Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: silverslab on September 24, 2009, 04:47:12 PM
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So I have been getting some roe ready for this coming coho season and have done 2 batches now both with different cures (pro cure, pautzke fire cure) neither of wish transfered much in the way of color to the roe. They both say fluorescent pink on them but in both cases the roe came out much closer to its natural color, you can see some pink showing on the skien but thats all really. The roe cured up nice in terms of texxture and evrything just not as bright as i would like it. ??? ???
Just wondering what others are using or if anyone has any suggestions for the next round on how to get it to be a brighter color?
Thanks
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How did you cure it? brine? dry? If the instructions were followed properly it should have turned out coloured.
The only time I find the eggs don't absorb the colouring is if you use a method which involves boiling the brine.
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how long were they in the cure ??
I normally let my roe sit in procure for abuot 8hrs before i rinse and let dry. sometimes (with spring roe especially) i will let it sit almost an entire day.
I havent used the Pautzke's BorX O Fire yet but my buddy really likes it. one thing he did tell me about that stuff is to not use to much or it dries out the roe.
I did some pink roe last year that didnt colour much either, i think that the pinks just arent a very good colour because they are lighter then the actual egg colour. I use natural, orange and double red.
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I cut it into useable chunks and put it in a bucket (about 2 lbs worth) I then sprinkled on about 4 - 5 tsblespoons of cure and rolled it around to make sure it gets in evrywhere. I then let it sit in its own juices for about 4 hours (container says 1-2). I let it drain for about another 2 hrs and then dried it slowly for about a half a day. Dont get me wrong the roe did turn color it just didn't turn bright pink like it has for me in the past, the chum roe was definatley nicer colored than the spring
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Of the 3 methods (dry, brine, jar) which do you guys prefer? I have never tried the brine method, but have tried dry and the jar. I found the jar method gave me great looking roe with nice color but just wouldn't stay on the hook or hold together well even after a full day of drying so i pretty much stick with the dry method.
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if you read the back of a bottle of pro cure it describes the 3 methods, and adding more cure i thought would "burn" the roe or remove to much of the juice leaving half full droopy eggs
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i put in 3 tbl spoons for every 2 skeins of roe. and let it sit there until the roe juices, and then absorbs the juices back in. Then let it dry on paper towel for about 2 hours. Dust in borax, and then package in even more borax and freeze.
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Hey Young gun, that is almost the exact same process I go through only 2 tbls to 1 skein, how long do you leave it soak in the juices before they are reabsorbed?
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I dump all my skeins and procure into a GLASS jar and shake it gently to mix it all up(1tablespoon to 1 skein depending on skein size) and then i let it sit for up to a day but usually 8-12 hrs is the norm. I then take it out rinse with water in a strainer (cold water) until the colour running off runs clear, I then cut into chunks and let sit on drying racks for up to 8hrs or to firmness i want. i have had peices of roe last on the hook until the colour starts to fade out :o which is probably a good 10mins.
when im adding the procure and skeins into the jar i will put 1 or 2 skeins in (depending on size) add some procure, add more skeins and then procure until i fit it all in....LEAVE ROOM for the shaking and mixing and also so that when you flip the jar every couple hours it can reach the majority of the roe. you must flip the jar or some eggs will start to "burn" and not be very good at all, others will just get hardly any colour. I shake it everytime im about to flip it just to get the juices in everywhere.
I could do an entire step by step but i have no roe left to do up because its all done until i get more ;)
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Borax is king!
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Does anyone use the wet brine method described on Rodneys main web page? I have tried it with pink roe and have yet to use it, the roe seems to be fairly firm after drying, just wondering?
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I will use pro-cure for most of my salmon fishing. I find salmon love the chemical shiz.
Natural is king for steelhead. Apparently the most deadly roe for steelhead is uncured roe that has just been taken from a fish. I realize this is not possible in local waters due to the one fish limit.
I use the dry mix if I'm lazy or in a rush. I put a mix of borax and procure in a ziploc and then toss in the skeins. shake shake shake. let it sit in the fridge for 12-18 hours while shaking periodically. I'll then cover the roe in fresh borax and put into the freezer.
The "No longer sticky and tricky" method as described by Rodney is great too. If done correctly it will produce a rubbery, durable roe that still creates a nice scent trail.
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you have to sign up to this site but its a good tutorial video.
http://www.steelheadstalkers.com/access.php?where=curing_roe_tutorial.htm
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If you're using the pink procure, then its just because the dye in that colour isnt very strong. It barely coloured my skeins even thought some were left in the cure for as long as 48hrs.
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The instructions for the Pautzke's says to let the roe sit in the cure (in a container, refrigerated) for 3 days. I find that my roe always turns a nice bright red when using the red cure. After 3 days, I'll dry it for a bit, then either freeze, or use within a week or two. I'm definitely not a roe expert though! I rely on my roe master - Stratacaster, or is it Chum8888? I figured since he helps me with the roe, I can help him with the flies! :D
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Does anyone use the wet brine method described on Rodneys main web page? I have tried it with pink roe and have yet to use it, the roe seems to be fairly firm after drying, just wondering?
Umm.... I tried to find it and couldn't. I must be extra slow today, so if some one would like to post a link to it that would be great.
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Umm.... I tried to find it and couldn't. I must be extra slow today, so if some one would like to post a link to it that would be great.
Here: http://www.fishingwithrod.com/articles/2004/1004_01.html
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Here: http://www.fishingwithrod.com/articles/2004/1004_01.html
Thanks.
So does anyone use a wet cure AKA put eggs in a liquid solution indefinitely until used?
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Coho_Crazy - how do you figure my roe is ruined because i rinsed it ?? im only rinsing the excess colour off the eggs it doesnt get rinsed much longer then a minute maybe. I like my roe nice and dry so i dont get dye all over everything my hands touch. alot more enjoyable fishing that way and i dont have to scrub my rods/reels clean all the time (or at all) the roe i make up slays fish whenever i use roe so i dont think its ruined to say the least ;)
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Does anyone use the wet brine method described on Rodneys main web page? I have tried it with pink roe and have yet to use it, the roe seems to be fairly firm after drying, just wondering?
Did a similar thing and had the same results, tuff roe.
But hey the title says "No Longer Sticky and Tricky roe " so seems about right. I think if you go on the lighter side of time in salt brine and always keep an eye on the drying it might turn out different. I went to the heaver side of things and then rolled it in pro-cure and then kinda over dried it a bit.
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if anyone has any pics of their final product I would love to see it, I did another batch of chum and it turned out nice, its frozen now put i will post a pic of the finished stuff next week once I have been out ;D
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I keep it simple. No dye. Just dry out, borax and than into roe bags. Nice natural roe in a sac and no mess. The color comes from the color of a roe bag good enough for me lol Also it lasts more than 3 or 4 casts. Even better is when we get the chum and get some chum roe. Than its single eggs. Single eggs means absolutely no mess. 5 eggs in a sac and your golden.
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Jar method for me. I've been using ProCure for years. Started using fire cure a few years back and haven't looked back since this year. Got turned onto Nates Bait Cure. So far it blows them both out of the water. Someone on an earlier post mentioned something about rinsing after curing. Do not do this unless you want to start the eggs milking. Best to keep all their juices in until you put them in the water you're going to fish. Most guides don't even rinse skeins after they've taken them out of the fish.
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NO the roe does not milk, the only thing that drains off is colouring.The water rinsing off is like food coloured water, faint colour but still clear looking. no milky,cloudyness to it at all. So why does this sound so bad ?? I can take a pic of my final product with a dusting of borax on it (because its all jarred waiting to be fished) I dont think i need to catch tons more fish, i catch enough to keep me plenty happy ;D and i dont kill nearly as many as i used to. I have been killing a few more this year then the last few because we are eating alot more lately since my girlfriend has figured out a good marinade ;D MMMM gonna have Coho tomorrow
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HOOK look doesnt matter.
He is saying that the juices and scents inside the eggs from the pro cure is being washed away - probably true.
Myself I brine it for 2 days in pro-cure (double red hot stuff) after butterflying the skeins...
After this I fill a bucket with borax... lay the eggs on a newspapers, cut into chunks throw them in the bucket and shake around (no drying time).
Then I fill a small ziplock bag a quarter full with borax, add 20 pieces of loonie size roe that have been shaken already, mix around then freeze.
This gives me a VERY good looking product, that never gets my hands sticky or coloured and catches alot of fish. Have left it in the freezer a year and still caught fish.
