Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rodney on August 16, 2019, 08:02:39 PM
-
FYI. C&P from my FB page.
As many of you already know, aside from the website and videos, I invest fair amount of my time on attending meetings that may concern the angling community in the Lower Fraser. Seeking solutions to sustainable fishing practices and resolutions to conflicts between user groups have always been an interest of mine. Primarily, as a business that depends on the well being of the natural resources, I feel obligated to invest on this as a way to give back. Secondly, I do it so my kids will hopefully have the same opportunities as I have had.
In the Lower Fraser River, the interests between recreational fisheries and First Nations' FSC fisheries often overlap. The issues can be complex and you really have to spend a good chunk of time to understand and appreciate the concerns being brought forward by both sides. My recent projects with Dennis at Respect for Fish and Marilyn at Murphy Sportfishing have given me a better understanding and ideas on how to approach these issues.
Today I was invited by Sts'ailes, or Chehalis First Nations, to a meeting, discussing recent conflicts on the Chehalis River. Fishing opportunities have been reduced drastically for recreational fishermen this year. With only two river salmon fisheries remaining in the Fraser Valley during the summer months (Chilliwack and Chehalis River), we are now seeing a spike of angling pressure on these systems when the fisheries peak. For the Chehalis River, it is a relatively smaller system in comparison to the Chilliwack/Vedder River so the infrastructures and resources are not necessarily ready for the high demand.
Here are several issues that have developed this summer:
1) Permitted parking areas are limited so anglers have chosen to ignore the no parking signs and private properties.
2) Trespassing on Chehalis First Nations' land has become a common occurrence.
3) Jet boating in the lower river has become a safety concern for families who are swimming in the area. Furthermore, anglers have neglected them by proceeding to fish in the same waters, forcing families to leave or creating conflicts between both groups.
Regarding parking and trespassing, I always like to believe that 99% of the people want and choose to follow the rules. There needs to be better signages to inform anglers where public parking and accesses are. This is something that both groups will continue to work on as we go into the fall river salmon season. Chief Ralph Leon Jr. and I had a lengthy and constructive conversation on these issues. He wants anglers to come and enjoy what the river offers, but at the same time he has legitimate concerns for his people's safety when trespassing occurs. I think all of us would have the same concerns if it occurs in our own backyards.
The bottom line really comes down to respect and sharing. If you are planning to fish the area, please be mindful of these concerns. A good day at the river is when everyone enjoys what the river offers in a safe manner.
We also discussed what potential impacts this spike of fishing pressure from both groups in terminal fisheries due to the closures in the Fraser River has on the stocks. This will require more discussions and hopefully lead to long term solutions.
Overall, I was very thankful to be a part of the dialogue, which I believe is the only approach to navigate through the challenges we have in the Lower Mainland fisheries right now. Please share these thoughts with others.
-
The Trespass To Property Act makes it an offence, without lawful authority, to enter onto posted or enclosed lands or other premises without the consent of the owner or another occupier.
contravening the Act could be fined up to $2,000.
Sounds like an issue for the RCMP
-
Yep. Both RCMP and DFO C&P were present at today's meeting. You have to give credits to Chehalis First Nations for not wanting to go with that approach immediately, but they've approached us instead so we can develop solutions together and make this fishery an enjoyable experience for everyone.
-
Ralph is a good and I applaud him for his efforts. If more
Chiefs were like him the relationships between recreational fishermen and First Nations would be better.
Before the river rerouted it was
A very busy place to fish but there was lots of fishable water on the campground side. The last time I was there I seen people fishing on the other side.
To be honest I do not no where the reserve land is I just park in the day use area by the care taker and walk down the fishing trail. The fishing trail that Ralph was part of creating.
I have not fish there in the summer so I don’t no how busy it has gotten but I find it hard to believe that it’s busier then it was back on the day when there was lots of fish in the system.
I think a map with illustration showing where it’s
Private land and no trespassing would really help
-
Ralph is a good and I applaud him for his efforts. If more
Chiefs were like him the relationships between recreational fishermen and First Nations would be better.
