Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rodney on April 23, 2019, 01:22:00 PM
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The Fraser River Sportfishing Alliance (FRSA) was instrumental in arranging and participating in the March 26th meeting with First Nations and the commercial fishing sector. This meeting was a direct result of several informal meeting with the Lower Fraser Fisheries Association (LFFA) toward developing an effective communication venue which could facilitate respectful discussion regarding the many issues impacting Fraser River fisheries. These discussions would involve all species, perhaps through a Round Table concept facilitated by the sectors with government participation by invite. The primary attendees would be harvester/fishers with other NGO's such as environmental groups invited as required.
This process recognizes the successes of initiatives such as the Fraser River Peacemakers and hope to build on the cooperative spirit that Peacemakers established. All parties agree that the Fraser River fishery is facing very significant challenges including extreme conservation concerns for Fraser River chinook and Fraser interior steelhead. Significant closures and fishing restrictions on the Fraser will be the norm this summer resulting in tremendous financial loss as well as loss of quality family fishing time.
All parties are supportive of finding solutions to benefit all fishers on the Fraser. The well attended March 26th meeting was an important first step in getting to know each other and hopefully develop trust between participants. Several respected First Nations organizations as well as regional and provincial sport fishing groups participated along with the commercial sector from the Fraser. Comments from these participants indicated that progress was made and there appeared to be consensus that these talks should continue.
The sport fishing sector is responsible for facilitating the next meeting and the FRSA will play an important role in further talks. It is agreed by all participants that it will take the efforts of all user groups and the commitment of our fisheries managers to save our threatened salmon, steelhead and sturgeon stocks. It will take the commitment of all user groups to working together to ensure we have Fraser River fisheries for our respective future generations.
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All old people in the picture, Its young people out on the water that are fighting
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Comments from these participants indicated that progress was made and there appeared to be consensus that these talks should continue.
These 'talks' have been going on since the early 90s. I'll be dead before any of these 'talks' accomplish anything that gets me back out fishing for salmon.
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These 'talks' have been going on since the early 90s. I'll be dead before any of these 'talks' accomplish anything that gets me back out fishing for salmon.
Don't worry, the objective of these meetings is not to get you back out fishing lol....
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Don't worry, the objective of these meetings is not to get you back out fishing lol....
Yeah First Nations hold all the cards in that respect. Only cards the rec sector has to play is not reporting what they see on the water in social media.
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Don't worry, the objective of these meetings is not to get you back out fishing lol....
Then please explain to me why I should give a you-know-what about these meetings.
I thought this was a forum for the interests of sports fisherman???
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if it's not about getting us on the water, then, possibly, it's about getting us off the water 8)
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Then please explain to me why I should give a you-know-what about these meetings.
I thought this was a forum for the interests of sports fisherman???
This is a collective effort to save fish for the future generations.
It's pretty obvious you don't give a you-know-what about these meetings and First Nations, so why would I be interested to spend my volunteer time to gain fishing opportunities for you. ;D ::) ;D ::)
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interesting concept, Wish you guys the best of luck.
There really is only two option tho
Reduce Effort or produce more fish.
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Well obviously that's not the concept lol... My personal opinions are tongue and cheek toward those who still feel entitled to fish while stocks are in serious troubles.
There's a lot being discussed at these meetings. I recommend all to get updated by your organizations. If you don't belong to one, join one.
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I hope you mean FNs there Rodney
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I hope you mean FNs there Rodney
I meant anyone who feels entitled.
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Well obviously that's not the concept lol... My personal opinions are tongue and cheek toward those who still feel entitled to fish while stocks are in serious troubles.
And I hope you understand that one heck of a lot of those who used to be able to fish were not impacting Fraser River Chinook to any measurable degree, but still are being forced off the water by DFO caving into the ongoing FN Blackmail scheme Rod.
I understand the concerns in-river, and in the approach lanes. But it is ludicrous to force those who have negligible impact off the water simply by the demands of one sector. Blackmail in that the overlying threat was and is they would fish those stocks to extinction were everyone else (regardless of impact) taken off the water.
I understand your group is focused on the Fraser, and the impacts to it's stocks. Painting all with your tongue in cheek comment is grossly unfair my Friend.
