Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Fight The HST!  (Read 145269 times)

IronNoggin

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1772
  • Any River... Any Time....
Fight The HST!
« on: March 12, 2010, 11:20:50 AM »

Although Gordo and The Clowns believe their HST program is a Done Deal, this is really not the case.
As most are likely aware, this new tax-grab will affect a great many areas that have been previously tax free (un-tapped resources in Gordo's Twisted point of view). These range from taxing services to re-taxing used vehicle sales and more. The average Family will end up pouring even more of their earnings into the LIEberals coffers to support more foolish and worthless pet projects.

Tired of being amongst the most taxed population in this Country? Not quite willing to freely bend over and let them increase those taxes yet again? Want to send a CLEAR message you have had enough of this BS?

This: http://fighthst.com/ has a very real chance of succeeding! Why not join us on April 6 and send a LOUD message to Gordo as to just who the April Fool may be!  ;)
This group still needs a few volunteers. I will be offering my services to promote this exercise, and truly believe that each British Columbian should consider doing the same!

For those that might like the imposition of yet another tax here in BC, I leave you with Rick Mercer's thoughts on the matter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLfm6XKtRHI

GET INVOLVED FOLKS! It ain't too late to send the message that we are FED UP! Even if it is a simple as ensuring you sign the petition, please, for all our sakes, do so!

Cheers,
Nog
Logged

doja

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 481
Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2010, 11:57:40 AM »

I'm sorry but fighting the HST seems to be a poorly thought out idea.... they will just find other ways, they always do, if your even lucky enough to succeed.

They are taking money from BC hydro, ICBC... ever wonder why claims are down some years but you never see a refund, they just keep shaving from the top of the slush fund.

You need to go to the root of the problem.... Spending...IE: 20 billion a year to fight against threats from who? The Taliban....ya, Ok, maybe if they were an actual threat worthy of such monies.... Hitler, on the other hand was an actual threat. But you will find large opposition from government contractors!

How much money did we spend on a silly game called the "Olyimpics", and following are budget cuts, HST, but not to head governments.

There are many other wasteful spending practices going on and that is where people should be focusing their attention.... Or, prepare to buck up!

However I do applaud you for actually trying to do something... I would love for nothing more than to make a move on the government but with so few people willing to give up their time and monies and gather on the same page I do strongly believe they, the government, will always win.... but I still have some hope, albeit quickly fading. :-\ :(
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 02:44:22 PM by doja »
Logged

steve B

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 91
Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2010, 01:19:22 PM »

ahh they just need to tax big businesses instead going after working class folk some barley make ends meat damn liberal government why they got voted in i have no idea should have been NDP i know i voted NDP. Vote NDP send the HST back to Ontario where it belongs its expensive enough to live out here now. That slimball gordon campbell dont like him never will like him he needs to take a long walk off a VERY short peir then we should all sit on the peir and cast lots of barbed treble hooks at him DOWN WITH THE HST I SAY.
Logged

alwaysfishn

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2364
Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2010, 02:26:27 PM »

Vote NDP ..... send the HST back to Ontario where it belongs its expensive enough to live out here now.

Isn't that called "Jumping from the frying pan into the fire"?

Don't be deceived into thinking the NDP would do anything different. The BC government needs the HST tax dollars and if it doesn't implement the HST it will get the tax dollars somewhere else .

At least the liberals are attracting businesses to invest in BC. New business investment means jobs and tax dollars. I'm afraid the NDP has the reputation for scaring business investment out of the province.

That being said the liberals are no where near perfect, but be careful what you wish for.....

Logged
Disclosure:  This post has not been approved by the feedlot boys, therefore will likely be found to contain errors and statements that are out of context. :-[

chris gadsden

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13880
Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2010, 05:51:51 PM »

Thanks Nog, I will be volunteering to help on gathering petitions starting on the 6th.

I know we all have to pay taxes but I get sick of hearing the present government saying we have the lowest taxes in Canada but they do not tell of all the other ways they have and are raising other taxes that we actually pay in the long run. Then they said before the last election they would not be bringing in the HST but they promptly announced they would after they got another 4 year mandate.

They always criticize how badly the NDP managed the Province's finances in the 1990's but our debt has risen every year since the Liberals have been elected.

Besides they have not in my mind done much to help our salmon, steelhead stocks and the environment the last while but have done the opposite with their expansion of fish farms, run of the river projects etc.

