Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: leadbelly on December 06, 2014, 06:54:08 PM
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Do people just not care anymore? I love fishing the Stave, lots of clipped coho and all the chum you can reel in, most seasons. But we are getting out of hand with garbage and crazy parking.
My question is, what can we do to not look like such incredible pigs? any thoughts at all are welcome, Thanks.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/leadbelly/2014-10-29102431_zps7fccfa5a.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/leadbelly/media/2014-10-29102431_zps7fccfa5a.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/leadbelly/2014-10-29102444_zpsfcf28cf3.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/leadbelly/media/2014-10-29102444_zpsfcf28cf3.jpg.html)
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We need to self police it I guess, ignorance won't change without reason.
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Nice, and the guy nails a garbage piece of siding onto the pole - that's classy as heck.
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Pack in and pack out. I don't really get the mentality of people who believe they can just throw things on the ground and walk away like nothing happened. But then again I sort of do cause basically it's pure ignorance and a mixture of self entitlement, they probably believe that someone else will come along and pick up their trash and they don't have to go through the hassle themselves.
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Pack in and pack out. I don't really get the mentality of people who believe they can just throw things on the ground and walk away like nothing happened. But then again I sort of do cause basically it's pure ignorance and a mixture of self entitlement, they probably believe that someone else will come along and pick up their trash and they don't have to go through the hassle themselves.
They don't think anyone will come and pick up after them, they just plain don't care. Pure ignorance and a fast spreading disease among us... It's not just a special few, probably a lot more than you think.
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They don't think anyone will come and pick up after them, they just plain don't care. Pure ignorance and a fast spreading disease among us... It's not just a special few, probably a lot more than you think.
True true, It's reaching epedemic numbers honestly... so far this year I've filled one large Safeway bags full of mono, braid and other terminal gear. And that doesn't include the Timmy cups which seems to be the most common coffee cup found along the edges of the Vedder and Stave.
Respect for the enviroment and other anglers should be the key idea here.
What worries me is if they decide to close off the area to parking due to complaints from the locals or if BC hydro decides that the garbage can be a hazard. Only takes a few to ruin it for the rest of us.
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True true, It's reaching epedemic numbers honestly... so far this year I've filled one large Safeway bags full of mono, braid and other terminal gear. And that doesn't include the Timmy cups which seems to be the most common coffee cup found along the edges of the Vedder and Stave.
Respect for the enviroment and other anglers should be the key idea here.
What worries me is if they decide to close off the area to parking due to complaints from the locals or if BC hydro decides that the garbage can be a hazard. Only takes a few to ruin it for the rest of us.
I can see Hydro and or/the governing District or City instituting a no parking law which runs from August thru December. Littering will surely ruin access for everyone here. Truly the sad part is the number of greedy, selfish "fishermen" that disregard the laws - this is bloody disgraceful.
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I can see Hydro and or/the governing District or City instituting a no parking law which runs from August thru December. Littering will surely ruin access for everyone here. Truly the sad part is the number of greedy, selfish "fishermen" that disregard the laws - this is bloody disgraceful.
Or rather then just ban parking they could actually enforce the no littering law, and make money.
But you know, just a thought.
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There already is no parking where everyone parks but they just white out the arrows on the signs or rip out the signs and throw them down the banks. The litter, illegal parking, immoral fishing practices, have gone on for so many years that many think of it as acceptable behaviour on this river. I fish this river regularly and it is the majority that is the issue. There are some fantastic moral law abiding fishermen on the river but in my observations and opinion we are vastly outnumbered. Enforcement is the issue or rather lack thereof! The only way to solve the issues of this great fishery is to complain to our politicians, police, tow truck drivers, bylaw enforcement, fisheries, hydro, conservation officers, repeatidly. They will not listen to the minority so make youselves the majority and let them hear your dissatisfaction. Complaining on here isn't going to change anything , complain to those that enforce or change the laws, otherwise expect the same old BS on this river year in and out. I got some satisfaction this year watching a few get towed out of the handicapped parking and watched one fisherman have his gear confiscated so don't think that a phone call won't make a difference
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some of the observations above explain why I have seldom fished the Stave since chum salmon were opened for retention.
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Littering at the small or large scale is not a problem confined only in the fishing community. Wherever there is a presence of human activities, littering will happen. This is why there is a budget allocated for cleaning up venues after an outdoor concert, a festival, a parade, etc. To prevent littering at your local waterways, there are several initiatives which need to be established and carried on by a number of dedicated volunteers.