Matt
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Matt, I wasn't suggesting you and those who have been financially affected feel entitled. This discussion is on the Fraser River and the issues surrounding it only.
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Matt, I wasn't suggesting you and those who have been financially affected feel entitled. This discussion is on the Fraser River and the issues surrounding it only.
Roger That. Apologies for the misinterpretation. Carry On & Best of Luck.
Matt
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No worries Matt. Many affected in the salt sector are my clients too so my business is also impacted by these decisions.
The previous posts are more about those who choose not to fight and expect others to do it for them so they can go fishing.
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Matt, I wasn't suggesting you and those who have been financially affected feel entitled. This discussion is on the Fraser River and the issues surrounding it only.
Well I think the problem now is those "Fraser river issues" are now effective this whole coast. Maybe it's a good think and will bring groups together that felt like they previously unaffected by the problems on the Fraser River.
When people in Port Hardy are loosing their jobs over concerns with the Fraser River stocks its a pretty broad problem.
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Oh there's no doubt that the saltwater sector will need to work with the Fraser groups to get back on the waters. We've said that for many years so it's a good thing that it will finally happen, just not in the best circumstances.
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Well obviously that's not the concept lol... My personal opinions are tongue and cheek toward those who still feel entitled to fish while stocks are in serious troubles.
There's a lot being discussed at these meetings. I recommend all to get updated by your organizations. If you don't belong to one, join one.
You're painting a picture of me that doesn't exist.
I'm not asking to be allowed to harvest fish that are nearing extinction. I'm saying that its completely unfair that one group continues to harvest fish to extinction while the rest of us are told we can't fish because the salmon are on the brink of extinction. Either we all fish or we all don't fish. I'm tired of the discrimination and racist decisions.
As for the meetings.....you said they aren't to get us on the water...and then you said you don't want to waste time helping me get on the water because I don't care about the meetings....which is it?
Fact is, I've been doing this longer than you. I went to the meetings back in the 90s.....and after about 5 years of giving my support....I learned that only an idiot would ever think the sporty is going come out of this smelling like a rose. You may as well go to Mongolia and try to save the last 20 Gobi Bears from poachers. That's what the odds are of your meetings accomplishing anything. The natives have been out this spring fishing for Chinook on the Fraser.....are you kidding me???? And you think you have a chance to change the minds of the morons who make these decisions.??? What are you smoking? A person would have to be blind to think these same people are listening to you....News flash...You're getting lip service at these meetings.....just like we got back in the 90s.
If these meetings are going to take place...I'd rather see a motion go to the supreme court to have conservation laws changed to something like if conservation comes into effect....that if one group can't fish, then NOBODY fishes(zero tolerance)....(contrary to you thinking I want to harvest endangered chinook....which I have never once said)
And before anyone gives me the 'they have the right to fish first BS', that law doesn't count for anything when the salmon are on the brink of extinction. There is NO law that says First Nations can harvest a stock of salmon into extinction.
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Oh there's no doubt that the saltwater sector will need to work with the Fraser groups to get back on the waters. We've said that for many years so it's a good thing that it will finally happen, just not in the best circumstances.
And that's another part of the problem....back in the 90s none of the groups would work together.
Back then if we would have worked together.....we would have been pouring beer cups of water onto a campfire......would have been a bit easier.
Now we're trying to spit on a forest fire.....done as dinner...
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I can only base my opinion of you on what I've read here, so you're only painting how you want yourself to be.
Five years? I've spent the last 15 years, must be an idiot then. ;D
You've already given up, so not sure why you keep complaining and talking down other people's effort. It's no longer your problem anymore.
It's always the other people's fault, right? :)
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I can only base my opinion of you on what I've read here, so you're only painting how you want yourself to be.
Five years? I've spent the last 15 years, must be an idiot then. ;D
You've already given up, so not sure why you keep complaining and talking down other people's effort. It's no longer your problem anymore.
It's always the other people's fault, right? :)
Its not that I want to give up....its just painful watching people put bandages on something that is dying from internal bleeding.
Every year you guys try to put a bandage on here and there...meanwhile you don't see the internal bleeding by the gallon.
