Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: Steelhawk on May 22, 2009, 04:41:53 PM
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This local river used to have tons of Coho from the Expo year of 86. Coho fishery had been boosted to impress tourists. Back then, you could pick up your 4 coho after work in a good tide. I had hit trains of coho blowing by Nude Rock area for 2 hours non-stop. C&R was the norm. What has happened to this favourite river of the Vancouverites? There used to be long lines of fishermen in the river during the runs, and there were many, many boats fishing the river mouth and along the West Vancouver shoreline. It reflected a spectacle of the Canadian way of life for visiting tourists.
This is THE RIVER tourists enchanted with the stories of Canadaian salmon actually get to see them jumping up the fish ladders, and witnessing Canadian fishermen catching salmon in the river. Nothing better reflects the glorious salmon fishery of the Province than tourists snapping pictures of Canadian fishermen carrying out those silver beauties or fighting them in the river, so people of the world will want to come over to visit. Why can't tourism BC & fishery see the benefits of enhancing a 'tourist' river in the city?
Why would fishery let such an important show-case river go down the drain? If they are using resources in stocking trouts non-stop all over the place, why can't they enhance this favourite local river closest to the major population center of BC? The Americans stock millions & millions of smolts in their rivers. If we can only afford to do one river, can't fishery just enhance this special river to give fishermen reason to believe in the so called 'fishing in the city' initiative, and to let tourists see we do have a vibrant salmon fishery.
We already heard from foreign friends mentioning about the closure of our once plentiful sockeyes. The media did a good job to broadcast the bad news. When they come over for vacation, the empty or sparsely occupied fish ladders of the Cap will only confirm to them that the famed Canadian salmon fishery is indeed history or near dead. Too bad the 2010 Winter Olympics is in winter, otherwise government should really use this opportunity to enhance the Cap coho again. The winter steelhead fishery in the Cap is so dismal. I guess they better keep quiet from the Olympics tourists. ;D
So what can be done about this? Any ideas? How can we press the government to do something?
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I have heard this question asked before. Not just in regards to the capilano but other hatchery enhanced rivers such as the vedder. If stocks are low, why not bump up the hatchery numbers to supplement the runs. The answer i heard, from dfo, was that it contradicts the wild salmon policy in bc . I don't understand why they cannot up the hatchery numbers and close retention to all wild fish, but from what i understood it all comes down to protecting the wild fish first and things in the policy hold them back from doing that.
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It is mainly a Federal Government funding issues but there is some in FOC that think hatcheries are not the answer but maybe they say that so the government does not have to restore the funding SEP had a few years ago.
About all one can do is to lobby your elected officials but unfortunately in so many cases I have found it seems to fall on deaf ears. Just because I say this one should not give up as many including myself continue to work on numerous fishing and related environmental issues but it gets frustrating at times.
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Chris nailed it pretty good.......but can I suggest to join a group, drift fishers,local fish and game clubs, Steelhead society,WSC , ect ....there are many groups that are and have been working on these problems for many years. make your voice heard.
I constantly hear "yeah I'll join but what do I get?"............FISH , hopefully! the groups I belong to put the moneys raised into the "brick and mortar projects" in other words the money goes back to the fish....period. but you wont see the stuff posted all over the net, you must get involved.
sadly I think the fisheries will never be the way they were, for me it started in the early 80's, I did get to fish the expo years. ;D
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seriously not cool , one lonely coho in the fish ladders today . no tourist buses or elementary school buses in the parking lot , nobody to witness the one brave blueback . 13 years ago when i was in grade two my class took a feild trip to the cap in may i still remeber those ladders were stacked maybe a thousand or more , too bad i didnt fish then.
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Protecting wild fish is a good policy. It should apply to rivers where there are wild stocks in existence. The Cap has been damed for eons of years. Where is the wild stock to protect? It is a hatchery river bar none. Without the hatchery, there would be no fish much to fish with. As such, it should be enhanced in a major way, so visitors can have a personal experience to witness a vibrant salmon fishery right close to the city, and local fishermen will have a local salmon river to practice what they call 'fishing in the city'. :)
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Chris nailed it pretty good.......but can I suggest to join a group, drift fishers,local fish and game clubs, Steelhead society,WSC , ect ....there are many groups that are and have been working on these problems for many years. make your voice heard.
