Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Jamier on October 26, 2023, 07:57:14 AM
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Has anyone heard when the Fraser Tidal might open for coho? I know they have the 42 day closure, but not sure when that started. Thanks
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Once the fish have all passed through.
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Doubt they will open this year citing low chum returns maybe
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Once the fish have all passed through.
pretty much, I think last year we made a discussion and asked anyone who caught one to post it and nobody posted a single catch and reported one...
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It is opened for a lot of people. I always saw a few guys casting lure in my region.
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The closure window is available every year in the ifmp
https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/mplans/smon-sc-cs-ifmp-pgip-sm-eng.html
Mouth to Port Mann Bridge 19-Sep to 30-Oct
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See the same group fishing the Fraser on the Mission side above Hatzic Hole.. Slaughter House. Go for a walk along the dyke and take your rod. Water clarity is great right now in the Fraser for Coho fishing.. Don't even need a fishing license right now to fish the Fraser...
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See the same group fishing the Fraser on the Mission side above Hatzic Hole.. Slaughter House. Go for a walk along the dyke and take your rod. Water clarity is great right now in the Fraser for Coho fishing.. Don't even need a fishing license right now to fish the Fraser...
I wondered about the cars parked along side the hwy there at Hatzic lake and seeing nobody fishing when I drive by.
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This has been going on for some years now. All a person has to do is tell the FO they are fishing for trout or sturgeon. Just don't say salmon! Oh yeah and if a salmon is caught, just put it in the car trunk under the spare...ditto for wild fish.
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Thanks for all your feedback. I know this is a on going topic each year. It was a fishery that I always looked forward to as a kid and as an adult. I know with the changes over the last few years this has now been taken away, for the most part. I still always like a few outing in November when the last of the coho are traveling through. November can still produce a decent number of fish. Just looking for date when the bait ban is lifted and I can retain a hatchery coho if I catch one. I know Rod in the past is usually on this and has heard of a possible date of an opening.
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The closure window is available every year in the ifmp
https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/mplans/smon-sc-cs-ifmp-pgip-sm-eng.html
Mouth to Port Mann Bridge 19-Sep to 30-Oct
when does it open Port Mann to Mission or maybe what page of the iMFP are the iFS closure windows listed?
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Thanks for all your feedback. I know this is a on going topic each year. It was a fishery that I always looked forward to as a kid and as an adult. I know with the changes over the last few years this has now been taken away, for the most part. I still always like a few outing in November when the last of the coho are traveling through. November can still produce a decent number of fish. Just looking for date when the bait ban is lifted and I can retain a hatchery coho if I catch one. I know Rod in the past is usually on this and has heard of a possible date of an opening.
As I recall we caught jacks & coho to about the middle of November or slightly later, depending on the year.
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when does it open Port Mann to Mission or maybe what page of the iMFP are the iFS closure windows listed?
Found it myself: appendix 98, Pg 596
Port Mann to Mission: closed to Nov 1 opens Nov 2nd
Mission to Hope: closed to Nov 2 opens Nov 3rd
should be a couple weeks of reasonable opportunity as long as water conditions are good. I think last year it was murky for a couple of weeks.
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So if it opens Nov 2,2023. Can we assume that we should see a notice that it is open and that we can keep two hatchery coho? I know in the past it seems like DFO leaves it to the very last minute.
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Wait until it is posted, besides there are better systems for hatchery coho although its a great fishery. Don't be afraid to visit some smaller systems with a one hatchery a day limit.
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Saw many fishing boats in the river today. What is DFO thinking. The Chum numbers are so low. Mind numbing.
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes.html
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What is the reasoning behind this? Thought we are far from escapement numbers
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The DFO notice said escapement was not sufficient for a recreational opening. FNs get first priority.
As for numbers - I saw 1 boat with a net out while driving over the Alex Fraser Thursday. Most bands now just contract it out to one boat to get their allocation & distribute the catch from there.
