerpin. I am so used to spinning rod. only because the centerpin reel is so cheap, I want to learn a bit. I might use centerpin on spey rod as well.
If you already have a spey rod then by all means try your pin reel out on it. Why not. However if you don't have a spey rod please do yourself a favor and for your next rod purchase by yourself a proper center pin rod (!)
Yes you "can" use 2-handed fly rods, or spinning rods, but there is a reason 99% of the ppl you see fishing a center pin reel have it on a proper center pin rod - it's the best tool for the job. Considering you are new to center pin casting you will enjoy it more if you use the most appropriate tool for the job.
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please define 'proper centre pin rod' - hee hee - no need to answer as there are as likely close to as many answers as there are rod designers.
The main reason to suggest a switch rod is that you may have one. I have both a CP rod and a switch. I have had the CP rod longer. I can't say which one I like more when fished in a centre pin configuration. The switch has a much lighter feel though I would hesitate to challenge it with a big chum or a spring.
The good news is there are now lots of options in pin rods and at very reasonable price points.
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If you already have a spey rod then by all means try your pin reel out on it. Why not. However if you don't have a spey rod please do yourself a favor and for your next rod purchase by yourself a proper center pin rod (!)
Yes you "can" use 2-handed fly rods, or spinning rods, but there is a reason 99% of the ppl you see fishing a center pin reel have it on a proper center pin rod - it's the best tool for the job. Considering you are new to center pin casting you will enjoy it more if you use the most appropriate tool for the job.
If you walk into a fishing store and say "where are your centerpin rods?" Those ones. I realize the blank its self is simialr to a mooching blank or switch blank, or trigger rod blank. I realise you "can" put a pin reel on a spinning rod, or switch rod, or full lenght spey rod, or mooching rod, and so on. My point it the OP is new to pin casting and is having issues casting well. Therefore a rod with the cork and reel seat height designed for optimal pin casting is the best choice for a beginner.
Once you get the "easy rod" down then I would feel free to experiment with more funky options. I have pin casted with all of the above mentioned rods and they all work, but if I loan out a set up to a beginner to try it's always my fenwick HMX pin rod. 10"6, med power. Super easy to cast and get a feel for things.
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but if I loan out a set up to a beginner to try it's always my fenwick HMX pin rod. 10"6, med power. Super easy to cast and get a feel for things.
Is the fenwick HMX pin rod the mooching model? I did not find one on the website
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Is the fenwick HMX pin rod the mooching model? I did not find one on the website
No, it's not. If you go into any "real fishing store" (Searun, Fred's, and so on) they will likely have it and similar affordable pin rods (Okuma, Shimano, Amundson, etc).
The mooching rod is probably a similar blank in power and action but the reel seat height, reel seat type (uplocking) and other minor details wilk be more purposed for pin casting than mooching.
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No, it's not. If you go into any "real fishing store" (Searun, Fred's, and so on) they will likely have it and similar affordable pin rods (Okuma, Shimano, Amundson, etc).
The mooching rod is probably a similar blank in power and action but the reel seat height, reel seat type (uplocking) and other minor details wilk be more purposed for pin casting than mooching.
Thanks
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So a CP rod should have a down locking reel seat?
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So a CP rod should have a down locking reel seat?
No it should be up locking because you don't want your hand gripping against the treading of the reel base, unless the feeling of the grooves doesn't bother you.
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No it should be up locking because you don't want your hand gripping against the treading of the reel base, unless the feeling of the grooves doesn't bother you.
I put some badminton wraps around the threads, and a layer of electricians tape over that to keep the moisture off. Feels good, looks like the day I did it and it's been a few seasons. I almost never take my reel off though.. and yeah to the OP.. watch that video posted above with that dude with the radio voice and mustache.. took me 2 tries at the river after watching with a 20 g weight.
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No it should be up locking because you don't want your hand gripping against the treading of the reel base, unless the feeling of the grooves doesn't bother you.