The problem with that is there are so many groups and the fact governments rarely listen unless you are a big money interest like fish farming or run of the river.
The worst thing that ever happened to the Capilano was that dam but we humans need water so the river will never be what it was at one time.
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Chris nailed it pretty good.......but can I suggest to join a group, drift fishers,local fish and game clubs, Steelhead society,WSC , ect ....there are many groups that are and have been working on these problems for many years. make your voice heard.
The problem with that is there are so many groups and the fact governments rarely listen unless you are a big money interest like fish farming or run of the river.
The worst thing that ever happened to the Capilano was that dam but we humans need water so the river will never be what it was at one time.
Yes you are correct there is so many groups with some working on their own agenda. As I have said a few times if we could every get all the groups concerned about our fish and the environment together we would be a force to reckon with. One things however that I have noticed over the years is some groups that depend on government funding will not go against government policy as they know funding could be denied. I and a couple of others in our area at one time had a wee bit of influence with our present Provincial government but as soon as we became part of challenging them re gravel removal on the Fraser River we were quickly shuffled off to the side lines.
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One of the problems over the last 10 years or so been the low return rates for coho. In the Mid eighties coho returns back to the Chilliwack River were 10+ %. Returns of late have been .5 to 1 %.
Until such time as ocean conditions improve returns will certainly be on the low side.
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One of the problems over the last 10 years or so been the low return rates for coho. In the Mid eighties coho returns back to the Chilliwack River were 10+ %. Returns of late have been .5 to 1 %.
Until such time as ocean conditions improve returns will certainly be on the low side.
Maybe the fish farm's lice got some of them too. ::)
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I took a trip down to the mouth of the river last night .... did not see any fish other than a couple smolts swim past on their way to the ocean but what I did see was 4 seals bobbing around just in the space between the two low bridges.
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Sadly, this is just another example of the decline of our fisheries.There is no money and no incentive for the government to take action.We need to take action,demostrations,protests,raise money, get our message out, be heard!To heck with the tourists,we want to enjoy the great fishing we once had throughout the eighties.Is that all we have left our memories of what once was!People lets band together and make this happen!
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Let me get this right: the feds want to protect the wild stock while at the same time they allow fish farms with their sea lice problems. ???
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So, why should DFO enhance the Capilano? The problem lies with the dam, and the reservoir behind it that supplies a good deal of the lower mainland with drinking water. If anyone should be enhancing it, shouldn't it be the GVRD?
The days before the dam, was there an early run of coho, and if there was, how large was it?
Then if a group does enhance it like crazy - who's to say how many will get past the shopping cart weir downstream?
At the moment there is a trial going on to repopulate the upper river above the dam, for now the smolts will be trucked down around it, and the adults are too trucked over. I believe the GVRD is responsible for this.
Yes, most Urban streams need enhancing, but to keep on saying DFO is not doing enough is a little tiring.
For your information this was released the other day
CANADA’S ECONOMIC ACTION PLAN
Creating Jobs and Benefitting Science - Government of Canada invests in upgrading federal salmon hatcheries in British Columbia
May 22, 2009
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North Vancouver, B.C. – The Honourable Randy Kamp, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, today announced $8 million in funding, over the next two years, to modernize 33 facilities and hatcheries in the Salmonid Enhancement Program in British Columbia.
The funding is part of a $250 million commitment in Canada’s Economic Action Plan designed to accelerate investment, over the next two years, to modernize federal facilities across the country. The funding, announced in Budget 2009, is one of the many job-creating investments in the Economic Action Plan.
“This funding will enhance the efficient operations of these facilities,” said Mr. Kamp. “Important improvements to salmon hatcheries and spawning channels will be addressed throughout BC and the program will provide much needed economic stimulus as well. Our Government recognizes the importance of this program to the economy of this region and we are proud to support it."
The $8 million for the Salmonid Enhancement Program includes $5.4 million for 19 salmon hatcheries and spawning channels to refurbish their water supply and delivery systems, a critical component for hatchery operations. Twenty-six SEP facilities will receive a total of $2.6 million to repair and upgrade buildings.
The Salmonid Enhancement Program, part of Fisheries and Oceans Canada, operates 23 salmon hatcheries and spawning channels, 21 community hatcheries through contracts with First Nations and community groups and involves more than 10,000 volunteers in community and education programs.