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anyone can submit feedback to the IFMP when the draft is put out in the spring, alternative you can attended your local sfac meeting and submit feedback or present motions that can be put forward to DFO.
the Fraser chum harvest plan is on page 315 of the IFMP
https://waves-vagues.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/library-bibliotheque/41187404.pdf
Fraser River Terminal Run Size <500,000
Harvest Plan- Reduced directed harvest of Chum Salmon in FSC and test fisheries. Harvest rate not to exceed 10% of the terminal run size for Fraser Chum
Lower Fraser First Nations - Reduced allocation and limited fisheries (reduced hours and days/week fishing)
Commercial - Closed
Recreational - Mainstem Fraser River and tributaries closed to fishing for Chum Salmon
Fraser River Terminal Run Size 500,000 to 800,000
Harvest Plan - Directed harvest of Chum Salmon limited to FSC and test fisheries. Catch not to exceed 91,800 (82,800 First Nations* and 9,000 test fishing).
Lower Fraser First Nations - Normal
Commercial - Closed
Recreational - Mainstem Fraser River closed to fishing for Chum Salmon. Non-retention of Chum Salmon in tributaries
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Thanks for the info🙏
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The DFO notice said escapement was not sufficient for a recreational opening. FNs get first priority.
As for numbers - I saw 1 boat with a net out while driving over the Alex Fraser Thursday. Most bands now just contract it out to one boat to get their allocation & distribute the catch from there.
There were 5 boats above Golden Ears Bridge yesterday and 7 today between GE and above Derby Reach.
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There were 5 boats above Golden Ears Bridge yesterday and 7 today between GE and above Derby Reach.
Yup about 7 or 8 working Derby all weekend.
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pretty much, I think last year we made a discussion and asked anyone who caught one to post it and nobody posted a single catch and reported one...
Not that Youtube fishing videos are a reflection of reality (lol) but I remember stumping upon this video and noting to myself that I should give a go to the Tidal Fraser for Coho this season https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFvTtdeU5qY - so far I haven't convinced myself given how good is still in the rivers but that guy makes it look so easy haha
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Not that Youtube fishing videos are a reflection of reality (lol) but I remember stumping upon this video and noting to myself that I should give a go to the Tidal Fraser for Coho this season https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFvTtdeU5qY - so far I haven't convinced myself given how good is still in the rivers but that guy makes it look so easy haha
I stopped giving myself false confidence from videos of people catching. They could 20 years experience and be on their 11th outing of the season ;)
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I stopped giving myself false confidence from videos of people catching. They could 20 years experience and be on their 11th outing of the season ;)
Agreed! Still entertaining to watch though (and dream about lol)
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d
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These sub areas they are referring to are on the outside. Nothing open inside the river yet. Maybe we might see a notice today.
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https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/tidal-maree/a-s29-eng.html
Coho salmon (hatchery) 29-1 to 29-5,29-8 30cm Barbless Hook & Line 2/4/- Open until Dec 31 (See Restrictions)
Seems like it's open now. Anyone Catch anything?
This is not a Fraser River opening, please delete as it will create a lot of confusion here with many anglers. Fraser River subs are 29-11 through 29-16 maybe a 17 in there. No where near the subs mentioned above.
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Nov 3, 2023 No notices of any Tidal Fraser opening yet. What are the chances?
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Nov 3, 2023 No notices of any Tidal Fraser opening yet. What are the chances?
As much as there will be a sockeye opening.
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The Fraser (Region 2) is closed to trout fishing above Mission until Nov 15th. This was part of the Province's plan to protect Thompson Steelhead and also a message to the Feds as that was one of the recommendations of the panel that put together the submission for species at risk status. I think we've seen a closure that extended well into November before.
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I fired an email out to Barbara Mueller two days ago asking why there has not been a fishery notice announcing the opening. No response. The email has been read, because she sent an email out the following day to remind the rest of us that the SFAC meeting is next week. Obviously it's too late to expect a notice out today, and we got the weekend coming up. Even with a response on Monday the 6th, a notice won't be ready until Tuesday the 7th or Wednesday the 8th anyway, if there is to be an opening.
Done.
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Thanks Rod for trying. Not sure why it is so hard for them to figure this out each year. The tidal fishery has very little and i mean little impact on the Thompson Steelhead or Salmon population. I know, the intentions are good. I will hold onto hope that one day we will see a coho fishery in the lower fraser again.