Natural I just betterfly the skeins, let them dry for 6-8 hours.
After this cut into chunks, throw them intot he bucket again and shake em up.
After the bucket they too go into a quarter filled ziplock bag full of roe (20 chunks).
Each bag normally lasts me a full day, stays on forever and looks good. Most importantly catches fish, and milks very nice.
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First and foremost if you want quality eggs you must bleed the Fish ASAP after bonking it, and remove the eggs from the fish
My roe doesnt dry at all (For me quality eggs is important in hook up ratios) I go through tons of Borax i keep Pricemart foods sold out
Butterfly the skein, cut into strips then bait size peices in the procure to allow the eggs to juice, then re absorb after 3 days in the procure, straight in the borax and in a ziploc ready to fish. Adding Anise oil 1 day after the eggs have been in the jar of cure works well also, the anise oil will get re absorbed in to the eggs by day 3 - when i go to borax my roe and fish it, its dry and plump ready to go, i get a solid 5-10 casts out of a peice of roe
This methods works well, on connecting a constant 15-20 or more fish per outing.
Rinsing your eggs is not wise as the milking process as it hits the water plays an important roll on scent trails.
Pick up the egg cures book and read it, lots of great info
Here is a few ideas what i go by
Steelhead roe- Always natural ,i like wet natural brines with sugar/borax/salt/water etc
Coho roe - Natural its allready red either Borax cure,sugars, or natural procure add anise oil
Chum Roe - Either Natural or procured orange or red most of the time natural
Pink Roe - Pro Cured red, sometimes natural if its really orange colored eggs
Spring roe red/white - Procure the roe red/add anise oil
just because cured eggs look awesome when there done doesnt mean there awesome eggs, another thing you cant just chuck out a peice of bait and expect to catch something, you have to know how to read water and figure out where exactly those fish are going to be, once you got that figured out then your bait will provide you with lots of hook ups there is so many factors in getting a fish to bite your eggs then to just having a great bag of eggs.
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One more thing about rinsing eggs. If you're using tap water, you're rinsing it in chlorinated water. Just like brining herring; you want to use river water or distilled water.
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OK - here's a question. Recently I attempted to cure up some pink roe using Pautzke's Balls of Fire (red). Normally when I use this cure, the eggs (e.g. coho, chum, spring) work out well. Anyway, I found that after three days, the eggs reabsorbed the juice - but over time, the eggs seemed to leak out the juice! Individual eggs looked a bit shriveled up - if you get my drift. I dried and boraxed the eggs which seemed to work in the short term, but over a few days in the fridge, the egss seemed to just leak out more juice, and the borax just got wet! Anybody know why this is happening and if this is a bad thing?
???
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OK - here's a question. Recently I attempted to cure up some pink roe using Pautzke's Balls of Fire (red). Normally when I use this cure, the eggs (e.g. coho, chum, spring) work out well. Anyway, I found that after three days, the eggs reabsorbed the juice - but over time, the eggs seemed to leak out the juice! Individual eggs looked a bit shriveled up - if you get my drift. I dried and boraxed the eggs which seemed to work in the short term, but over a few days in the fridge, the egss seemed to just leak out more juice, and the borax just got wet! Anybody know why this is happening and if this is a bad thing?
???
I used the Pautzke BoraxOFire for the first time awhile back. I did a wet brine and put them out on the drying racks. It took forever to dry the eggs. Usually when using procure or a natural wet brine the eggs will dry within 12-18 hours. If I recall correctly, the borax o fire took almost 3 days to dry to my liking.
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I thought the BorX O Fire worked by the more you added the drier it made the eggs ?? i mean it already has borax added to it, and i think thats what it says on the jar also. I read it but decided not to buy it and stuck to procures instead
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Your thoughts?
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Bags are a bit of a hassle to make but they last so much longer on the hook.
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Bags are a bit of a hassle to make but they last so much longer on the hook.
and less messy. Roe bags are the way I do it as I hate the mess and having to rebait every few casts
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ok seeing as everyone thinks rinsing roe is dumb, i have questions then.
I HATE roe that is sticky or dyes my fingers when im fishing. What is the best way to procure your roe (jar method) so i can make it nice and dry??
I cant just lay it all out because my girlfriend hates the smell of the procure which i kinda have to agree with. would it be better to cut it into chunks BEFORE throwing it into the jar with procure ??
im not a roe master as i hardly fish it anyways, i do make a good product but there is always room for improvement ;)
I guess if i chunked it first then procured it i could just take it out of the jar and let it sit and dry. How long would the drying take then ??? it takes about 8hrs the way i do it now. I do borax all my roe once it has been cut and dried out, I mean its still a little sticky when i re-jar it and borax it.
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if you make tougher roe by drying it then it will last longer then a few casts. roe bags are great for steelhead though because when a bag is crushed or torn your know it was a fish, where as with chunks you can bump a rock and have it fall off >:( Yes even when short floating it can happen. Bags are also better if the fish are just tapping it because they have to commit to the bite to actually get a good taste, with chunks they can steal it from you without you being able to hook them however they will always come back for more ;D
I personally like chunks because it takes me a couple hours to make enough roe bags for one days fishing and thats to much of a pain for me. especially when i have some chunks last me like 20-30 casts, I sometimes toss chunks away because the colour is gone before the roe has been destroyed or munched :'(
YES you can put chunks in roe bags which can be way better then using singles in bags because chunks will milk really well compared to singles i have found.
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A quick rinse isn't going to hurt it too much as the salt in the eggs milk out over time. When your bait hits the water most of the scent is lost in the upper column of water any way, at least that is my thoughts.
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YES you can put chunks in roe bags which can be way better then using singles in bags because chunks will milk really well compared to singles i have found.
Awsome! That is what I was thinking of doing with a new batch and recipe that dose not involve drying or placing on borax so it is a soft yet very milky bait.
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It's actually the borax that 'milks' off for the first couple of casts.
I have only used singles for steelhead.
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ACTUALLY ! the eggs milk out a scent, the borax is just to make it easier and acleaner to handle
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It's actually the borax that 'milks' off for the first couple of casts.
I have only used singles for steelhead.
Umm... and then the salts in the eggs? I don't know if the borax penetrates the eggs but the sure salt does when in the brine.
I'm not putting my baits on borax this year so... it's what is inside the eggs that milks out. Ant it milks out much better than the borax/dryed method (15 minutes easy). I've tested them in glasses of water.
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Umm... and then the salts in the eggs? I don't know if the borax penetrates the eggs but the sure salt does when in the brine.
I'm not putting my baits on borax this year so... it's what is inside the eggs that milks out. Ant it milks out much better than the borax/dryed method (15 minutes easy). I've tested them in glasses of water.
ACTUALLY ! the eggs milk out a scent, the borax is just to make it easier and acleaner to handle
And is gone with in in seconds of hitting the water. The scent milks out threw osmosis.
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Doesn't anyone use nitrile gloves?
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I've made roe bags out of "chunks" and caught both coho and steelhead on them. It does take time to make up - usually the night before. However, they do last longer. Lately, I've been just using chunks under Stratocaster's mentoring and it seems to be working well. It's all in the sauce... ;) ;) ;)
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been using bags (the last few days out) from regular cured skeins, just to make the roe go a little further.
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I think chunks is the only way to go right now. Gin clear and low conditions chunks will definitely outfish bags.
The only time I will use bags is when visibility is down to 2-3ft or when I'm barfishing.
I'm getting anywhere from 10-20 casts with my procured roe. I'd say average is about 15 casts. And as HOOK said, I've often changed my roe chunk because the colour has faded and the eggs have still be in perfect shape.
If you want to get more durable eggs try adding some Knox Gelatin to your cure. It will make your eggs nice and rubbery and increase durability.
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I like using bags myself. Last longer and cleaner to handle when on the river.
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I'm usually a roe bag guy but the last couple times out I switched to little pieces of boraxed roe and it's proven to be successful. Roe bags have worked very well in the past for me, but with the water being so low and clear I thought I would go real small and light. Today I was able to land 6 spring jacks and one spring about 15lbs. No coho today. Every one else that I could see were catching or S? pinks. A very nice day on the river.
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Nitrile gloves are the best for roe, you can even cut of the fingers and wear those on your roe hand while fishing, keeps the roe and dye of off you and your smell off the roe
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Hey Rod, were do you get the Nates Bait Cure?