Time for a change to see if another party can do better, at least they can do no worse in my mind.

island boy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 333
Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2010, 09:57:42 PM »

the only reason the NDP did not get voted in was because of Carol James. get a new leader and they will get the votes.
Logged
you kill it, you clean it.

Fish Assassin

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10807
Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2010, 12:12:07 AM »

the only reason the NDP did not get voted in was because of Carol James. get a new leader and they will get the votes.

Like pretty boy Gregor Robertson ?
Logged

IronNoggin

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1772
  • Any River... Any Time....
Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2010, 05:08:29 PM »

Then they said before the last election they would not be bringing in the HST but they promptly announced they would after they got another 4 year mandate.

They always criticize how badly the NDP managed the Province's finances in the 1990's but our debt has risen every year since the Liberals have been elected.

Besides they have not in my mind done much to help our salmon, steelhead stocks and the environment the last while but have done the opposite with their expansion of fish farms, run of the river projects etc.

Time for a change to see if another party can do better, at least they can do no worse in my mind.

Agreed Chris, and Many THANKS for lending support in the HST Cause! Enough of us get behind this, we really do have a very good chance of stopping it!
Get on board Folks!  8)

Cheers,
Nog
Logged

arimaBOATER

  • Guest
Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2010, 06:39:13 PM »

This Gordo has to go....
Agree that most do not see Carol James as a leader so they should put Moore to head the NDP. HE'S A GOOD SPEAKER ...LOOKS PEOPLE IN THE EYES...& NOT MEDIA SHY plus he's got something between the ears !!!
Thus as it is Gordo keeps his power & gets re-elected.
Sometimes I think the world is going thru so much "CRAP" (so much scandals/crime/deceptions in bussiness plus lies & more lies by our elected politians) people just shake their heads....& just don't care anymore.
 When Gordo was in opposition he called the elect of the day..."pigs at the trough"...but since he's been in power...ya guessed it...he's given himself alot of increases $$$ wise.

Then he brought in Bill 19 (I think it was called) where 1000's lost their jobs !!! Only to have it challenged by the highest court of the land. Results were that what Gordo did was WRONG !!!

Then he said he would not sell the BC Rail.....well the CNR now is the new owner.
He is behind our increases in fuel tax...& we BC residents pay SUPER BIG INCREASED COSTS in our electricty & natural gas....
He said HST will not be brought in...well (honesty he is going to bring out a fart tax as it increases the green house problem) Gordo is a bone head. Yes lets not accept this crappy new tax. :o   This fart tax is coming one day ...just watch!!! Unless we get rid of Mr LONG NOSE.

« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 06:44:49 PM by arimaBOATER »
Logged

alwaysfishn

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2364
Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2010, 07:19:56 PM »

The HST is coming in ..... like it or not! The government needs more tax dollars! The alternative is cutting services. Watch the protests if that was proposed. I don't understand where people think the government gets money to spend on the stuff everybody wants???  

Eventually every province will have it because it makes more sense than having 2 taxes! I believe the BC government is supposed to get a 1.5 billion one time payment from the Feds when it implements the HST. Now that is an incentive that will be impossible for the BC government to turn down.

I would much rather have a transparent tax like the HST than more hidden taxes that most people aren't aware of (like the gas taxes). If I was to protest the HST, I would be lobbying to exempt some products and services like used cars sold privately for example or professional services. In both of these cases we'll now be paying both GST and PST.

As far as the NDP coming back in......   sorry I'm still having Glenn Clark nightmares!   ???

Logged
Disclosure:  This post has not been approved by the feedlot boys, therefore will likely be found to contain errors and statements that are out of context. :-[

IronNoggin

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1772
  • Any River... Any Time....
Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2010, 08:14:05 PM »

...I believe the BC government is supposed to get a 1.5 billion one time payment from the Feds when it implements the HST. Now that is an incentive that will be impossible for the BC government to turn down.

OR...
Twist to their advantage regardless of the cost?  ???

Quote
Why March 24 Will Define BC's Fiscal Managers
That's when the Campbell government might defy its own contract with Ottawa, costing BC taxpayers millions.

By Will McMartin, 8 Mar 2010, TheTyee.ca

...

The nub of the issue is this:

The Campbell government merely needs to carry through on a single, simple clause in a contract it has signed with the federal government in order to trigger an extra half billion dollars in payments from the feds to hard-hit provincial coffers this year.

But so far it seems the Campbell government does not intend to follow through. And if it doesn't, the premier and his finance minister can expect some hard questions directed their way come March 25. Questions like:

Why are the taxpayers now being made to pay interest on hundreds of millions of dollars in debt that could have been avoided?

