Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: steelieman on September 22, 2005, 09:02:30 PM
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Friend of mine stopped by to watch the gong show at Keith Wilson bridge and could not believe that the amount of snagging happening here. Fishermen were snagging cohos and springs and nobody is saying anything about it.
To boot, these guys are keeping the fish too. It looks like its an acceptable way of fishing here!!!!!!!
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What else is new?? >:(
I get so mad when I hear this, just makes my blood boil. Thats why I stay away from these gong shows. I know I would end up in a fight and its not worth it. I suggest that if you see this call the DFO and take pictures if possible. Thats all we can do.
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This is the same thing that happens each year at KWB unfortunatley,it is just a carry over from the Fraser in most cases but at KWB it is a bit more noticeable in the narrow channel of water. I was there today just for a look and observed the same thing. :(
FOC will be there in due course in plain clothes and hand out some tickets as they do each year but it does not stop what your friend observed today.
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There is no difference from Bottom Bouncin' the fraser to Bottom Bouncin the Vedder. Snagging is Snagging people. Entice your fish into biting. Don't be a Beak!
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There should be 1 officer there checking at various times everyday, the amount of tickets handed out there everyday would probably cover his wages.
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Just a curious question.
To those people that stop by the KWB just to "observe".... why do so if it makes you mad.
We all know that spot is notrious for that. We all know that enforcement and education to that spot should be priority over watching "beeks" their. What I'm trying to say is when I drive down to Vancouver for what ever it is I'm doing... I don't stop by E. Hastings to see the drug addicts shoot themselves up with heroin and crack and tell all my friends that, and be ticked off because they are throwing their lives away and possibly endagering other ppl's lives.
My point is you know what goes on their, why drive out of your way...waste your own time...and energy.
Channel that energy and that time into educating or posting signs...for pete sake draw a picture and place it their on a huge board showing them how to fish and not to snag... just my 2 cents ;)
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well after reading all the posts about the mayhem at the bridge today :o i must agree with some of your views. not all fishermen partake in the snag fest. i fished for several hours down there today and did observe some insane antics going on around me. i did hook into a few springs wich were released back into the water. i did set one hook right in the mouth of nice chrome spring who is now in my frezzer. and no i did not floss or snag this baby. also took home a nice spring jack to bbq. ;D ;D. was not impresed with the school kids there on a school outing booting fish back in the water and all the dragging up the banks only to throw them back in. what are these teachers thinking by not supervising them or at least explainning proper fishing procedures to start with.did manage to stop and say hi to chris who was looking for rodney.hope you two had a good lunch.well gone to penticton for the weekend so tight lines and sharp hooks to all ;D ;D ;D
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I don't believe what I just read. By saying that fishfreak, you know that you just told everyone that You also permit of that Type of fishing educate, or I guess lack there of. What do you mean why should us fisherman care. Well the answer is, we care because we care about our river system, we care because we are real fisherman. We care because this type of attitude is spreading. We care because beeks that fish in that way with that attitude are going to ruin the fishery for all of us. Man get your head out of your my friend and watch what you say on the site. I don't really care if you do think that I am coming down on you hard, I've read allot of your other reports and I can say that they don't really impress upon me that you are not a beek. Do you even read the stuff you right before you post it >:( >:(
To everyone else i am sorry if this suddenly got heated. BUT THESE HACKS R GOING TO RUIN IT FOR US ALL. Even if they (beeks) stopped keeping the snagged hook fish, there is still way to many fish having their stomachs ripped open. I don't know what else to say Except for I was just going let this one go until fishfreak opened his BEEK!!!
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Everyone should call DFO & report what they see and see if enforcement there will improve. If not, then DFO needs to be hammered more until they respond. I guess we can do our share to educate newbies how to fish with different techniques. But how many of those newbies at KWB actually get on a fishing site to try to learn new things. Perhaps DFO should limit leader length on smaller systems as a starter. But if DFO doesn't want to do anything, what can anybody do. ??? They should be there consistently because KWB is notorious with these activities during coho season every year.
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DFO knows what's going on just like the FN fishery on the Fraser. They just don't care and don't enforce the regulations. Sorry to be so cynical.
