Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: chris gadsden on July 19, 2012, 12:10:36 PM
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CBC News reported this on the 11 am morning news. Time running out on my libary computer so someone else can post the link I am sure. ;D
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Link to the Vancouver Sun article here: http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=30392.0 (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=30392.0)
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Interesting that Morton found this earlier in the year in grocery store product and of course the feedlots and DFO denied it existed....
"The Atlantic farm salmon (44/45 samples) purchased (February 2012) by Morton from Vancouver and Victoria supermarkets tested positive for PRV. Loblaw confirmed these fish had been reared in BC waters. This suggests PRV is widespread in BC farm salmon. Most salmon farms in BC are on the Fraser sockeye migration routes.
In a televised interview (April 20, 2012) Dr. Gary Marty, the Provincial farm salmon veterinarian and Cohen Commission witness confirmed he found the virus in 75% of BC farm salmon he tested. Dr. Marty suggests the piscine reovirus is not a concern. However, a joint scientific publication by the Center for Infection and Immunity, Columbia University, New York and Norwegian government scientists state: “…it is urgent that measures be taken to control PRV not only because it threatens domestic salmon production but also due to the potential for transmission to wild salmon populations.” The evidence that PRV is common in farm salmon was missing from the disease reports provided to the Cohen Commission by Dr. Marty.
Although the provincial vet reports the virus in “sick fish,” spokesperson for the BC Salmon Farmer’s Association, Mary Ellen Walling claims they are not seeing any indication of the virus.
DFO spokesperson Frank Stanek assures us: “Government of Canada scientists have not confirmed the presence of this virus in Canadian fish, despite extensive monitoring and testing.”
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Please consider the source, Morton and Routledge,nuff said.
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In a televised interview (April 20, 2012) Dr. Gary Marty, the Provincial farm salmon veterinarian and Cohen Commission witness confirmed he found the virus in 75% of BC farm salmon he tested.
Did you even read what he posted? ???
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Doctor Frank Stanek ............spin doctor that is.
http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/104553-dfo-office-closures-slap-in-face
http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/shutting-lake-research-lab-palpable-nonsense-scientists-tell-ottawa/article4237620/?service=mobile
http://chly.ca/press-release-application-made-to-reopen-cohen-commission-into-the-decline-of-fraser-river-salmon/
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Please consider the source, Morton and Routledge,nuff said.
Really ::), enough of the hippy chick already :-X
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Please consider the source, Morton and Routledge,nuff said.
"Also involved in the Cultus Lake research discovery were Fred Kibenge, a virology professor at the Atlantic Veterinary College in Prince Edward Island, and Stan Proboszcz, a fisheries biologist with B.C.'s Watershed Watch Salmon Society."
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So did these cutthroat swim past the feedlots? Were they even exhibiting any symptoms of "being sick"?
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"Also involved in the Cultus Lake research discovery were Fred Kibenge, a virology professor at the Atlantic Veterinary College in Prince Edward Island, and Stan Proboszcz, a fisheries biologist with B.C.'s Watershed Watch Salmon Society."
Wow all Anti's
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"Also involved in the Cultus Lake research discovery were Fred Kibenge, a virology professor at the Atlantic Veterinary College in Prince Edward Island, and Stan Proboszcz, a fisheries biologist with B.C.'s Watershed Watch Salmon Society."
Morton claimed Kibenge confirmed ISA in Routledges original degraded sampling. There is no posted confirmation on the OIE website and in fact the head of the department in PEI made a statement within 24 hours of Morton and Routledges first news conference that ISA was in fact not confirmed. Dr Fred Kibenge also made similar statements at the time. To this day there is no confirmation of ISA in BC salmon. Now Routledge who is not even a marine scientist but a statistician is claiming disease in lake trout. In a statement yesterday Dr. Gary Marty PhD states the O in reovirus stands for orphan because the virus has NO link to any disease. Disease and virus are not the same thing. I'm surprised that sports fishers would be taken in by this nonsense. Not only is Morton smearing farmed salmon and commercial caught wild salmon now she is attempting to destroy BC's sports fishery as well. Wake up people she is in Alaska's pocket and is filming salmon farms in the Broughton with the owner of a Alaska salmon company as I write this. Proof enough for me. Google Sara Belle co-owner Wild Alaska Salmon Company. http://wildakgirl.blogspot.com/2012/01/fishy-tale.html
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I'm surprised by your total non understanding that a lake trout is not the same as a cutthroat trout. One of them actualy goes to sea.
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Interesting that Morton found this earlier in the year in grocery store product and of course the feedlots and DFO denied it existed....
"The Atlantic farm salmon (44/45 samples) purchased (February 2012) by Morton from Vancouver and Victoria supermarkets tested positive for PRV. Loblaw confirmed these fish had been reared in BC waters. This suggests PRV is widespread in BC farm salmon. Most salmon farms in BC are on the Fraser sockeye migration routes.