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(http://www.milojko.com/roe.JPG)
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Doesn't anyone use nitrile gloves?
l use them when the skein's aren't cured yet as anything on your hands can't taint them ,after curing though there's so much chemicals in there i don't think it matters,when i do singles i also rinse my eggs off in ice cold water to 1 stop the bleeding and 2 to remove any of the cure so their clean and i've never had any problems over the years.
The only other time i rinse my eggs is if there's some blood still on them and i usually do that @the river not a lot water just enough to remove the blood.
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C_Crazy - I normally cut my skeins into peices after i have cured them because i just find it easier then doing it before however if i wasnt going to srinse them then i would probably cut them all up first. who knows it might just be a pain either way LOL
I have 6 huge spring skeins to do up now :o
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Sportco or outdoor emporium in Seattle. Also on line http://www.natesbaitfishingproducts.com/
Its a very crappy website, but s great cure and the best herring cure on the market.
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Will the cure actually penetrate into the middle of a large whole skein? I've been cutting mine up into bait-sized chunks first, then curing them in a jar for a couple hours, drying them a couple hours until they're tough and them freezing them in borax.
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anyone?
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Will the cure actually penetrate into the middle of a large whole skein? I've been cutting mine up into bait-sized chunks first, then curing them in a jar for a couple hours, drying them a couple hours until they're tough and them freezing them in borax.
Yes, I use a brine cure and it penetrates the whole skein. After the skein been in the brine for a while I drain and cut it into chunks for drying overnight.
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Do you mean letting the juice out in and "marinade" in Procure or Pautzkes or do you mean actually making a sugar/salt +_________ +water brine?
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Actual brine of salt, dye and _____
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_________? = what? ;D
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Where can I get larger sections of mesh to wrap up roe bags the size of billiard balls for sturgeon? Would Fabric-land have it?
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stockings
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Ah, another one of those awkward items that you hate going to pick up :D
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Fishing requires a lot of awkward purchases. A couple weeks ago, I bought another jar of nail polish for chironomids, I bought a pink feather boa once because it was a lifetime of pink marabou for $4, now womens' underwear. Combine this interest with stuff you use to work on cars and you can add in a turkey baster (lazy-arsed way to change brake fluid), vaseline (prime oil pumps), latex gloves (CV boots) etc... I'd love to leave that stuff in my truck sometime when I'm giving a non-fishing, non-car friend a ride... ;D
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If in a jam 7-11 sells them
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Go to canadian tire and buy game netting or game cheesecloth it is very tough unlike stocking and you can feel like a man when you buy them..
It is in the Hunting section..
It is the best i have found so far it is nice and soft too.
I think it is $5 bucks for a big bag.
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I have always used old and have bought new stockings...but find it's damn expensive. I will check out the cheesecloth. See if it's better bang for the buck. But there is nothing like the end of the stockings (toes/feet) for roe balls..it's the easiest part to deal with. That's enough talk about stockings for me in a post.
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If in a jam 7-11 sells them
Your kidding, so ... "I'll have a Redbull, a bag of Doritos, and oh... that pair of woman's tights over there too." ;D
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good old dollar stores sell stockings cheep
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good old dollar stores sell stockings cheep
Thats where I always get them too.
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I live in Abbotsford. You wouldn't believe the great colours and mesh style you can find in an East Indian fabric store. Samosas, butter chicken, and great peaches, reds, and oranges that have caught me springs, coho, chum, steelhead (Thompson, too!). Buy a yard, and give it a try!
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I bought a lifetime supply from fabricland. They have a great selection in the number of colors and mesh sizes.
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A common mistake people make is using Roe Bags that are too big.
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I get my mesh in the fabric section at wal-mart.
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A common mistake people make is using Roe Bags that are too big.
I agree. When I first got started that was my problem. I switched to slightly larger than golf ball sized roe bags and my success increased two fold.
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Shoppers drug mart , ladys pantyhose is the best mesh out there imo
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yup, but its always funny to watch the looks you get when you go through the til!
;)
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A common mistake people make is using Roe Bags that are too big.
They are intended for sturgeon, not salmon.
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They are intended for sturgeon, not salmon.
What Sam is saying is that people make the mistake of making the roe bags too big for sturgeon. Like I wrote in my previous post to this topic it is a common mistake to make very large roe bags for sturgeon. Stick to the size slightly larger than a golf ball and you well hit a hole in one. :)
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Interesting, I didn't think sturgeon would be picky about ball-size (you know what I mean ;D). I figured they'd be chowing down of whole salmon right about now.
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Matt:
In Ont, the best lae was Fabric Land for "Scarf" Not mesh. Scarf is softer to touch, but is thinner in diamiter and is stronger than mesh IMO
Most Fabric stores, or tailor shops will be able to provide you with different coulors ad cheaper by the foot than going to CT for mesh.
Hope that helps bro!
Float.
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I picked up some red mesh today at lunch at Fabric Land. The stuff that is most similar to the mesh you find pre-cut for roe bags is called "tull mesh". It was $3 for at least 1mx1m. They had lots of colours- red, drk red, pink, white, and orange were the ones i saw of interest.
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Matt:
The "Tull" Mesh I find is a stiffer material to tie with. Though I'm used to tying dime sized bags in SW ONT.
Try the Scarf if you get a chance bro, well worth it.
Float.
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I'll have a look. Not sure if soft will mean that course fish will mulch the bait faster. Thanks for the advice on the scarf material, I just grabbed what I saw first to get beck to work on time.
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Matt: In my exp, I don't know so much as the fish feeling the bait (Mind you I have never fished Sturgeon) I have had days in Ont as to where one lad in a pool was fishing white "Mesh" I was fishing the same, but scarff. I out did him 12 to 1. The scarff tends to blend better in the water, what I mean is, when I've drifted all colours of mesh, as opposed to scarff, with scarff, because of the thinner diamiter, it looks like there is no wrap to the roe, skein, or even singles. With the mesh, I find you can see the mesh before the eggs. Now don't get me wrong, have had many a days when it was last minute roe tying, and used mesh and had great days!!! I just find the scarff is just more natural in the water, to the fish, and much nicer to tie bags with.
Though, if you are chasing Sturgeon, I imagine that the "Pantyhose" is the easiest for baseball roe bags.
My best bro:
Float.
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You know, I think I will try this scarf sometime stuff. Maybe I'll make a tutu with the rest of my "tull mesh" so people give me more space on the Vedder.
http://www.thepartyshop.net.au/x-scripts/oscommerce/images/Man%20Pink%20Tutu%20Bow.jpg (ftp://http://www.thepartyshop.net.au/x-scripts/oscommerce/images/Man%20Pink%20Tutu%20Bow.jpg)
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I read some of the ideas about using stockings for Roe sacks with interest but I have a related question:
I am new to using Roe and I read this article on the subject:
http://www.lakemichiganangler.com/tips/salmon_eggs/making_spawn_sacks.htm
(Someone had posted this link on the forum earlier on).
The article is informative but they recommend the use a special thread called 'magic thread' to tie up the sacks. Do I really need to use a special thread for this or is there some potentially cheaper alternative?
Any ideas much appreciated.
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You can use anything but Magic Thread is alot easier to use.
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I have not seen it here, but have notlooked hard either, but I used "Spider thread" In Ont. Just wrap 7-10 times thn break it off. It's an elasticy string that molds to yur bag and as soon as it hits water, its gets tuffer. Onl about 4$ in Ontand worth it's weight in gold for tying quick bags. Canadian Tire might have it.
Float.
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I use Spider thread (forget what the exact name is).
10 or so wraps then break it off - cut off the remaining mesh close to the wrap.
Bought it at a fishing store so most of the should have it.
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One more vote for Spider Thread. These types of thread don't require a knot to finish them, just the tension needed to snap it as it digs into the previous wraps. Then, surprisingly enough, the wrap stays put!
The thread is also used to keep prawns, shrimp, and big chunks of straight roe for bar fishing on the hook. The fish don't seem to mind it, and it may help snag the teeth when they bite, holding them a little longer. It's also used for sardine wraps on plugs.
Maybe I'll use mine to wrap up packs of Hallowee'en candy this year! (doing the same with an engagement ring, however, might be effective, but definitely NOT recommended!)
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Thanks much for the info. I am pretty fat fingered so the lack of need for knot tying as a definite advantage with this 'spider thread'. Will have to see if I can find it.
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Canadian Tire carries spider thread its hanging right where the spwan sack material is ;D Exactly what i use if im making bags. I also picked up a roe bag tying buddy or whatever its called.