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in 2021 there was no retention of Chum due to low returns and coho didn't open until Nov 15th on the tidal Fraser:
https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=252453&ID=all (https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=252453&ID=all)
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There was a big native chum fishery today, so like pinks my guess is they don’t want to allow recs on the lower Fraser till natives have fished more.
Roe is selling 10 bucks pound
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There was a big native chum fishery today, so like pinks my guess is they don’t want to allow recs on the lower Fraser till natives have fished more.
Roe is selling 10 bucks pound
could be but I bet the first thing managers ask is "What did we do last time?... OK let's do that again!"
oh and if you haven't checked, FNs didn't harvest many pinks, relative to the run size. The Musqueam band had some openings with an allowance for sales but that was it.
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could be but I bet the first thing managers ask is "What did we do last time?... OK let's do that again!"
oh and if you haven't checked, FNs didn't harvest many pinks, relative to the run size. The Musqueam band had some openings with an allowance for sales but that was it.
Wasn’t about pink openings it was about their chinook openings and not wanting recs being on the water at all fishing for pinks, this is what DFO told us Ralph, maybe come to the meetings next time
Is what it is now politics, optics, reconciliation name or what every u will
Bureaucratic incompetence on taking 100 people to get notices approved ect..
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I know it was about the chinook. Not a surprise. The proposed early pink opening was a red herring. The Fns have had a similar deal on the Skeena for a few years now. The FNs do get the gears from a few jerks. Boats have been vandalized and other stuff.
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I know it was about the chinook. Not a surprise. The proposed early pink opening was a red herring. The Fns have had a similar deal on the Skeena for a few years now. The FNs do get the gears from a few jerks. Boats have been vandalized and other stuff.
It was not about rec chinook openings it was about FN conducting gillnet chinook fishery's in the river and not wanting Rec fishermen on the water fishing for pinks at the same time.
yes we know your narrative the rec fishermen the great evil of our society lol
I just think its sad to see the cheap, assessable and spreads out angle pressured fishery's like the Fraser keep closing, or openings for recs forgot about.
Sure people with more money can go to the island to fish, or go out to the ocean of fly to the charlottes, or go on a guided trip to on a jet boat on the Skeena.
but the easy assessable stuff like pinks when threes 10 million of them, or a hatchery coho fishery after the steelhead window closure, just get forgotten about because there is not some big lobby behind them
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I fired an email out to Barbara Mueller two days ago asking why there has not been a fishery notice announcing the opening. No response. The email has been read, because she sent an email out the following day to remind the rest of us that the SFAC meeting is next week. Obviously it's too late to expect a notice out today, and we got the weekend coming up. Even with a response on Monday the 6th, a notice won't be ready until Tuesday the 7th or Wednesday the 8th anyway, if there is to be an opening.
Done.
you probably should of consulted with Ralph before you bothered
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you probably should of consulted with Ralph before you bothered
;D
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yes we know your narrative the rec fishermen the great evil of our society lol
Why is it that everyone except Ralph himself can see this?
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It was not about rec chinook openings it was about FN conducting gillnet chinook fishery's in the river and not wanting Rec fishermen on the water fishing for pinks at the same time.
For God's sake Wild Man I didn't even mention a rec chinook opening! It was a reply clearly in reference to your mentioning the FN chinook fishing. What are you smoking or drinking?
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;D
most of the stuff I mention is what anyone can read in the news.
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I've had a response to my enquiries this morning.
"In recent seasons the river would open for Rec. HM Coho retention when it opens for Chum retention. However, given current historically low in-season abundance status of Fraser Chum returns (Ref. FN1150: Fraser Chum Update), there are no plans this season to open Fraser mainstem for Chum. It also looks like Coho encounters at Albion TF continue to be very low in recent days, including this past weekend."
My response.
"That response frankly frustrates me quite a bit for a couple of reasons. In the past twenty years+ years, we have had years when hatchery coho salmon retention is open while chum salmon fishing is closed in the Lower Fraser River. Even right now, we have hatchery coho salmon retention available while chum salmon fishing is closed in terminal fisheries in the Lower Fraser tributaries, so I can’t see why this isn’t possible in the Lower Fraser. Does the department know what the incidental by-catch of chum salmon by rec anglers while targeting coho salmon in the Lower Fraser? From my own personal experiences, fishing in the tidal portion from 1995 to 2015, my total number of chum salmon encounters was in the single digit while targeting coho salmon. They simply don’t bite, like sockeye salmon.