Is it because we are being forced to pick up the bill for the B.C. Liberal party's political strategy to win in 2014?

Assuming I have your interest, then, what follows is the explanation for why March 24 is such an important date for the B.C. taxpayer -- and possibly for the political future of the B.C. Liberals.

A contract in black and white

At issue on March 24 is the tabling of a bill to repeal B.C.'s social service (sales) tax. This legislation would make way for the new federal-provincial Harmonized Sales Tax (HST), which comes into effect in less than four months on July 1.

Negotiated last summer, the deal between Ottawa and Victoria requires the federal government to pay B.C. $1.599 billion in "transitional assistance." A schedule of the timing of those federal payments was included in the contract signed by both parties. [see pp. 45 and 46 at this link.]

According to the contract, Ottawa must give B.C. the first $750 million installment of those transition monies "within seven days of the tabling by the province of legislation to wind-down the Provincial Sales Tax (PST) of the province."

The second payment of $374 million is due "on the first business day following the implementation date," and the final $475 million installment will be paid exactly one year later.

In effect, British Columbia should get $750 million this spring, within a week of moving to repeal the provincial sales tax, $374 million on July 2, and $475 million on the same date in the next calendar year.

Pretty clear, right? If Victoria moves expeditiously to repeal the provincial sales tax by bringing in legislation before March 24 (which is seven days before the end of the fiscal period), B.C. will get a $750 million payment in the current fiscal year just ending (2009/10). This payment will be followed by transfers of $374 million and $475 million (in 2010/11 and 2011/12, respectively).

A mysterious intent to delay

However, as was reported in The Tyee last Tuesday by both Andrew MacLeod and this writer, the Campbell Liberals want to delay acceptance of those federal monies. This delay is wanted even though the provincial government expects a $2.8 billion deficit in the current fiscal year (which ends on March 31), and sees a $1.7 billion shortfall in the next fiscal period.

According to last Tuesday's budget and fiscal plan [see p. 12 at this link], B.C. wants to record just $250 million in federal transition monies this year (down from the contracted $750 million), and then $769 million and $580 million over the next two years.

The apparent reason the Campbell Liberals want to postpone those federal monies is that, as was outlined last summer on The Tyee, they want to deliberately create a massive post-election deficit -- a deficit which will gradually be whittled down to a balanced or surplus budget in advance of the next general election, which is scheduled for 2013.

The Campbell Liberals, therefore, believe that the federal HST monies are not required now, less than a year after the last general election. They are required later, closer to the next electoral contest. It's a political calculation, not a fiscal decision, that is motivating Victoria to seek to delay Ottawa's transition funding.

There is much more, including the ramifications of this slick little twist: http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2010/03/08/McMartinBCBudget/index.html

Quote
I would much rather have a transparent tax like the HST than more hidden taxes that most people aren't aware of (like the gas taxes).

You mean "on top of"...  ???

Quote
If I was to protest the HST, I would be lobbying to exempt some products and services like used cars sold privately for example or professional services. In both of these cases we'll now be paying both GST and PST.

And therein lies the Crunch. A LOT more Businesses and of course People than Gordo et al suggest will be negatively effected once they begin paying taxes on the great many items/services previously exempt from one or the other. Bad News Scenario when attempting (or at least supposedly) to draw a dwindling economy back to life.

Quote
As far as the NDP coming back in......   sorry I'm still having Glenn Clark nightmares!   ???

He ain't there any more. IMHO Gordo has been, and continues to be Worse. Really.  ;)

Cheers,
Nog
Logged

alwaysfishn

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2364
Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2010, 08:48:29 PM »

I don't understand where people think the government gets money to spend on the stuff everybody wants???  

You missed a question..........    ;D
Logged
Disclosure:  This post has not been approved by the feedlot boys, therefore will likely be found to contain errors and statements that are out of context. :-[

arimaBOATER

  • Guest
Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2010, 12:10:57 AM »

Nog's info on a "balancing scale" & now alwaysfishn's info on this debate on the other side  ...ok let's see let's see... ok ok ok ...
Nog's side is going down so he wins the debate !!!!