I dont tie bags at all anymore so if someone wants this little thing with spawn sack and thread just let me know. you pick up though
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Thanks much everybody, I went out to Canadian Tire and found exactly what you described.
Other question for you experts:
How many eggs should I tie in? Should I be using a large bunch or just a few.
Do you tie all your row sacks before heading out? (..if I am out at first light I don't want to be fumbling about, just put it in the egg loop, chuck..and pray).
This time I am determined to get lucky. Taking Thursday off just so I can hit the Vedder at first light with the possibility of fewer crowds around. Never had a Coho but I am reasonably sure I had one on wool two weekends back before it spat me out. It was a blast! This time I am going to throw everything at them :) ...and if I get nothing I would have had a good laugh and hopefully the chance to get at em again and again until something happens.
PS: Welcome to the forum floatfishing. I liked your photos from Ontario and, until now, did not know there was a Pacific Salmon fishery there. [...curiously, I had heard about Salmon fisheries as far afield as Chile so I guess they have been introduced anywhere where suitable conditions exist but I will need to do some googling to confirm that :))
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I think chunks is the only way to go right now. Gin clear and low conditions chunks will definitely outfish bags.
The only time I will use bags is when visibility is down to 2-3ft or when I'm barfishing.
I'm getting anywhere from 10-20 casts with my procured roe. I'd say average is about 15 casts. And as HOOK said, I've often changed my roe chunk because the colour has faded and the eggs have still be in perfect shape.
If you want to get more durable eggs try adding some Knox Gelatin to your cure. It will make your eggs nice and rubbery and increase durability.
How much gelatin do you add/ skein roughly? I'm curing up some eggs tonight with Fire Cure in a jar. Do you just throw it in with the cure?
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do you buy the gelatin at a grocery store?
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There are no hard and fast rules. Depends on the size of the eggs and the water you're fishing. I prefer 4-5 spring eggs.
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Fishseeker - you dont put a roe bag in the bait loop. all you do is stick the hook through the mesh and hopefully between the eggs without puncturing any and out the other side. It will stay on pretty good because of the mesh material of the spawn netting.
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I was told by a guy that you can just use Jello powder to dye and cure your eggs and apparently it works well. I would think you would still want to add some procure to it and even some scent of some kind just to make it better. I think i will try up some Jello eggs when i get some chummies
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I got some coho roe and would like to cure it tonight but only have borax. Does anyone know how much to use and how long to dry, ect.?
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I lay the eggs on some paper towels and put them in the fridge for an hour or so. Then I cut them into bait size chunks and roll them around in borax. Store and freeze.
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Another thought, something I wrote last year- sometimes I like to tie up some emergency egg sacs using Berkeley Power eggs just for fun. They do work well, and are there when I run out of roe, sacs, or it's still frozen 'cause it's a last-second trip out. They don't need refrigeration and work like gooey bobs or the scented egg clusters that are sold. The jar's a nice handy container as well. Aw heck- I know it's not practical, but neither is fishing. It's just FUN ;D
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Oh Yeah- about the tulling (sp?)- I sometimes found it too wiry to safely tie the sacs without breakage. That's where the search for softer tulling helps. I should have taken some from my buddy's wedding in Kelowna late August as it was quite soft and easily coloured with fluorescent markers. Scarf materials are quite soft, too. It's the search that's fun.
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I'm about 1 day into curing a batch of chum roe with Pautzke's Fire Cure. Its a dark red-purple like congealed blood with a little purple mixed in- I was a little surprised by that. With roe that red, makes me wonder if natural might be better for low-water conditions. Any thoughts on this?
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been doing pretty good with fire orange pro cured spring roe. I would cuggest trying Tillamook blend or fire orange for low water ;)
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I have been using orange mostly and the fish have liked it. have seen people doing well on red also (looks bright pink once wet). I dye my spring roe because it just way to pale for my liking thats why i do orange & red. with coho & steelhead roe i would do natural though
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Why didnt you come by and say Hi then ;) If you havent noticed im a very friendly angler and always willing to help where i can (not that you need any im just saying)
I think its funny when you see members from forums and they try to avoid you like the plague LOL especially ones that talk alot of crap and not willing to say anything face to face ::)
I was out there on sunday so it very well could have been me. I wasnt having a good day because the wind was destroying me with the giant loop making it impossible to get good hook sets :'( got a few fish though including a huge wild coho which started the morning off great ;D
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Im usually always fishing with someone so feel free to come interrupt ;) I think when you saw me i must have been talking to former members of this site LOL
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Fishseeker - you dont put a roe bag in the bait loop. all you do is stick the hook through the mesh and hopefully between the eggs without puncturing any and out the other side. It will stay on pretty good because of the mesh material of the spawn netting.
I'll let you in on the sturgeon secret of the year.
Use the rubber bumpers from Buzzbombs to hold your baitbag on the hook.
You can buy the bumpers separately in a package of 10.
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^I like it.
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ya those were the guys LOL they are both former members from here and another site i used to be on. He was showing off his roe to me but i wasnt that impressed ::) it didnt look much different then mine except mine was a little drier but thats how i like it ;)
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Anyone mix in a little orange in their red Fire Cure roe? My roe looks somewhere between raspberry and grape jelly (just the colour). Doesn't look like any roe that exists in nature.
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Anyone mix in a little orange in their red Fire Cure roe? My roe looks somewhere between raspberry and grape jelly (just the colour). Doesn't look like any roe that exists in nature.
I had the same problem with the Pautzke's. I used the borax'o'fire in red. I did a wet brine.
Used the same procedure and the exact same amount of cure and other ingredients as I have done hundreds of times in the past with procure....
The end result was a purple coloured roe. It also took 3 days to dry as opposed the the usual 12-18 hours. And the colour bled like crazy when it got wet. After my first drift, when the roe was soaked, it would spray red/purple colouring on my buddy as I cast.
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better go back to the pro cure for the rest of our roe Matt ;) Maybe I should snag the rest of the leftover pink roe for tomorrow as well just incase.
J
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I'm a little more confident in Pautzke's today. My roe is drying at the same speed as the Pro-Cure, but its a lot more egg-like and less desiccated. As it dries out, it looks alot more red than before. I think I may mix in a little orange-coloured Pautzke's next time I get some roe to get a red-orange colour instead of red-pink. I'd say that it started off at "RAL 4006" (think phenolphthalein) and once it soaks in and starts drying its becomes like 3031.
(http://www.hpvelotechnik.com/images/service/ral_karte_tiger1.jpg)
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well the last few Weeks if been using roe on the vedder. i like using it but it seems every time i see my float go down or do a little dance i yank on it hoping for a coho. and sometimes theres no fish there so i end up losing my roe. all I'm doing to keep my roe on it putting it in a bait loop. does this happen to everyone that uses roe or is there a better way to keep your roe on your hook longer?
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try roe sacks
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Last time I was out, I noticed a little hump in the middle of a drift. Lots of guys that fished too deep would set the hook on this sandy hump every time their gear went over it. maybe try shortening up your float...that way if you know you are well off bottom then any movement should be a fish.
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The best way to keep the roe on the hook is using a bait loop. Try wrapping the line around the hook shank 20-30 times. This will increase the surface area which the line touches the roe. Therefore it shouldn't cut through the skein membrane as easily.
I find coho have very soft mouths. You can set the hook with a gentle tug. You don't have to yank on it so hard that your float comes flying back at you. Plus the gentle tug hookset helps keep the pool unspooked.
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First of all, make sure the roe is quality roe with some skein attached. Make sure the bait loop goes around the skein. Should last several casts.
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Well, it will take some time for you to be able to tell a bite from bottom.
So just keep doing what you are doing.
For springs, roe sacks work well. They just don't care.
For other fish appropriate roe cure would be better.
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would it be ok if i was to buy some roe already cured and ad some borax to it for a little more cure.... so to speak. or would that be something i shouldnt do.
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would it be ok if i was to buy some roe already cured and ad some borax to it for a little more cure.... so to speak. or would that be something i shouldnt do.
I do this with all the roe I buy. Take it out of the container and put it in a fresh bag of borax. shake shake shake.
As for actual cure, I wouldn't suggest adding it to cured/frozen roe.
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I know people that fish dark purple roe and green roe with great success. If the roe is milking well, and tastes and smells good, you'll probably have a good chance of success regardless of what color it is. This said though.... things change, conditions, fishing pressure, etc. Best to just be prepared to change as well. Don't get too attached to one spot, lure or style and you'll be successful more often than not.
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Can anyone recommend a place near Vancouver where you can buy some fresh roe to cure yourself?