Secondly, why does it matter what the Albion TF numbers are when determining the hatchery coho salmon rec opening in the Lower Fraser? Our group is looking for opportunities to recreate, and we do not have a harvest goal or number that we want to achieve. Opening this fishery up would only benefit the entire Region 2 community. For one, it provides opportunities for those who have no access to the terminal fisheries (senior anglers, family with little kids, those who cannot drive). Two, it spreads effort out and takes pressure off the few terminal fisheries that we have at the moment."
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I saw the comments below Rodney's facebook. looks someone has bar fishing since October. it isn't allowed to bar fishing with salmon fishing closed, is it?
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Fishing for salmon is closed, but fishing isn't closed. Unlike the non-tidal portion, fishing for non-salmon species including trout is still open in the tidal portion and bait can be used.
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I've had a response to my enquiries this morning.
"In recent seasons the river would open for Rec. HM Coho retention when it opens for Chum retention. However, given current historically low in-season abundance status of Fraser Chum returns (Ref. FN1150: Fraser Chum Update), there are no plans this season to open Fraser mainstem for Chum. It also looks like Coho encounters at Albion TF continue to be very low in recent days, including this past weekend."
My response.
"That response frankly frustrates me quite a bit for a couple of reasons. In the past twenty years+ years, we have had years when hatchery coho salmon retention is open while chum salmon fishing is closed in the Lower Fraser River. Even right now, we have hatchery coho salmon retention available while chum salmon fishing is closed in terminal fisheries in the Lower Fraser tributaries, so I can’t see why this isn’t possible in the Lower Fraser. Does the department know what the incidental by-catch of chum salmon by rec anglers while targeting coho salmon in the Lower Fraser? From my own personal experiences, fishing in the tidal portion from 1995 to 2015, my total number of chum salmon encounters was in the single digit while targeting coho salmon. They simply don’t bite, like sockeye salmon.
Secondly, why does it matter what the Albion TF numbers are when determining the hatchery coho salmon rec opening in the Lower Fraser? Our group is looking for opportunities to recreate, and we do not have a harvest goal or number that we want to achieve. Opening this fishery up would only benefit the entire Region 2 community. For one, it provides opportunities for those who have no access to the terminal fisheries (senior anglers, family with little kids, those who cannot drive). Two, it spreads effort out and takes pressure off the few terminal fisheries that we have at the moment."
Same BS excuses for pinks, but for pinks it was there not enough in the river yet, now for hatchery coho it's oh there no longer is enough left in the river.
Then it came out (in a meeting) that FN really just requested DFO to not open any rec fishing for salmon and the RDG was accommodating that request.
That's really how all the management has changed, has to go through 100 people and also get FN approval. If it wasn't for the hatchery rivers we would have nothing all the wild fish are allocated to FN on a priority bases. Now even hatchery coho, you may intercept a chum and if you do that then will have to give first nations more chum fisheries, and because abundance is low were trying to limit FSC chum fishery's, so there for people fishing for hatchery coho in the lower fraser cant fish.
everyone was so proud when pinks were not opening i'm doing my part, im part of the solution fish first, i don't care if it does not open it's not my OX that's being ghored
BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA
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And yet DFO is keeping the Stave open with tons of anglers twitching jigs and catching lots of chums which are being mishandled by getting dragged up on shore before being released. Lots of poaching going on there as well with chum being bonked and kept as well the females slit open and the roe removed. DFO you are incompetent and will mismanage our salmon fisheries into extinction just like you did with the East Coast cod fishery.
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Does DFO really believe the garbage they're spewing ?
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My response.
... Does the department know what the incidental by-catch of chum salmon by rec anglers while targeting coho salmon in the Lower Fraser? From my own personal experiences, fishing in the tidal portion from 1995 to 2015, my total number of chum salmon encounters was in the single digit while targeting coho salmon. They simply don’t bite, like sockeye salmon.
Secondly, why does it matter what the Albion TF numbers are when determining the hatchery coho salmon rec opening in the Lower Fraser?
