Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: Gaffer on December 20, 2009, 12:27:01 PM
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A recent study put out by the ODFW ( Oregon Dep't of Fish & Wildlife ) states that commercial fish egg cures used by many in pursuit of Pacific West Coast Salmon are killing salmonid smolts in the process as the SODIUM SULFITE used in the preserving process is toxic when ingested by the immature salmon The Report can be accessed @ " ODFW NR On Curedeggs as bait 12-16-09.doc " Very Enlightening reading---- Tight Lines/Sharp Hooks
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thanks for sharing the info.
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Another reason to have a bait ban on our rivers!
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I wonder how birds (water ouzels, gulls, eagles) are affected also?
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Good question Dave....I have often wonderered that also as I see my favourite winter bird the "dipper", ouzel picking up eggs that I know were dropped in the water from someone's bait box or off my own bait lure. Haven't read all the study on the ouzel that you gave me, but what an interesting bird! They have given me much enjoyment on the river over many decades.
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I've been wondering for a couple of years if the cures are also harmful to adult fish. What about the wild Steelhead who gulp the roe?
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Interesting thought Morty. I'm guessing here but I think because migrating/spawning salmonids stomachs atrophy and most certainly are not functioning normally (not digesting food) they may be OK. Having said that, it also means anything ingested does not pass through, so ..... way more studies needed on this topic!
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All the more reason not to use commercial egg cures. Use straight borax and you'll catch just as many fish. There are other ways to cure roe, by using brown sugar, using salt, using jello, etc.
Never liked the commercial stuff turning everything red/pink including the fingers.
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YA my laundry room sink is still bright pink try explaining that to the wife. :-\
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I have never used anything but salt until recently, I thought I would try a store-bought product (pro-cure) for the added color. Made nice roe but careful with this stuff for it will turn anything pink.
Anyway, after reading this thread and the article I pulled it (the pro-cure) out to read the label and there is no ingredients list but it does say "sulfite-sensitive people and pets may have a severe allergic reaction to the product". At the bottom it says "in case of emergency call pro-cure @ 503-363-1037. This seems a bit odd to me. I think I would call 911 first. It is probably the phone # to the companies lawyer or something.
So I am not sure about this stuff so I guess I will just throw it out.
Does any body know what exactly this chemical is? sodium sulfite
So is borax is ok, for sure?
How could a guy add color to his eggs at home without using commercial products?
Happy Holidays!!
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Here's what I found out about sodium sulphite:
Sodium Sulfite is a White crystalline or powder; readily soluble in water, decomposes on heating. It is prepared from sulfur dioxide and sodium carbonate or caustic soda. It is a strong reducing agent and reacts with oxidants. It is primarily used in pulp and paper industry. It is used in water treatment as an oxygen scavenger agent , in the photographic industry to protect developer solutions from oxidation, in textile industry as a bleaching, as a desulfurizing and as a dechlorinating agent and in leather trade for the sulfitization of tanning extracts. It is used in chemical manufacturing as a sulfonation and sulfomethylation agent. It is used in the production of sodium thiosulfate. It is use in other applications include ore flotation, oil recovery, food preservative, making dyes, and detergent. It forms a bisulfite adduct with aldehyde and with ketones to a sulfonic acid.
Sounds pretty safe............................................NOT!!! >:( I think I'm done with Pro-Cure, too. :-\
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I've been wondering for a couple of years if the cures are also harmful to adult fish. What about the wild Steelhead who gulp the roe?
I don't know about the wild fish, but the stuff is lethal on the hatchery adult fish that I catch. No sooner are they into shore than they develop a headache and start bleeding from the gills!
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I have never used anything but salt until recently, I thought I would try a store-bought product (pro-cure) for the added color. Made nice roe but careful with this stuff for it will turn anything pink.
Anyway, after reading this thread and the article I pulled it (the pro-cure) out to read the label and there is no ingredients list but it does say "sulfite-sensitive people and pets may have a severe allergic reaction to the product". At the bottom it says "in case of emergency call pro-cure @ 503-363-1037. This seems a bit odd to me. I think I would call 911 first. It is probably the phone # to the companies lawyer or something.
So I am not sure about this stuff so I guess I will just throw it out.
Does any body know what exactly this chemical is? sodium sulfite
So is borax is ok, for sure?
How could a guy add color to his eggs at home without using commercial products?
Happy Holidays!!
No Scientific studies done on Borax but it like Salt is a naturally occuring product so I assume in low fish weight to amount of product ratio's it's relatively safe----- Tight lines
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read the report dont "skim "it....if you feed salted roe or even apples to smolts for 23 days they will also die.
where is the control in this test? same fish different pond different food , to compare to
sounds tilted to me.
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read the report dont "skim "it....if you feed salted roe or even apples to smolts for 23 days they will also die.
where is the control in this test? same fish different pond different food , to compare to
sounds tilted to me.
Agreed.
As I mentioned on FlyBC this study has many faults. Not peer reviewed, vague details of procedures, variables poorly defined, controlled parameters not listed, etc.
Also if you read through Nervo69's post you will see that NaSO3 (sodium sulfite) is used as a food preservative. We all ingest it regularly.
Borax is another Sodium salt. Either sodium borate, sodium tetraborate, or disodium tetraborate. And again in relatively small doses it is safe. Sodium Borate is used in the Gardisil brand HPV vaccine. (Wikipedia is great for this sort of information)
What needs to be done is a series of experiments to determine the LD50 (lethal dose 50% of the time) of sulfites on fish. Then they would need to correlate that number to a mass of cured bait or number of eggs. Until then they are probably better off not releasing their non-peer reviewed, psuedoscience papers.
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read the report dont "skim "it....if you feed salted roe or even apples to smolts for 23 days they will also die.
where is the control in this test? same fish different pond different food , to compare to
sounds tilted to me.
So many unpublished peudo-scientists giving opinions so little time-- I prefer to err on the side of caution towards the fish-- artificials or raw bait---both have worked well for many years for me ----- Cheers Hotrods
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Had one cat that ate sodium sulfite cured eggs every time I left them out, he lived to be 21 yrs. old, borax can be used for ant poison, I don't trust any scientific study unless I know who's paying for it and what they are trying to prove. If you want to colour your eggs try raspberry or cherry freshie although the sugar content will harden them after a day or two, never tried the diet freshie sweetened with Splenda but who knows it may be poison to something it sure taste like it.