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[Knnn]

I response to a post by Vancouver_2010, ( http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=42332.90 ) I thought I would start a separate thread on interpretation of DFO's current Region 2 regulations.

Figured I'd throw this here rather than starting a new topic (as it partially applies to the Stave), but I was wondering if someone could offer some clarification of the regs.  At the top of the DFO page, it states: "There is no fishing for salmon in Region 2 except for the opportunities listed in the table below".
Does this mean that if you were to say fish the Cheakamus with the goal of catching and releasing chum, you would technically be in violation of the regulations because there are no opportunities listed for chum? Or are you free to practice catch and release on any river as long as it does not explicitly state "No fishing for salmon"?  I realize I am very likely over-thinking this, but it came up in a conversation the other day and I couldn't come up with a straight answer.
As I write this, I also see now that the Stave becomes "Non-retention", so that is a bit more clear.

For the Cheakamus, it says you can fish for "ALL" salmon between April 01 to March 31, as long as you do not use bait and only retain 1 hatchery coho.

However, the clause stating "There is no fishing for salmon in Region 2 except for the opportunities listed in the table below", appears to indicate that you cannot fish for salmon in the Ashlu, or the main stem Squamish, 1.5 km above the Cheakamus.  It also appears that, although the Powerhouse Channel is listed as an opportunity, it is included as the Squamish and therefore excluded because it is more than 1.5 km above the Cheakamus.

So all the folks who have recently or are currently fishing for Coho and Chum on the Squamish above the Cheakamus may be contravening the Regs, if I have read the regs correctly, and they are not out solely targeting "trout"......

Confused much?  I know I am.

I have fished the Squamish for Coho for a number of years now and do not recall seeing that particular clause in the 2015-2017 regulations.  Does anyone have a copy of the old regulations to see if it was in there or when it was introduced?  @rodney?

[Rodney]

That clause was never there until I saw that post yesterday. Whoever decided to put it in there has no clue about how the rec regulations have worked.

[Fish Assassin]

Another example of DFO incompetence.

[firebird]

There have been times in the past when fishing for (i.e. targeting) salmon was not allowed in the upper Squamish and Ashlu. I had Fishery Officers ask me back then what I was fishing for and my reply was bull trout and rainbow. I don't know if the freshwater salmon supplement had a similar clause back then. I do know though that a similar clause was used a couple of years ago for Region 3 because I checked before fishing the Nahatlatch for coho - it was clear that no fishing for salmon was allowed.

[wildmanyeah]

That clause was never there until I saw that post yesterday. Whoever decided to put it in there has no clue about how the rec regulations have worked.

Saw you email on Facebook Rod, I think it echo's very well the frustrations of the recreational community.

Thanks for the post!!

[Knnn]

I have seen from an independent source that the clause was present in the Region 3 Regs in 2015/16, but it appears it was not included within the Region 2 regulations.  I have no idea if this was this an oversight that was correctly later. 

I would be interested to see if anyone has a hard copy or a cached copy of the old Region 2 regulations.  Does anyone here have any skills recovering cached web pages that could help figure out if and when the change occurred. 

[blackskull]

According to the Wayback Machine....

The new clause showed up for Region 2 sometime between Feb 26, 2018 and July 14, 2018.  There were no snapshots between this time period to further track down the date.
The old clause was, "Unless otherwise stated in the table below, the daily limit for all waters in Region 2 is zero (0)".

Links:
Feb. 25, 2018 snapshot
Jul. 14, 2018 snapshot

I have seen from an independent source that the clause was present in the Region 3 Regs in 2015/16, but it appears it was not included within the Region 2 regulations.  I have no idea if this was this an oversight that was correctly later. 

I would be interested to see if anyone has a hard copy or a cached copy of the old Region 2 regulations.  Does anyone here have any skills recovering cached web pages that could help figure out if and when the change occurred.

[Knnn]

Thanks blackskull that's a good find.

I guess there are probably plenty of folks, including guides and their clients, up the Squamish at the moment and over the following weeks who could be ticketed, unless they are fishing for "trout" with their 7/8 wt switch and spey rods.  Completely FUBAR.

[Rodney]

So we've been busy with the emails and phone calls about this because it affects everyone who fishes in Region 2. This goes back to the email I wrote to those who are supposed to be responsible for this yesterday, that recreational fishing opportunities are no longer their best interests, and the importance of catch and release is not understood and recognized at the department. At least there isn't an effort to do so anyway.