Oh they bit alright. Once i deliberately targeted chum in the North arm a couple miles upstream of the Knight Street bridge. The return was supposed to be very large so i timed my trip for the flood and turn to fish the dropping ebb. lots of chum were rolling when i got there but chucking an orange hued Croc spoon didn't give me any luck. then they started swirling near shore against a rip rap bank so I targeted those. I landed 3 chum in 20 minutes and it was over. They were as booty as the ones 60 miles upriver. I have seen the odd one caught on bait while bar fishing.
However I had it from a reliable source that a few anglers used to catch easy limits back in the 90s when the ebb was running fast after a high flood tide using a 4.5 inch Tomic plug like this:
(https://i.imgur.com/UcMcL4p.jpg)
I was told they fished them in the current on a bar rig at Nelson Road and some other Richmond Bars. I still have a couple of those but never gave them a try.
Anyone check the Albion test fishery coho catch? About 12 fish since Oct 1 mostly in the 1st week.
Oh, as a blast from the past, here is a photo of my wife's Grandfather bar fishing the Fraser (guess the bar) that was featured in The Province newspaper in 1973 with a caption that he was "trying to catch a fish before a nasty cold! Notice how crowded the bar is.
(https://i.imgur.com/52Aia1d.jpg)
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Cool photo. My Dad made the cover of the Surrey Leader back in the day. “Fishing the Fraser for 50 years” was the caption. Him and a bunch of colourful characters regularly fished Brownsville bar back in the day. Thanks for sharing the photo. Cheers.
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Those were the good old days.
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I've had a response to my enquiries this morning.
Great response, Rodney. You’ve earned the right to be heard by DFO. Thanks for fighting the good fight on behalf of rec anglers.
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know it was about the chinook. Not a surprise. The proposed early pink opening was a red herring. The Fns have had a similar deal on the Skeena for a few years now. The FNs do get the gears from a few jerks. Boats have been vandalized and other stuff.
It was not about rec chinook openings it was about FN conducting gillnet chinook fishery's in the river and not wanting Rec fishermen on the water fishing for pinks at the same time.
yes we know your narrative the rec fishermen the great evil of our society lol
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I don't see what the problem you have with this is? No where does it state or even imply " your narrative the rec fishermen the great evil of our society lol". That's very close to libel. Quite the opposite! it refers to a few "jerks". Also never referred to any angler as "a bank maggot" . Pointing out that the fall bar fishery was closed until Nov 15th is just a fact as is the fact FNs on the Skeena have gotten a blanket salmon angling closure during their major harvest openings.
Problem is a few people here can't deal with these bad turns without getting angry, irrationally angry. Nobody asks DFO why they didn't issue a notice that the bar fishery would remain closed because the chum return was low. No one also bothers ask if that possible closure isn't listed in the IMP which says the IFS closure window lifts on Nov 1 below Port Mann and Nov 2nd below Mission. At a minimum DFO can do a better job of communicating
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I don't get it, in the states they have dozens of quality steelhead and salmon fisheries for the public. While up here in BC we really only have 8 . I think the DFO need to actually create opportunity instead of taking it away. If not BC will eventually become like the UK with a pay to fish system for Salmon and steelhead. Imagine paying 2000 dollars a day to fish for salmon during the peak run!
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there are only 8 quality salmon or steelhead fisheries in BC? What are they?
There are probably well over 8 in the Skeena watershed alone.
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Sorry let me clarify I meant fisheries near population centers, not everyone has the money to drive or fly to the Skeena. For some people, the only option to fish for salmon is on the Fraser. Also, the Skeena is having low returns of steelhead and salmon which also limits angler opportunity and even if it is open is it even ethical to target them? If you want to save wild populations of fish you need to create other opportunities, look at our lake fisheries for example. Plenty of nice harvest fisheries to create quality opportunities combined with trophy fisheries. In the lower mainland, we could easily stock more fisheries with hatchery, chinook, coho, and pink salmon.
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. In the lower mainland, we could easily stock more fisheries with hatchery, chinook, coho, and pink salmon.
any specific examples?
