Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: CohoJake on November 15, 2021, 08:37:19 AM
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It looks like this is shaping up to be a possible record flood of the Nooksack and Skagit rivers. Rod, I'd be very curious if Tamihi bridge looks like it did in 2006. Rivers don't respect boundaries right now - the Nooksack is flooding into the Sumas drainage to the north and the Samish drainage to the south, which I think is combining with the Skagit as well. When these big flood events occur, I am always curious what is going to happen to our favorite fishing spots and what new ones will develop. I fear this also means the pink salmon return for 2023 will be dismal, as the eggs in gravel are now being washed away or buried in mud. Everybody remember - don't drive across flooded roads, this is how the majority of casualties in floods occur. That said, if anyone has interesting pictures of high water to share from where they are, I'd love to see them.
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Events like this are why off channel refuge areas are so valuable.
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The Abbotsford portion of Sumas Prairie may flood - after all it's a drained lake bed.
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I have a good friend trapped on highway 7, he was coming back from hunting so he's got some supplies.
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How were the pink salmon runs following the past big floods? If they were decent after those floods, then there's hope.
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How were the pink salmon runs following the past big floods? If they were decent after those floods, then there's hope.
I think a good portion of the pinks spawn in mainstem of the fraser so it should be okay.
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Fraser is up 2 meters in hope so..... don’t know about that . Saw coquihalla hiway literally gone west bound at othello as well. I can’t remember the last time the vedder was this high maybe that big event around 2006ish I believe . I know the resident fish trout and whitefish seemed to take a serious hit as well. It was almost coming back the last couple seasons, too bad. Like dave said these side channel man made refuges are the only saving grace we have at this point . Only 3/4 smaller Natural spots I can think Of mid river from teskies to Osborn . I Wonder what the river looks like in the Centennial spawning channels at this height . Hopefully all is well up there .
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Literally pounded down heavy rain the past couple of days, seriously so yesterday & last night.
As bad as we had it, it appears others areas are getting even more:
Entire city of Merritt on evacuation order as flooding shuts down multiple highways
https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/significant-atmospheric-river-causing-rainfall-warnings-across-southern-b-c
Nog
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VIDEO: 290 homes in Princeton under evacuation as flooding causes chaos
https://www.thefreepress.ca/news/princeton-b-c-devastated-by-flood/
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A friend of mine sent me these, taken earlier today:
http://imgur.com/gallery/m3JW6Qe
Draw your own conclusions.
This is serious.
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Is that first pic the house at Wilson Rd that was just sold?
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A friend of mine sent me these, taken earlier today:
http://imgur.com/gallery/m3JW6Qe
Draw your own conclusions.
This is serious.
https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/23275937/4298-wilson-road-chilliwack
Yup same house
https://youtu.be/uG_n2Dz0NZQ
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The house is done. Total loss.
https://imgur.com/a/lt1lJ5s
I hope, with all my heart, that the new owners bought comprehensive insurance that included total loss from flooding.
:'(
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Very sad indeed Milo. I'd be heartbroken if I were the home owner.
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Just came back from the lower river this afternoon, mainly to check the spawning channels to see how they are doing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x6XszjZBnY
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Sigh... the last time I remember the Vedder being this high I made a bit of a prediction that it will destroy a lot of the spawned chum eggs and this was back in 2016-2017 I believe. Chris had a video of a giant log jam moving down river and that was very concerning for me.
As for other systems... Stave is so high that the bridge that goes across the spawning channel is covered in water and the floats at the damn (The big yellow ones) have broken free and are strewn across the main channel.
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Does anyone one know how it impacted salmon back when it flooded in 2006? Im wondering what the salmon numbers trend was like after 2006 ?
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It looks pretty gnarly out there but there's been lots of floods bigger than this since 1970 and the fish have found ways in the past.
Here are the max flows per year here: https://imgur.com/ln0WS5z (Most of these are in the fall as well)
This is why it's important to not cut off all the back/side channels since it's critical salmon habitat. We have a nasty habit of wanting to straighten out rivers and lock them into place. Floods like this are important reminders for why rivers must be allowed to move laterally.
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certainly true that the salmon do bounce back from these big flood events. It may have an effect at the end of the brood cycle when the adults come back but nature has many compensating features that allow for quick rebuilding of the population. I can't remember what year it was but there was a year maybe 20+ years ago with a big flood and it was thought to have all but wiped out the pink spawn. fishing was closed in the following return but 2 years after that there was another strong return. Some of that may be do to fish from the Fraser that moved into the V-C to spawn, hard to say but the dip didn't last long.
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Nice graph there, looks like 2006 was worst, Good to hear that Salmon does bounce back quickly! Certainly got to know the critical importance of these side channels
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https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/23275937/4298-wilson-road-chilliwack
Yup same house
https://youtu.be/uG_n2Dz0NZQ
so the lady and guy throwing rocks at fisherman (from the riprap) managed to sell her house before the flood?
https://youtu.be/QdbIZ5Gs9Fs
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so the lady and guy throwing rocks at fisherman (from the riprap) managed to sell her house before the flood?
https://youtu.be/QdbIZ5Gs9Fs
A video tells a story, but it doesn't always show the truth. Who knows what went on before and after it, I hope none of us feel like we are in a place to judge and wish having their house washed away is what they deserved.
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I mean there is that saying about Thoes in glass housing throwing stones.
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Everyone involved knows who the boss is now... the river.
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A video tells a story, but it doesn't always show the truth. Who knows what went on before and after it, I hope none of us feel like we are in a place to judge and wish having their house washed away is what they deserved.
well said Rodney
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I mean there is that saying about Thoes in glass housing throwing stones.