I was looking at some on line photos of Shimano pin rods - they had down locking seats. Both my switches and 2 of my spey rods have uplocking seats. Another spey down locks but the entire seat is cork.
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I build a lot of rods and have never been asked to build a downlocking seat on centerpins, or fly rods. I have, however, probably switched over a dozen or so to uplocking seats. Most people prefer the feel of cork over reelseat threads.
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up vs down is something I never thought much about.
Of 9 sh fly rods one locks down - a Winston Factory rod from the early 90s. At least one of those rods, a sage, had the butt replaced. It was a custom job on a blank and the first may have been down but I don't remember any more with certainty.
DH rods (2 switch and 3 spey) one spey locks down - an Orvis from the 80s. The Orvis was done on a blank but the builder copied the butt from a demo rod he got from the local Orvis dealer.
2 spin rods - both lock down as with 2 gear casting rods.
My CP is uplocking.
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Is the fenwick HMX pin rod the mooching model? I did not find one on the website
Most of us use a moocher. I love my fenwick HMX moocher for the Center pin. Should find them for $150.
Moochers and pin rods are the same.
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There's a lot of talk on here about a switch/spey rod not being a proper pin rod. I beg to differ.
Around 4 years ago, I broke my only "pin" rod and used my admundson wind warrior 6wt spey as a backup. I never looked back. It loads up way nicer than any other pin rod I've ever personally used, and just feels better (snake guides and all). I even bought 2 blanks and got the handles built as "proper" pin rods. That being said, I still prefer to use the spey built rod as my pins, because I really like short handles. It's all personal opinion, but I very much dislike the standard pin build with huge long corks, and prefer a short 4 inch bottom, and 10 inches top maximum.
The same has held true recently with a switch to the rainshadow brand. The 6 wt spey I got built up as a pin is much lighter and easier to load up and aim than their actual "pin" blanks. Very, very similar action to the actual pin blank, but probably half the blank weight, and it's slightly more "noodly," which is what I prefer. In all likelihood, I'll probably never buy another pin rod again, and will stick with spey conversion builds.
P.S. I have actually found spey rods to help casting more than hinder it. With the proper timing, you can load the rod easier and cast in a shoe box. The higher flex also allows more of a slingshot effect = longer casting.
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There's a lot of talk on here about a switch/spey rod not being a proper pin rod. I beg to differ.
Around 4 years ago, I broke my only "pin" rod and used my admundson wind warrior 6wt spey as a backup. I never looked back. It loads up way nicer than any other pin rod I've ever personally used, and just feels better (snake guides and all). I even bought 2 blanks and got the handles built as "proper" pin rods. That being said, I still prefer to use the spey built rod as my pins, because I really like short handles. It's all personal opinion, but I very much dislike the standard pin build with huge long corks, and prefer a short 4 inch bottom, and 10 inches top maximum.
The same has held true recently with a switch to the rainshadow brand. The 6 wt spey I got built up as a pin is much lighter and easier to load up and aim than their actual "pin" blanks. Very, very similar action to the actual pin blank, but probably half the blank weight, and it's slightly more "noodly," which is what I prefer. In all likelihood, I'll probably never buy another pin rod again, and will stick with spey conversion builds.
P.S. I have actually found spey rods to help casting more than hinder it. With the proper timing, you can load the rod easier and cast in a shoe box. The higher flex also allows more of a slingshot effect = longer casting.
Great advice. The only reason I haven't do so is that I don't want roe stain my sage X :)
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put a condom on it steve.
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the very best deal I ever got on a centerpin rod was a rod advertised on Ebay as a two-handed fly rod for sale in the UK.
On closer inspection of the pictures I could see it was actually a Sage 3113lb brown rod.
The "buy it now" price was $175.00 cdn so I promptly snapped it up. Even with shipping from the UK it wasn't over $200.00 cdn.