In general Fisheries biology has turned away from hatchery augmentation to preservation of wild fisheries, too many drawbacks.However management regimes may not be adhering to the later goal for a variety of reasons. Hatchery supplementation is not cheap either. Our measly license fees gets us access to quite a cornucopia and a cheap source of protein when the returns are good. Back in the mid 70s a hatchery steelhead cost about $7 for a fish that returned to it's natal river. Not factoring in the decline productivity (from around 10% to 2% on average ) that would optimistically be about $40 to $50 today. Less for coastal springs or chums which don't have to be held and fed for a year.
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Kanaka creek, Coquitlam river and the Little Campbell come to mind for hatchery salmon, specifically more springs, coho and chum. Although already stocked it would make sense to put more fish into a river that is close to a major population center. On the steelhead side of things Kanaka Creek, Nicomen Slough, Harrison River, Squamish, and the once-great Chehalis could use some fish. We could use Vedder River fish as broodstock for the salmon fisheries and some of the steelhead fisheries (hatchery steelhead for broodstock, no usage of wild fish). Specifically on the Kanaka, Nicomen, Little Campbell, and Coquitlam. However, for the Harrison, Chehalis, and Squamish, it would be better to start a broodstock program and then slowly shift it to only taking hatchery fish.
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Love the old photo of the bar fisher.
That was sure some stove he had.
Cant help but notice the Dam Quick reel.
I used to ogle my neighbours when he came home from bar fishing.
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All the streams you mention are or were stocked with salmon and steelhead. In the past plus others like Cogburn and Big silver on the east side of Harrison Lake and Weaver Creek. Most didn't produce all that many fish neither were they fished much. Cogburn and Big Silver are a long way to go particularly in late fall and winter. Many are rather short & don't offer a whole lot of space for more anglers. Norrish has it's own Federal facility and steelhead were stocked there in the 90s. It never produced much of a return. It also has a very short section of fishable water. Then there is a canyon and impassable waterfalls.
Raising and Transporting the fish is expensive. The Little Cambell has a community hatchery (https://www.sfgc.info/hatchery), the returns are not shabby as does the Nicomekl, Serpentine (Tynehead) , Kanaka Creek, South Alouette River (Allco) so there are quite a number and you can find how many fish are stocked by those hatcheries. Stocking is all controlled by DFO and/or FFSBC & F&H BC. Coho, steelhead and chinook are tightly controlled and mostly raised in Federal or Provincial hatcheries until close to release and moved to the community site. When I was involved in what is now Allco, a lot more fish were raised and released on site including cutthroat & coho. Much of the reduction was due to huge decline in returns (ie -500%). In a lot of years hatchery returns are about 1 5th of what they were in the first 10 years or so of wide scale hatchery production. That's one of the factors that have pushed managing biologists to rely more on wild fish production.
It all sounds nice, we'll dump a lot fish into a number of streams and live in angling nirvana but who is going to pay for it? Don't say you license fees as that's not even close.
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Don't say you license fees as that's not even close.
How do you know? I cannot locate any stats on revenue generated by license sales vs costs of hatcheries.
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Kanaka creek, Coquitlam river and the Little Campbell come to mind for hatchery salmon, specifically more springs, coho and chum. Although already stocked it would make sense to put more fish into a river that is close to a major population center. On the steelhead side of things Kanaka Creek, Nicomen Slough, Harrison River, Squamish, and the once-great Chehalis could use some fish. We could use Vedder River fish as broodstock for the salmon fisheries and some of the steelhead fisheries (hatchery steelhead for broodstock, no usage of wild fish). Specifically on the Kanaka, Nicomen, Little Campbell, and Coquitlam. However, for the Harrison, Chehalis, and Squamish, it would be better to start a broodstock program and then slowly shift it to only taking hatchery fish.
Using hatchery fish as broodstock is problematic. The genetics get weaker and weaker.
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Using hatchery fish as broodstock is problematic. The genetics get weaker and weaker.
If lets say hatchery Coho are taken from the Chilliwack river, as brood for another river and repeated each year with the new hatchery fish taken from the previous wild fish taken from the vedder would that not avoid that problem.
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Using brood stock from one system, to augment stocks in another, for the purposes of enhancing recreational fishing is a non-starter as it reduces biodiversity.
IIRC, it's one of the reasons that the hatchery cutthroat program was curtailed in the Fraser Valley as broodstock from a couple of systems was being used to augment many other smaller systems.