So what... If they continue to let people trespass and shat in their yard or harrass their dog, this wouldn't have happened? 🤨
Going back to that real estate video posted earlier, the first comment left in there mentions the names of the owners. I don't think the house was ever sold. This very likely is someone's entire saving, dream at one point but shattered by the ongoing harrassment. Nobody should be pleased with the outcome.
Edit: Just looked up the names. It's young couple with a little kid. House was listed for $1.5 million. I really hope this does not mean a total financial loss for the family.
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Here is a photo of the foot bridge over the spawning channel at Stave.
(https://scontent.fyvr3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/257939374_872558103458206_7909835751752269450_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=JqLrAerTVzsAX9b1CFu&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr3-1.fna&oh=643b6adc0a26e44513bf6fd4331a151e&oe=6198B422)
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According to FVRD, the Wilson Road dyke is 900m long and protects 20 properties and the Chilliwack River Road. While the photo shows one property, there are also many other families and homes impacted.
It’s hard to imagine the forces at play of almost an additional 3 metres of water and debris colliding head on with that massive rip rap dyke.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79ZZdsBpfTk
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79ZZdsBpfTk
Another testament to just how strong rivers and the forces of nature can be. We have a fun century ahead folks. Enjoy your massive carbon machines and lifestyle while you can.
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sorry I thought that was Peers creek - but it's Carolyn mines Sowqua Creek.
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a lot of risks to build on flood plain.
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I very much admired Quebec Premier LeGault's comment 1n 2019 that flood victims in the Gatineau area should move out of the flood plain where they had recently been flooded out twice in 2 years. To that end they offered no more than $100g for flood relief but $200g if they agreed to move. IMO Cities, Regional governments etc have been irresponsible in developing flood plain areas as have individuals and business in moving there. Invariably senior governments end up footing much of the bill for flood relief damage as people are either under insured or insurance companies cry the blues about defaulting The apparent increase in extreme weather events will accelerate this problem.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/gatineau-floods-ottawa-francois-legault-1.5106522
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/quebec-homeowners-say-200k-offer-to-relocate-from-flood-prone-areas-not-enough-1.4391692
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I very much admired Quebec Premier LeGault's comment 1n 2019 that flood victims in the Gatineau area should move out of the flood plain where they had recently been flooded out twice in 2 years. To that end they offered no more than $100g for flood relief but $200g if they agreed to move. IMO Cities, Regional governments etc have been irresponsible in developing flood plain areas as have individuals and business in moving there. Invariably senior governments end up footing much of the bill for flood relief damage as people are either under insured or insurance companies cry the blues about defaulting The apparent increase in extreme weather events will accelerate this problem.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/gatineau-floods-ottawa-francois-legault-1.5106522
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/quebec-homeowners-say-200k-offer-to-relocate-from-flood-prone-areas-not-enough-1.4391692
on the radio this morning they were are talking about building up the infrastructure not abandoning it, wonder what that means for fish areas going forward.
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So the Squamish Pinks were already low receives another blow from this storm?
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So the Squamish Pinks were already low receives another blow from this storm?
reading though some old dfo reports on streams from like the 1970. Lots of the notes are like: stream silted out do to logging 70% egg loss. Was that just a wild my friend guess or is some of this stuff quantifiable. I do not know.
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It's too bad all those properties on Wilson Road are affected. I don't think you can even get flood insurance for those properties. Most Insurance companies won't want to take such a risk.
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It's too bad all those properties on Wilson Road are affected. I don't think you can even get flood insurance for those properties. Most Insurance companies won't want to take such a risk.
had to show my bank proof on insurance before i could get a mortgage.
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had to show my bank proof on insurance before i could get a mortgage.
Insurance companies will sell fire insurance to just above everybody, but not flood insurance on properties below on flood planes. Hmm, may be I should sell some of my Insurance stocks ::)
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Insurance companies will sell fire insurance to just above everybody, but not flood insurance on properties below on flood planes. Hmm, may be I should sell some of my Insurance stocks ::)
fare enough i dont no what the banks are looking for in the insurance but i would think that if someone has a huge mortgage in a floodplain that they would not want to be left holding the bag on an unsellable property.
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So what... If they continue to let people trespass and shat in their yard or harrass their dog, this wouldn't have happened? 🤨
Going back to that real estate video posted earlier, the first comment left in there mentions the names of the owners. I don't think the house was ever sold. This very likely is someone's entire saving, dream at one point but shattered by the ongoing harrassment. Nobody should be pleased with the outcome.
Edit: Just looked up the names. It's young couple with a little kid. House was listed for $1.5 million. I really hope this does not mean a total financial loss for the family.
That wasn't my intention other to point out that the saying fit rather uniquely in this case.
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wowa,
https://www.facebook.com/582096162/videos/1164209287318065/
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The Abbotsford portion of Sumas Prairie may flood - after all it's a drained lake bed.
its back to being a lake
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Some pictures from BC Transportation flyover
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tranbc/albums/72157720143417483
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Damn! :'(
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one thing i did not hear being bought up is invasive species, wonder how this will spread them out.
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one thing i did not hear being bought up is invasive species, wonder how this will spread them out.
The stocked trout in Mill lake can go to the sea and come back as steelhead four years later
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Went over the Pattullo Bridge today and there were so much debris and trees on the Fraser river also the color of the water is mud
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Bodies pulled from landslide
Fatalities reported in mudslide north of Pemberton
(https://www.castanet.net/content/2021/11/monday-november-15-mudslide-duffey-lake-road-highway-99-between-pemberton-lillooet-bc-floods._p3561864.jpg)
Multiple people are dead after a mudslide swept over the Duffey Lake Road section of Highway 99 north of Pemberton on Monday morning, Nov 15.
https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/351765/Fatalities-reported-in-mudslide-north-of-Pemberton#351765
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River will be cleaned out of all the dead fish, what are the eagles going to eat?
