Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: odesseus on June 23, 2009, 10:09:47 PM
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This post is a for myself and all those who are trying to catch an early season spring.
Went to Scale Bar on the weekend and it was shoulder to shoulder bottom bouncing, however as the day wore on, it seemed like if someone had a mind they might be able to set up a few bar rods at the top of the bar and let the guys below cast out from them.
My question then is this: can you catch springs at this time bar fishing on Scale Bar? Can you ever bar fish Scale? Or am I doomed to spend the weekend beating the water with a 3.5 oz betty??? (this is acceptable as long as I might catch a fish)
I pose this question in the hopes of clarifying whether or not I would be successfull bar fishing or whether bottom bouncing is a necessity? The wisdom of the community is appreciated. As well, if someone has a better location please feel free to fill me in!
No moral judgements rendered here!!!
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Often setting up a bar rod when everyone is bouncing can cause problems but it can be done. Just be friendly about it. However, with low visibility you better be able to put your spin n glo right in front of their travel line. Another option would be to find clearer water at creek mouths and fish there.
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I use to bar fish from the end of Lundstrom road. Then they changed the parking there. Need almost a pound of weight when the water is cruising. Scale bar itself might be harder with people casting over your rig unless you get to one end early and stake out the spot. Maybe bring two set ups, lawn chairs, pit bull, beer etc.
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Bounce until the water drops, then there will be alot more spots to bar fish.
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buddy if you think that it was shoulder to shoulder on saturday, you got another thing coming ;D that place gets crazy!!!! when the water drops enough to really get into fish at Scale, there will probably be too many guys to bar fish. I am not too familiar with the Fraser but there have got to be lots of great spots to set up a bar rod elsewhere.
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The water is so high right now, I don't think there are very many productive bar spots. Accessibility is the main issue, if you have a boat there are lots of places to bar fish.
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Bouncing is going to give you a better chance of hooking a spring before the water drops. However, some sockeye will be showing up before this happens. You may hook them too. They have a low catch and release survival rate, and most of the early summer runs have low return numbers so flossers could have a big impact on these runs.
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Regarding Catch and Release Survival Rates - It all depends on how the fish are being handled. The Catch and Release Survival rates can be really good. There was a study done last year in the Fraser looking at just this question and it will be done again this year. If anyone out there knows of the results from last year, please post them for Sir Snag Alot
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According to the study done last year on the Fraser, sockeye hooked and released (they were kept in holding pens for 24 hrs.) using the flossing method experienced a 99.5% survival rate. The anglers used for this study were volunteers of all skill levels. 174 sockeye hooked, only 2 died. Only one of which could be identified as having died as a result of fishery impacts.
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My question then is this: can you catch springs at this time bar fishing on Scale Bar?
I pose this question in the hopes of clarifying whether or not I would be successfull bar fishing or whether bottom bouncing is a necessity? The wisdom of the community is appreciated. As well, if someone has a better location please feel free to fill me in!
No moral judgements rendered here!!!
Almost a nil change of catching a chinook bar fishing now, that is in the main stem Fraser as visibility is very poor. River is starting to drop but it will be a bit yet before the bar rods will come out. As the river clears starting at 1 foot and it gets progressively the better your chances increase. August as been a very good month for chinook but when the sockeye open to first Nations and Commercial in the Fraser of that can have an effect on your results. Once the water drops there is plenty of bars to fish around Chilliwack but a boat is an asset of course With a bit of exploring you can find bars away from the BB crowds. I am getting the Leaf Craft ready for the coming season.
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buddy if you think that it was shoulder to shoulder on saturday, you got another thing coming ;D that place gets crazy!!!! when the water drops enough to really get into fish at Scale, there will probably be too many guys to bar fish. I am not too familiar with the Fraser but there have got to be lots of great spots to set up a bar rod elsewhere.
Only 5 cars there when I drove by their around 1 but it was raining hard so maybe they went home. ???
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According to the study done last year on the Fraser, sockeye hooked and released (they were kept in holding pens for 24 hrs.) using the flossing method experienced a 99.5% survival rate. The anglers used for this study were volunteers of all skill levels. 174 sockeye hooked, only 2 died. Only one of which could be identified as having died as a result of fishery impacts.