Additionally, there was Lower Mainland hatchery that was having trouble getting sufficient wild steelhead broodstock and applied to the Province for permission to use broodstock from Vancouver Island. That was not approved.
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Nobody is complaining about the red springs on the Vedder or on the Chehalis...
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Its like it's the 1980's all over again.................. its all been done before guys. lots of information on the web why things did or didn't work well back when the answer was to hammer the systems with hatchery raised fish.
What we need is another EXPO year so we get 86 returns ;)
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https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/salmon-saumon/wsp-pss/policy-politique-eng.html#intro
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Outdoor Canada: To help recover B.C.’s Pacific salmon, we need to rethink hatcheries
https://www.outdoorcanada.ca/opinion-to-help-recover-b-c-s-pacific-salmon-we-need-to-rethink-hatcheries/
"...we need more investment in innovative ideas, such as the Okanagan Nation Alliance’s “hatchery in a box.” A shipping container converted into a small-scale, portable hatchery, it’s designed to boost a salmon run for one or two generations before it’s moved to another stream. First Nations across the province are now using the concept to recover culturally important salmon runs, although its biggest contribution may be in changing mindsets.
Namely, a hatchery in a box costs $100,000 to set up and thousands to run each year, while a traditional hatchery costs millions to build and millions more to run. “When you build a major facility, you’re invested in it,” says Howie Wright, the fisheries program manager for the Okanagan Nation Alliance. “You want to keep running it.” And science has shown that’s not in the best interest of salmon—or anglers."
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Love the old photo of the bar fisher.
That was sure some stove he had.
Cant help but notice the Dam Quick reel.
I used to ogle my neighbours when he came home from bar fishing.
I had one back in the day and wore it out. Recently I lucked out and bought another barely used one on FB Marketplace for 20 bucks!
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I've had a response to my enquiries this morning.
"In recent seasons the river would open for Rec. HM Coho retention when it opens for Chum retention. However, given current historically low in-season abundance status of Fraser Chum returns (Ref. FN1150: Fraser Chum Update), there are no plans this season to open Fraser mainstem for Chum. It also looks like Coho encounters at Albion TF continue to be very low in recent days, including this past weekend."
They have done creel census studies on the Fraser Bar fishery in the past - i know I was quizzed a couple times and even had my catch examined so they should have some idea how many chums get caught by sports anglers if it was open.
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The Little Cambell has a community hatchery (https://www.sfgc.info/hatchery), the returns are not shabby as does the Nicomekl, Serpentine (Tynehead) , Kanaka Creek, South Alouette River (Allco) so there are quite a number and you can find how many fish are stocked by those hatcheries.
The Little Campbell typically releases up to 45, 000 hatchery Chinook and close to 20, 000 Coho .
We have decent returns and the wild fish outnumber the hatchery returns 4 to 1
We also did a steelhead release last year of approx. 5,000 steelhead, which were taken from wild broodstock from the river and raised by the Semi hatchery in the outdoor tanks after being fertilized and raised to smolt size by the FFSC in Abbotsford .
Coho, steelhead and chinook are tightly controlled and mostly raised in Federal or Provincial hatcheries until close to release and moved to the community site.
The little Campbell raises its own coho and chinook from wild broodstock under the direction of DFO . Being a community hatchery its self sustaining and does take some grant money but mostly relies on volunteers and donations for its budget every year
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Ralph that picture of your wife’s grandfather sure looks like a Richmond bar to me but I can’t pinpoint which one ?
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it's Duncan, east of Fort Langley at the end of River Road.
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Do chum get caught with any regularity in the lower Fraser rec fishery or is it just an odd fluke ? I looked for creel census studies for the lower Fraser. There was an extensive one conducted from 1985 to 1988 plus another in the early 90s.
I found and skimmed the 80s study and it reports that hundreds of chum were reported caught each year , mostly in the section of river above the Pitt River confluence. Most were released. One study zone spanned the area from the confluence with the Pitt to the confluence with the Sumas. At the time chum caught in non-tidal waters could not be retained which suggests most were caught above Mission. Most caught below the Pitt were retained.