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River will be cleaned out of all the dead fish, what are the eagles going to eat?
Maybe get them some of the thousands at the hatchery gate. ??
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Cultus lake is a disaster. Frosst creek was a giant angry river. So much debris on the shores of sunnyside campground.
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A video tells a story, but it doesn't always show the truth. Who knows what went on before and after it, I hope none of us feel like we are in a place to judge and wish having their house washed away is what they deserved.
Thank you for this.
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River will be cleaned out of all the dead fish, what are the eagles going to eat?
The fish corpses will be in the trees when the water recedes - they will be even easier picking.
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The fish corpses will be in the trees when the water recedes - they will be even easier picking.
Possibly the most logical response given to a question on FWR or elsewhere. And what an incredible and poignant picture that would make.
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https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/breaking-news-catastrophic-flood-warning-issued-as-pump-failure-leads-to-fraser-river-flooding
O crap…
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High tide tomorrow 13.5 feet at around 5am, then again 14 feet at 4 pm. The time to get out is now while the tide is low. I know the times are a bit different but you get the picture.
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https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/breaking-news-catastrophic-flood-warning-issued-as-pump-failure-leads-to-fraser-river-flooding
O crap…
That’s so bad my prayers go out that people with get out safe
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That’s so bad my prayers go out that people with get out safe
Looks like Sumas Lake is coming back.. Maybe the Sturgeon want their home back. Still tragic for all the people who lived and worked there. :'(
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Listening to the update this morning it sounds like the nooksack river in the states is flooding Sumas and then it's draining towards the fraser. If the fraser lowers more they can open the flood gates and overflow into the Fraser and help the pumps out
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one thing i did not hear being bought up is invasive species, wonder how this will spread them out.
don't know how many these days but in the day both the Sumas River and Lonzo creek (the little Sumas) had substantial populations of coho and chum spawning in the late fall. Whatever vestigial populations remain, this won't help them at all.
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I hope our friends south of the border are ok. I just read a lot Bellingham was under water too.
https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/article255860436.html
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I hope our friends south of the border are ok. I just read a lot Bellingham was under water too.
https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/article255860436.html
Nooksack and Everson got hit the worst, also Lynden, Ferndale and of course Sumas. My dad in Nooksack was about 1 inch from having water above the carpet - I'll be heading out there later to help with cleanup. I was nearly trapped south of Bellingham on Monday when I-5 was closed both directions due to mudslides, but apparently I knew the way around that nobody else was aware of.
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I have a background in water damage restoration and this is beyond the scope of anything I've ever seen. There's going to be a ton of remediation work and just on the structural drying alone and I highly doubt there's enough equipment or qualified technicians to handle this. If the buildings don't get serviced in the appropriate time window, mould will be an issue as long as there's a food source for it to feed on and produce mycotoxins. The aftermath is going to be bad too. Between the toxicity of what we were dealing with and the 20 hour shifts, I pulled the plug and started a business.
Everybody should prepare for a steep rise in your home insurance premiums whether or not you got hit. The insurance companies like to share the pain.
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A friend that was stuck in hwy7 and then got stuck I. Hope paid a boat 250 bucks to get him from hope to chilliwack
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https://www.theprogress.com/news/jet-boat-rides-on-offer-for-those-cut-off-from-communities-in-eastern-fraser-valley/
Some fishing guides were offering free rides today.
Well done boys!
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Very impressed with all the stories I've been reading of people helping each other. Nice change of pace in the news cycle I suppose
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https://www.theprogress.com/news/jet-boat-rides-on-offer-for-those-cut-off-from-communities-in-eastern-fraser-valley/
Some fishing guides were offering free rides today.
Well done boys!
X2
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I think that hundreds of people volunteered to spend the nights sandbagging the Barrowtown pump station are amazing heroes.
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/volunteers-praised-abbotsford-pump-station
as are those working to evacuate livestock from flooded farms. many animals have been trapped in deep water in flooded barns
https://globalnews.ca/news/8380864/abbotsford-bc-farmers-rescue-cattle-floodwaters/
thousands of animals are said to be already dead but thousands more have likely been saved.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE9lsThbaQk
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Saw some sharp photos of the Coquihalla damages tonight. At least three bridges of both lanes are gone.
One over the Coldwater River.
(https://scontent.fyvr4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/258177203_4633938729982897_8635109742496797294_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=QU-NAGO_PmkAX9XabwK&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr4-1.fna&oh=307fef107bdaf49bc7326ddefd5016fa&oe=619B954A)
With three washouts just north of it.
(https://scontent.fyvr4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/258510051_4633938589982911_2073301175075164512_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=cJOqJUTp7hIAX9wQx9M&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr4-1.fna&oh=f19f9066f7e5be1607950a66bf67c216&oe=619BEF46)
Another one at Carolin Mine Road.
(https://scontent.fyvr4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/258859915_4633939423316161_2800183799455536453_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=X8sTYTPVXrgAX8P5wuI&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr4-1.fna&oh=80505347cb10c46f59b61f878aaa6fac&oe=619B034B)
By Sowaqua Creek Road.
(https://scontent.fyvr4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/258723169_4633939469982823_7275570137101182527_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=j5AZMPI9EdQAX-W-L37&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr4-1.fna&oh=0ec1776c3ab518379d296f400df2ccce&oe=619AFB88)
Plus this big one by Othello Tunnel.
