Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: mark on May 04, 2006, 11:09:11 PM
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Well I was walking along the vedder canal with my wife because it was such a glorious day outside and to my surprize the trout truck was there from the hatchery. I watched him as he released hundreds of steelhead smolts into the vedder and I must say it was a pretty sight. Hats off to the hatchery, keep it up guys good to see. Although the hatchery guy was telling me the biggest mistake ever done to that river was the introduction of those musty smelling whites. They are hurting the coho numbers in the river. Put no limit on those suckers. Well 4 a day but no size limit. ;)
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Not that I like the big Whites all that much, I dont think they have much to do with Coho numbers in the Vedder. They may make it harder to find Coho but the Coho are still there. I prefer to fish Coho and Spring Jacks in early September before the big beasts move in. I move to other venues for Coho in October and on.
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It is the reason it so happens when the coho and chinnok are fry the chinooks are more aggresive than the coho , so therefore the chinook take more of the food supply and push the coho out. Chinook are by nature more aggressive and its all about survival of the fitest. Also because they are not native to the vedder they are disrupting natures balance in that ecosystem.
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the whites dont really effect the coho runs. theres just so many whites. but if you go at the right time, before all the big whites, you can find incredible coho fishing. i remember about 3 years ago my dad and i were fishing a secret spot on the vedder..yes a secret spot ;D, and must have hooked about 40 coho between the 2 of us and 1 spring caught. exactly a week later, the run was full of big whites and only got 2 coho.
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whites are fun ;D but coho are funner ;)
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Well then how do you explain the numbers in the hatchery decreasing in numbers every year? And yes it is.
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Reduction of hatchery coho production due to funding and fear of interaction between wild and hatchery fish. See:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=8311.msg76417#msg76417
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Mark
Coho returns to the Chilliwack Hatchery last season only totaled about 7500 fish compared to a normal return of between 20 - 40 k. Ocean survival rates are down and we will probably see a poor season for 2006. Washington State is predicting survival rates between 0 - .8 % for coho. In the mid eighties survival rates for coho ranged between 10 - 15 % just for comparison.
On a more positive note Steelhead returns this year have been the best in a number of year. Sixty to seventy spawner's were counted at the outlet of Chilliwack Lake. Again, the best in a number of year.
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Ok thats fine and dandy but the bottom line is if you start screwing around with nature by adding non native species you are upsetting the balance. There not there for a reason, natural selection. ;)
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mark im with you , just wonder if the whites disrupt the coho spawning beds because of there agresive behavior
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KO
Chilliwack Whites are mainstem spawners and do not interfere or disturb coho spawning sites. Coho for the most part spawn in small tributaries usually in areas not frequented by chinook. Very few white chinook are found upstream above the hatchery where the majority of coho are found.
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Thanks ko at least someone is and understands my point. And Buck I am a fisheries tech and trust me I know what I'm talking about. No offence. ;)
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Mark, which organization do you work for as a fishery technician?
I would like to think Buck knows his numbers. After all, he is the person who has been raising these fish on the Chilliwack River for decades.
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Mark, which organization do you work for as a fishery technician?
I would like to think Buck knows his numbers. After all, he is the person who has been raising these fish on the Chilliwack River for decades.
I am going to have to second Rodney on this one, I have full faith in Buck, and his many, many years of hands on experience!! ;)
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;)Yea but Buck is old and grumpy after dealing with the "townies" for all of these years. Besides, I thought it was "Jim" who was rearing all of those fish. Right Pete ::)
BK in Squamish.
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BKK
Did you have to bring the "OLD" word into the equation. Everyone keeps asking me if I have retired yet. I still have a few more things I would like to accomplish before leaving. One more shot at collecting indiginous red chinook in the upper Chilliwack for one.
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Mark
No offense taken but the reality of removing or ceasing production of transplanted Harrison White as well as Chilliwack Red chinook would all but reduce our/your fishery to coho and steelhead only. Coho survivals are in the toilet and we may be there for some time unless ocean survivals increase.
Production of juveniles from the mainstem spawning of white chinook is very low as these fish are not adapted to our system. Returns of adults are 95 % hatchery fish and about 5% from natural production. Juveniles from the red chinook spawning are just about nil as they come out of the gravel in February when there is no food for them to eat.( Transplats from the Prince George area )
You should see a reduction of returning white chinook to the system as we have reduced production to a release of about 1.2 million from a high of 2.2 M.
As Dr Brannon said last weekend , " If you want to have salmon 20 years from now, you had better have hatcheries in your plans".
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Well said Buck, Yes very true I was making a simple point at the beginning. I agree with what you said but at the same time you must agree with the idea that white chinooks can have a serious impact on the natural species. ;)
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I'll third that, Buck knows the score... He's worth his weight, and a great rod too!
:D
Nicole
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Coho only is fine with me by the way. I don't care to fish for whites they smell too much.
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Nicole
Remember that 11' Blackhawk rod you tied for me a number of years ago? My wife drove over it with the car and it's a little worse for wear. Caught a lot of springs with that rod and hated to see it go that way.
PB
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Mark
I agree with you about catching white chinooks. There big ,smell and really don't fight that well unless your in the pond and trying to pick them up. Coho fishing is by far more challenging and lets hope we have a good season this fall. I do like to catch chinook jacks as they provide a good fight and take bait readily. Catch and release only with long needle nose pliers .
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Production of juveniles from the mainstem spawning of white chinook is very low as these fish are not adapted to our system. Returns of adults are 95 % hatchery fish and about 5% from natural production.
Interesting - how was this 95/5 number determined?
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RalphH
We mark all of our white chinook with a thermal mark to enable us to identify them when they return to the hatchery. Progeny of chinook that spawn in the wild do not have this thermal mark and can be identified readily.
Thermal marks are applied to alevins by adjusting the water temperature by up to 3 degrees for a period of 24 hours for a 10 day period. ( warm, cold, warm, cold etc.) These marks show up on the otolith and look very much like rings on a tree and can be easily counted .
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cool
:)