In a televised interview (April 20, 2012) Dr. Gary Marty, the Provincial farm salmon veterinarian and Cohen Commission witness confirmed he found the virus in 75% of BC farm salmon he tested. Dr. Marty suggests the piscine reovirus is not a concern. However, a joint scientific publication by the Center for Infection and Immunity, Columbia University, New York and Norwegian government scientists state: “…it is urgent that measures be taken to control PRV not only because it threatens domestic salmon production but also due to the potential for transmission to wild salmon populations.” The evidence that PRV is common in farm salmon was missing from the disease reports provided to the Cohen Commission by Dr. Marty.
Although the provincial vet reports the virus in “sick fish,” spokesperson for the BC Salmon Farmer’s Association, Mary Ellen Walling claims they are not seeing any indication of the virus.
DFO spokesperson Frank Stanek assures us: “Government of Canada scientists have not confirmed the presence of this virus in Canadian fish, despite extensive monitoring and testing.”
Yup those grocery store samples are certainly optimum for sampling. No proof of whence they came or if they even originated in Canada. No proof of chain of possession other than Morton who has an agenda to destroy salmon farms no matter what it takes . I cooked on test fishing charter vessels when my husband's family had the chum charter in Johnstone strait. Sampling isn't done on a dirty riverbank on a $3.98 plastic Canuck tire breadboard nor is it done on dead rotting salmon already spawned out. Samples are fresh caught and sampled immediately and separately by professional fish techs from the DFO. I never once have seen the DFO purchase their samples in a grocery store. The only thing I can agree on about grocery stores is Save on and Super Store in Campbell River are two of the worst is for selling fish long past is best before date. Most is so freezer burned I wouldn't use if for prawn bait.
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I'm surprised by your total non understanding that a lake trout is not the same as a cutthroat trout. One of them actualy goes to sea.
No kidding..............Doesn't alter the fact they are destroying viable industries with a smear campaign.
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Morton claimed Kibenge confirmed ISA in Routledges original degraded sampling. There is no posted confirmation on the OIE website and in fact the head of the department in PEI made a statement within 24 hours of Morton and Routledges first news conference that ISA was in fact not confirmed. Dr Fred Kibenge also made similar statements at the time. To this day there is no confirmation of ISA in BC salmon. Now Routledge who is not even a marine scientist but a statistician is claiming disease in lake trout. In a statement yesterday Dr. Gary Marty PhD states the O in reovirus stands for orphan because the virus has NO link to any disease. Disease and virus are not the same thing. I'm surprised that sports fishers would be taken in by this nonsense. Not only is Morton smearing farmed salmon and commercial caught wild salmon now she is attempting to destroy BC's sports fishery as well. Wake up people she is in Alaska's pocket and is filming salmon farms in the Broughton with the owner of a Alaska salmon company as I write this. Proof enough for me. Google Sara Belle co-owner Wild Alaska Salmon Company. http://wildakgirl.blogspot.com/2012/01/fishy-tale.html
When you first started posting on this forum I'm sure all of us responded with the sense of welcoming a new poster. While I find your posts entertaining, the humor in them is beginning to be stale.
Posting outrageous claims and throwing out your conspiracy theories without any backup links or credible support does little for your credibility. While the pro-feedlot boys may still be enjoying the humor in your posts, I notice that even they have stopped cheering your outrageous claims.
Please provide links and support for your claims or I will start calling you out on them. Oh, and posting links from fish farm news and "wildakgirl" do not qualify as credible links...... ::) ???
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When you first started posting on this forum I'm sure all of us responded with the sense of welcoming a new poster. While I find your posts entertaining, the humor in them is beginning to be stale.
Posting outrageous claims and throwing out your conspiracy theories without any backup links or credible support does little for your credibility. While the pro-feedlot boys may still be enjoying the humor in your posts, I notice that even they have stopped cheering your outrageous claims.
Please provide links and support for your claims or I will start calling you out on them. Oh, and posting links from fish farm news and "wildakgirl" do not qualify as credible links...... ::) ???
X 2 :)
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Please provide links and support for your claims or I will start calling you out on them.
This should be fun. Have at 'er!
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Annie can you share anything new we have heard all these replies from the ANTI wild salmon crowd.
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Please provide links and support for your claims or I will start calling you out on them. Oh, and posting links from fish farm news and "wildakgirl" do not qualify as credible links...... ::) ???
I am looking forward to you calling her out, AF.
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Lol, still waiting... ;D looking forward to the show :P
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When you first started posting on this forum I'm sure all of us responded with the sense of welcoming a new poster. While I find your posts entertaining, the humor in them is beginning to be stale.
Posting outrageous claims and throwing out your conspiracy theories without any backup links or credible support does little for your credibility. While the pro-feedlot boys may still be enjoying the humor in your posts, I notice that even they have stopped cheering your outrageous claims.
Please provide links and support for your claims or I will start calling you out on them. Oh, and posting links from fish farm news and "wildakgirl" do not qualify as credible links...... ::) ???
With your new-found interest in fact-checking and good science, perhaps you might consider applying it to your own posts. For instance, your repeating of claims that PRV is responsible for disease would be a good place to start.