(https://scontent.fyvr4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/258843657_4633939729982797_8783574513139889524_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=V5K-aLu1-cAAX-6tO2B&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr4-1.fna&oh=fb96b2266fb7cf31c2e277d75a8f6530&oe=619B81C9)
And a bunch of other slides. You can see the rest of the photos here:
https://www.facebook.com/wildairphoto/posts/4633940783316025
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Yep coq will be down for while and certainly not back to normal for years.
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There are around 2.5km railway missing. another stab wound
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There are around 2.5km railway missing. another stab wound
where abouts?
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Salmon eggs swept away
https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/351976/Another-impact-of-floods-salmon-eggs-likely-swept-away-by-raging-water
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lots of those eggs and young salmon will get ground to paste in moving rocks and gravel.
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The picture with the 3 washouts shows that the highway was never designed with any armoring along its sides in the stretch. I wonder why they never armored it with rip rap
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Repairs to B.C.’s Coquihalla Highway will take months, especially during winter: province
https://globalnews.ca/news/8385471/repairs-coquihalla-highway-reopening-timeline/
'We are not out of this by a long shot': Up to 100mm of rain forecast for British Columbia
Cleanup and recovery of property, livestock and infrastructure begins in British Columbia
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/recovery-work-next-step-in-flooded-b-c-but-more-heavy-rain-expected-next-week
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B.C. limits gas purchases to 30L per visit in southern region as flooding impacts supply
B.C.’s public safety minister has enlisted two new provincial orders amid concerns of gas shortages in the province due to the devestating floods that hit southern B.C. this week.
In a news conference Friday (Nov. 19), Public Safety Minister Mike Farnworth announced that non-essential travel will be restricted on all highways impacted by washouts.
This means that highways impacted will be only open to those travelling to get home, as well as commercial and emergency vehicles.
Highways include:
Highway 99: from the junction of Highway 99 and Lillooet River Road to the BC Hydro Seton Lake Campsite access in Lillooet. Only passenger vehicles and commercial vehicles up to 14,500 kilograms will be permitted.
Highway 3: from the junction of Highway 5 and Highway 3 in Hope to the west entrance to Princeton from Highway 3.
Highway 7: from the junction of Highway 7 and Highway 9 in Agassiz to the junction of Highway 7 and Highway 1 in Hope.
Meanwhile, the public will be limited to purchasing 30 litres of gas per visit to gas stations in southwest B.C., Vancouver Island and Sunshine Coast.
Farnworth said there is a reduced but steady supply of gas and province is working with the feds to import gasoline in new ways.
“Carpool, share with a friend, walk, use alternative methods,” Farnworth said, adding to be kind to others.
www.aldergrovestar.com/news/b-c-limits-gas-purchases-to-30l-per-visit-in-southern-region-as-flooding-impacts-supply/
KeRist!! :o
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lots of those eggs and young salmon will get ground to paste in moving rocks and gravel.
In light of the low return of chum and their subsequent big loss of eggs in the rivers by this huge flood, should the hatcheries increase their chum egg production if they have more chum in the hatchery than their original target. That will help make up for the loss of eggs in the river.
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In light of the low return of chum and their subsequent big loss of eggs in the rivers by this huge flood, should the hatcheries increase their chum egg production if they have more chum in the hatchery than their original target. That will help make up for the loss of eggs in the river.
At least one hatchery will be increasing production but I would like to see much more emphasis on hatchery chum production from all coastal hatcheries. A very cheap bang for the buck ecosystem boost, imo.
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Repairs to B.C.’s Coquihalla Highway will take months, especially during winter: province
https://globalnews.ca/news/8385471/repairs-coquihalla-highway-reopening-timeline/
More like a year...
Considering Coquihalla winter weather, it's going to be months just getting: new engineering, construction plans drawn and approved, and the backfill, foundations and bridge piers secured. In addition to that there's the pre-cast concrete beams for the bridge.
I personally know an executive in the pre-cast concrete industry and those big bridges that we commonly see in the washout pictures will require at least 30 huge beams for each direction. Even when they do have blueprints and specifications they then need to fabricate molds, then pre-load the mold with tensioning cables, pour the concrete, let it cure enough for the huge beam to be pulled from the mold, then re-condition & re-set the mold to pour beam #2.... That can take a few days per pour. Each beam has to additionally cure at the plant for 28 days before it can be transported to the bridge site. Multiply that all out for 60 beams. (when they originally built the highway the plants had designs a year befor the beams were needed) All that time only gets the beams to the site, there still needs to be: a roadway poured on top, railings, safety barriers,.....
There's very few plants that can make those beams and they're all presently in the midst of contracts for building beams and panels on other projects with timelines. So even if there were blueprints and spec available soon it could be months before they can even start the first beam.
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Isn't the military good at building temporary bridges? Just a thought.
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Isn't the military good at building temporary bridges? Just a thought.
Seems like it would be very challenging to build permanent replacement roadway with temporary structures nearby.
The builders of the actual replacement structures ,are going to need to create, or re-open, temporary gravel extraction pits and works yards as well as at least one each of concrete and asphault plants.
The pricetage for remediating that rainstorm damage is going to make the total COVID related pricetag look small :'( :'(
the New Normal Climate is bad enough now at 1.1 degrees above pre-industrial, and some world leaders are willing to not stop at +1.5 (which IMHO will be worse than today) but they're willing to target +2 or +2-1/2 degrees. :( :( :(
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More like a year...
Considering Coquihalla winter weather, it's going to be months just getting: new engineering, construction plans drawn and approved, and the backfill, foundations and bridge piers secured. In addition to that there's the pre-cast concrete beams for the bridge.
