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Author Topic: steelhead strains?  (Read 9840 times)

joska

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steelhead strains?
« on: February 24, 2011, 10:25:45 PM »

quick question for the steelheading superstars i got a few questions regarding the different strains of steelhead we have here in BC. i am aware that the thompson strain is a bigger strain and stocks are depleting?  that is the reason why they closed the thompson river this year? the major questions that i have is, are the island fish bigger than the wild vedder fish? and how do the hatchery fish compare in size to the wild stocks? thanks in advance tight lines to all...
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shortfloat

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Re: steelhead strains?
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2011, 05:10:09 PM »

I dont know if you can say that Island fish are bigger or smaller than chwk/vedder fish I know of big fish coming from both, when I have fished the stamp generally a big fish for me was around 12lbs. I know that there have been lots of big steelhead taken off the island and there have been plenty of big steelhead taken from the chwk/vedder system. Ok this one is very simple wild steelhead and hatchery steelhead have the exact same genenitics. The hatchery takes wild does and wild bucks every year and creates the next cycle of hatchery fish out of them. You can catch both big wild and hatchery bucks. However for me at least it seems that when I do catch a big fish it just happens to be wild most of the time.  Hope that helps
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joska

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Re: steelhead strains?
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2011, 07:56:46 PM »

I dont know if you can say that Island fish are bigger or smaller than chwk/vedder fish I know of big fish coming from both, when I have fished the stamp generally a big fish for me was around 12lbs. I know that there have been lots of big steelhead taken off the island and there have been plenty of big steelhead taken from the chwk/vedder system. Ok this one is very simple wild steelhead and hatchery steelhead have the exact same genenitics. The hatchery takes wild does and wild bucks every year and creates the next cycle of hatchery fish out of them. You can catch both big wild and hatchery bucks. However for me at least it seems that when I do catch a big fish it just happens to be wild most of the time.  Hope that helps
thanks alot. shortfloat... being a rookie i cant stop asking what if.  everyone on the river will hear the excitement when i hook into my first steelhead  on the vedder.
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kingpin

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Re: steelhead strains?
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2011, 09:53:01 PM »

from my experience with the island rivers, the average vedder fish is much larger than most of the rivers there...there are a few that I wont name that have some very big fish in them though
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joska

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Re: steelhead strains?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2011, 11:12:58 AM »

from my experience with the island rivers, the average vedder fish is much larger than most of the rivers there...there are a few that I wont name that have some very big fish in them though
  thanks kingpin, no need for names..  i plan on heading over to the island and finding them one day. until then i will wear out many pairs of felts exploring the vedder. thanks again guys.
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HOOK

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Re: steelhead strains?
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2011, 01:26:34 PM »

I think we assume they are different strains when infact they just seem that way because of the conditions and/or distances they must travel to their natal streams. The Vedder fish dont have to run heavy rapids or long distances like the Thompson fish do, same goes for the Skeena tributaries fish for the distance they travel and rapids in some of the tribs as well. I think this is what makes these fish fight harder and possibly have a larger fish size as well. This is just speculation of course but who really cares as long as these great fish stick around
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joska

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Re: steelhead strains?
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2011, 05:29:53 PM »

I think we assume they are different strains when infact they just seem that way because of the conditions and/or distances they must travel to their natal streams. The Vedder fish dont have to run heavy rapids or long distances like the Thompson fish do, same goes for the Skeena tributaries fish for the distance they travel and rapids in some of the tribs as well. I think this is what makes these fish fight harder and possibly have a larger fish size as well. This is just speculation of course but who really cares as long as these great fish stick around
intresting point hook...  i second the fact that these fish are incredible and need to stick around.   
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Big Rob

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Re: steelhead strains?
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2011, 06:11:18 PM »

  From 1968 to 1980 we fished the Indian river at the end of Indian Arm or the Upper Pitt river  most weekends during Steelhead season. The Indian river had about a third to half the flow that the Pitt did. But the Indian fish  were the biggest fish. My biggest was 19 lb. My dad caught and released one over 20lb. most averaged over 10 lb. The biggest fish out of the Upper Pitt for us was 11lb. most averaged 8lb.
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joska

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Re: steelhead strains?
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2011, 06:42:20 PM »

  From 1968 to 1980 we fished the Indian river at the end of Indian Arm or the Upper Pitt river  most weekends during Steelhead season. The Indian river had about a third to half the flow that the Pitt did. But the Indian fish  were the biggest fish. My biggest was 19 lb. My dad caught and released one over 20lb. most averaged over 10 lb. The biggest fish out of the Upper Pitt for us was 11lb. most averaged 8lb.
great times had by all back in the day eh rob.  could it ever be like that again? 
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bigblue

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Re: steelhead strains?
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2011, 09:37:14 PM »

  From 1968 to 1980 we fished the Indian river at the end of Indian Arm or the Upper Pitt river  most weekends during Steelhead season. The Indian river had about a third to half the flow that the Pitt did. But the Indian fish  were the biggest fish. My biggest was 19 lb. My dad caught and released one over 20lb. most averaged over 10 lb. The biggest fish out of the Upper Pitt for us was 11lb. most averaged 8lb.