Before the river rerouted it was
A very busy place to fish but there was lots of fishable water on the campground side. The last time I was there I seen people fishing on the other side.
To be honest I do not no where the reserve land is I just park in the day use area by the care taker and walk down the fishing trail. The fishing trail that Ralph was part of creating.
I have not fish there in the summer so I don’t no how busy it has gotten but I find it hard to believe that it’s busier then it was back on the day when there was lots of fish in the system.
I think a map with illustration showing where it’s
Private land and no trespassing would really help
Google maps has an integrated FN reserve map option now. Itll detail all boundries. Nice and simple.
-
FYI. C&P from my FB page.
As many of you already know, aside from the website and videos, I invest fair amount of my time on attending meetings that may concern the angling community in the Lower Fraser. Seeking solutions to sustainable fishing practices and resolutions to conflicts between user groups have always been an interest of mine. Primarily, as a business that depends on the well being of the natural resources, I feel obligated to invest on this as a way to give back. Secondly, I do it so my kids will hopefully have the same opportunities as I have had.
In the Lower Fraser River, the interests between recreational fisheries and First Nations' FSC fisheries often overlap. The issues can be complex and you really have to spend a good chunk of time to understand and appreciate the concerns being brought forward by both sides. My recent projects with Dennis at Respect for Fish and Marilyn at Murphy Sportfishing have given me a better understanding and ideas on how to approach these issues.
Today I was invited by Sts'ailes, or Chehalis First Nations, to a meeting, discussing recent conflicts on the Chehalis River. Fishing opportunities have been reduced drastically for recreational fishermen this year. With only two river salmon fisheries remaining in the Fraser Valley during the summer months (Chilliwack and Chehalis River), we are now seeing a spike of angling pressure on these systems when the fisheries peak. For the Chehalis River, it is a relatively smaller system in comparison to the Chilliwack/Vedder River so the infrastructures and resources are not necessarily ready for the high demand.
Here are several issues that have developed this summer:
1) Permitted parking areas are limited so anglers have chosen to ignore the no parking signs and private properties.
2) Trespassing on Chehalis First Nations' land has become a common occurrence.
3) Jet boating in the lower river has become a safety concern for families who are swimming in the area. Furthermore, anglers have neglected them by proceeding to fish in the same waters, forcing families to leave or creating conflicts between both groups.
Regarding parking and trespassing, I always like to believe that 99% of the people want and choose to follow the rules. There needs to be better signages to inform anglers where public parking and accesses are. This is something that both groups will continue to work on as we go into the fall river salmon season. Chief Ralph Leon Jr. and I had a lengthy and constructive conversation on these issues. He wants anglers to come and enjoy what the river offers, but at the same time he has legitimate concerns for his people's safety when trespassing occurs. I think all of us would have the same concerns if it occurs in our own backyards.
The bottom line really comes down to respect and sharing. If you are planning to fish the area, please be mindful of these concerns. A good day at the river is when everyone enjoys what the river offers in a safe manner.
We also discussed what potential impacts this spike of fishing pressure from both groups in terminal fisheries due to the closures in the Fraser River has on the stocks. This will require more discussions and hopefully lead to long term solutions.
Overall, I was very thankful to be a part of the dialogue, which I believe is the only approach to navigate through the challenges we have in the Lower Mainland fisheries right now. Please share these thoughts with others.
Just imagine if there was no social media bragging and certain tackle shop employees could keep quiet once and awhile... tough to imagine this nowadays with a lot of new comers looking for that hero status.. What ever happened to hiding your fish?? http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif
A sad state for a river that not too long ago was *relatively quiet and productive in many areas. It's been sad to watch its decline.
I've fished it for many years and never had any issues on that side. However, I fully support them not wanting anyone going down there, especially nowadays. We as fisherman need to do better.
-
Google maps has an integrated FN reserve map option now. Itll detail all boundries. Nice and simple.
I don't see an easy way to view it, but I did notice that when you view the river in "map" view, the map shows the old channel, and the river never touches the reserve boundary, but when you switch to "satellite" view, you can see the new channel that goes right through the reserve. It's curious because if the reserve boundary had been defined on that side as following the river, the change in the river course would have substantially shrunk their territory, but because the river never passed through it before, the river becomes a part of their territory.