I personally know an executive in the pre-cast concrete industry and those big bridges that we commonly see in the washout pictures will require at least 30 huge beams for each direction. Even when they do have blueprints and specifications they then need to fabricate molds, then pre-load the mold with tensioning cables, pour the concrete, let it cure enough for the huge beam to be pulled from the mold, then re-condition & re-set the mold to pour beam #2.... That can take a few days per pour. Each beam has to additionally cure at the plant for 28 days before it can be transported to the bridge site. Multiply that all out for 60 beams. (when they originally built the highway the plants had designs a year befor the beams were needed) All that time only gets the beams to the site, there still needs to be: a roadway poured on top, railings, safety barriers,.....
There's very few plants that can make those beams and they're all presently in the midst of contracts for building beams and panels on other projects with timelines. So even if there were blueprints and spec available soon it could be months before they can even start the first beam.
Many of those bridges are constructed using steel girders.
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Seems like it would be very challenging to build permanent replacement roadway with temporary structures nearby.
The builders of the actual replacement structures ,are going to need to create, or re-open, temporary gravel extraction pits and works yards as well as at least one each of concrete and asphault plants.
The pricetage for remediating that rainstorm damage is going to make the total COVID related pricetag look small :'( :'(
the New Normal Climate is bad enough now at 1.1 degrees above pre-industrial, and some world leaders are willing to not stop at +1.5 (which IMHO will be worse than today) but they're willing to target +2 or +2-1/2 degrees. :( :( :(
You're optimistic. Likely we're looking at 2.5 to 3 degrees min by end of century. The cost (never mind the damage ) will be unthinkable.
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Nice graph there, looks like 2006 was worst, Good to hear that Salmon does bounce back quickly! Certainly got to know the critical importance of these side channels
the 2 high water discharge events on the graph were in 2003 and 2006 or 2007. Looks like 2003 was the big largest followed by another major flood within 3 or 4 years.
Here is a news story from 2009.
https://www.pressreader.com/canada/vancouver-sun/20091116/281505042301686
another from 2006
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/rage-ruin-remain-as-river-retreats/article1109486/
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Route out of southern B.C. closed again due to washout
A main route out of southern British Columbia is closed again due to a washout, officials say.
Highway 3 is closed in both directions between Hope and Princeton. An assessment is in progress, but there is currently no estimated time of reopening.
The route also known as Crowsnest Highway had only just reopened.
https://bc.ctvnews.ca/route-out-of-southern-b-c-closed-again-due-to-washout-no-estimated-time-of-reopening-1.5676592
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the 2 high water discharge events on the graph were in 2003 and 2006 or 2007. Looks like 2003 was the big largest followed by another major flood within 3 or 4 years.
This made me curious about previous high water events as I sorta recall some big occurrences, but no particular details. Downloaded some historical annual daily max data from wateroffice.ec.gc.ca to see. The data goes back somewhat further, but I limited it to ~1950
(https://imgur.com/mrUcL2u.jpg)
Based on last week's peak flow of ~488 m3/s it looked like it was exceeded three times in the last 70ish years though it did get close at least a handful of other times. 2003 was indeed the largest at over 600 m3/s, an additional 25% more flow than this weeks event.
An acquaintance recently mentioned he remembers a pretty significant flood in Chilliwack from when he lived there (much) younger, and guessed it could have been in the 70's. '75 and '80 had big events which could very well be what he experienced...
edit: updated to show which annual max flows occurred in the spring/summer (Apr-Sep) vs fall/winter (Oct-Mar). Presumably from freshet vs rainfall.
(https://imgur.com/xfGgUhl.jpg)
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Thanks for the graph...
95% of the people here probably only worry about whether if their fishing holes got washed out, unfortunately.
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Thanks for the graph...
95% of the people here probably only worry about whether if their fishing holes got washed out, unfortunately.
What an ignorant comment.
Who are you to state what people on any site are thinking. People you dont even know or have had any interaction with.
Did you show up at the Barrow Town pump station in the middle of the night to help sand bag.
Have you done anything constructive to help any one affected by the flooding.
Or just sitting in your warm house making stupid comments
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5% out of 7,500 is still a lot of people. Glad you are one of them...or may be not.
Why are you so sensitive btw, waders still leaking, hooks too dull to stick?
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Thanks for the graph...
95% of the people here probably only worry about whether if their fishing holes got washed out, unfortunately.
Why so much hate towards people?
I think its the other way round, 98% people are good hearted and really care about climate/nature/wildlife more than their fishing holes.
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I worry about my favorite fishing spots too! Will they have disappeared? Is everything now filled in? Do I have to look for new places to fish? There are places I fished for 30+ years, beautiful glides and tail outs where winter time cutthroat sipped emergers from the surface. They are gone & replaced with deep fast water. So far I haven't found anything comparable. :'(
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I feel ya, Ralph. I was at my favourite cutthroat haunt on Saturday, the 13th. On the drive home is when the skies opened up. If I knew then what I know now, I may have stayed a bit longer. Honestly, I'm a little afraid to go back to see what I might see.
Although I didn't have 30 years there like your spots, I knew it like the back of my hand. Yes there's the challenge of learning it all over again, adapting and exploring, but sometimes you just want the comfort of a familiar old friend.
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I left cultus lake the Sunday afternoon before things went for a real s#!t, just before the main road into cultus washed out. In 30 plus years fishing the vedder I have never seen so much water running down that river as that day. I can’t imagine what the lower river looks like now. A lot of people’s favourite fishing spots will be gone. Mid to lower always changes some every year and I always enjoyed looking for new steelhead water every winter but I think not this year. My daughter and I will instead be looking to help out the community we call home for six months of every year. People have lost a lot out there but that doesn’t mean it’s selfish or bad to reflect on favourite fishing spots lost.
