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Author Topic: Chehalis???  (Read 14412 times)

Big Steel

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Re: Chehalis???
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2005, 04:55:33 PM »

Thanks Biff, I've got the emails addresses.  I will use them, but I do think that EVERONE HERE should join me and take a couple minutes everyday to bug the crap out of them!!!!! ;) ;)
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Rodney

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Re: Chehalis???
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2005, 05:16:00 PM »

Sigh... ::)

Why do people always feel they have every right to "harrass" public servants, in the hope of getting some changes made, without sufficient political, scientific background research on the situation? So harrassment and bugging are now efficient tactics to get things moving in this country?

That delete button is going to come in very handy on a lot of people's computers soon...

The Chehalis water diversion issue will be brought up again when the SFAC meets with the Chehalis First Nation at the FN dialogue session next Wednesday.

Want to make your voices heard? Join an affiliation that deal with fishery issues through proper channels. Fraser Valley Salmon Society would be one, the annual fee is the cost of gas from Vancouver to Vedder.

bbronswyk2000

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Re: Chehalis???
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2005, 05:28:43 PM »

Sigh... ::)

Why do people always feel they have every right to "harrass" public servants, in the hope of getting some changes made, without sufficient political, scientific background research on the situation? So harrassment and bugging are now efficient tactics to get things moving in this country?

That delete button is going to come in very handy on a lot of people's computers soon...

The Chehalis water diversion issue will be brought up again when the SFAC meets with the Chehalis First Nation at the FN dialogue session next Wednesday.

Want to make your voices heard? Join an affiliation that deal with fishery issues through proper channels. Fraser Valley Salmon Society would be one, the annual fee is the cost of gas from Vancouver to Vedder.

I know you didn't say political.... Were you here when the NDP was spending, spending, spending and putting our economy in the crapper? I say forgot about the politicians as they are about as usefull as a dirty snotrag when it comes to the environment. People need to stand together and do things on their own sometimes. I for one wouldn't harass a public servant but would harass a politician as we elected them in. I would go to the river and do things on my own. I do belong to the Fraser Valley Salmon Society and I do write letters to my members of Parliament when it calls for. Most of the time it does not even get a response.

For instance I have been pushing for a dock at Mike Lake in Maple Ridge. They make you park for $5 and the place is a swamp and barely reachable to launch a float tube or anything else for that matter. I have written 5 letters, made 3 phone calls and nothing. You see sometimes they just don't give a rats a%%.... I am hopefully going to be building this dock myself in the spring with some help hopefully.

If we could find out what ramifications their would be from changing the river the way it is now, to a new route I would be up for helping in a heartbeat.
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Rodney

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Re: Chehalis???
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2005, 05:38:51 PM »

The Chehalis hatchery issue was initially discussed in late August with the Chehalis First Nation and DFO. Here's what happened:

It was confirmed that this topic had been suggested at the last dialogue session as an agenda item of interest, and that the approach taken was to make initial inquiries to confirm that the topic belonged at the table.  In this case, Jessica had talked with Jim Thomas and decided that indeed it was a worthwhile topic because in addition to the Chehalis hatchery issue, it was her understanding that there may be some recreational fishery access issues through Chehalis reserve lands and that this topic might also relate to other First Nations. 

The group briefly determined that discussion today would focus on the hatchery issue specifically. Robert Hope and Lester Mussell said they did not need to discuss fisheries access issues at this time. Jim Thomas said he couldn’t speak for Chehalis on this, but thought that if the issue of flow to the hatchery wasn’t resolved, the need to address the issue may arise.

Jim Thomas provided the group with some background on the current situation at the Chehalis hatchery, and explained that things had started with a significant storm event on October 17, 2003.  The storm blew out the dyke at the dogleg near the access at Morris Valley Road and changed the flow regime in the Chehalis River causing the hatchery to be dewatered.  It also caused some damage to reserve lands and a disruption to angling because the river flowed through the forest. In late 2004, there were minor attempts to change the flow regime back and some water was rerouted back to the hatchery via the old river channel. Angling opportunities had improved because of this.  Jim also shared some interesting biological information – last year there were 1.7 million chum salmon in the Chehalis (possibly the largest biological group in North America), which confirms the species’ ability to recolonize the new channel. Jim said he thinks this will lead to an improvement in the resource and doesn’t think the river can be changed back. He reported that the provincial Ministry of Environment is proposing to dyke a large area of the reserve to stabilize the new channel.   