1) Improve access to fishing spots. Right now our fisheries can easily be accessed for anyone who purchases an angling licence. Take Stave River for example, access is unorganized, chaotic and messy. municipalities don't realize that people will always want to fish and by removing existing access to clean up the mess, it's simply moving the problem a little further away until that access is also closed. A better alternative for the city is to appreciate just how large the recreational fishing community and its economic impact is in the region, invest some money on improving existing access or establishing new access (washrooms, parking stalls, garbage bins, educational signages and dare I say it, fish cleaning stations). With proper access, most people will choose to behave properly and local residents also benefit. To accomplish this, there has to be a group which is willing to begin a dialogue with the city. It's not an overnight process, it'll take years to convince decision makers especially if fishing is not their pastime. Fraser Valley Salmon Society has been a driving force on requesting Chilliwack to improve access at Island 22. So far very little progress has been made but directors are working hard and confident it will happen. The same can be achieved for the Stave River, Mission Boat Launch, Nicomen Slough boat launch, etc. There just have to be a few people who are willing to step up and do the grind work.
2) Organize a river cleanup at the end of the fishing season keeps the place tidy, but also demonstrates to local residents that majority in the angling community do care. When Chilliwack River cleanups were first hosted back in 2002, a couple of dozen people showed up. Today, 12 years later, a couple hundred people show up at each cleanup. Create a movement and change the attitude, after a decade you'll see a difference. One tip when it comes to encouraging people to attend cleanups, don't discriminate and attempt to label who are possibly doing the littering (Asians, Europeans, bottom bouncers, bait fishermen, young punks, rich people...). The reality is that anyone can be litterers. This is a mess that all of us need to tackle together.
3) Phone the enforcement officers whenever the opportunity is there. At each fishery-related meetings, the same message has been emphasized from both federal and provincial enforcement staffs, violation reports are on the decline. Recreational users are eyes and ears for enforcement staffs, who rely on these reports to do their job more efficiently. Not every call will be attended. In fact, most calls will not be attended because the number of officers is simply not there to accommodate the area they need to patrol. However, once awhile officers just might be in your area when the call is made and can attend the site immediately.
4) If violators are caught and charged, the punishment should be severe enough to stop future violations. Publicizing the consequences of these charges also motivate more people to work with local enforcement and discourage other potential violators.
Complaining about these same problems on the internet achieves absolutely nothing as we have seen on this forum in the past decade, but if ideas can be spawned from these discussions and carried out by a few who are willing to lead in this community just might make a difference.
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I'm with Rod, but a much simpler suggestion. Accountability. Technology is cheap enough now to hook up cameras in the trees with solar power to transmit video data wirelessly to a server nearby. Problem solved. Max fines and tickets for those who litter.
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I'm with Rod, but a much simpler suggestion. Accountability. Technology is cheap enough now to hook up cameras in the trees with solar power to transmit video data wirelessly to a server nearby. Problem solved. Max fines and tickets for those who litter.
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If the pigs got a 1000$ ticket for littering which they must pay if they want to have their car insurance renewed, most, if not all, would think twice before littering again. Hit them HARD where it hurts the most - their wallets!
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I see this is still up.
http://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/district-of-mission-create-a-parking-area-for-both-west-east-side-of-the-stave-river#
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[/size]This would help as per Rods recommendation.
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If the pigs got a 1000$ ticket for littering which they must pay if they want to have their car insurance renewed, most, if not all, would think twice before littering again. Hit them HARD where it hurts the most - their wallets!
It's also worth mentioning that this sub $10,000 investment would pay for itself fairly quickly.
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x2
If the pigs got a 1000$ ticket for littering which they must pay if they want to have their car insurance renewed, most, if not all, would think twice before littering again. Hit them HARD where it hurts the most - their wallets!
I like this idea.
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I absolutely 2nd Blair. Rod is bang on. Why cant't we have politicians and law makers think and act the way Rod does? ???
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I absolutely 2nd Blair. Rod is bang on. Why cant't we have politicians and law makers think and act the way Rod does? ???
You miss the point! :)
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I'm with Rod, but a much simpler suggestion. Accountability. Technology is cheap enough now to hook up cameras in the trees with solar power to transmit video data wirelessly to a server nearby. Problem solved. Max fines and tickets for those who litter.
Holding some of these people accountable can be satisfying. I get it, we all want to see those who lack respect having a chunk of their bank account chewed away, but it will not solve the problem. You'll never eliminate illegal dumping at the massive scale. The type of people who do this is criminal and jail time is in fact more appropriate than a large fine IMO. You might deter some potential violators, but what it will do instead, is drive those few who are determined to dump further into the woods where cameras are absent. And it is those few people who are causing most of the mess. Law enforcement is important, but it's only a small part of the solution.
As for the scattered littering you see at the parking spots and river banks, that takes a change in attitude which will take a long time to achieve. There's something seriously wrong when people can bring a chair, couch, sleeping bag, tent to the river and feel like they can afford to leave it behind and buy a new one later simply because it's too complicated to carry it out. Organized cleanups can begin this educational process. Take Chilliwack River cleanups for example. The goal is not only to remove garbage from the watershed, but to ensure all the young cleanup participants understand the importance of a clean watershed, and the value of their and public properties. Hopefully that spirit will be carried on in ten, twenty years from now when they become regular recreational users.