To learn more about Canada’s Economic Action Plan, visit www.actionplan.gc.ca.
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It would be nice if they would dump in as many fish as possible into the Cap, its not like they would go to waste.
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The funding to upgrade hatchery facilities is a good move in the right direction. But unless the money is also spent in stocking more smolts for release, the money is just not going to return more fish for the rivers covered by the hatcheries.
The Cap had great coho fishery with the dam already in place in the Expo years. Nothing has changed, just much less stocking and return. Why? Just funding cut after cut. SEP was a good program when there was guilt about human degradation of salmon habitat. Now that the guilt is over, the urge to do more for the river is just not there. Sad.
FA said it right. DFO needs to have uniform standards. They should stem down on fish farming to reduce sea lice problem if they truly want to save the wild stocks. They should not allow gravel extraction for financial gain of some parties at the expense of those wild salmon habitat. Just too many double standards.
Tourists? Who care about them? But the government is more likely to spend money to impress them than us. Don't you think so? ;D
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I am mixed on this issue... There are obvious benefits with more fish, but consider the downside...
If the numbers of hatchery fish coming back was increased, then the cap could be overrun by people trying to catch them...
Look at what cates park has become during the pink run. It's a pretty scary situation with the population we have in Greater Vancouver.
The less people fishing means fewer capilano summer runs will be bonked by accident, as we see numerous reports of close calls among anglers who can tell the difference between a coho and steel, never mind someone who can't, or just does not care.
I honestly don't think the river could handle the amount of attention it would get if it was the hot spot once again...
Not to mention the downgrade in the quality of fishery brought on by questionable ethics, garbage, etc etc.
Cheers,
Nicole
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We can say that about any river - Vedder, Chehalis, Squamish, Stamps. You cannot run away from this problem with any popular urban rivers. The difference is, most of these other rivers have better runs than the Cap right now. Leave the wild & remote rivers wild and sparsely fished to protect their wild stocks but enhance local urbran rivers to get fishermen occupied. That is a more realistic and reasonable approach. Forget about land owners. They already have their nice houses to enjoy. Leave the river to the fishermen. ;D
So, still back to the original question - why can't DFO enhance a formerly productive fishery in the Cap like they used to do before, forcing most Vancourites to drive far (bad for the environment and fishermen's wallet), spend all day (bad for family relationship, isn't it? ;D), or simply quit fishing and stop buying licenses. If DFO is interest to increase license sales, and if the government wants to see more participation in the dirve for 'fishing in the city', then enchancing the Cap, the local river of Vancouver, back to its old glorious day is a good move in the right direction. And good for the tourists & tourism too. ;D
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As I said before why should DFO do the stocking on this river? Do you know the costs associated with rearing coho in a hatchery for a year?Especially since ocean survival right now is so poor from California to Northern BC (and over half have no fish farms) Just because they did in the past doesn't mean they need to continue with it. As far as I'm concerned if anyone should take on the costs of the stocking on the Cap it should be either the GVRD or set up a community program like there is on the Seymour, Chapman Cr, Kanaka Cr, etc.
Or better yet maybe set up some sort of sea ranching program with the Squamish First Nations as they harvest a good number of fish in the Lower River.
What DFO is doing in the watershed now in my opinion is all that needs to be done.
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I think you are missing the point of the debate. The point is, if the other rivers have pretty good runs of salmon due to hatchery stockings (Stamps, Vedder, even Chehalis), why shouldn't a local Vancouver river which used to have good stocking be stocked to its historic level? Costs? The other rivers stock much more and cost lots more. But they take tons of gas & time if you fish them regularly. Why not enhance this local river instead of those far out of Vancouver, especially this one is where tourists come to see the salmon, and if the 'fishing in the city' program needs a good stream (besides the lakes) to motivate people to fish close to the city, the Cap is the right one to do.
I always wonder why some in the fishing community will not want a good local fishery? Hate to see crowd? Like to get skunked? Protect the wild stocks? Well, the Cap is nothing but a hatchery river now and it should be stocked to produce a good coho fishery like its old days. Even in its hay days, it never had the crowd like the Vedder now. It has some fishermen at the top, and some at the bottom. But it has quite a long middle section for hiking fishermen to explore. Crowd should not be an issue. Besides, if the Cap is productive, it will take away the crowding in the Vedder & the Chehalis. People will still try the Valley rivers, but will be less frequent as now if they can enjoy fishing the Cap locally. My humble 2 cents.