Jim confirmed that efforts this year to further increase flow to the hatchery would need to be done soon to fit in the instream works fisheries window (before mid September). There was discussion about whether the changed flow regime was impacting hatchery production.  This is believed to be the case, for example, Gwyn Joiner pointed out that the Chilliwack hatchery might supply Chehalis with Chilliwak chinook because the Chehalis can’t get their own with the new flow regime. It was confirmed that Larry Kahl, the Chehalis hatchery manager, needed to be brought onside with any planning.

The group has a lengthy discussion about an approach to instream works. Jim suggested that a small project to dredge a portion of the river to divert some flow to the hatchery might be feasible. Jim indicated that the Chehalis First Nation might be interested in doing this because they are worried about potential impacts from the new flow regime on the Chehalis healing centre. It was pointed out that the Chehalis is a very dynamic system as seen from the numerous channels in the estuary. Any small instream work would probably need emergency approval to get going in time. Matt Foy would be a key DFO contact as well as an engineer. Nick Basok estimated it might cost $4000 to dig a small channel (~3 x 10 x 30 m), but had heard DFO has no money. Bill Wimpney pointed out that if there was group support, we could get funding from the Pacific Salmon Commission. Steelhead Aggregates may also be a source.

Nick Basok summarized the discussion by pointing out that there are broad benefits to improving the flow to the hatchery: more fish returning, more fish for the Chehalis rack fishery, more angling opportunities and less flood risk on reserve.

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Re: Chehalis???
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2005, 05:45:51 PM »

I say forgot about the politicians as they are about as usefull as a dirty snotrag when it comes to the environment. I for one wouldn't harass a public servant but would harass a politician as we elected them in. I do write letters to my members of Parliament when it calls for. Most of the time it does not even get a response.

For instance I have been pushing for a dock at Mike Lake in Maple Ridge. They make you park for $5 and the place is a swamp and barely reachable to launch a float tube or anything else for that matter. I have written 5 letters, made 3 phone calls and nothing. You see sometimes they just don't give a rats a%%.... I am hopefully going to be building this dock myself in the spring with some help hopefully.

No replies to so many calls, letters, or "harrassment" to the politicians, maybe the approach needs to be changed? If one approaches another and does not intend to be respectful right from the beginning, the recipient will probably just ignore him or her.

Might want to look for a permit for that homemade dock. Liability issues that lead to safety and lawsuits would be your first concerns.

bbronswyk2000

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Re: Chehalis???
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2005, 05:55:43 PM »

I say forgot about the politicians as they are about as usefull as a dirty snotrag when it comes to the environment. I for one wouldn't harass a public servant but would harass a politician as we elected them in. I do write letters to my members of Parliament when it calls for. Most of the time it does not even get a response.

For instance I have been pushing for a dock at Mike Lake in Maple Ridge. They make you park for $5 and the place is a swamp and barely reachable to launch a float tube or anything else for that matter. I have written 5 letters, made 3 phone calls and nothing. You see sometimes they just don't give a rats a%%.... I am hopefully going to be building this dock myself in the spring with some help hopefully.

No replies to so many calls, letters, or "harrassment" to the politicians, maybe the approach needs to be changed? If one approaches another and does not intend to be respectful right from the beginning, the recipient will probably just ignore him or her.

Might want to look for a permit for that homemade dock. Liability issues that lead to safety and lawsuits would be your first concerns.

You are quick to assume that they are harassment letters ( harassment is with one "r" not 2 "r's )
I took some business in school and some law ( didn't finish them but still learned enough to get by ). I know how to talk to people and how to go about getting my point across when the time comes. I don't harass I write letters, give the appropriate time for a response and write again.

You see this is how I work. If you are a man of high intelligence than I will talk to you in that manner as my point will be made much clearer. If you are a redneck than I will talk to you in a manner in which you are accustom to. Different ways for different people. Thats the way to get through to people.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2005, 05:57:45 PM by eddie99 »
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Rodney

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Re: Chehalis???
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2005, 05:59:04 PM »

You are quick to assume that they are harassment letters ( harassment is with one "r" not 2 "r's )
I took some business in school and some law ( didst finish them but still learned enough to get by ). I know who to talk to people and how to go about getting my point across when the time comes. I don't harass I write letters, give the appropriate time for a response and write again.