I donot think this study reall accomplished much as the fish were held in ideal conditions after being landed. To attempt to get a true picture the fish should be radio tagged and their migration monitored by telmentary stations along the way to their natal stream. The sockeye only have a certain amount of fat reserves and a time frame to get them through the rough journey that lays ahead for them. After being played on the end of long leaders that causes some stress on being landed with latic acid building up in their bodies so if they are released soon after being landed they may be stressed and get delayed moving upstream. Of course this radio tagged fish could be intecepts by a large number of FN nets so that may not be the best method either.
In this time of shortage of fishery dollars from the Federeral Government the money maybe better spent on fish hatcheries or habitat restoration then studies that in my mind do not accomplish much.
I have related some of this at Upper Fraser Valley Sportsfishing Advisory meeting last year and my views were not supported by many in attendance. It could be that most of them fished for sockeye and I donot.
Sorry to sort of hyjack this thread and I should not be on the computer as I have taken a week away from cel phones etc.and doing some fishing
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I donot think this study reall accomplished much as the fish were held in ideal conditions after being landed. To attempt to get a true picture the fish should be radio tagged and their migration monitored by telmentary stations along the way to their natal stream. The sockeye only have a certain amount of fat reserves and a time frame to get them through the rough journey that lays ahead for them. After being played on the end of long leaders that causes some stress on being landed with latic acid building up in their bodies so if they are released soon after being landed they may be stressed and get delayed moving upstream. Of course this radio tagged fish could be intecepts by a large number of FN nets so that may not be the best method either.
In this time of shortage of fishery dollars from the Federeral Government the money maybe better spent on fish hatcheries or habitat restoration then studies that in my mind do not accomplish much.
I have related some of this at Upper Fraser Valley Sportsfishing Advisory meeting last year and my views were not supported by many in attendance. It could be that most of them fished for sockeye and I donot.
Sorry to sort of hyjack this thread and I should not be on the computer as I have taken a week away from cel phones etc.and doing some fishing
I was not trying to make an arguement for the PRO side of flossing. The man asked for the numbers on that study, I just happened to know them. Although I don't think there that far off.
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Hmmm..... My take on this, if the fraser is too high and dirty some say bottom bounce it. I wonder if the vedder or chehalis was too high should you bottom bounce them? or wait till they are fishable?
personally I barfish, because I want my fish to bite.
there has been some bar fishers getting fish that I know of.....
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yeah bar fished the lower twice now and nothing.... my friend got into some 3 days ago... im thinking i gotta get to the upper and give er a shot..
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Wow, those survival rates are incredible! I sure hope that this is representative of the actual fate for C & R sockeye. Unfortunately I can't remember the specific sources for my info, but I thought that the main concern for sockeye mortality was bacteria getting into openings in the mouth from the hook or abrasions on the body from being dragged on to the beach, or something like that. It would be hard I guess to really know what happens without following the fish to their spawning grounds.
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To see a summary of last year's sockeye salmon recreational catch and release study, please download this Power Point presentation:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/fishy_news/file/090625.ppt
This is a multi-year study. The second one is scheduled to begin sometimes in the next two months. Volunteers will most likely be needed again, I will post up information when received.
Regardless whether you agree or disagree with the practice done in this fishery, studies such as this one is beneficial as it allows managers to make sound decisions based on quantitative information, rather than what we believe may happen.
This study somewhat presents a possible dilemma in the recreational fishery. It illustrates that external hook damage results in lower mortality due to minimal bleeding, while fish hooked properly (ie. inside the mouth, particularly on the tongue, back of the oral cavity) can sometimes result in much higher mortality due to servere bleeding.
Some cautionary notes of course. Scientific studies only partially represent what actually happens because there are many other variables involved. The fish were held in a channel that has a velocity similar to where they would travel in the Lower Fraser River, however the result from the study demonstrates short-term mortality because the fish were only held for a short period of time. How well sockeye salmon that are caught and released do beyond this period is unknown, especially once entering the Fraser Canyon when stream velocity increases significantly. Secondly, the predation factor has not been included. Fish that are released can be vulnerable to predation by seals for a short period of time. This may increase mortality rate of released fish. As the study becomes more in-depth, some of these variables will most likely be looked at.