alwaysfishn when gov's need their billions to spend on this & that skytrain hospitals roads schools etc... and they are taxing the people...and they know they will be need $$$ to keep everything going...why then do they take on the Olympics with 1 billion spent just for security !!! Let alone all the other things...
Now it's time after the party to pay up...
What I'm saying is when ya got politians who give themselves big yearly pay cheques then set themselves up with the greatest pensions...& who knows after they retire they sit on some "board" or are a so called "consultant" by some big friendly companies......sorry but politians who have caught lying over & over are like rust on a car...don't trust the guy as far as I can spit. When they spend our tax money like candy out of a machine...when they should be budgeting...sure meet the demands of the needs but do so wisely & don't spend BILLIONS on the parties (winter games) when we do not have oil wells pumping out of the ground.. or major gold mines.  Take it easy Gordo how ya spend & take it easy how ya are going for increase this now let's increase that ...oh it's been 2 mos now...we need another increase ...the guy's out of control.....
« Last Edit: March 19, 2010, 12:12:30 AM by arimaBOATER »
Logged

Fish Assassin

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10807
Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2010, 12:17:40 AM »


What I'm saying is when ya got politians who give themselves big yearly pay cheques then set themselves up with the greatest pensions...& who knows after they retire they sit on some "board" or are a so called "consultant" by some big friendly companies......sorry but politians who have caught lying over & over are like rust on a car...don't trust the guy as far as I can spit. When they spend our tax money like candy out of a machine...when they should be budgeting...sure meet the demands of the needs but do so wisely & don't spend BILLIONS on the parties (winter games) when we do not have oil wells pumping out of the ground.. or major gold mines.  Take it easy Gordo how ya spend & take it easy how ya are going for increase this now let's increase that ...oh it's been 2 mos now...we need another increase ...the guy's out of control.....

Easy to criticize Campbell for this and that...remember when the MLA's voted themselves a hefty pay raise ? The NDP supported the pay increase til the public outcry forced them to abandon it.
Logged

IronNoggin

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1772
  • Any River... Any Time....
Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2010, 12:12:30 PM »

I don't understand where people think the government gets money to spend on the stuff everybody wants???

Actually didn't miss it always. Kinda figured you'd get back on that point. And since it is it's own whole can of worms, it is likely worthy of a stand-alone response...

"Everybody Wants". Hmmmm... Let's just have a little boo at that shall we...

The Winter Olympics, while they did instill a sense of National Pride, they were in fact a very serious blow to the financial picture in this Province. We all witnessed the cuts to such Mother & Apple Pie services as Health, Education and more to put this not-so-little party for the Rich & Famous together. Those made headlines, many other related cuts (or stripping of budgets to finance "the party") were intentionally buried. With Gordo's direct oversight, no-one actually knows what the bottom line for this fiasco is, and if he has his way, no-one ever will realize the depth of the related debt. You can rest assured however that we (you, I and every other taxpaying citizen of BC) WILL be paying for them for a considerably long period of time.
The LIEberals would have you believe the latest budget "builds on momentum from hosting the Olympics". Momentum? Non-existent in forward momentum except in the fairy-tale fantasy world of the present Dictator. In fact, if there is any "momentum" at all, it is directly related to increasing the overall Provincial debt, increasing the interest rates on an ever-growing deficit, and driving the provincial economy even deeper into the abyss. Not something most would be in favor of continuing to "build on" methinks.
Several polls well indicated that were the Olympic fiasco to be put to a public vote prior to their occurrence, the majority of those in the Province located outside of the LML would have been in opposition. Appears that this is one example of "everyone wants"? Not likely.

Are there more examples of what "everyone wants"? Why certainly...

- Phasing-out the Corporation Capital Tax which generated $100 million-plus annually for Victoria over most of the last decade and was applied mainly to the country's big banks. The Banks are certainly Happy, but the tax-payer picks up the tab. Everyone Wants?

- At the same time the above noted tax on the banks etc was being eliminated, Carole Taylor, Hansen's predecessor at the finance department introduced a new levy called the Financial Institutions Minimum Tax. This was designed to ensure that Canada's banks, insurance companies and trusts, all headquartered outside B.C. -- and very, very profitable -- nonetheless would continue to pay some monies (albeit much-reduced than formerly) directly into the provincial treasury.
Hansen and his government colleagues instead opted to repeal the minimum financial institutions tax -- even before it takes effect! So, two years after deciding to forgo most of the $100 million-plus generated annually for the province by the corporation capital tax -- instead accepting a one-time payment $48 million -- the Campbell Liberals now have resolved to let Canada's big banks keep the entire amount and pay nothing to Victoria. Again, the Banks are Happy. Is this another example of what the taxpayer on the hook for this shortfall "wants"?