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ibilly, a couple of years I remember looking at what happened when Watt Creek flooded due to an atmospheric river event in Feb 2020. The channel that was cut and the alluvial fan that it deposited in the forest was amazing...at the time. But I bet that pales in comparison what happened last week. Can you describe what happened?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jjmFO5kn2c
The amount of woody debris is staggering
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Why so much hate towards people?
I think its the other way round, 98% people are good hearted and really care about climate/nature/wildlife more than their fishing holes.
No hatred intended. Just facts of life. Nothing wrong for being honest. My apologies to all if it came across that way.
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They said on the radio this morning that highway 8 may not be repairable. That the route is no longer viable.
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Clarki, as I said we left just before it got super ugly but it had been raining hard all night and it was blowing like crazy. We were watching the trees and thinking it’s time to go ! Decided to avoid the highway and take the backroads through all the farmland to get home to Richmond. Even at that time all the big ditches were not only full but were flowing like fast moving creeks. We are part timers at cultus, just keep our trailer there April to September but we have many friends who live there full time and some who have cabins there. I have gotten many pictures and videos from our friends who live there. Some frightening stuff. The video link you posted is the beach in front of the place we park our trailer. Can’t imagine what that will look like in the spring when and if we are allowed to return. Have a friend at lindell beach who lives between watt creek and frosst creek and his house survived while many of his neighbours places were not so lucky. I also saw the previous path of destruction at watt creek that you mentioned. Scary. I’m sure it looks much worse now. Sad.
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I watched footage of highway 8 taken from a helicopter and I can’t see how it could be repaired but you never know I guess.
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Since our lives are relatively, so short, we tend to think our common landscape features change little over time. Who would think for example, that the Nooksack River was once a tributary of the Fraser river, or that 10,000 or so years ago almost none of our favorite fishing spots in the Valley and LM existed. They would have been covered by hundreds of feet of seawater. The valley up to Hope was a saltwater sound. Both Harrison and Pitt lakes were not lakes but saltwater inlets of the Salish Sea.
There are 3 spots on the Fraser I used to fish for cutthroat in the winter and spring which basically disappeared, became unfishable, mostly due not to floods, but to flood remediation. By gravel mining and riprap structures that both changed the river course and left them all but inaccessible. These days the riprap is made using boulders that are the size of small cars. A couple of years ago on my return to one place I found a sloped field of riprap about 40 yards wide, up to six feet high with chasms as deep and if I slipped, wide enough to swallow my leg. It terminated in deep water where once there was a gravel beach.
I went back the next year and most of the gaps between the riprap were filled with silt and a muddy beach skirted the edge. In one season of flooding the river had all but covered that riprap.
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They said on the radio this morning that highway 8 may not be repairable. That the route is no longer viable.
https://globalnews.ca/news/8396216/b-c-floods-highway-8-closure-damage/
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Driven that road more times than I could possibly count. Never again by the sounds of it.
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Since our lives are relatively, so short, we tend to think our common landscape features change little over time. Who would think for example, that the Nooksack River was once a tributary of the Fraser river, or that 10,000 or so years ago almost none of our favorite fishing spots in the Valley and LM existed. They would have been covered by hundreds of feet of seawater. The valley up to Hope was a saltwater sound. Both Harrison and Pitt lakes were not lakes but saltwater inlets of the Salish Sea.
Yes, not only the Nooksack, but also the Upper Skagit used to flow into the Fraser. I'm fascinated by the places where these rivers intersect in high water. The Nooksack and Johnson Creek, which flows into the Sumas River, are only separated by low farm land, so it isn't hard for them to combine. Same for the South Fork of the Nooksack and the Samish River, which flow in opposite directions in the same valley. I wonder what hopping points there are like this with BC rivers. It also reminds me of the special places in Yellowstone National Park where Snake River tributaries can flow either way over the continental divide, meaning you have cutthroat that are actually east of the Rocky Mountains. I have also thought that if the Chilliwack native spring chinook really are extirpated, the North Fork Nooksack stock may be genetically similar enough to re-establish that run, since these rivers have meandered and connected to a certain degree over recent geologic time.
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This will eventually be okay if the gravel stays in place but i'm sure were going to see a big push to mine it in the name of flood protection.
the other thing will be the 2022 freshet, there is a huge amount of mud and trees sitting at the sides of banks right now waiting for another high water event.
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Yes, not only the Nooksack, but also the Upper Skagit used to flow into the Fraser. I'm fascinated by the places where these rivers intersect in high water. The Nooksack and Johnson Creek, which flows into the Sumas River, are only separated by low farm land, so it isn't hard for them to combine. Same for the South Fork of the Nooksack and the Samish River, which flow in opposite directions in the same valley. I wonder what hopping points there are like this with BC rivers. It also reminds me of the special places in Yellowstone National Park where Snake River tributaries can flow either way over the continental divide, meaning you have cutthroat that are actually east of the Rocky Mountains. I have also thought that if the Chilliwack native spring chinook really are extirpated, the North Fork Nooksack stock may be genetically similar enough to re-establish that run, since these rivers have meandered and connected to a certain degree over recent geologic time.
may explain the sudden appearance of bass in the Fraser Valley in the 80s and 90s. Some have since certainly been moved by the bucket brigade but some US watersheds aren't as separated from Canadian waters as we'd like to believe.