Stop the half measures and do it right.....or don't do it all.
Or in the idea of comment sense....."stop the racism and discrimination from the powers that be, and then you might just have a chance". Until then....you will never win....in fact, you will never get anything.
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If you think you know how to do it right, do it yourself.
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If you think you know how to do it right, do it yourself.
Really??? That's a grade 3 reply.
I don't have the resources to do it, but any man who understands the basics of human behavior knows that you can't negotiate fairly where racism and discrimination take place. If you don't understand that simple concept, then I'm done with you on this subject.
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Grade 3 reply? lol... Actually even my 6 year old would understand this too. Stop complaining and telling others how things should be done. If I want something done right, I'll do it myself, otherwise I'd keep my mouth shut and stop wasting my own and other people's time. Everyone has the resource to make a difference, quit making lame excuses. You're not providing constructive feedbacks, you're just bitching about the other group like you've done for years on here.
I'm done with you on this subject.
Good, but somehow I doubt you are.
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Good, but somehow I doubt you are.
I said I'm done if you don't understand the simple concept I presented. Since you so opening admitted you don't understand that simple concept, then yes....I am done on this topic.
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I haven't even talked about the validity of your concept, not interested in someone's idea when the delivery is poorly executed with no respect given to other parties.
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when the delivery is poorly executed with no respect given to other parties.
Racism and discrimination are what they are. If a person or group is racist or discriminatory, then they do NOT get my respect.
The year is 2019, and if we can't start treating Canadians as Canadians...then everything is a lost hope. Why do you struggle with that concept?
Or since you say my delivery is so poor, why don't you educate me how I should have delivered.
At the end of the day....if a person or group is going to discriminate against me, then I'm going to be on the defensive. I'm not a doormat....are you?
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I thought you're done? lol
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Or since you say my delivery is so poor, why don't you educate me how I should have delivered.
Since you asked...
For starters, perhaps by not saying this "What are you smoking?" or this "That's a grade 3 reply" or this "If you don't understand that simple concept, then I'm done with you on this subject." or this "Why do you struggle with that concept?" or this from a couple of days ago "...needs to go back to grade school"
When people have a different perspective and opinion than yours, they aren't stoned, they aren't poorly educated, that don't mis-understand, they just see the world differently.
Instead, you could discuss ideas, and agree to see the world differently, and refrain from making comments similar to those above.
And I only jump in here because you asked to be educated.
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Since you asked...
For starters, perhaps by not saying this "What are you smoking?" or this "That's a grade 3 reply" or this "If you don't understand that simple concept, then I'm done with you on this subject." or this "Why do you struggle with that concept?" or this from a couple of days ago "...needs to go back to grade school"
When people have a different perspective and opinion than yours, they aren't stoned, they aren't poorly educated, that don't mis-understand, they just see the world differently.
Instead, you could discuss ideas, and agree to see the world differently, and refrain from making comments similar to those above.
And I only jump in here because you asked to be educated.
Look, I'm not one to deny my faults. I get wound up easy when people can't see common sense and logic.
I presented Rodney with some very real logical discussion, and he sidestepped all of it.
I let it get the better of me and I reacted in ways in which I should know better. For that I apologize.
As for Rod saying I'm negative...it's not negativity. It's pure frustration. I've taken my kids fishing, but they've never had the opportunities and open seasons that I had....and they ask me all the time to take them fishing ...and all I can say to them...."sorry the Fraser is closed"....as they show me my fishing albums with hundreds of pictures of me catching salmon and steelhead....asking why it isn't open anymore. Meanwhile a certain group is out there fishing the salmon to extinction.
With that said.....I already know Rod doesn't have a reply to my suggestions because he knows deep down that these meetings are political....meaning radical change like standing up to the First Nations and removing racism and discrimination from the current situation is NOT going to happen. So he just sidesteps me to make himself feel good. Like I said Rod knows these meetings are pointless. They've been going on for 30 years.....nothing has happened in those 30 years for the good, and nothing will happen in the next 30 years until you rid the situation of racism and discrimination. Its just simple logic and common sense.