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Can anyone recommend a place near Vancouver where you can buy some fresh roe to cure yourself?
As mentioned on this tread, Bruce Market at Maple Ridge
find it on googlemap, easy to find.
now,its chum season, roe should be 8 dollars or more per/lb.
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Thanks - may be up stave way this weekend will check it out,
Nick
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Also try Stevestons Public Market in richmond there selling it cheap and fresh
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Bruce's roe was a little "juicy" and soft, I think they may have frozen it first (don't they have to do this with food grade roe?). Fresh roe is firmer less slimy.
How much is the Steveston's chum roe?
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Went to Steveston today - you can get chum and some coho roe down there at the quayside straight off the boat- it's 8 / lb. There were a number of boats selling it there so you can have a look at them all to see which you like the look of. Got some of both and will cure some up over the weekend and let you know how I got on.
Nick
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Call me a tighter than two coats of paint, but $8 is pretty expensive and its the same as Bruce's.
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A few more tips. Raspberry Jello added to your cure will do a few things. First the gelatin in it will add a little firmness to the eggs, secondly it will make the eggs a darker red, and the sugar is also an attractant (more so for salmon than steelhead). Orange, peach, and grape Jello colors also work.
If making egg sacks you can also add a couple of colored foam "puffballs" to the sack. They add a little flotation and also help stretch your egg supply.
When tieing your egg loop leaders wind about 18 turns of line around the hook on the front, end of leader through the eye and then 6 turns around the hook and pull tight. What this does is give you more room on the hook for your egg clusters and the added wraps spread the stress over more area of the cluster. What this all means is that you won't cut through the egg cluster nearly as fast in heavy water or if you bump bottom or swing and miss on a strike.
Bad eggs are better than no eggs. But good eggs are easy to cure and are far more productive.
Steelhead are more sight oriented so look is of most importance. Milder cures work well and are easier to work with. Salmon, on the other hand, are chemical junkies and a hot sulfite cure works better than milder cures. Will one cure work for every fish? Yup, just not as well as a cure tailored to specie. Most cure mfgs make multiple cures and for a lot of reasons other than color. Tidewater cures that milk heavily but are not durable. Upriver cures that are don't milk as well but last longer in faster water. Cures for upriver or for salmon that have been in the river a long time (more salt in the cure as salmon crave salt the longer they are away.
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Thanks much for the info. I am pretty fat fingered so the lack of need for knot tying as a definite advantage with this 'spider thread'. Will have to see if I can find it.
Try dental floss.
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Spider thread is so far above and beyond the rest its unreal. I have a spool of Magic Thread that will likely stay on the spool until the end of time.
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A few more tips. Raspberry Jello added to your cure will do a few things. First the gelatin in it will add a little firmness to the eggs, secondly it will make the eggs a darker red, and the sugar is also an attractant (more so for salmon than steelhead). Orange, peach, and grape Jello colors also work.
If making egg sacks you can also add a couple of colored foam "puffballs" to the sack. They add a little flotation and also help stretch your egg supply.
When tieing your egg loop leaders wind about 18 turns of line around the hook on the front, end of leader through the eye and then 6 turns around the hook and pull tight. What this does is give you more room on the hook for your egg clusters and the added wraps spread the stress over more area of the cluster. What this all means is that you won't cut through the egg cluster nearly as fast in heavy water or if you bump bottom or swing and miss on a strike.
Bad eggs are better than no eggs. But good eggs are easy to cure and are far more productive.
Steelhead are more sight oriented so look is of most importance. Milder cures work well and are easier to work with. Salmon, on the other hand, are chemical junkies and a hot sulfite cure works better than milder cures. Will one cure work for every fish? Yup, just not as well as a cure tailored to specie. Most cure mfgs make multiple cures and for a lot of reasons other than color. Tidewater cures that milk heavily but are not durable. Upriver cures that are don't milk as well but last longer in faster water. Cures for upriver or for salmon that have been in the river a long time (more salt in the cure as salmon crave salt the longer they are away.
So far, this is consistent with everything I've learned about curing and fishing and I've experimented a bunch with the curing. Some great new info too, thanks.
Has anyone treated a skein with a mild boric acid solution as can be done to singles to make them rubbery?
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sorry to resurrect an old thread but I wanted to ask a question about spawn sacks.
Has anyone used frozen pre cured roe for spawn sacks? and should you sprinkle some cure on it after it defrosts before you tie off some sacks? Or can you cure the roe again to make clusters.
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http://www.statesmanjournal.com/assets/pdf/J01486461216.PDF
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Will anyone be using sockeye roe this fall?or is it a waste of time since the eggs are smaller?
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They are all good.
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fresh roe is fresh roe.....i've got about 12 pounds of sock and spring roe curing
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No problem with it. Worked fine on the Thompson and should be alright in the fall.
Cheers
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awsome...just tied up a few sacks for coho season :)first time ive tried curing eggs......they came out a little soft.To get a stronger egg do I let it air dry longer?
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Does anyone use BorXoFire by Pautzke?Is it supposed to make the eggs juice up like pro cure?Im new to the whole egg curing...so i'm curious
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Hey all,I tried curing my roe,then put it in a jar with borax and then put it in the freezer.I checked it today...and the roe is shriveled up,dry and brittle.Does anyone have an idea of what the problem could be to cause this?
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i'm not too fancy into roe i just cure it 1 to 1 to 1 between borax, salt and sugar, let it brine for 30 min to a hour depending on the size of the eggs then let is air dry (usually inside my bbq) for 24 hours, then i check to see how gooey it is, seems to turn out very nice natural colour i suppose you could add food colouring to change the colours around. I am no expert though. i also wrap each skein by itself in plastic wrap for the freezer
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I'll add my tips as well.
Most years I just keep roe from the fish I catch and cure it as I go. I rarely fished htis summer,so I just bought some sockeye roe off the dock in Steveston. You had to ask at the dock as they did not have it out when I was there. $5 got me enough to fill 3 big jars, and I cured it all at once instead of a little batch after each fishing trip. I know the cured roe will keep well through the end of the fall salmon season. Just followed the directions on the cure.
I used to use the Proc-cure, but have recently switched to Pautzke Fire Cure. They seem to work equally well, but the Pautzke is easier to use, and does not stain - a big advantage after staining kitchen counters and having my wife say "keep those roe stained hands away from me!" ;D
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Oh and one mor tip.
I used to cut the roe into several inch chunks before curing, as described on the cure box. Works ok, but then you have to cut the cured roe as you use it - a bit messy.
Lately I have started cutting the roe into fishing size chunks before I cure it. Seems to work well for me, and much easier to fish.
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Weatherby, what process did you use to cure your eggs? It can be as simple as adding some procure to the eggs. Cover the eggs but not too much because you do not want to burn them with too much cure. Then a simple no fuss approach is to put the curing eggs in a glass jar with a lid in the fridge. Every three to four hours you can slosh this mixture around by lightly shaking the glass jar. Having a sealed lid on top makes it mess free. You will see the juices leach out of the eggs, but keep on doing this for at least a day or two. What you will see is that as the eggs cure, the juices will be reabsorbed into the eggs. At the point, you are happy with the cured product you could air dry them but I either lightly coat them with borax , or just freeze them up in strips that I can cut up for upcoming fishing trips. The eggs should not be too tough, or brittle but allow you to handle them and they should milk in the water to attract the salmon. Hope this helps.
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Weatherby, what process did you use to cure your eggs? It can be as simple as adding some procure to the eggs. Cover the eggs but not too much because you do not want to burn them with too much cure. Then a simple no fuss approach is to put the curing eggs in a glass jar with a lid in the fridge. Every three to four hours you can slosh this mixture around by lightly shaking the glass jar. Having a sealed lid on top makes it mess free. You will see the juices leach out of the eggs, but keep on doing this for at least a day or two. What you will see is that as the eggs cure, the juices will be reabsorbed into the eggs. At the point, you are happy with the cured product you could air dry them but I either lightly coat them with borax , or just freeze them up in strips that I can cut up for upcoming fishing trips. The eggs should not be too tough, or brittle but allow you to handle them and they should milk in the water to attract the salmon. Hope this helps.
Hey Dennyman,I used some pro cure,and I did some in Pautzke borXoFire.I let them sit in the fridge for about 24 hours,turning them every every couple of hours.I havent even been able to fish the eggs yet,And probably wont be able to. Once I coated them with borax and put them in the freezer(about 2 weeks ago),they dried right up,and are brittle.