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may explain the sudden appearance of bass in the Fraser Valley in the 80s and 90s. Some have since certainly been moved by the bucket brigade but some US watersheds aren't as separated from Canadian waters as we'd like to believe.
so does that make them a native species?
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so does that make them a native species?
They aren't native to Washington waters, so no.
I know there are LMB in the Nooksack watershed downstream of Lynden, in Wiser Lake, but I don't know of any upstream. However, as I have speculated before, I think Boundary (Judson) lake likely overflows into the Sumas system during floods, and that is where I caught my first LMB.
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I have also thought that if the Chilliwack native spring chinook really are extirpated, the North Fork Nooksack stock may be genetically similar enough to re-establish that run, since these rivers have meandered and connected to a certain degree over recent geologic time.
That's a point made by the speaker in this video, that Rod posted in another thread,
of the genetic similarity between Chilliwack and Nooksak chinook.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M3MmDyKk0I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M3MmDyKk0I) Beginning at 5:50
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That's a point made by the speaker in this video, that Rod posted in another thread,
of the genetic similarity between Chilliwack and Nooksak chinook.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M3MmDyKk0I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M3MmDyKk0I) Beginning at 5:50
I don't know how I missed it earlier, this is amazing! Thanks for the link.
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genetically interior Fraser coho and steelhead are more closely related to equivalent stocks in the Columbia than those in the lower Fraser. The upper part of the Thompson system first flowed east into the Columbia as at the end of the Pleistocene, the Columbia basin was free of glaciers before the current Fraser basin and South Coast mountains were so it's assumed the Columbia was the source of the first salmonid colonizers of BC's interior.
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Recently took a look at the shocking video of the devastation along Highway 8 between Merrit and Spences Bridge. So many chunks of highway are washed out it will takes years to replace if ever. Hard to believe that a stretch of highway that has been around for nearly a century was wiped out in a couple of days. Feel bad for the FN , ranchers and others who lived along Highway 8
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Recently took a look at the shocking video of the devastation along Highway 8 between Merrit and Spences Bridge. So many chunks of highway are washed out it will takes years to replace if ever. Hard to believe that a stretch of highway that has been around for nearly a century was wiped out in a couple of days. Feel bad for the FN , ranchers and others who lived along Highway 8
There’s no cheap solution it’s now 100s of millions of u want to fix that highway
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I don't know how I missed it earlier, this is amazing! Thanks for the link.
Playing with Google Earth tonight... I never realized how closely linked the Chilliwack and Nooksak Rivers are.
The Chilliwack's headwaters are on the north flank of Ruth Mountain, and the Ruth Glacier.
A tributary of the Nooksak, Ruth Creek, also flows off the same glacier. The only thing separating the Nooksak and Chilliwack watersheds is narrow ridge that runs north of Ruth Mountain.
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Does anyone have a link to recent satellite imagery of affected areas?
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Since our lives are relatively, so short, we tend to think our common landscape features change little over time. Who would think for example, that the Nooksack River was once a tributary of the Fraser river, or that 10,000 or so years ago almost none of our favorite fishing spots in the Valley and LM existed. They would have been covered by hundreds of feet of seawater. The valley up to Hope was a saltwater sound. Both Harrison and Pitt lakes were not lakes but saltwater inlets of the Salish Sea.
The whole area from the north shore south to Bellingham and east to Agassiz or Hope used to be the Fraser river delta. 12,000 years ago it was covered in Ice. As the >1km thick glaciers retreated, and the Fraser had a much higher water flow, the glaciers ground down the coast mountains and the Fraser deposited all that sand and gravel at it's mouth, just like what it does at sandheads today. Also as the weight of the glaciers was reduced, the whole area slowly rose out of the sea (post-glacial rebound).
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There’s no cheap solution it’s now 100s of millions of u want to fix that highway
Atthis point it might not be worth fixing - especially as these type of events are becoming more and more common. :/
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there were basically 2 effects on sea level at the end of the Pleistocene; 1) changes in the water cycle water was stored on land as glacial ice which caused sea levels to drop. This was then released when the glaciers melted causing the sea levels to rise. 2) the weight of glacial ice pushed the continental plates beneath and surrounding the ice sheets down into the earths outer crust. When the ice melted it sprang back up higher than previously. From what I recall when I studied archaeology & geography at SFU the immediate change in sea level locally was a drop of about 600 feet due to ice melting and filling the ocean. Then the depressed plates sprang back up higher than currently then settled back to the levels we more or less have today.
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Atthis point it might not be worth fixing - especially as these type of events are becoming more and more common. :/
Thought there were a couple of First Nation community’s that needs it
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Round 2 for the Vedder, so sad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOWlyzVkn4U
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The whole area from the north shore south to Bellingham and east to Agassiz or Hope used to be the Fraser river delta. 12,000 years ago it was covered in Ice. As the >1km thick glaciers retreated, and the Fraser had a much higher water flow, the glaciers ground down the coast mountains and the Fraser deposited all that sand and gravel at it's mouth, just like what it does at sandheads today. Also as the weight of the glaciers was reduced, the whole area slowly rose out of the sea (post-glacial rebound).
At different times during the glacial melt, the Fraser River flowed to ocean via what we know as Port Moody, and at another stage through Cloverdale to Mud Bay leaving behind the Serpentine & Nicomekl.
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apparently a few homes on osborne road are on evacuation notice. super sad.
looks like the temperature is suppose to drop tomorrow. was 16 degrees this morning driving through delta.
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13 degrees out here in Chiliwack today. Crazy warm. I went out to Wilson rd dyke the other day. There is a security guard there 24/7 keeping people away. So I had to settle for a Kevs dog. Yum yum.