I just checked the regs and no limit for salmon or steelhead in either river today.
So, I guess fishing is very different today than it was a generation ago. :(
Thompson today, and where next? :(

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Rodney

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Re: steelhead strains?
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2011, 09:39:01 PM »

I just checked the regs and no limit for salmon or steelhead in either river today.

When specific regulations do not exist for a particular water body, then the regional regulations apply to that water body.

bigblue

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Re: steelhead strains?
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2011, 10:44:01 PM »

When specific regulations do not exist for a particular water body, then the regional regulations apply to that water body.

By "no limit", I meant that the "daily retention quota is zero" for those two rivers.
Thanks for your comments Rodney.
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Sandman

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Re: steelhead strains?
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2011, 10:54:03 PM »

While the strength of a steelhead "strain" may be attributed to the obstacles it must overcome in its journey (like the Thompson steelhead's journey through Hells Gate, or the Dean River's lower canyon), the one obvious factor affecting fish size is the distance the fish travels in the ocean (and the time it spends out there).   The fact is that steelhead have the greatest number of variants in life cycle of any andromous species, from time spent in the ocean, distance traveled, time spent in the freshwater pre spawn and post hatch. Thompson fish probably spend 3-4 years in the rich waters off Alaska's Aleutian Islands, and many return for a 2nd or even third season.  A particularly hardy BC female was determined, though scale analysis, to have returned for a 6th time, (although the statistical return for a 2nd visit is only about 10%). Smaller strains, on the other hand, likely spend their time closer to their natal streams and may return after only 1-2 years in the ocean (like many California and Oregon steelhead that average 5-10 pounds), and many many not return for a 2nd or third visit.    This longer time spent at at sea is why you see 20+ size fish in the Thompson, but the journey through the Hells Gate may be why they fight harder than a 20 pound fish in the Indian River did.  The smaller Oregon strains, likewise, may be every bit as strong as a 10 -14 pound Vedder steelhead if they have to negotiate a steep canyon gorge or travel hundreds of kilometers inland like the Thompson fish do.  Another factor may be the timing of the run.   The Thompson fish is a "Summer run" fish (they enter the Fraser in August) and so they are stronger and more aggressive than true winter run fish like the Vedder steelhead that get more lethargic as the temperatures drop.  This is similar to how the Dean steelhead (considered by many to be the strongest "strain" around) fight harder than the Skeena tributary fish in the Bulkley or Morris systems (even though they are both summer runs).  The Dean fish are targeted when they enter in the summer, while the Bulkey and Morris fish are targeted , like the Thompson fish, in the fall (even though they entered the Skeena at the same time the Dean fish entered the lower Dean River.  Since the water in the fall is cooler,  their metabolism is slowed, and the Bulkey and Morris fish have also used up more of their stored energy in their 300km journey up the Skeena.  While still summer run "players,"  these fish are not considered as strong as the Dean fish, which are fresh from the ocean and swimming in warmer summer waters, a recipe for aggressive strong fish.  Now imagine if you were to be lucky enough to hook into a 20 pound early Thompson fish in September.  That would be a fight to remember.  The 12 pound summer run Steelhead I hooked in August in the Seymour estuary while fishing Pinks was the best fight I have ever had, 10 times better than a similar sized fish I caught in the lower Vedder/Sumas on New Years Day.
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joska

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Re: steelhead strains?
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2011, 12:16:52 AM »

thanks for the information sandman. another quick question guys.  how does the great lake steelhead compare to the west coast steelhead?  i have seen many episodes of east coast steelheading on wfn and have put it on the to do list.
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HOOK

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Re: steelhead strains?
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2011, 09:17:35 AM »

east coast steelhead are not "technically" steelhead because they do not return to the ocean but only return to a large lake. I think this is part of why they get such large numbered returns as well and the fish are generally smaller than what we get here along the West Coast

They do however get HUGE migratory Brown trout  :o some of them make the steelhead look tiny

East Coast - West Coast steelhead has been an ongoing bitch fest whether their fish are "real steelhead" or not for years and years LOL Us here say they arent and they say sure they are  ;)


HOOK - needs $6000 to fish the Dean !!  ;D
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