-
What are the recent conflicts ? What's happened here ?
-
What are the recent conflicts ? What's happened here ?
I listed them out in my original post already.
-
I listed them out in my original post already.
Sorry I just didnt really think that morons took jet boats into the Chehalis. That just seems outrageous to me I overlooked it. At first I assumed you were talking about the Harrison area near the Chehalis.
-
Yep. I think we can all agree that jet boating in narrow pieces of water where swimmers are present is a safety concern.
-
Yep. I think we can all agree that jet boating in narrow pieces of water where swimmers are present is a safety concern.
Reminds me of the jet boats coming up the Vedder in the summer. Do we know if the reported jet boats are fishers or just crazy recreational boaters like we saw on the Vedder?
Also, not to defend the jet boaters, but one reason people fish from them is to access rivers when there is no legal shore access . . .
-
Just imagine if there was no social media bragging and certain tackle shop employees could keep quiet once and awhile... tough to imagine this nowadays with a lot of new comers looking for that hero status.. What ever happened to hiding your fish?? http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif
A sad state for a river that not too long ago was *relatively quiet and productive in many areas. It's been sad to watch its decline.
I've fished it for many years and never had any issues on that side. However, I fully support them not wanting anyone going down there, especially nowadays. We as fisherman need to do better.
*cough* fred's *cough*
-
Reminds me of the jet boats coming up the Vedder in the summer. Do we know if the reported jet boats are fishers or just crazy recreational boaters like we saw on the Vedder?
Also, not to defend the jet boaters, but one reason people fish from them is to access rivers when there is no legal shore access . . .
Some of them dont even fish. I can recall last Chum season on the Harrison. We saw three mini jets fly thru the Harrison estuary. ZERO regard for spawning Chum AND rec anglers in the main stem. They came inches from shore. I even saw one guy hop an island with his mini jet.
-
Is it acceptable to the band to park on other side if bridge and walk down to lower river using the dyke? Ive seen other cars parked in the lot just off the road but i don't do that. Just wondering. Thanks
-
That's the side where they do not want people to walk through. The healing house is where their children and elders utilize for various activities, and anyone who works there has to go through criminal background checks etc so their concerns have mainly on having unauthorized individuals walking through the property which includes the dyke.
Re: Jet boat. Most have been people heading up to fish. There have been situations that involved the the jet boat pulling up where families are swimming in the area, and proceeding to fish which lead to kids throwing rocks in the water and you can kind of figure out what followed after that.
-
Just wondering if the parking lot across the bridge and to the left will be open. This is the area that has some camping in the back and had an outhouse at the parking lot which comes in handy. This parking area has been has been closed with a gate for a while. The parking lot helps with parking off the road and also with fishing in the area and up river (e.g. canyon etc.).
-
Just wondering if the parking lot across the bridge and to the left will be open. This is the area that has some camping in the back and had an outhouse at the parking lot which comes in handy. This parking area has been has been closed with a gate for a while. The parking lot helps with parking off the road and also with fishing in the area and up river (e.g. canyon etc.).
X2
-
Just wondering if the parking lot across the bridge and to the left will be open. This is the area that has some camping in the back and had an outhouse at the parking lot which comes in handy. This parking area has been has been closed with a gate for a while. The parking lot helps with parking off the road and also with fishing in the area and up river (e.g. canyon etc.).
It used to be open years ago. I notice its been closed all the time now. LAST steelhead season I had a FN man tell me I couldn't park on the side of the road like I had for years. Apparently it wasnt allowed. There are no parking signs there now as well. I never parked in front of the gate or anything. Always between the bridge and the gate.
-
With a good amount of water now being on the reserve side is there not some kind of opportunity for first nations to take advantage of sports fishmern. Like a paid parking area or something?? was there interest anything like that?
-
With a good amount of water now being on the reserve side is there not some kind of opportunity for first nations to take advantage of sports fishmern. Like a paid parking area or something?? was there interest anything like that?
No kidding. I'd pay for parking there. As long as a net isnt blocking the river mouth again.