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I don't believe what I just read. By saying that fishfreak, you know that you just told everyone that You also permit of that Type of fishing educate, or I guess lack there of. What do you mean why should us fisherman care. Well the answer is, we care because we care about our river system, we care because we are real fisherman. We care because this type of attitude is spreading. We care because beeks that fish in that way with that attitude are going to ruin the fishery for all of us. Man get your head out of your my friend and watch what you say on the site. I don't really care if you do think that I am coming down on you hard, I've read allot of your other reports and I can say that they don't really impress upon me that you are not a beek. Do you even read the stuff you right before you post it >:( >:(
To everyone else i am sorry if this suddenly got heated. BUT THESE HACKS R GOING TO RUIN IT FOR US ALL. Even if they (beeks) stopped keeping the snagged hook fish, there is still way to many fish having their stomachs ripped open. I don't know what else to say Except for I was just going let this one go until fishfreak opened his BEEK!!!
First of all Big Steel......FF is not a BEEK and don't assume that he permits that type of fishing. He may have not previewed what he typed, but i know him very well and he does not condone snagging fish. I believe he was trying to make a point why the people fish that way under KWB. If DFO is present and does nothing (knowingly that certain fish has been snagged & bonked) the fishermen down there will keep fishing the way they do cuz they think it's OK. So in turn "why should those fishermen care if DFO doesn't do anything about it". That's the bottom line......DFO must somehow enforce these certain "Hot spots" >:( or any system for that matter!
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did manage to stop and say hi to chris who was looking for rodney.
He was looking for me at the wrong place! ;D
Here's your photo Trev.
(http://www.fishingwithrod.com/albums/pepsitrev/100_0146.sized.jpg)
I'll be there at the cleanup and I will be sure to say a few things to the snaggers @ KWB from a safe distance though.
Now that's going to make a difference, quite a classy thing to do as well.
There is no difference from Bottom Bouncin' the fraser to Bottom Bouncin the Vedder. Snagging is Snagging people. Entice your fish into biting. Don't be a Beak!
I don't believe what I just read. By saying that fishfreak, you know that you just told everyone that You also permit of that Type of fishing educate, or I guess lack there of. What do you mean why should us fisherman care. Well the answer is, we care because we care about our river system, we care because we are real fisherman. We care because this type of attitude is spreading. We care because beeks that fish in that way with that attitude are going to ruin the fishery for all of us. Man get your head out of your my friend and watch what you say on the site. I don't really care if you do think that I am coming down on you hard, I've read allot of your other reports and I can say that they don't really impress upon me that you are not a beek. Do you even read the stuff you right before you post it >:( >:(
To everyone else i am sorry if this suddenly got heated. BUT THESE HACKS R GOING TO RUIN IT FOR US ALL. Even if they (beeks) stopped keeping the snagged hook fish, there is still way to many fish having their stomachs ripped open. I don't know what else to say Except for I was just going let this one go until fishfreak opened his BEEK!!!
One suggestion.
Quit the stereotyping, develop solutions that may improve the current state of the fisheries. Keep fighting like that on the internet, which has been going on for years, will result in nothing but higher blood pressures.
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how many times have we heard..."if you see an infraction...LOOK, OBSERVE, and RECORD....call DFO".
what more can you do if DFO is already there and they refuse to do anything about it? be a vigilante or martyr? ???
i also know FF and i will definitely vouch for him. he plays by the rules and he never does anything way out of line. he's right. if dfo makes the laws then it should be their responsibility and obligation to enforce them, but if they don't give a rat's my friend, what foundation do we have to stand on?
i remember not too long ago, i stuck my neck out and took a stance...look what it got me. a kick in the nards. so guess what? maybe its time for some of you to do the same, for a change.
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there is a certain group of fisherman out there who come by the store to buy gear for coho and vedder spring. they come in for bouncing betties and small corkies and wool. we tell them that float fishing is the accepted and "proper" way to entice a bite but they don't care, they simply just don't give a damn. It's , I buy my overpriced liscences, I deserve my fish. It is an new attitude, brought here from afar and unfortunately is not seemingly going to be fixed by education. like i said, they look at you with a blank look and buy the gear they know WILL catch a fish rather than the gear that offers them a CHANCE at a biting fish.
Fishing liscences need to go under the same treatment as hunting liscences. Mandatory fish identification and understanding of regulations and methods and schooling on edicit and conservation. Make people spend that much more for a course and exam and those of us who truly value our fishing will pay the costs, those hacks and beeks will hopefully find meat fishing too expensive.