- The "shell game" of deferring federal funding transfers related to the HST (see my last post above) results in an additional accumulation 75 million PLUS in interest charges that will be borne by the tax base. Somewhat effective ploy for the LIEberals - as the deferred funding will now show up just in time to help "balance" the budget prior to the next election, allowing Gordo to LIE once again and claim that the "balance" is somehow due to he and his team's efforts. An overt attempt to sway their own political aspirations, at the direct cost to the taxpaying public. I'm sure the LIEberal's very much like this idea. What about "everyone" else?

At a time when spending "restraint" and a VERY scrutinizing eye should be focusing on PRIORITIZATION of that spending should be the overwhelming focus of the day, Gordo and The Clowns continue to spend tax dollars as if there was an endless supply. The largest beneficiaries are of course Big Business and the personal friends of those in power. Amongst the "priorities" the gov "promised" to attend to, and which have subsequently fallen off the table as the stars got realigned in favor of the LIEberals and their increasingly well-off cronies, are:

- Jobless rate has increased rather than decreased. Appears all the lip-service given to this issue was indeed little more than LIES directed to ensure they got elected the last time around. This trend is noted in the current budget to continue well into 2013 and beyond.

- Child Poverty is the HIGHEST in Canada. Another set of LIES. Beyond more lip-service, little if anything is being done by Gordo et al to address this pressing situation.

- At the time when most rural Communities are struggling, there's no plan for rural economic development. In fact the resource ministries that are supposed to oversee and responsibly develop opportunities in the sectors (sectors that drive the majority of rural communities btw) have had their budgets slashed to the tune of 320 million plus. Guess that's OK if you reside in the Big Smoke and snuggle up closely with the Fools On The Hill. As for the rest (most) of the province: Everyone Wants?

- The Housing and Social Development ministry's budget showed a decrease in spending on housing and employment programs, despite an increase in the amounts spent on disability and income assistance. The Crown agency B.C. Housing, however, has seen its budget go up to $900 million from $627 million last year, with a provincial contribution four times what it was a few years ago.

- Despite "maintaining" funding for Health and Education, Professionals in both fields have been very critical of the new budget:
Rachel Tutte, co-chair of the B.C. Health Coalition: "It looks like further cuts to our health care system."
Health Sciences Association of B.C. president Reid Johnson: "It's a no-news budget and that's not good news for British Columbians in terms of health care"
Cindy Oliver president of the Federation of Post-secondary Educators of B.C.: "Spending was flat. I was really disappointed"
Of course "topping" these portfolios up a little makes political sense, they are amongst the utmost importance to the public after all. Might have made even more sense had those same ministries not been stripped of funding previously to pay for a handful of worthless "pet projects".

And the list goes on...

Who can forget:
- Privitization of BC rail - LIE
- Privitization of BC Ferries - LIE

And of course on the environmental front:

- ROR projects EXEMPT from Environmental Impact Studies. Destruction of huge habitat components that cannot help but push the fisheries resources even further towards the edge, while at the same time handing control of our Provinces rivers over to Foreign interests in perpetuity.

- Gravel extraction from proven fish spawning / rearing habitat.

- Promoting Fish Farms Hell Bent for Leather and DAMN any potential consequences.

- Slashing MOE's budgets to the point they are barely even a presence.

And on and on and on and...

Methinks you'll get the picture. A little digging and you'll discover a WHOLE lot more...

Easy to criticize Campbell for this and that...remember when the MLA's voted themselves a hefty pay raise ? The NDP supported the pay increase til the public outcry forced them to abandon it.

Ah, but WHO brought it in? Gordo not only runs a sharp whip over his underlings' backs to keep them in line, but also tosses them an economic bone to help insure their continued alliance. Gotta look after your Flock you see...  ::)

So, as pretty well anyone with eyes that are open can see, it isn't so much a case of "Everyone Wants", but rather "Everyone Left Wanting" under Gordo's reign.
Their complete lack of fiscal responsibility and the subsequent fall-out is VERY much of their own making. In their minds it is a simple matter to address, figure out just how to increase taxes once again. As in "Suck It Up" Joe Public, and cough for their indiscretionary spending.

Well, I say ENOUGH! And I am by no means alone in this mindset. I am hoping there are enough of us that do have our eyes open and are fed up with blindly following along regardless of the related personal and overall costs to our Society and Environment. Time to STOP being Sheeple Folks, and let them know their actions are by no means what "Everyone Wants".

Cheers,
Nog
Logged