-
I have a lot of respect for your involvement in community fisheries issues, Rod. Thank you.
Several years ago I called a FN band office to get permission to fish their lands. Her initial response was “ we aren’t giving out permission to fish our lands”. Instead of getting pissy, and figuring I could catch more flies with honey than vinegar, I told her that I wanted to be respectful of their lands by asking for permission and that I pick up litter when I am there. We proceeded to have a conversation about anglers that left garbage behind and a cougar that was recently spotted along the river bottom.
After a chat she said “ok, don’t tell anyone I said this, but you can fish there”
A little respect, courtesy and kindness can go a long ways.
-
I have a lot of respect for your involvement in community fisheries issues, Rod. Thank you.
Several years ago I called a FN band office to get permission to fish their lands. Her initial response was “ we aren’t giving out permission to fish our lands”. Instead of getting pissy, and figuring I could catch more flies with honey than vinegar, I told her that I wanted to be respectful of their lands by asking for permission and that I pick up litter when I am there. We proceeded to have a conversation about anglers that left garbage behind and a cougar that was recently spotted along the river bottom.
After a chat she said “ok, don’t tell anyone I said this, but you can fish there”
A little respect, courtesy and kindness can go a long ways.
Thanks. respect definitely goes a long way.
Just wondering if the parking lot across the bridge and to the left will be open. This is the area that has some camping in the back and had an outhouse at the parking lot which comes in handy. This parking area has been has been closed with a gate for a while. The parking lot helps with parking off the road and also with fishing in the area and up river (e.g. canyon etc.).
For some reason we never got around to figuring out why that lot is closed. There'll be a follow-up meeting in September and I hope to have that sorted out before the fall season starts.
I'm sure everyone who visited the area wants to do the right thing so it's a positive experience for all. The meeting wasn't just about how to stop people from parking at certain locations, but there were some discussions on exploring ways to make parking more accessible for anglers.
-
The FN lands overlay for Google maps is available as a kmz file from the following page:
https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/data-canada-lands-surveys/11092#CLGoogleEarth
Scroll down to Canada Lands Digital Cadastral Data.
This will load all FN lands in Canada into Google maps and you may be surprised to find you have already fished on FN lands without knowing it, such as on either side of the new Chehalis channel, north side of the Cap Estuary, north side of the Vedder above the Vedder Bridge crossing (not just the obvious Soowahlie lands on the south side), etc, etc.
If you want to see the approximate boundary, its shown here:
https://www.fraserbasin.bc.ca/_Library/Water_Flood_Strategy/Fraser_River_Scenarios_Subregional_Mapset_HR_Region_6.pdf
-
If you want to see the approximate boundary, its shown here:
https://www.fraserbasin.bc.ca/_Library/Water_Flood_Strategy/Fraser_River_Scenarios_Subregional_Mapset_HR_Region_6.pdf
Rough overlay of that PDF with google maps:
(https://i.imgur.com/x8Yrz4y.jpg)
The river doesn't flow by the hatchery anymore as it once did years ago. It has shifted quite a bit to the east and the main flow of the lower section probably goes through FN now?
I have not been down there for a few years, so not sure where the river flows nowadays, but if you walk down the east side, you may not have to go that far to reach the boundary.
-
Rough overlay of that PDF with google maps:
(https://i.imgur.com/x8Yrz4y.jpg)
The river doesn't flow by the hatchery anymore as it once did years ago. It has shifted quite a bit to the east and the main flow of the lower section probably goes through FN now?
I have not been down there for a few years, so not sure where the river flows nowadays, but if you walk down the east side, you may not have to go that far to reach the boundary.
If you reached the logjam, ( on the east AND west side ) you're already in reserve territory. The hole where the hatchery channel flows into is technically not within FN boundaries. According to the data provided to Google. A good number of decent lower river pools are in FN reserve lands.
-
No point fishing there anymore. Nets out no fish come thru on prime time prime water conditions. Only one thing made sense. Nets.
-
What Chehalis has No Parking signs, private reserve land? What? Who knew ::)
Chehalis is a cupcakes show