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Hey Dennyman,I used some pro cure,and I did some in Pautzke borXoFire.I let them sit in the fridge for about 24 hours,turning them every every couple of hours.I havent even been able to fish the eggs yet,And probably wont be able to. Once I coated them with borax and put them in the freezer(about 2 weeks ago),they dried right up,and are brittle.
I'd still consider myself a novice curing roe, but I've experimented a bit and here's some of what I learned...
(http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs046.snc3/13369_586387932946_122505749_34998226_1226335_n.jpg)
The Roe
Fresh roe out of a chrome doe caught out of a river or mouth gives the best roe. I can't offer much on which species is best, but springs give large, pale orange eggs, chum- darker orange and coho give what appeared to me to be the brightest roe by a hair (only saw one pair of coho skeins though). Pinks had the smallest roe and its colour was medium bright orange-ish. If you try to take roe out of a coloured up spawner, the skeins will have already fallen apart and the eggs will be all loose.
Once the fish is caught, bleed it. Take the roe out of the fish and directly place them into a 1 gal Ziploc bag you are carrying for this purpose. DO NOT let the eggs sit in water, as they will cloud.
Some people cut the roe into bite size bits, but they always seemed too small when I got to the river. I found it best to butterfly the skein, then cut into card-deck I cut these down the night before fishing, carefully cutting between the folds on the egg-side of the skein.
Curing with dry cures (ie: Pro Cure, Pautzke's, home made)
The best way I found to use use dry cure was to put say 1/4 cu Pro Cure in a jar, then drop one card deck in, close the lid, shake until every nook and cranny is covered in dry cure. Toss this in a 1 gal Ziploc and do the next one. Once the bag is maybe a 1/3 full, seal it up leaving some air in, and put it in your garage (slightly colder than room temp). The colder it is, the slowing the curing process due to the speed of diffusion/osmosis (wikipedia this if you don't understand). This method uses about the right amount of cure.
What will happen is that fluid will leak out of the eggs due to osmosis, mix with the cure and form a juice. The eggs will appear shriveled and you'll think you've ruined your roe, but after a day or two, the fluid will be reabsorbed back into the eggs. The dye/cure will diffuse in as well and you'll be left with cured and dyed roe. This process takes 2-4 days in your garage. Once the eggs have re-absorbed the juice, prepare to dry them. Cover a table top in newspaper, then cover with borax and let it sit until the skeins feel firm like a medium rare steak. Drying took me between 10 hrs- 24hrs, depending on the humidity, temperature etc.
Once dry, put them in mason jar 3/4 full and fill all the air spaces with borax (shake to get the borax to settle into all the voids). Label with the date, the cure and store in freezer.
Store bought cures
Pautzke's Fire Cure smells like krill, and dyes the eggs a red/ purple colour. The more you use, the more purple it gets. Goes easy on cure. Similar colour to ProCure Double Re Hot. Procure Steelie Pink gives a pale pink tinge to the eggs- the dye is not very potent. Pautzke's gives softer roe that doesn't seem to last too long. Procure was ok, but has no added scent. Tillamook Blend (ProCure) looks like it gives a BC Orange colour which I want to try, but no one carries it near my house. Pacific Angler does AFAIK.
Making your own cure
They all seem to use some variation on sugar, salt and Mule Team Borax (pale green box, laundry isle). Knox Gelatin (near jello section in Safeway) also gives a firmness to the eggs and seems to help toughen the skeins as well. Roe looks better to me dyed, but I never got a chance to fish un-dyed roe. You can also use flavoured jello to colour the roe, but I found the dye to be not-so-potent.
Questions I still have ???
Brining ?
I'm about to try that tmr night with some chum roe. Might use No Longer Sticky and Tricky Roe recipe found here: http://www.fishingwithrod.com/articles/2004/1004_01.html (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/articles/2004/1004_01.html) ... I wonder if its as tough as the Gelatin roe. ???
Roe for salmon, vs roe for steelhead ?
I hear salmon prefer chem cure (which are...?) and steellies prefer more natural cures (dyed borax?). ??? I've scented the roe I've set aside for steelies with anise oil (so they imitate the naturally occuring Jensen egg ???)
NOTE: for sturgeon, you don't need to do anything with the roe, cure-wise- just tie roe bags the size of a golf ball dry until the balls are dry to the touch and freeze in a Ziploc. The only reason I dry a bit first is so I can separate the number I figure I need. Sturgeon will bite on cured roe though, but I've never used it for sturg.
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Looking for some feedback as to what my problem may have been.
I cured up 2 skeins of chum roe using a jar method. Chunks shaken up with procure in the care, let it sit 2 hours and pour off excess juice. Leave the roe in the jar to re-absorb remaining juice, sat in fridge 2 days. Roe looked good and good texture, stored in borax and frozen.
Now I took it out today on the river and found the eggs to be very loose and came off the skein easily, would not last more than two casts. What could have been the cause of this and a remedy? Used the same basic method for some sockeye roe I had and it's perfect, thankfully I brought some along as well.
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Problem....sounds like the fish / roe was too mature / ripe. Remedy.......use it to make roe bags / stay away from chums.. :P ;)
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Problem....sounds like the fish / roe was too mature / ripe. Remedy.......use it to make roe bags / stay away from chums.. :P ;)
yeah thats what Im thinking...I purchased the roe commercially...was in a rush and didnt inspect my eggs.
looks like ill be saving that batch for steel season
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I gathered up 20 skeins from pegleg last night, was going to use them for sturgeon, but can these small skeins be cured for the fall salmon fishery?
How do you cure immature roe? Im looking for just a borax cure, no procure method.
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I gathered up 20 skeins from pegleg last night, was going to use them for sturgeon, but can these small skeins be cured for the fall salmon fishery?
How do you cure immature roe? Im looking for just a borax cure, no procure method.
I've got a few pounds of nice spring roe but have not had to use it yet, been using the sock roe for the last two and a half weeks and into multiple fish every time out. I just cure it up with Pautzkies like normal.
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Ive got some roe that has been pro cured but its still not dried up enough its still super juicy and doesnt stay in the bait loop.
Im going out tomorrow morning so ive left it in the garage on some wax paper to dry out and harden.
Just making sure that wasnt a bad idea, it has already sat in the fridge for a while
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OK - here's a question. I've got some coho roe from fish I got from Pt. Hardy. The roe is a bit small, but it's quite durable due to the ample amount of membrane. Now I got an opinion from who I'd consider an experienced roe fisherman, who isn't as confident with "ocean roe". Is roe from ocean caught fish (coho) as effective as river fish? I imagine it should be fine for the roe pigs - like jacks. I haven't really tried it enough to form an opinion. Sometimes I think I should stay with flies. ;)
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I have only used sea salt for chum roes and then tied them in little spawn bags. They do work, however, fish keep getting away ???
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I left some of mediocre roe in a tupperware with borax and forgot about it in the truck a couple days. It toughened into great roe that lasted maybe a dozen+ casts. Results were duplicated by a buddy. Dry your roe, it will be much tougher.
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If you want roe thats clean to handle and tough, shake borax on the skeins as they're drying, making sure to get it in the folds in the skein. After that borax sucks up some moisture (it will turn the colour of the cure you're using), shake it off and add new borax. As this dries, the skein toughens up quite a bit (but stays flexible) and the eggs feel firmer with a tough shell. Its really clean to handle as its dry to the touch.
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If you have thawed previously frozen procured/borexed roe can you re-freeze it?
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If you have thawed previously frozen procured/borexed roe can you re-freeze it?
I do, multiple times even
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Just wondering what are the opinions about how long cured roe can be stored in the fridge.
I'm Pro-Cure'ing some roe right now in preparation for coho season, which is still a month away. It sounds like a long time to store refrigerated roe but I havent had great success in the past freezing roe (it seems to dry out).
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Just wondering what are the opinions about how long cured roe can be stored in the fridge.
I'm Pro-Cure'ing some roe right now in preparation for coho season, which is still a month away. It sounds like a long time to store refrigerated roe but I havent had great success in the past freezing roe (it seems to dry out).
If its drying out there are two things that can help solve this problem:
Use less borax. When freezing roe less is more, borax will act like a sponge and suck the moisture out of your eggs. I will slowly add borax to my eggs until the borax has a `flour`like feel to it.
Use canning jars. When you go to seal them drop in a lit match and screw tight. The match will burn off all the oxygen, which is what causes them to freezer burn.