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there is a certain group of fisherman out there who come by the store to buy gear for coho and vedder spring. they come in for bouncing betties and small corkies and wool. we tell them that float fishing is the accepted and "proper" way to entice a bite but they don't care, they simply just don't give a damn. It's , I buy my overpriced liscences, I deserve my fish. It is an new attitude, brought here from afar and unfortunately is not seemingly going to be fixed by education. like i said, they look at you with a blank look and buy the gear they know WILL catch a fish rather than the gear that offers them a CHANCE at a biting fish.
Fishing liscences need to go under the same treatment as hunting liscences. Mandatory fish identification and understanding of regulations and methods and schooling on edicit and conservation. Make people spend that much more for a course and exam and those of us who truly value our fishing will pay the costs, those hacks and beeks will hopefully find meat fishing too expensive.
i understand your concern with the bouncing betties, but aren't corkies, and especially wool a common staple of salmon fishing? ???
i totally agree with the mandatory fish identification and fishing etiquette course (prior to purchasing licenses) but i don't necessarily agree in turning our industry into an elitist sport where only the wealthy can afford to fish. that's not right either.
what needs to happen is a revision of the rules and regulations and stricter enforcement of them.
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i can feel the love.
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:o get them purses ready(CAT-FIGHT) ;D ;D
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I can understand the emotion/passion presented in several different posts here....one thing we all agree on is that there is a problem that needs to be addressed. Sitting back in our arm chairs is no longer acceptable...it never was.
To the guys with the attitude of "if DFO doesnt care, why should I", well I'll ask you this: are you happy with what you see on our rivers? If DFO wont aggressively attack the problem and neither will you as an individual, then where do you think our fishery is headed?
Someone on this site decided that DFO doesnt do enuff for stream/habitat restoration and from that the Vedder River Clean group was formed.
So to the people who think they can't make a differnce so why bother. Well, your inaction makes you as neglegent as the DFO - we all can be advocates and have a positive impact on our sport and the resource!
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Nice pic. That should increase the yahoo factor on the weekend by a few hundred. I was there yesterday, everyone, young
and old is doing the drift and lift trick. You expect this stuff every year from the young kids and the gang of locals on the grass. Not cool to yell across the river and threaten to throw guys in, but if you choose to fish in a circus, expect clowns.
Fun for a few hours but stressful if you are alone. You will be muscled out of the very small productive area. When this happens, stand on the bridge and watch the antics for real entertainment. Many fish are dagged up on the grass by the dorsal, coated with mud and thrown back down on the logs. If DFO cared about fish being molested, they would simply post the area closed.
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Something does need to be done but i don't think there is any one thing that is going to make a significant difference,yes better dfo enforcement would be a start combined with mandatory education of the resource , also some friendly advice to newcomers occasionally wouldn't hurt either,i know not all people on the river take kindly being told what not to do etc but if only a small portion of these people listen and learn we are still better off.The main problem is the rising population in the mainland which contributes to more people on the rivers ,the more people on the river results inevitably in more undesirables and newcomers to our systems and its only going to get worse as time goes by.I remember twenty years ago on the river there were significantly less fisherman and poaching and the lack of ethics was still there but not to the extent it is today.As for closing down kwb ,i disagree , this type of fishing goes on all over the river , maybe not as bad but if you start closing down parts of the river were do you stop we don't need this to be a common form of fisheries management, :) :D
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easy to solve...have that section of the river closed to fishing. Lots of rivers have such places closed where the fish get totally stacked up and are too easy of a target.
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I had to delete a couple of posts this morning. Just because you have a different opinion on an issue, it doesn't make those who disagree with you any worse than you. This issue obviously can get people involved emotionally, but I would suggest to minimize the personal attacks and focus on the issue if anyone wants changes.
Although I employ different fishing methods to those who fish at the more popular locations, my main concern is not how fish are caught on the Vedder River. Who am I to tell other people how to fish? Who am I to tell people that my way is the correct way, when people are simply doing what the regulations allow them to do? The last thing I would do, would be to venture down to Keith Wilson Bridge and start preaching to each individual on the "correct fishing method". Why not? Well, I'm do not wish to be yelled at, beaten up, stabbed over a fishing method. Instead, I prefer to share what has been successful for me to others, who have the intelligence to choose whether they would like to try it or not.
Please don't confuse the above view with snagging, which involves repetition of strong rod jerks in short intervals. Under those situation, a call to the ORR line would be your best option.
My main concern is the treatment of released fish.
Yesterday while waiting to have lunch with Chris, we ventured down to just below Keith Wilson Bridge to get some photos that I wanted. Several observations that we made, seem very consistent and strange. The thoughts will follow this series of photos below.