Link:https://waves-vagues.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/library-bibliotheque/141038.pdf (https://waves-vagues.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/library-bibliotheque/141038.pdf)
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anecdotally, since the mid 90s in the area above and below the Pitt River confluence, while fishing in a group setting, Ive seen fewer than say 6 chum per season caught.
On spoons, colorado blades, drifted jigs twitched jigs etc in open water not narrow runs.
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it's Duncan, east of Fort Langley at the end of River Road.
Right where the "old timers" would give me tips on how to fish.
I was 16 with no fishing experience or mentors but wanted to get into it. I would go down and set up beside the few guys that would be there. Fond memories drowning worms and roe with good people. If not for bar fishing i am not sure if i would have caught the bug I have today for fishing.
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Its criminal that they have wiped out that fishery STS.
Bar fishing was a great time for many including myself.
Duncan and Poplar Bars were my favorite on the lower river.
Is a dam shame what they have done with these closures .
To say it is done to protect fish and then see all the nets out there is disgusting and frustrating.
Cant say i ever seen a Chum caught while Bar fishing the lower river.
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Fraser is finally Open. Crazy, I will still give it a go tomorrow and will post my results. Not expecting much. Good tide in the morning for all those who care.
Cheers
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I like how it says no fishing for wild coho in the letter. Anybody know which lures only catch hatchery fish? Or which arm of the fraser only has hatchery coho? ;D
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I like how it says no fishing for wild coho in the letter. Anybody know which lures only catch hatchery fish? Or which arm of the fraser only has hatchery coho? ;D
I saw that too. Maybe Rod can do a video on how to catch one not the other.
In the mean time just remember to tell the FO you are fishing for hatchery coho
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The odds of catching a sockeye or pink are about the same as winning the Lotto.
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So, I wonder if that was a copy and paste error to FN 1211?
FN1212 for the non tidal Fraser says the same thing: no fishing for wild coho.
In the non tidal Fraser, the Harrison is the most upstream watershed with clipped coho. Apart from strays, generally any coho that one would encounter upstream of the Harrison to Hope would be wild.
Perhaps the FN is suggesting that you not fish for coho above the Harrison?
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So, this morning I headed down to Glen Valley to do some Bar Fishing with a friend. Arrived at 7 am and got the lines in the water. Got a nice little fire going to warm the hands, cup of coffee and I was ready. First fish on for my friend line was a small Sturgeon. Gently released back into the wild. Okay, at least its something. Not to much after that for a couple of hours. Of course as I was standing over talking with my friend my rod started jumping around, I raced over to it and set the hook figuring this fish was for sure on the end of my line. Nope not there. Wow cant believe I missed that one. Yep that was the bite I was waiting for and that was it. Stayed till 1:30. Just a few little taps after that. Was worth the try. Can't still believe they waited till Nov 15 to open. No sign of any fish on the surface. Time to do some duck hunting.
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It is middle November, I checked, it is open for coho. But, any hatchery coho?
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I think in it's clumsy way it's trying to reinforce that wild coho cannot be retained and must be released immediately. The notice for tidal waters of the Fraser (1211) says the same thing. Either that or they were trying to get a laugh!
So, I wonder if that was a copy and paste error to FN 1211?
FN1212 for the non tidal Fraser says the same thing: no fishing for wild coho.
In the non tidal Fraser, the Harrison is the most upstream watershed with clipped coho. Apart from strays, generally any coho that one would encounter upstream of the Harrison to Hope would be wild.
Perhaps the FN is suggesting that you not fish for coho above the Harrison?
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I think they get there laugh when they give us an opening when everything has allready gone through the system.
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...but you're not bitter! ;D
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As Rodney mentioned in his letter to DFO, bar fishing for coho is a fishery many older fishermen can enjoy without driving far which many simply can't. These seniors used to anticipate such fishery as fall is approaching. They used to fish in warmer days of September and October. But such fishery is cruelly taken away from these senior fishermen. Opening so late in November is a joke and a mockery to the seniors. It is inhumane to ask these older folks to fish long hours in such cold temperature, especially the chance of hooking a hatchery keeper is next to zero. Their frail old bodies can't risk catching cold or pneumonia in such cold. DFO may as well not open this near hopeless fishery.