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Now you're telling people what I'm thinking? I guess you're not done yet lol... ;D
I have plenty of answers, but you don't get a reply because I have no time for those who lack respect and talk down on others. Clarki is too nice, but I prefer to save my energy on lecturing my kids instead of someone who's older and should know better.
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I have plenty of answers,
No....you don't.
I know this, because I've seen others ask you the same questions...and perhaps as you put it...they ask you 'in a nicer way'...but with them too....you don't give them any real answers either.
So you can stop with the BS right now about you having the answers.
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lol... let me rephrase that so you can understand that better. I don't have ALL the answers to solve the fishery issues, but I choose to seek solutions instead of stomping my feet and pouting like a little kid. I could have answered your questions, but I chose not to.
Done yet?
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but I choose to seek solutions instead of stomping my feet and pouting like a little kid.
So let me get this straight...You say I'm acting like a little kid because I want to see an end to racism and discrimination in regards to the fisheries...because at the end of the day....that's all I'm asking for right now.
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Nope, reread the previous posts by me and Clarki. Clearly you lack the ability to listen or understand others' points, which is pretty unfortunate.
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Nope, reread the previous posts by me and Clarki. Clearly you lack the ability to listen or understand others' points, which is pretty unfortunate.
I read all your posts from start to finish and I apologized...what more do you want?
All I've wanted from you this whole topic is to address my point on racism and discrimination that goes on in these processes of making decisions regarding the fisheries.....and you refuse to do that.
So yeah...I am frustrated with you.
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So yeah...I am frustrated with you.
That's ok, because I'm not lol!
Like I said, I'm not about to engage in a meaningful discussion on racism and discrimination with someone who lacks the empathy and respect for others (not toward me, I couldn't care less what you think about me, since everything is based on what has been presented online), not just in this particular discussion, but in all previous threads.
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Damn, you guys need to warn us before starting something like this. Give us a chance to get some fresh popcorn ready!
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Damn, you guys need to warn us before starting something like this. Give us a chance to get some fresh popcorn ready!
Better than Fortnite. ;D
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I can feel the frustration too.
Your not alone Robert.
Time to buy some fish farm stocks...... :o
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Robart,
Until you go to a meeting with a fishing group and see that only 5 old dudes with white hair show up you don't no the frustration. Thousands of comments online and social media from people but when it comes time to go to the meetings are join groups its crickets.
People can get up at 4:30 AM, fill there boats with ther friends, take the day off work, spend 100's on gear and boat fuel.
Yet can't spend a penny to join a group or show up at a meeting a few times a year and make the time necessary to have a positive impact on the future.
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Yet can't spend a penny to join a group or show up at a meeting a few times a year and make the time necessary to have a positive impact on the future.
The APATHY among fisherfolks (and hunters to a large degree) has always been rampant.
II'm going back decades here.
Various tactics have been employed, from bribery to shaming.
None worked.
Too many expect that "someone else" will deal with the matters at hand, then openly bitch about the outcome when it comes.
This is so well recognized DFO openly admits to counting on it when dealing with the recreational sector.
It is indeed true - I have seen the enemy - and he is us.
Sadly,
Nog
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Robart,
Until you go to a meeting with a fishing group and see that only 5 old dudes with white hair show up you don't no the frustration. Thousands of comments online and social media from people but when it comes time to go to the meetings are join groups its crickets.
People can get up at 4:30 AM, fill there boats with ther friends, take the day off work, spend 100's on gear and boat fuel.
Yet can't spend a penny to join a group or show up at a meeting a few times a year and make the time necessary to have a positive impact on the future.
The APATHY among fisherfolks (and hunters to a large degree) has always been rampant.
II'm going back decades here.
Various tactics have been employed, from bribery to shaming.
None worked.
Too many expect that "someone else" will deal with the matters at hand, then openly bitch about the outcome when it comes.
This is so well recognized DFO openly admits to counting on it when dealing with the recreational sector.
It is indeed true - I have seen the enemy - and he is us.
Sadly,
Nog
Yep and yep.
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Robart,
Until you go to a meeting with a fishing group and see that only 5 old dudes with white hair show up you don't no the frustration. Thousands of comments online and social media from people but when it comes time to go to the meetings are join groups its crickets.