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I knew of this study last summer, but this is the first time that I have seen the results. Looks good! It makes me feel a little better about the fate of sockeye that I have lost at the beach. Hopefully this can be followed up with a longer term study though.
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19 springs in 10 days :o. Damn man good for you!!!! That's more than the albion test net since the 15.
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The Albion test net caught 80 chinook from June 1st till today, 34 of the fish were caught in the last two days. That's not that much...
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fos2_Internet/Testfish/rptdtfdparm.cfm?fsub_id=242.
Is it worth the gas to go out right now or better wait for 3 or 4 more weeks until the waterlevel has dropped and the numbers are higher?
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Bouncing is hard work. Not for the old and weary. But bouncing for springs also requires you to know the travel lane, using the betty to feel out the deep trough, the drop off, the deep hole, etc where springs like to go through or rest. In the bar I used to fish, there are those who consistently hooked into more fish than others. It does not seem to be a random luck. They must have figured out something others don't have a clue.
Barfishing is definitely a more relax way to fish. I am a bber now, but I have all the gears for bf which I will use when I get older and can afford a boat. Despite what others say, there are limited spots for shore bar fishermen, especially during the peak run. If you show up a bit late, you can forget about most good bars. Most locals camp out there. So to each its own, whatever suits your style.
34 fish in 2 days? Wow. See you in the bar. ;D From experience, we had good fishing when the number was 5 to 10. ;D
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Wow 23 springs on the 24th!!!!!!!!Ding ding!!!!
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I think that bbing caries alot of bad wrap with it. Because there are ways to bottom bounce that are fair to the fish, like bouncing with a leader that is only 3 feet long that way your not flossing and I am sure someone will come on here tell me that your still going to snag fish, I guess you are right but sometimes float fishing snags fish. Just my thought, I dont fish the fraser ever so I guess I dont really have a say.
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I don't understand why you guys think that bbing is more effective in the early season in high water. I have been out every day since the opening bar fishing and I haven't been skunked yet! I've had 3 days where I've gotten 3 fish as well with many days of 2 fish and the rest 1 fish days. The fish don't key in just visually they also sense vibrations (spin n glo spinning with a clipped wing) and they are scent junkies (my secret roe cure hahaha). The MOST important thing when bar fishing is location, location, location! You have to be in the travelling lane in there face and to do that you need to understand how and where fish travel in the river. But I've got what works for me, and I guess the people that don't want to put the time in and have the fish actually bite have their way. How many bbings on here have landed 16 springs since the opening and lost 3 more so 19 hooked?
19 fish on the bar rod already? i dont want to call you a liar but that sounds like my smelly socks.
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If you want to catch a sockeye during the upcoming opening and retain it, get your bouncing betties ready,you ain't ever going to catch one on a bar rig setup.Can't wait to put some fresh socks in the boat,great fresh,smoked or canned!
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;D ;D........FF .....ayep.
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it happens, my old man got a nice one a few years back on a green top at grassy.
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19 just seems like a ton... most people would be pretty skeptical considering there has not yet been one report of bar rig success this year. got any pics??? you must have a really good spot
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19 just seems like a ton... most people would be pretty skeptical considering there has not yet been one report of bar rig success this year. got any pics??? you must have a really good spot
What is a believable number? 18?, 10?, 1? As chrome bar says, he has a special spot, let it be.....
What's it worth to you chrome bar, to share that information??? ;) ;)
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Man that is a big number! So did you mark the first 10 on your license and have been catch and release since? I think that must be record time for filling the annual quota.
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It got the shampoo?
Is that because there was no soap? ;D
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Kingpin judging by the posts of yours that I have read you seem like a young, but also that you have lots to learn. Its good to heat that you fish with your dad as I wish my dad was a fisherman and we could have spent more time together before he passed away. Not really sure why I even have to defend myself with what I posted about my bar fishing success, if you don't believe why call BS? Maybe pick up a rod get out there and try, I've got my special spot and what works.
young yes, but i have fairly good knowledge in a broad range of methods...and as i said im not going to call you a liar, but you say you now have 20 fish hooked in a couple of weeks....all barfishing in the freshet.....