If you'd like to read the rest, it's at:

https://www.facebook.com/fishingwithrod/posts/10156016490777712

[stsfisher]

So we've been busy with the emails and phone calls about this because it affects everyone who fishes in Region 2. This goes back to the email I wrote to those who are supposed to be responsible for this yesterday, that recreational fishing opportunities are no longer their best interests, and the importance of catch and release is not understood and recognized at the department. At least there isn't an effort to do so anyway.

If you'd like to read the rest, it's at:

https://www.facebook.com/fishingwithrod/posts/10156016490777712

Thank you Rod.

[RalphH]

So we've been busy with the emails and phone calls about this because it affects everyone who fishes in Region 2. This goes back to the email I wrote to those who are supposed to be responsible for this yesterday, that recreational fishing opportunities are no longer their best interests, and the importance of catch and release is not understood and recognized at the department. At least there isn't an effort to do so anyway.

If you'd like to read the rest, it's at:

https://www.facebook.com/fishingwithrod/posts/10156016490777712

actually the Fisheries Professional opinion of c&r has moved away from the old low impact model to a recognition that c&r as practiced across all modes of tackle and common angler release practice is much higher than once thought. It is isn't unusual to hear Fisheries Biologist state that across all species and tackle choices, up to1/3rd or more of released fish die. There is also recognition that the non-fatal effects of c&r can no longer be ignored as these include but are not limited to, changes in behaviour, reduced feeding efficiency, increased risk of death through predation and impaired reproductive efficiency even to the point fish that have been caught and released frequently simply don't reproduce.

Perhaps it's time sports anglers stop believing old concepts often based on ideal models of c&r survival or even cases where the data was manipulated or gathered in a non randomized fashion and update their own knowledge.

[wildmanyeah]

I guess I know why their is no cut throat trout left in your holes now after you go though Ralph. Killing one third of them Jesus

[stsfisher]

actually the Fisheries Professional opinion of c&r has moved away from the old low impact model to a recognition that c&r as practiced across all modes of tackle and common angler release practice is much higher than once thought. It is isn't unusual to hear Fisheries Biologist state that across all species and tackle choices, 1/3rd of released fish die. There is also recognition that the non-fatal effects of c&r can no longer be ignored as these include but are not limited to, changes in behaviour, reduced feeding efficiency, increased risk of death through predation and impaired reproductive efficiency even to the point fish that have been caught and released frequently simply don't reproduce.

Perhaps it's time sports anglers stop believing old concepts often based on ideal models of c&r survival or even cases where the data was manipulated or gathered in a non randomized fashion and update their own knowledge.

Exactly what Rodney is saying "the importance of catch and release is not understood and recognized at the department." If they believe that 1/3 of fish perish from C&R done with care and proper handling practices then they are the ones that need to "update their own Knowledge" as many sport anglers have been doing for many years. Those that practice catch and release know 1/3 of fish perishing is not anywhere near factual.
Lets not misconstrued these numbers by including those anglers who will NOT be on the water when harvesting salmon is not allowed by the regulations. Without a harvest fishery, but open to C&R only, one can eliminate many concerns that you speak of above. It has proven to work in various fisheries already and should not be anything new to these  Fisheries Professionals.


Further to that if they believe their own theory of 1/3 when sport angled and released I would love to hear what their number represents when released from commercial or economical practices.    As this has become common for them to require non targeted species to be released back into he water they must already have an opinion or stats on this.   

[stsfisher]

I hate to say it but from the way I see the vast majority of folks handle the fish they release id be surprised if the survival rate was even 1/3 fish. A lot people drag the fish up rocks or the bank as it thrashes and leave it out of the water for up to a few minutes.. I see people with nets pull the fish out to suffocate in the net while they take the hook out and take pics  . Its sad to watch and even when I try to explain it to them they dont seem to understand or care. Sometimes they do learn and with enough reminds people change. Sure most seasoned anglers have good release practices but were probably less tham half of anglers. If only there was some compitency test to aquire a license. Now thays well wishin on my behalf 

Yes true, but with a C&R fishery only implemented those same anglers would not bother to be on the water. And if they where they would be better educated by those who now out number the bad behavior.

[Knnn]

Holy crapola, did I lose my mind or did the DFO Region 2 regulations change back to the old form last night? 

https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/fresh-douce/region2-eng.html

It now reads:

"Unless otherwise stated in the Table below, the daily limit for all waters in Region 2 is zero (0)".