Can't argue with that because like I said...I've been to those meetings....although back in the 90s....we'd have about 10 old guys with white hair....and few guys in their 40s or so....
I said in an earlier post that if all the groups got together years ago....we might no be in such rough shape. But the Fraser was one of the first fisheries to be threatened to the sporties…. at that time, the salt guys still had their entire fishery going. They didn't see the need to help us Fraser River guys stop the bleeding the instant it started...and 30 years later here we are.
The sports fishermen body is now bleeding from the inside out and we're still putting bandages on the paper cuts.
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We all know that FN will continue to fish , now it will be highly visible and hopefully highly regulated! Rod has any of the chats been to fish wheels or beach seine only ? The removal of all gill nets during this time?
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We all know that FN will continue to fish , now it will be highly visible and hopefully highly regulated!
You mean all the piles and piles of Pinks and Chum (and even a steelhead) left on the beach to rot that DFO turned a complete blind eye to? Is that the regulation you hope will happen? Fact....it won't happen.
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We all know that FN will continue to fish , now it will be highly visible and hopefully highly regulated! Rod has any of the chats been to fish wheels or beach seine only ? The removal of all gill nets during this time?
Cam, I doubt the use of gill net will be eliminated anytime soon, and First Nations will continue to fish of course. The focus now shifts too selectivity. The use of pound net is on the table, beach seine will need to be practiced properly so selectivity can be achieved. Fish wheels have not really been discussed.
Second focus will be transparency of openings. It is in every sector's best interest to know when the openings are. Fisheries and Oceans Canada has done a poor job delivering that information, so rec and FN sectors will work on our own together to make sure everyone knows when and where openings occur, so violations could more easily be identified and reported.
It's good to see the saltwater rec sector willing to work with both Fraser rec and FNs now that closures are affecting the Strait. I'm sure options to get everyone out fishing again will be discussed. These will include a joint push for hatchery productions and hatchery-marked only fisheries.
Lots going on beside these, I'm sure you can get more detailed updates from BCFDF too.
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The use of pound net is on the table, beach seine will need to be practiced properly so selectivity can be achieved.
I had not heard the term "pound net" before, but I have heard about the fish traps that it describes. It seems similar in function to a weir. Sounds great for selectivity if boats can learn to avoid them. There has been some experimentation with these on the Columbia river, but for some reason they aren't being adopted widely yet.
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We all know that FN will continue to fish , now it will be highly visible and hopefully highly regulated! Rod has any of the chats been to fish wheels or beach seine only ? The removal of all gill nets during this time?
For the Tidel area below the mission bridge fish wheels and beach seins have been tired. The muddy bottom and snaggs make using a beach seign extremely difficult. Their is not enough current for fish wheels. The preferred method is drift gill nets.
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Fish wheels are effective in the lower canyon near Yale, but that won't work for the Sto-Lo fishers downstream.
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Fish wheels are effective in the lower canyon near Yale, but that won't work for the Sto-Lo fishers downstream.
I believe there was 2 at one time, at the Mouth of the Vedder (Sumas) and the other at Yale?
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let the FN, commercial, sports catch(unlimited, no rules) the last salmon as soon as possible.
Then the groups may sit down discuss to restart the stock with a fair deal.
current situation is a long term pain.
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;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSjMuKh1Wpo
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Rodney i thought there was already ongoing meetings between the groups that were formed a few years back?
Or ,was that just sport fishers and First Nations?
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Rodney i thought there was already ongoing meetings between the groups that were formed a few years back?
Or ,was that just sport fishers and First Nations?
There is the Fraser River Peacemakers, that process is still happening and some of these dialogues will draw resources from that to help for sure.
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There is the Fraser River Peacemakers, that process is still happening and some of these dialogues will draw resources from that to help for sure.
OK, Thanks.
Glad to hear that group is still meeting.
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Yep. It might seem like no progress has been made in the past decade from these processes, but people really gotta remember that these are issues that have been built up since a century ago and it's not going to change overnight.
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Rome wasnt built in a day and if it was id hire that contractor to fix this mess.
I appreciate your patience and effort and time that you put into the many fish/fishing related causes out there and im sure everyone else appreciates it as well.
Once again.
Thanks Rod.