Currently the cost of recreational access to our waterways is ridiculously cheap in comparison to most developed parts of the world. When fishing in Northern Europe, it costs me $20 to fish a section of the river for a day and a printout is given to me about rules (some fisheries even suggest tangled lines on trees are required to be reported). Access to these fisheries are equipped with information board on daily quota, maps of accessible section, and garbage cans that are regularly maintained. In this province, we buy a cheap licence/privilege to access more rivers and lakes than you can visit in one year. Information is not delivered to you, instead you are expected to find it yourself. Parking spots are road side. Access to the river is hidden more often than not, and no garbage cans or proper washrooms are installed. There's no sense of ownership, so everyone just does their own thing so it shouldn't be a surprise to see a mess left behind after a fishing season.
As for demanding better vehicle access at Stave River, this is how you go about it. If you haven't done so, join the Fraser Valley Salmon Society (or BC Federation of Drift Fishers, or an organization which you feel represents recreational fishermen best). Attend the AGM, bring up this issue and recommend to have a director in the organization taking on the task. Contact Destination BC's visitor centre in Mission (funny enough, the head banner of Destination BC's section on Mission is three fishermen doing what many do when sockeye salmon opens (http://www.hellobc.com/mission/visitor-centres.aspx), so they must think fishing is important in that region right? ;) ) and voice your concern. More likely than not, Mission Regional Chamber of Commerce will agree with you and begin that dialogue with the city for you. Contact the other organizations which have members who use the Stave River, have your organization's representative set up a meeting with the other organizations to outline the problems and solutions which we want to recommend. Attempt to set up a meeting with the city/mayor with representatives of all regional recreational fishing organizations and chamber of commerce. If the mayor see value in this dialogue, then maybe something will come out of it. If not, then you can say it has been tried and there's no interest for the current city council to accommodate recreational fishermen more than what it does already.
BTW, the current mayor of Maple Ridge wanted to begin a "dialogue" on this discussion forum during her mayoral election campaign as she is "supportive of sport fishing and its importance in Maple Ridge" but I felt that it was inappropriate to do so at the time. Now that she is elected, some of you Maple Ridge anglers may want to communicate with her and see what her plans are on improving sport fishing in her city. I seem to remember reading something about the lack of shore access along the Fraser River in that area for pink salmon fishing recently...
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Food for thought, thanks.
I know people with Mission and Ridge Adopt a Block maybe I will throw some questions at them also.
Cheers.
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It's also worth mentioning that this sub $10,000 investment would pay for itself fairly quickly.
Not sure it would be that simple, you need someone to monitor, maintain and enforce even with cameras in tree's. And do we really want to give the Gov't the ability to watch us from the tree's just so a few jackwads on the Stave get a fine? Not sure I'm ready to give up my personal liberty so that the Stave stays moderately cleaner.
Don't fish the Stave or litter but do agree litter is a problem and that Rod has it bang on with expanding facilities.
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Well I've got concerns with the "Big Brother is Watching You!" solutions that are often offered by some folks but the fact is this is already in place in many circumstances. Tree cameras are used in many National Parks and someone who should know has told me people should be careful what they do in the wilds of the a park because you never know who may be watching or reviewing the video afterwards. A second question is how much privacy is anyone entitled to in what is a public space such as along the Stave or the BC Hydro Park? Security cameras, both government and privately operated are ubiquitous in most urban areas. Remember the controversy over security cams installed before the 2010 Olympics. Despite concerns of some groups these went ahead anyway. For the most the video material is seldom viewed except when it's necessary but and it's a big but with which I have fairly direct experience, access to material of this nature is abused from time to time despite the supposedly high professional and ethical standards of the people who have access to it.
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ENFORCEMENT & FINES
I have always wished there was more enforcement.
However, food for thought:
Do you really think it makes rationale sense to impose let's say a $1000 fine for littering?
If we used that as an acceptable level, then I guess other fines would work such as this:
1) Speeding $100,000
2) Texting while Driving $75,000
3) Running a Red Light $150,000
Driving a motor vehicle (Which most of us do everyday) is a huge responsibility. You are in control of a "Dangerous weapon" ... that can not only KILL YOU but other INOCCENT PEOPLE.
I personally do not think that littering is even in the same ballpark.
I of course, do not condone any form of littering ... just trying to bring a comparison into the picture.
We (as fishermen) tend to focus on what is important to us (Naturally).
However, when weighed against the BIG PICTURE of all fines & enforcement, one should take a realistic view of what can and is being done.
Havent seen a sign in a while but even when I was a kid there were signs posted everywhere that said DO NOT DUMP REFUSE or you could be fined up to $2000.00
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=j7OHG7tHrNM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=j7OHG7tHrNM)
I remember watching this one growing up