I don`t ever take short cuts with my roe, cause the day will come when you need good roe and on that day it will be worth its weight in gold.
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Use canning jars. When you go to seal them drop in a lit match and screw tight. The match will burn off all the oxygen, which is what causes them to freezer burn.
That is smart. Will be sure to try that next time
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The secret with curing eggs is that it doesn't matter what cure you use as long as you take care of the eggs before curing them and make sure to dry them well.
Cured well, it can sit in the freezer for 2/3 years.
(http://www.milojko.com/fishing/DSC00276.JPG)
(http://www.milojko.com/fishing/IMG-20110907-00179.jpg)
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I have been using pro cure forever, but ltely after using a shitload of roe that it is too rubbery, its almost like a red sourkey like textture when i cut a piece off
I need a recipe for one that will be more viscous and like fresh uncured roe, as I find the presentation is way better when the roe is flowing around like jellyfish. any suggestions guys?
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Hey fishunter - how long are you drying your roe? Maybe reduce the drying time and use less borax? Sorry - I'm no expert here and I am not familiiar with procure.
I recently have been trying pink roe and found that it tends to go a bit mushy throughout the day (the eggs seem to slowly bleed out juice). Is that normal? This roe certainly works - but I don't recall spring or coho roe being so juicy. Maybe the roe was too imature at first? Maybe I added too much cure? Hmm...
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I do pink roe in a yogurt pot, butterfly the skeins, tiny sprinkle (1/2 teaspoon) procure, close lid and roll around for a minute or so. Leave overnight, periodically give pot a roll until all juice has been reabsorbed. Put on drying rack until desired consistency is reached. Bag up, add borax. Good to go. Seems to stay on the hook for a long time, and tears apart easily by hand into chunks with minimal mess which are the main things for me. Am sure there are more elaborate method that are even better but I'm lazy. I find if you use as much as they recommend you just end up burning the roe. For an even easier method, put roe on drying rack until it's how you like it, put in a bag with borax!
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I really love the Pautzke
i really enjoy using the pautzkes... but the plain borax cure has done me well...
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pink pautzkes, soak it in a zip lock for a day, then cut it up in fishable pieces, add some borax to make it less messy, or it helps from freezer burn if you freeze it.
simple and very effective.
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also pautzkes doesn't seem to stain as much.
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AVOID USING KITCHEN FRIDGE FREEZER!!
When storing frozen roe it's really important to use a chest or dedicated freezer and NOT the freezer in the kitchen refridgerator. Aside from the sometime female issues about "no yucky roe with our food" Here's why:
The way the auto-defrost works in most kitchen fridges is by allowing the freezer to warm up a bit on a regular basis. When the freezer gets near or above zero, any frost melts and the dehumidifier pulls the moisture out. (every get out the ice cream and find it's a bit softer than it should be? You likely caught the warm cycle). Chest freezers and dedicated uprights don't do that. That warming and dehumidifying will considerably add to the freezer burn and also shorten the storage life of frozen roe.
Best option - use the chest freezer
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Cured some commercially bought spring roe; had a bunch of blood vessels on the skein membrane which I was going to remove. However, once I butterflied the skeins there were blood vessels everywhere, around every single egg. Obviously the fish hadn't been bled but that's the case with commercially bought fish/roe. I know it isn't ideal or even good to have roe full of blood vessels, but how bad is it? Still reasonable to expect it to "work"?
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Cured some commercially bought spring roe; had a bunch of blood vessels on the skein membrane which I was going to remove. However, once I butterflied the skeins there were blood vessels everywhere, around every single egg. Obviously the fish hadn't been bled but that's the case with commercially bought fish/roe. I know it isn't ideal or even good to have roe full of blood vessels, but how bad is it? Still reasonable to expect it to "work"?
I know this thread ended last year, but I found this a good unanswered question. Anybody know the damage that can be caused by still having blood lines still in the roe that's about to be cured?
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It should still work. That being said, I make a point to remove the blood from the veins prior to curing.
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I have tried pretty much every method on the web. Yet i found i got best result from a salt and a little sugar wet cure. I put as much salt in as the water can dissolve then fully submerge the roe. Leave it in for about one and a half hours. Take it out and put it on drying racks for about 3-5 hours. Making sure it dosent dry out too much. The result is firm and very juice row that stays on the hook for well over ten casts. Simple is key i find when it comes to anything :p as for storing i just wrap the cured eggs in sandwich baggies then freeze them. My last batch was still good for early chinooks this summer, well over a year of storing.
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It should still work. That being said, I make a point to remove the blood from the veins prior to curing.
Thanks sterling.
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i use pro cure and glass jars i sprinkle some on each skein toss em in the jar.After an hour so on the counter i drain the excess juice ,i toss it in the fridge for a day next day give it a good shake turn it upside down leave it for another day.then i take it out of the jars put a couple skeins into Ziploc bags and freeze it till i need it or lay it on some newspaper let it air dry cut it into chunks throw it into a Ziploc bag throw some borax on it to help with the mess then its ready to go .
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Sorry to bring up an old topic but I just starred curing my own roe. I used the pro cure orange and thet turned out as adverrised. To harden them even further I added some kosher salt to the jar and froze them. As my double header approaches I plan on rinsing them and patting them dry to seperate into individual bags. Was the salt step a little much?
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Should be ok....depends if it sat in the salt for a while before freezing.......packing in borax is better.....add the salt during curing...DON"T RINSE...thaw and use..
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The kosher salt is rather thick, hopefully it will dissolve. Gotta pick up some of that borax, and littles baggies...ill get some weird looks
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The kosher salt is rather thick, hopefully it will dissolve. Gotta pick up some of that borax, and littles baggies...ill get some weird looks
careful with the salt after curing...if you put too much of it in the roe, it will burn the eggs and you'll end up with a product with spots on it.
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Thanks blayd, heading home to portion them out right now.
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Didn't want to start a new thread but I had been looking for fresh frozen roe as I ran out recently and havent caught a doe in awhile. Looked at berrys and stevestone but there eggs didn't seem to high in quality, so I dug around a bit more and found this guy in richmond Robs baits, he has really nice spring and chum roe fresh frozen and he also has really good boraxed roe also saw some shrimp tails in brine for steelhead. Check him out on facebook robs baits
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I had the same issue a couple years ago so I went to the docks at Steveston and found found a commercial boat that had fresh frozen chum roe on the skein or single eggs . Picked up a couple pounds of prawns while I was at it .
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Sorry to revive a dead thread, but I have a question:
Can you use kool-aid to dye roe in a brine??
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Sorry to revive a dead thread, but I have a question:
Can you use kool-aid to dye roe in a brine??
I would worry about the scent in the kool-aid, unless they make a shrimp flavor that I am unaware of. :P
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Lots of people use jello, gatorade, etc because they are essentially a sugar cure. If I recall, you have to add sugar to Kool-aid so it may not make a very effective cure on its own.
As a colouring agent? Probably work fine and I assume there are a huge number of colors to pick from. Combine it with some sugar and borax for the curing and you'll be good to go.
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Ran put of procure when I killed a late season doe and ended up making my best ever batch of roe from kool-aid and jello
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Care to share details on your process?
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Any tips on how to remove the veins still in skeins? I bled the fish pretty much right away but still see some veins. A friend told me to run a blade along them, pushing the blood out. Its tedious yet effective but I was just wondering if there is another way. Is it a sign that the fish was not bled fast enough or does it just happen?
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Any tips on how to remove the veins still in skeins? I bled the fish pretty much right away but still see some veins. A friend told me to run a blade along them, pushing the blood out. Its tedious yet effective but I was just wondering if there is another way. Is it a sign that the fish was not bled fast enough or does it just happen?
Get a very sharp small pair of scissors and make small cuts on the vein spaced out about a quarter inch. Then use a paper towel and gently rub or dab the area of the incisions until you get rid of all the blood. I use a pair of scissors that are dedicated to cutting roe and nothing else. Ensures that it stays sharp.
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Does garlic powder work as well as I've heard, and if so do you just sprinkle it
On after the curing process?
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Roe issues..... Is anyone finding their borax to be drying out their roe?
I cured some chum roe the day before heading out (procure for 12 hours, patted excess liquids off with paper towel, and then put it into ziplock bag using a generous amount of borax, Mule 20 Team brand)...
by the end of the day, many of the outside eggs were beginning to dry out and harden. Prior to putting the roe in the borax ALL the eggs were very supple and ever so slightly moist.