You see this is how I work. If you are a man of high intelligence than I will talk to you in that manner as my point will be made much clearer. If you are a redneck than I will talk to you in a manner in which you are accustom to. Different ways for different people. Thats the way to get through to people.

You're the one who suggested that you only haRass politicians, not I.

So that's how you work eh, treating people differently based on their educational background? Nice to know.

How about, treat others like the way you would like to be treated?

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Re: Chehalis???
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2005, 06:06:13 PM »

I never said treat, you did. I said talk. I have a wide range of friends, they include jocks, scholars, rednecks and guess what I speak to them all differently. My point is the same but the language in which I use is different. You did not understand what I was saying. Maybe ask questions before assuming. I did say harass politicians and I would if I needed to. In such cases that I have been involved in I have not needed to take that approach. In 99% of cases I would not take that approach, it would only be in desperation that I would use such a tactic.
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Rodney

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Re: Chehalis???
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2005, 06:28:19 PM »

Um ya ok, thanks for the lesson...

Uh, why did you jump in and defend yourself in the first place when I mentioned harassment of public servant is unnecessary? My concern was when Big Steel suggested people should contact the DFO staff emails provided and bug the crap out of them. Were you just assuming that I was talking about you? Or am I assuming that you were assuming that I was talking about you? Or...?

Big Steel

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Re: Chehalis???
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2005, 07:04:18 PM »

Well Rodney, the statement " bug the crap out of them" was just a statement.  Do you really think that in these emails that I would have been, how you like to think,"bugging the crap out of them".  You talk to people on this site how you shouldn't assume anything, you should ask for an explanation of what a post really meant.  I didn't see that, I saw you attacking me in front of everyone before you asked for a clarification.  But whatever.  Furthermore, you and various other people on this site keep preaching that we should get off our butt's and try and make a difference, but it seems that you only want people to help if you can run it, which is fine, for you.  I don't have the money to donate funds for these measures that have been posted in various threads recently.  I believe that there was a few that your organizations were asking for donations, and one from Gadson that was asking for a minimum of $200 for raffle prizes.  I am putting my fiance through school right now, so I don't usually have $10 let alone $200. 
  So I am sorry if you think that I was just going to harass the dfo.  I am trying to do what I can with the limited amount of resources that I have to do with it.  I am a very bright person, that doesn't like being talked down to by someone that has a degree in whatever it is that you do.  I have a degree in life, and I know what has worked for me in the past.
  So if you would like me to just sit on my hands and do nothing, well who knows, maybe I will do just that!!!! 
  Rod I like you, I like your site, but really.   Not all of us on this site are mindless.  I for one was just going to ask for an update about the chehalis, what was in the plans for dealing with the situation, and what was the time frame going to be. Then let them now that I was just a concerned fisherman.  I was even going to say thanks for your time.  That was were the start was going to be for me.  Now for what everone else was going to do, maybe nothing for that matter, I haven't got a clue.  Neither do you.
PS Rodney, I don't think that other people like being talked down to as well.  Is it just me or have you been a bit cranky lately!!!!! ::) ::)
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bbronswyk2000

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Re: Chehalis???
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2005, 07:17:00 PM »

Um ya ok, thanks for the lesson...

Uh, why did you jump in and defend yourself in the first place when I mentioned harassment of public servant is unnecessary? My concern was when Big Steel suggested people should contact the DFO staff emails provided and bug the crap out of them. Were you just assuming that I was talking about you? Or am I assuming that you were assuming that I was talking about you? Or...?

I am done arguing semantics
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Rodney

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Re: Chehalis???
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2005, 07:22:09 PM »

Nina calls me, Moody Rodney. ;)

My previous post was a generalize statement, wasn't intended to focus on you only. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be "bugging" the crap out of them, but please keep in mind ANYONE can have access to this forum. When I say anyone, I mean, anyone who has the ability to read, to use the internet, at any age. When you make the statement, "EVERONE HERE should join me and take a couple minutes everyday to bug the crap out of them!!!!!" some people would take it literally! I don't want to hear from these staff later on at the next meetings that people have been sending in these emails because FWR forum is telling them to. That's why I quickly jumped in before and expressed my thoughts to prevent that from happening. So, apology goes to you for seemingly singling you out, but the concern still stands.

My frustration lately stems from working with DFO staff, who are pushed to the limit to provide a recreational sockeye opening, to lack of attendance at the river cleanup, which some of my colleagues spent countless hours to make sure it ran smoothly. A month ago, a good portion of this forum participants wanted a protest on the absence of recreational sockeye fishery while FN fished, in the name of conservation! Once a sockeye opening was given, people were happy and all of a sudden conservation concerns disappeared!

