Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Roderick on November 15, 2018, 02:56:01 PM
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Too soon? Lol
I have a couple of questions that I'm hoping people can answer.
1. Does anybody really know why there are no pinks on the even years in the lower mainland when they run every year on the Island and elsewhere?
2. With all the hatchery pinks out there, why do we not have a program to restock lower mainland systems with pinks from other systems on the even years? A single year of stocking systems like the c/v and Squamish would almost certainly establish a run, and with pinks being a strict 2 year fish it's not like there would be any competition with the existing wild runs.
Thanks
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2. With all the hatchery pinks out there
I'm not aware of a pink salmon hatchery program. Certainly there habitat enhancement projects (i.e spawning channels) but I'm not aware of a hatchery program for pinks.
Which ones were you thinking of?
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They do hatchery pinks on the Campbell River system out of Quinsam hatchery for mid Van Island streams. They also do pinks out of Tenderfoot Hatchery for the Squamish system.
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They do a very small amount at the cap Hatcher as well
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They do hatchery pinks on the Campbell River system out of Quinsam hatchery for mid Van Island streams. They also do pinks out of Tenderfoot Hatchery for the Squamish system.
You would know, bkk :) Thanks!
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I do know that they stocked Brothers Creek and the Cap in 2013 which produced a huge return in 2015.
Putting even year Quinsam fish in to Squamish, c/v, etc. would be easy and relatively cheap. So why hasn't it been done?
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Nature doesn’t do consistency. All animal populations go in peaks and valleys. Rabbits peak and coyotes follow and then peak, rabbit populations go into a valley and coyotes follow. The rabbit forage has a chance to recover without being eliminated and the cycle continues. If the salmon populations were to be consistent the rivers would be stripped of smolt feed and the oceans would be stripped of whatever the adults feed on.
The only animal that insists on consistency is man. I am convinced that one of the causes of the salmon collapse is the billions of hatchery fish produced every year to make sure that the commercial fishery is consistent. The fresh water habitat never recovers and neither does the salt.
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In the 1920's there was a major landlside at hells gate that virtually stopped all pink salmon from reaching their spawning grounds , since then they only return in large numbers in odd years, you will very rarely catch one on even years but probably better chance at winning the lottery
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I have heard, and read several times, that the CNR railway construction in the Fraser Canyon caused a major slide at Hells Gate in 1914 (an even year). The slide prevented most of the salmon from getting to traditional spawning grounds that year. Of those that got through the ratio of males to females far exceeded a proper spawning balance. The pinks that could not make it past the slide and spawned in alternate river systems did not experience conditions that were conducive to their survival. The fish ladder at Hells Gate didn't begin construction until 1944. (my grandfather worked on it)
I have also heard that attempts were made to re-introduce an even year run without success. The brood stock needs to of course be brought from other river systems where the pinks seem to be pre-disposed to the: water, distance from ocean, and river bed conditions.
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check out Wikipedia "Hells Gate (British Columbia) "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hells_Gate_(British_Columbia) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hells_Gate_(British_Columbia))
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In the 1920's there was a major landlside at hells gate that virtually stopped all pink salmon from reaching their spawning grounds , since then they only return in large numbers in odd years, you will very rarely catch one on even years but probably better chance at winning the lottery
No. The large majority of Fraser watershed pinks spawn below Hope, let alone Hell's Gate.
Pinks were reintroduced to the South Alouette and to the Cheakamus where they werre pretty much extirpated after the construction of the Daisy Lake dam and the diversion of water to the north of the Chekamus.
Putting even year Quinsam fish in to Squamish, c/v, etc. would be easy and relatively cheap. So why hasn't it been done?
How do you know? Quinsam fish were enhanced to their current levels over many years. The Campbell/Quinsam system is considerable different and there is no surety a transplant would work.
People also forget that our fisheries management is moving away from this sort of initiative. Like or not.
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Nature doesn’t do consistency.
It does on many other systems where there are pinks every year.
I am convinced that one of the causes of the salmon collapse is the billions of hatchery fish produced every year to make sure that the commercial fishery is consistent. The fresh water habitat never recovers and neither does the salt.
You might be right, but do you have any actual evidence to back up your convictions?
To be clear I am not suggesting a hatchery program beyond a brood year or two. Pinks are by far the best of all the species of pacific salmon at establishing themselves in new rivers, at least rivers with decent spawning grounds (unlike the Cap). There was even news last year or the year before of a pair of pinks spawning in a river in Scotland :o . The locals weren't very happy about those invasive pinks I would think.
After the initial stocking, if/when the pinks established a run it would be wild and subject to the natural predator/prey interactions you mentioned.
If you are suggesting that lower mainland rivers are better off without an even year pink run then I must strongly disagree. There is a gaping hole in the ecological structure and the whole environment would benefit from pinks being there.
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No. The large majority of Fraser watershed pinks spawn below Hope, let alone Hell's Gate.
For once I agree with you Ralphy. It also doesn't explain why systems like the Indian and the Squamish don't have even year pink runs.
How do you know?
Obviously I can't know. The only way to find out for sure is to try. Bring them here as eyed eggs, hold them as alevin in the water of the river being stocked, and then release them near areas known to be utilized by spawning odd year pinks. Should work just fine.
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maybe you can raise the funds required.
It does on many other systems where there are pinks every year.
Not many rivers or creeks have large returns in both years. Many have very small or non-existent runs in one year or the other.
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Raising pinks is small change compared to raising coho or springs since they don't (or barely) need to be fed. On systems with a successful wild odd year run and an existing hatchery, like Squamish or c/v, it's definitely worth a try.
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My father (at DFO) was involved with trying to introduce pinks in even years in Jones creek (late 60's).
Didn't work but they did find some of those Jones pinks two years later in a fish wheel above Hope.
Found a report here with some info: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00028487.2014.889747
Check out the last sentence:
Abstract
The hypothesis that abundance patterns differ between even- and odd-year returning Pink Salmon Oncorhynchus gorbuscha was examined using data from the eastern and western North Pacific Ocean, northern and southern British Columbia, and biologically based conservation units, which are Canadian groupings of salmon that are genetically and/or ecologically distinct from each other. Detailed data from(mostly) southern British Columbia were examined to test hypotheses that the differences between even- and odd-year broodlines were due to fishing, broodline interactions, limitations in freshwater or the ocean, and/or density dependence.
The odd-year broodline has become increasingly predominate over the genetically distinct even-year broodline on both sides of the Pacific and in five of six British Columbia regions. Five analytical approaches revealed abundances were generally increasing for odd-year conservation units and declining or stable for even-year conservation units. Recent increases in odd-year spawner abundance in southern British Columbia were correlated with decreased fishery exploitation, but exploitation was higher for odd-year than for even-year salmon, refuting the hypothesis that differential exploitation is responsible for the changing dominance. Significant negative interactions between even- and odd-year broodlines were found in several of the British Columbia regions tested, but there was little evidence of competition between broodlines in the marine environment.
Odd-year populations in the Fraser River increased despite density-dependent reductions in freshwater production, while there was no indication of changes in marine productivity. Our results, combined with literature findings indicating a more southerly glacial refugium for odd-year than for even-year Pink Salmon and temperature related survival differences between these broodlines, suggest that recent climate conditions are benefiting odd-year returning Pink Salmon more than even-year salmon, especially in the southern part of their range.
Didn't read the whole thing but there is a lot more info there.