I heard someone else complain that "they changed the borax formula"... but to my knowledge borax is borax (sodium tetraborate)
Anyone else experiencing similar issues? Solutions? Perhaps i'm just using too much borax??
Thanks,
Blake Kid
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Nitrile gloves are the best for roe, keeps the roe and dye off you and your smell off the roe
x2
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Does garlic powder work as well as I've heard, and if so do you just sprinkle it
On after the curing process?
Garlic oil works wonders at times on fish that are pooled up and not moving. Garlic paste is "must have" goop when bait is allowed for bar fishing the Fraser for chinooks. A number of different oils work well when using roe like Anchovy, Herring , Sardine, Anise, Shrimp and Tuna. Some days they are must have items when fishing salmon that haev been in the river for a few days or longer.
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Roe issues..... Is anyone finding their borax to be drying out their roe?
I cured some chum roe the day before heading out (procure for 12 hours, patted excess liquids off with paper towel, and then put it into ziplock bag using a generous amount of borax, Mule 20 Team brand)...
by the end of the day, many of the outside eggs were beginning to dry out and harden. Prior to putting the roe in the borax ALL the eggs were very supple and ever so slightly moist.
I heard someone else complain that "they changed the borax formula"... but to my knowledge borax is borax (sodium tetraborate
Anyone else experiencing similar issues? Solutions? Perhaps i'm just using too much borax??
Thanks,
Blake Kid
............too much borax. A dusting after curing and a small amount in the bag is all that is needed...
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Roe issues..... Is anyone finding their borax to be drying out their roe?
I cured some chum roe the day before heading out (procure for 12 hours, patted excess liquids off with paper towel, and then put it into ziplock bag using a generous amount of borax, Mule 20 Team brand)...
by the end of the day, many of the outside eggs were beginning to dry out and harden. Prior to putting the roe in the borax ALL the eggs were very supple and ever so slightly moist.
I heard someone else complain that "they changed the borax formula"... but to my knowledge borax is borax (sodium tetraborate)
Anyone else experiencing similar issues? Solutions? Perhaps i'm just using too much borax??
Thanks,
Blake Kid
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x2 Michael T. I'm shy about just storing roe in borax for fear of the roe turning into crust. I've seen others do it just fine, but when I do it... bleh. I stick to Pro-Cure, Amerman's, or Pautzke, borax it the night before, and all's well.
On another note, I was down in Vancouver at a fabric store and found some great fabric for making egg sacs, including one shade that matched chum roe perfectly. Beware of tulling- that stuff tutus and prom dresses are made of- it can be pretty harsh and break the eggs. Here in Abbotsford, some of the stores that sell fabric from India have some silky stuff that works fine, even though it's not mesh. Strange source, but if you're looking for something different, there ya go.
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A gift.
For this recipe, you will need:
1 quart water
1 cup of sugar
1 cup of NON-iodized salt (Pickling salt)
1 cup of borax (20 Mule Team type.
2 tablespoons of Pautzki fire cure powdered red . Be careful with this cupcakes... it readily stains anything it touches! Wear gloves when using the coloring or this brine, or else you have pink hands for a few days!
2 tablespoons of krill powder.
2 squirts of Pautzki Red Fire Dye.
First of all, split your egg skeins lengthwise (Butterfly) It's easiest to cut down the portion of the skein without the membrane and lay the sac open.
Next, with THE EXCEPTION of the eggs, bring ALL of the above ingredients to a boil in a pot.
Make sure to stir frequently!!!!!!
After the mixture has been boiled and all contents are dissolved, cool the mixture to a luke-warm temperature and then place your eggs in the brine. Allow the eggs to soak for about twenty minutes, stirring about every 7 or 8 minutes.
When they are a bit rough to the touch ...
Then, remove the eggs from the mixture and drain on a screen over night.
Once the eggs are relatively dry to the touch, roll them in plain borax and store in a plastic container.
I like to cut them into bait size chunks.
Mix them in a large ziplock bag with borax.
Although somewhat time consuming, this process has produced the best eggs that I have every used ...
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Interesting. Where do you buy krill powder?
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Any tackle shop should carry them.
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A gift.
For this recipe, you will need:
1 quart water
1 cup of sugar
1 cup of NON-iodized salt (Pickling salt)
1 cup of borax (20 Mule Team type.
2 tablespoons of Pautzki fire cure powdered red . Be careful with this cupcakes... it readily stains anything it touches! Wear gloves when using the coloring or this brine, or else you have pink hands for a few days!
2 tablespoons of krill powder.
2 squirts of Pautzki Red Fire Dye.
First of all, split your egg skeins lengthwise (Butterfly) It's easiest to cut down the portion of the skein without the membrane and lay the sac open.
Next, with THE EXCEPTION of the eggs, bring ALL of the above ingredients to a boil in a pot.
Make sure to stir frequently!!!!!!
After the mixture has been boiled and all contents are dissolved, cool the mixture to a luke-warm temperature and then place your eggs in the brine. Allow the eggs to soak for about twenty minutes, stirring about every 7 or 8 minutes.
When they are a bit rough to the touch ...
Then, remove the eggs from the mixture and drain on a screen over night.
Once the eggs are relatively dry to the touch, roll them in plain borax and store in a plastic container.
I like to cut them into bait size chunks.
Mix them in a large ziplock bag with borax.
Although somewhat time consuming, this process has produced the best eggs that I have every used ...
Thanks. Have you used it this recipe on the vedder? finicky fish.
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It's a killer on all systems..
Roe trumps all.
Just say'n.
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Thx for roe tip !!!
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Roe issues..... Is anyone finding their borax to be drying out their roe?
I cured some chum roe the day before heading out (procure for 12 hours, patted excess liquids off with paper towel, and then put it into ziplock bag using a generous amount of borax, Mule 20 Team brand)...
by the end of the day, many of the outside eggs were beginning to dry out and harden. Prior to putting the roe in the borax ALL the eggs were very supple and ever so slightly moist.
I heard someone else complain that "they changed the borax formula"... but to my knowledge borax is borax (sodium tetraborate)
Anyone else experiencing similar issues? Solutions? Perhaps i'm just using too much borax??
Thanks,
Blake Kid
Just finished a second batch. First batch was spring roe, second was coho roe.
Both where done naturally with only borax, as well as Wizard cured, then boraxed. The trick to both is to ensure you do not put your roe into borax prematurely, they must be air dried until tacky. This meant I needed to stay up until 1:00am last night to ensure it was done properly.
Whether using a curing agent or not you must not rush the final step and simply pat dry, you must air dry.
No issue with the borax for me, but I am tired. ;)
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Just finished a second batch. First batch was spring roe, second was coho roe.
Both where done naturally with only borax, as well as Wizard cured, then boraxed. The trick to both is to ensure you do not put your roe into borax prematurely, they must be air dried until tacky. This meant I needed to stay up until 1:00am last night to ensure it was done properly.
Whether using a curing agent or not you must not rush the final step and simply pat dry, you must air dry.
No issue with the borax for me, but I am tired. ;)
Just curious, why do you feel it's so important to air dry the roe until tacky? After my roe has juiced out and juiced back in after 24hrs or so it goes straight from the mason jar to being tossed in borax.
Does air drying it first offer some advantage for catching fish? Or does it just make it milk out slower and/or stay on the hook longer?
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Just curious, why do you feel it's so important to air dry the roe until tacky? After my roe has juiced out and juiced back in after 24hrs or so it goes straight from the mason jar to being tossed in borax.
Does air drying it first offer some advantage for catching fish? Or does it just make it milk out slower and/or stay on the hook longer?
Stays on the hook longer
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Just curious, why do you feel it's so important to air dry the roe until tacky? After my roe has juiced out and juiced back in after 24hrs or so it goes straight from the mason jar to being tossed in borax.
Does air drying it first offer some advantage for catching fish? Or does it just make it milk out slower and/or stay on the hook longer?
One reason for air drying is for consistency of the eggs firmness on the hook for sure.
The other reason, and others may not agree, but I believe using borax while the eggs are moist and dripping wet does not allow any control of the cure. I believe Borax, if put on early in the process will continue to dry or pull moisture from the eggs when they are not air dried prior to applying. Maybe with the new cures on the market these days it is not as important to air dry, but when I first started curing roe in the early 90's I had too many batches ruined by not air drying so it is something I will always take the time to do.
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Cool thanks. For what it's worth I don't air dry my roe and it catches fish. However, I would like it to stay on the hook a bit longer so I'm going to try and air dry the next batch before it goes in borax.