By the way, I don't run any of these events. The Help Habitat Fundraiser is run by the Chilliwack River Action Committee, the river cleanup is run by the Chilliwack/Vedder River Cleanup Coalition, the upcoming SDA fundraiser is run by the Sportfishing Defence Alliance... so on. I am simply using this website as an existing tool to broadcast the information for them, I couldn't care less if the website is mentioned when the events are held.

These groups don't expect people to chip in money constantly, but they cannot exist without people's volutneer or financial support. People need to understand that the resulting benefits from these projects come back to them.

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Re: Chehalis???
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2005, 07:30:30 PM »

I have been involved in 5 cleanups so far this year. I do my part in every way possible. I donate money when the opportunity comes along. I write letters to try and make a difference. The one thing that bothers me on any of these forums is the people that complain and don't do anything about any of the problems. If you want to complain start making a difference. Its just like the people that don't vote and than complain about government. If you don't vote than shut up since you didn't make a difference.

Thats my rant for the day.......
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chris gadsden

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Re: Chehalis???
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2005, 08:38:40 PM »

Big Steel just to clarify my statement. I said I was going to donate a minimum of $200 to buy prizes for the SDA fundraiser, not asking everyone to do the same. As a director of the SDA I like the other directors which are far too few by the way have to do most of gathering of the prizes for the event.

I just hate doing this to be honest with you so I instead will donate money to buy prizes instead of taking the time which is taken up by too many such commitees ( I know no ones fault but my own) to fullfil my obligations as a director.

As I stated earlier anyone that can donate prizes no matter how small or buy a ticket it will be greatly appreciated. I also have had one donation and two other inquires come in for the SDA the last two days.Thanks guys. Others feel free to PM me if you are able to help out.

Also one other thing, organizations like the FVSS, Drift Fishers, SDA, Chilliwack River Action Comittee, Chilliwack/Vedder River Cleanup Coalition, and many more similar groups along with all their directors that are working for you the sports angler to protect all our fishing opportunities and help perserve fish stocks for the future.

Thanks also must go to FWR for giving a number of these organazations the use of this web page to promote their events.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2005, 08:43:11 PM by chris gadsden »
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Big Steel

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Re: Chehalis???
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2005, 08:39:40 PM »

OK first, Nice fish, I would hope that I would not get in "trouble" for that little statement.  I was mearly expressing my view/opinion.  Afterall, this is a discusion forum is it not!!!! ;)
To you Rod, yes I second your concern.  I should have chosen more appropriate words I suppose.  I did not mention harassment, I do not want to harass DFO.  All i wanted was for people out there to voice there concerns on the situation. If DFO gets a couple of hundred, well thoughout and respectfull emails, maybe they might do something about the problem.  But to be honest with you I don't know if that would work.  I have not seen much if any action in any of the matters concerning FN.  They seem to be turning a blind eye to pretty much everything right now.  So I don't know if anything would help.  But emailing them, to me is better than nothing.  I was already told that if we went to try and fix it ourselves, which wouldn't be that hard with enough man power, that dfo would stop us and fine us.  Not to mention what the First Nations might do if we tried this.  It feels like our hands are tied.  I think that everyone agrees that the level of mismanagement in the DFO is astonishing.  Maybe the emails will let them know that we are watching, as if they didn't already know!!!! Maybe we should be making our concerns known to someone that can do something about the mismanagement of our fish stocks. I don't know who this would be. Who is a higher power than DFO??? Maybe we should be talking to them.
  Anyhow, I don't have a lot of stats or figures for any of this, I will leave that to the wiz kids of the internet.  But I do see first hand what is going on on the rivers.  I do listen to what is being said on the rivers, the views and concerns of many fishermen. I myself would put more stock in what I here from an old pro that has been on the river for thirty years and has seen it all then I would all the stats you can pull up that were done by a bunch of pencil pushers that have never been on the river.  This is not a shot at you Rod or anyone else on this site.  It is shot at the pencil pushers working for various organizations that try to tell you how it is without ever being there.  Stats don't tell the whole story sometimes.
 Anyhow, I am sorry for my wording, I should have thought it out a bit more ;) ;)

eddie99 who were you referring to????? Because Rod makes a difference and you say that you do, so who does that leave from this thread!!!!!
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