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apparently a few homes on osborne road are on evacuation notice. super sad.
looks like the temperature is suppose to drop tomorrow. was 16 degrees this morning driving through delta.
Look at the bright side....if that guy's corner home at the end of the road right hand side washes away.... you guys will be able to fish the rip rap again....without threat of bodily harm.
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https://tc.canada.ca/en/ministerial-orders-interim-orders-directives-directions-response-letters/interim-order-no-2-respecting-certain-flooded-areas-british-columbia-2021
Recreational boating Prohibitions for flood effected areas have been updated, now include Chilliwack Lake and River.
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(https://scontent.fyvr4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/259436292_270619638428492_8973800860234418542_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=NjOmDbwN4sMAX_3z07k&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr4-1.fna&oh=a0c4321c3ce3f12c4ad545093ea2b06b&oe=61ACC9A5)
An Evacuation Order has been issued for properties along Chilliwack Lake Road in FVRD Area E due to immediate danger to life and property caused by high flows and bank erosion in the Chilliwack River.
When I drove by 1.5 weeks ago, it looked like a good chunk of the field below Thompson Park was already washed away. It makes it sound like all of the field is being washed away right now.
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Yup. I saw that. Most of Ways field has been washed away. The river now runs along the road instead of on the other side. The river must have smashed trough the rip rap protecting the farmers field. Crazy
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Yup. I saw that. Most of Ways field has been washed away. The river now runs along the road instead of on the other side. The river must have smashed trough the rip rap protecting the farmers field. Crazy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKZ8cPvhv5s
Drone footage of the Upper Chwk River.
At 9:45 its flying downstream toward Wilson Rd where you can see damage to the dyke and homes.
Beginning at 12:50, it's flying upstream toward what used to be Way's Field. The main channel now runs through the field, and a large wooded section is...gone.
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Looking at the footage it appears substantial parts of the river bed has been paved as in it's mostly riffle structure with not a lot of pool, run and rapid structure. Anyone who has been there have any comment? Over time more normal flows tend to return a more normal structure but it looks like some of those classic 'holes' that anglers like to line up along have filled in.
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Reminds me of how the upper Squamish river has moved around over the last 30 years going from side to side of the valley and back again with lotsa braided channels away from the main flow . River will go where it wants to go during high water events.
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Braids & side channels are good! Lots of habitat for young fish.
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I agree with Ralph, the river is very straight, shallow, and dirty. Tailouts seem wider and flatter. The logs jams are massive with great length and heights. Many trails, access points are destroyed. I have been trying to fish the lower river below the crossing bridge. No catches so far, no blood on the beach either.
I think Peach road and Lickman might be disappointing to most, but I havn't tried there yet. There is a jam ruining the trail at the stump hole below Lickman, needs a good wade to get around it??? At Hopedale; the access trail has a massive jam there now, not sure if accessible or worth it. Crossing bridge; lots of rip rap missing and the rock stairs also gone.
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WOW! Moving water is powerful.
But what amazes me even more is that, before the rain fell, all that water was supported up in the air for many thousands of miles.
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longer leaders boys lol
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Over time more normal flows tend to return a more normal structure
Hows that working out on the Chehalis
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Big long solid rock canyon = hydro-logically a young river structure with high velocity at the canyon terminus + it's historically has much wider flow swings on a regular basis than the Chilliwack.
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https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/u-s-officials-consider-plan-that-would-send-nooksack-river-overflow-into-canada
This could get interesting..
Then what is Abbotsford’s response? Build a dyke along 0 Ave to deflect the floodwaters back into the US?
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Not a neighbourly thing to be doing.
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just shows that in the U.S. they are moving ahead with doing something about it to mitigate future events.
As the article states studies have been done here but nothing has come of it yet year after year. My frustration sits with the fact that the dyke in abbotsford failed and followed by a 100 meter breach. If no breach had occured how much less of a disaster would it have been? Whos responsible for the breach in the dyke?
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This is tricky.
From what I understand, the breach took place at the first, lowest spot on the dyke the flooding waters came to where the water could initially trickle over. As that trickle increased, the volume and velocity of that water increased, increasing erosion at that spot rapidly, until all the water previously held back ripped through that one opening and expanded it to become that 100 meter gash.
So yes, people will look to learn and will build a higher dyke. But as time goes on and the miles of dyke age and wear, and people forget the past, there will always be one spot a bit lower, and thus weaker and succeptable to erosion. It could be a spot where the soil depresses and sinks over time. It could be some unknowing or unsuspecting man made damage. It could be a grassfire at some time down the line. It could be cattle or other wildlife somehow impacting the dyke, It could be a freak thunderstorm where pounding rain one time causes some minor, barely noticed erosion, it could be consistent foot traffic in one area of the dyke, it could be an earthquake causes some minor structural issues. We are talking possibly 50 to 100 years of planning and ongoing consistent monitoring. We as a species have such a short memory that after 40 years of monitoring and nothing happening to the dyke, the next generation will forget the past, question the expenses, and thus fail to see the logic of continuing on-going expensive efforts. You can see that this is what happened with the last flood committee that was formed after the 1990 flood.
"After the last significant Nooksack flood in 1990, a cross-border group was created to come up with a mitigation plan. It went dormant in 2011 and was only recently resurrected."
The issue then becomes under the new US plan, there will be increased water heading this way. Who can make accurate predictions on how all these floodwaters coalescing at a intense flood event will act and how high the water will get. What I do know is that in the future such events, if the US follows through with their plan, that dyke will need to hold back a larger volume of water, and if it does fail and break through an even taller dyke, imagine how much water will instantly rush through and how big that gash will be next time.
Dano