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This link to the Cap hatchery shows the decline from the Expo years. Millions of chinook and coho were released then. They should increase stocking now, given ocean survival is also less favourable.
http://www-heb.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/facilities/capilano/fp_hist_smolt_releases_e.htm
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If you notice I am not saying don't stock it, but I don't think it's DFO's responsibility in this instance. They have set their quota, as they only have so much in their budget. I think it should be up to the GVRD to stock the Capilano or other user groups.
The rivers you mentioned before, I believe their total production other than the Chilliwack went not just too one stream. So, yes their production was more but it went to more areas.
I started steelheading and fishing for coho on the Cap about 25 or 26 years ago. Took the bus from South Granville as the Cap, Seymour, and the Lynn were the easiest to reach by bus. I had a great time fishing on all those streams. I also remember one big issue - the first nations shopping cart weir and the amount of fish that they took. If a group starts to increase stocking and raising coho in the hatchery for a year and spending all the $$ on raising them, then just to have a good number of what returned caught in a terminal fishery that few can take part in....I'm not sure if many would be happy with that either. Throwing more Chinook into the system is that the answer - they are not kept in a hatchery setting as long. Supposedly that is what they are doing as I have heard that we should see a good number of in the area. But then the Cap historically did not have a run of Chinook. What they use are Qualicum and Chilliwack Fall (transplanted Harrison R Whites), I'm not sure but they may have even crossed them so the Cap now has it's own run of Qualicum/Chilliwack Fall crosses.
What about the Steelhead? What should be done there? Cutthroat? Should they be stocked as well?
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Cheer up fellows. The Pacific seems headed into a cold phase that may last 20 or 30 years with improved ocean survival. This year is the first year for returns from the colder ocean and they may be good. The Americans have predictred a 100% increase in Coho returns to the Columbia for this year. See also a string started by NOG reporting lotsa fish offshore already.
http://jisao.washington.edu/pdo/
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with the cap its another story, release of most the smolts is done above the dam because of the superior habitat that exists up there, wat they have taken into consideration but yet still dont find a solution for is the mortality rate of the smolts as they are blown through the dam, or chopped up in the turbines. Its waste of fish as many perish trying to make it back to the ocean, now if they released the smolts into the river just above the hatchery then there would be a decent survival rate, but the fish wouldn't mature as fast. The pro's and cons to a destroyed river. I was in the library the other day reading up on the cap and its history, its wild summers that would rise to dry flies, the long runs well above where the dam is now, and the BIG winter steelhead/coho it would get. There were a few photos of the past, all i can say . . . awe inspiring. the cap used to be and absolutely fantastic river, and a fairly long one aswell.
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Like you YG, I too am fascinated with the history of our local rivers.Good for you to spend the time in a library to research the Cap,not too many young fellas would spend time in a library,shows your passion for the sport.I don't spend alot of time on the Cap as i reside on the Chilliwack River but the times i have fished the Cap in yrs gone buy for the Bluebacks, it was really enjoyable and i had a good time! I have heard as well the Ocean temps this yr are colder and the returning Salmon stocks on the west coast of the island have greatly improved this yr so far.Time will tell if we get some good returns this summer.
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Here are some photos from the past, i've got a few more stashed away that i'll try and put up. These are a little blurry, i'm gonna attempt to fix the resolution. Those top 2 were from before the dam was put in place. If i can recall on what the book i was reading said, the river was between 12-15km long, with many wild summer runs that hit dry flies, wild steelhead like the 21lber in the photo, and large coho.
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee209/droussanidis/cap4.jpg)
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee209/droussanidis/cap3.jpg)
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee209/droussanidis/cap2.jpg)
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee209/droussanidis/cap5.jpg)
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One of my earliest memories of fishers is leaving Vancouver harbour by boat early on a misty summer morning and seeing fishermen lined up along the Capilano foreshore at low tide, probably fishing Coho. I don't know the date but it was probalby 1952 or 1953 before the Cleveland dam was completed.
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I wish I could have fished back in those days. Just imagine going back even further to the time before the Vancouver area was settled. I wonder if any of those first explorers packed a rod with them on their journey. :)