To date, the PRV virus has not been implicated in causing any disease. That is why it is known as an orphan virus. Studies have found the virus can be present in fish showing the clinical signs of a number of different diseases but there has been no causal linkage between the virus and any of those diseases discovered. As well, the virus displays a genetic similarity to the virus discovered in Norway but it is unknown whether the virus is a global virus endemic to many areas or if it is a local virus found only in Norway. At this point, it is equally likely that the virus is endemic to our waters and the that wild stocks passed it to the farmed stocks.
In spite of the way the information has been presented by Routledge and Morton, there is not enough known to support the claims they are making and you are assisting in propogating. The original and only study associating PRV with HSMI acknowledges that there is no identified causal mechanism but instead suggests that there is a "plausible" causal relationship and suggests that it must be confirmed by the standard mechanisms delineated in Koch's postulate in order to establish PRV as the cause of any disease. The study can be found here: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0011487
(http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0011487) Of course, that confirmation has not been done but it hasn't stopped Morton, Routledge or yourself from behaving as if it has.
Would you call that good science?
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With your new-found interest in fact-checking and good science, perhaps you might consider applying it to your own posts. For instance, your repeating of claims that PRV is responsible for disease would be a good place to start.
To date, the PRV virus has not been implicated in causing any disease. That is why it is known as an orphan virus. Studies have found the virus can be present in fish showing the clinical signs of a number of different diseases but there has been no causal linkage between the virus and any of those diseases discovered. As well, the virus displays a genetic similarity to the virus discovered in Norway but it is unknown whether the virus is a global virus endemic to many areas or if it is a local virus found only in Norway. At this point, it is equally likely that the virus is endemic to our waters and the that wild stocks passed it to the farmed stocks.
In spite of the way the information has been presented by Routledge and Morton, there is not enough known to support the claims they are making and you are assisting in propogating. The original and only study associating PRV with HSMI acknowledges that there is no identified causal mechanism but instead suggests that there is a "plausible" causal relationship and suggests that it must be confirmed by the standard mechanisms delineated in Koch's postulate in order to establish PRV as the cause of any disease. The study can be found here: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0011487
(http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0011487) Of course, that confirmation has not been done but it hasn't stopped Morton, Routledge or yourself from behaving as if it has.
Would you call that good science?
Your posts all seem to be based on the premise that we shouldn't worry about the fish farm diseases because "science" hasn't yet proven that these diseases are harming the wild salmon.
I prefer a pro-active approach where we get the feedlots out of the ocean, do the science to determine whether there are long term negative effects on the wild fish and the ocean environment, and then decide whether they will be allowed.
In my opinion, that is good science.
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That bears more resemblance to the witch trials of Salem than good science. Good science involves considering all the information including the successful history of farms in the province, not just inconclusive and speculative research.
I'd also suggest that using bad science such as that represented by the claims you are propagating in order to promote the outcomes you personally choose is about as far removed from science as it is possible to be.
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Interesting find and good data for this expanding issue but, totally expected. The more you look the more you find.
I would like to see the funders of this Cultus sampling expedition spend a few more bucks and go to Chilliwack Lake, a nearby sockeye lake that has a population that seems to to expanding, and sample some cutthroat from there.
Who wants to bet the same or similar virus will be found there?
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Interesting find and good data for this expanding issue but, totally expected. The more you look the more you find.
I would like to see the funders of this Cultus sampling expedition spend a few more bucks and go to Chilliwack Lake, a nearby sockeye lake that has a population that seems to to expanding, and sample some cutthroat from there.
Who wants to bet the same or similar virus will be found there?
Can you get us some from the F/N fishery that started in the Chilliwack today as I am too far away to get some for testing. ;D ;D
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Can you get us some from the F/N fishery that started in the Chilliwack today as I am too far away to get some for testing. ;D ;D
Chris, the point is this: Routledge, Orr, Kribenge, and whoever else was involved in this should have designed this program properly and sampled a control site and nearby Chilliwack Lake is the perfect test ... That's called science.
I understand the Fraser Valley Salmon Society angled the samples at Cultus, for a worthy cause, but I am happy they distanced themselves from the press release.
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Chris, the point is this: Routledge, Orr, Kribenge, and whoever else was involved in this should have designed this program properly and sampled a control site and nearby Chilliwack Lake is the perfect test ... That's called science.
I understand the Fraser Valley Salmon Society angled the samples at Cultus, for a worthy cause, but I am happy they distanced themselves from the press release.
Good thing I was not involved. ;D ;D
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Chris, the point is this: Routledge, Orr, Kribenge, and whoever else was involved in this should have designed this program properly and sampled a control site and nearby Chilliwack Lake is the perfect test ... That's called science.
I understand the Fraser Valley Salmon Society angled the samples at Cultus, for a worthy cause, but I am happy they distanced themselves from the press release.
A small point, but Kibenge is just a lab for hire with an overhead to cover. He has no involvement with anything but the screening. After his past dealings with Morton, he appears to have taken to including disclaimers on the results specifically to distance himself from her pronouncements as he did with the PRV/HSMI tests and as he quite likely has done on Morton's latest results for which she has declined to produce the report.