(http://www.fishingwithrod.com/albums/album34/050923_1.jpg)
(http://www.fishingwithrod.com/albums/album34/050923_2.jpg)
(http://www.fishingwithrod.com/albums/album34/050923_3.jpg)
(http://www.fishingwithrod.com/albums/album34/050923_4.jpg)
(http://www.fishingwithrod.com/albums/album34/050923_5.jpg)
Itosh and I had the same question. Why do people start walking back, and REALLY far back, when there is still so much line between the rod tip and the float? Wouldn't it make more sense to reel some more line in so you can reach the fish more easily?
The fish are usually dragged onto the mud bank. Once the fish stops flopping, the individual walks back to the fish, casually takes out the hook and nudges the fish back into the water with his foot.
If this was a fish to be kept, I would not question the actions. I personally do not mess around with a fish that I intend to harvest. It usually gets scopped up onto the beach with my hands or legs, before a quick bonk on the head to end things as quickly as possible.
On the other hand, if a fish is to be released, I will do my best to make sure that fish remains in the water at all time. Usually I bring the fish into the shallows so it would turn sideway slightly. This provides me an opportunity to tail the fish. The rod and reel usually go in the water if two hands are needed, the least I can provide a released fish is to ensure its safe return into where it belongs.
Improper release is an violation of the fishery regulations, which can lead to fines and confiscation of the angler's fishing equipment. The actual physical damage to a fish when its body is scrapped on the mud and sand is unknown, I think it is often exaggerated by those who condemn these actions. Salmon are tough, if they can withstand and escape from predation by seals, killer whales, bears, and the pounding of river rapids then a brief moment on land should not do a great deal of harm. However, is it necessary when you have the opportunities and equipment (waders) to avoid these stresses?
An easy way to prevent this from happening is to ask the angler if assistance is needed when he or she is attempting to land a fish. Usually the response would be positive. The message of proper catch and release will eventually be passed on.
A couple of years ago, I wrote up an article on proper catch and release, you can find it here (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/articles/2002/0202_01.html).
The other main problem with crowded fishing spots. as mentioned before, was the accumulation of garbage. I hope, those who are so concerned about the mayhem at Keith Wilson bridge, will attend our Vedder River Cleanup on Sunday after some first light fishing action. A few words make some noises, a few actions make some differences. I'll see you on Sunday.
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Itosh and I had the same question. Why do people start walking back, and REALLY far back, when there is still so much line between the rod tip and the float? Wouldn't it make more sense to reel some more line in so you can reach the fish more easily?
I often see this with beginners. Perhaps they aren't well versed in the proper technique of fighting a fish. My .02
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OK so I will start with this, I was quite teed off when I read the post from fishfreak. Now I have read his report again as well as what I had posted. Fishfreak, you have some people in on this site that will vouch for your fishing ethic, and while I may not agree with it at times, who am I to judge if I don't see it first hand. So, I will give you the benefit of the doubt. I am sorry for coming down on you like that. You may have just meant that "why should the OTHER fisherman care if dfo doesn't". But the way it was posted made it sound like that was your view as well. So if that is not your view, then I am sorry. I do know that I myself many times have tried to "inform" fisherman of the regs, and that you don't have to snag/floss to catch fish. Some cared most didn't. As for making fishing an elite pastime, I know that I couldn't afford much more in the line of courses or extra tags for specific salmon. There has to be a better way of reducing the amount of indecent behavior on the river, not just at that spot but at limit hole, and Allison pool among others. But for know I will just have to take my cell and make calls everytime I see something. Maybe with enough outcry from the real fisherman, dfo won't be able to sit and do nothing.
To everyone else, sorry about the earlier post, I'm Scottish. I get fired up sometimes!!!!!
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It won't be long before this river is flyfishing only.
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I can understand the emotion/passion presented in several different posts here....one thing we all agree on is that there is a problem that needs to be addressed. Sitting back in our arm chairs is no longer acceptable...it never was.
To the guys with the attitude of "if DFO doesnt care, why should I", well I'll ask you this: are you happy with what you see on our rivers? If DFO wont aggressively attack the problem and neither will you as an individual, then where do you think our fishery is headed?
Someone on this site decided that DFO doesnt do enuff for stream/habitat restoration and from that the Vedder River Clean group was formed.