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Guys there is no way to verify the catch,even pics posted could be from previous yrs,if your as good as you say you are,i hope you are practicing catch and release.You are only allowed 10 springs per season! I don't believe it myself, but this is the internet ,anybody can say anything.So be it.As far as cacthing socks on a bar rig, i suppose the odd time it does happen.I prefer to catch my limit quickly bb when open and get off the water out of the zoo and home to relax.
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Guys there is no way to verify the catch,even pics posted could be from previous yrs,if your as good as you say you are,i hope you are practicing catch and release.You are only allowed 10 springs per season! I don't believe it myself, but this is the internet ,anybody can say anything.So be it.As far as cacthing socks on a bar rig, i suppose the odd time it does happen.I prefer to catch my limit quickly bb when open and get off the water out of the zoo and home to relax.
Geez guess I am different. I fish to get away from the Zoo and to relax. ;D
But then I don't BB the Fraser.
My advice is go fishing to have fun and relax. If it's B Bing or BAR FING that trips your trigger then do it.
As long as it is legal. Ethics are a different matter. Not going to get into it here.
20 springs BB during freshet...well I would think you would need to know a hot little spot that the springs travel through
and pound the crap out of it. Possible ::)
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If you want to catch a sockeye during the upcoming opening and retain it, get your bouncing betties ready,you ain't ever going to catch one on a bar rig setup.Can't wait to put some fresh socks in the boat,great fresh,smoked or canned!
It is seldom you take a sockeye on a bar rod but over many years we have taken a few. A couple of years ago Lucky came out on the Leaf Craft and hooked one, then the same year another forum member landed one on a FWR and Fish BC fish out. I guess I have seen 12 or 15 landed on the bar gear in 30 years.
I wish we could hook more that way, when they are open for retention.
I am going to write FOC and see if they plan to open the Harrison for sockeye like they did for 2 years some time ago.
It is great sport short floating them in the clear water using small bugs or krill as well it gives some of us a chance to fish for them too.
Shot some great video of a trip The Master and I made during one of the years they were open for retention.
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Good to hear a couple are begining to get caught on the bar setups. My wifes grandpa got one in the upper 20's yesterday barfishing, his first this year. I was hoping to get out myself tomorrow but its now looking like next weekend.
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If you want to catch a sockeye during the upcoming opening and retain it, get your bouncing betties ready,you ain't ever going to catch one on a bar rig setup.
Last year at mountain bar with in 5 minutes of putting my spin n' glow in the water I had a sockeye on, so the odd time they will bite in fresh water.
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I've gotten ALOT of sockeye on roe and a pink/orange colour of wool on the Vedder.
I believe I hooked around 22 last year in around as many days.
They moslty like to bite in crystal clear water but I suppose dirty water isn't impossible.
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I've gotten ALOT of sockeye on roe and a pink/orange colour of wool on the Vedder.
I believe I hooked around 22 last year in around as many days.
They moslty like to bite in crystal clear water but I suppose dirty water isn't impossible.
Yeah right buddy, you couldnt get none of them to bite. We did find quite a few sockeye heads along the beach.... :P
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Chrome Bar Ill pay the gas, and ill bring the beer. Take me out with yeah... ;)
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If i were you and found a honey hole to myself,i wouldn't even talk about it,unless you want everyone to find out. Loose lips sink big ships.
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That fish is a thing of absolute beauty. ;D
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There IS a way to confirm a catch. Take the picture with today's newspaper next to the fish...
Then write a ransom note...demanding a million dollars or you'll filet the sucker..
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that pic does not look like it was taken this year.... ;D just kidding buddy congrats on the success.
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any advice on how to locate the travel lanes?
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any advice on how to locate the travel lanes?
Look for the dotted white lines........ ;D ;D
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any advice on how to locate the travel lanes?
Here is a hint...they like to take the most direct route in the most preferable water
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Here is a hint...they like to take the most direct route in the most preferable water
What type of water is the most preferable for spring on Fraser?