So to the people who think they can't make a differnce so why bother. Well, your inaction makes you as neglegent as the DFO - we all can be advocates and have a positive impact on our sport and the resource!
so what would you do? you see an infraction, report it to a dfo present at the time and place of the offense, then he does nothing about it..... honestly. what can you do?
things always seem easier in hind sight, but unless you've been in that situation before, you can't possibly know or say how you would react.
if keeping the peace is negligent, does that mean you'll be the first to go to KWB and confront those who are guilty of breaking the rules?...sounds like that's where you're coming from. does it also mean that if dfo doesn't enforce the laws, that it's our responsibility to take it into our own hands?
big difference between a coalition of river cleanup...and a posse out to enforce the law.
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Hey let them fish there more clowns away from my spots. Yes it's bad and someone needs to report to DFO. But if we were to close down the canal portion of the river they would find alot more places to abuse the fish. That's not the only spot where they stack up.
Birdman, please READ!
One suggestion.
Quit the stereotyping, develop solutions that may improve the current state of the fisheries. Keep fighting like that on the internet, which has been going on for years, will result in nothing but higher blood pressures.
That is a selfish and disappointing attitude coming from a young fisher such as yourself. >:( You do realize when people first get into fishing, they often need others to teach them the proper way to do it? It does not benefit anyone by being ignorant. The angling community is a small one, and requires the cooperation of EVERYONE to sustain the quality it should have. If all continue to act by displaying the "I'm better than you" attitude, then you might as well kiss the future of fishing goodbye.
Harsh words, but need to be said. You're fishing the Vedder on Sunday right? I expect to see you and your family attending the cleanup in between the fishing?
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Rod I will be out on the river on sunday, I will be picking up allot of garbage bring extra garbage bags for it, but I am not driving so I will just clean up the areas that we fish. I don't know if my buddies are going to the meeting place or not. Besides, I'll have plenty of time for clean-up. I'm gonna get my fish early!!!!!! RIGHT like that's gonna happen. Anyhow, I'll give a report, and clean up. I know that one spot we go to get pretty bad sometimes on the trail in. Campers I guess.
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Oh ya and I might even stop down at KWB and yell at some people, throw them around you know. NOT, I will stay away from there all year. ;) ;) I have a bad temper and the best way for me to stop the temper is to stay away from those spots. Besides I love being in a good mood. KWB, along with a couple other spots doesn't help that out so much. ::) ::)
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hey big steel im heading to the ved sunday too. im gonna just clean the areas i fish. hope to see you out ther :)
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I note a few posters above are planning to do some cleanup of the areas they are fishing. If you need garbage bags you can pick them up at The Great Blue Heron Nature Reserve parking lot starting around 8:30.
Also there will be some one to help unload your garbage in the dumpster that is located by the caretakers residence at the GBHNR up to around 12:30.
Thanks guys for helping out.
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No need to be sorry birdman, the point of my previous post was to remind people that we all have to start somewhere. Those who are more experienced should be bridging the gap between the newcomers and them, otherwise who will be passing on the fishing knowledge?
Thanks for all in advance for cleaning up this weekend. :)
Sunday is Rivers day, it's a day for all to celebrate the existance of our rivers.
Everyday should be a celebration of the existance of our rivers.
Keeping the rivers clean doesn't just benefit the fish and fishing. It improves the health of those who live in the watershed, those who use the water for drinking and other purposes. It boosts the economy of communities such as Chilliwack.
Like Chris said, you can also drop by the Great Blue Heron Nature Reserve to get garbage bags. We want people to sign up so we can have an accurate head count of Sunday's participation. The fishing will probably be slow after 8am anyways, so it would be a good time killer before the evening bites come on again.
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Big Steel
Observed the gong show at Kieth Wilson bridge and my conclusion was that theres not a fisherman in the bunch. All I saw was a lot of long line dredging, and a lot of miss handled fish. I cannot imagine any experienced angler fishing in those conditions. I drove the upper Chilliwack today and observed the long line snagging going on at the Tamihi rapids and just below the cement slab at the limits hole. To the guys with the sunglasses perched on the rocks waitng for fish to move through their area I hope your all busted.
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Buck Buck Buck. Don't get me started on that again. I said my piece. I am done with it. I will fish my semi-secluded runs and if anyone comes along that fishes that way then I will choose what to do at that time. I am not going to go to the meat holes and let myself get ticked off. I know that it is happening all over the river, and every time I see it, if I can get reception, I will call dfo. Whether they will do anything about it who knows!!!!! :-\
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Who am I to tell people that my way is the correct way, when people are simply doing what the regulations allow them to do?
There is the issue. The only true solution is to lobby to change the regulations.
CJ.