Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rodney on April 27, 2005, 11:33:29 AM
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http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/xnet/content/fns/index.cfm?pg=view_notice&lang=en&DOC_ID=78410&ID=recreational
Fraser River - Tidal Waters
Effective May 1, 2005, you may retain four chinook per day, only one of which
may be greater than 50 cm in both tidal waters of the Fraser River.
Fraser River Non-tidal Waters
Effective May 1, 2005, you may retain four chinook per day, only one of which
may be greater than 50 cm in the non-tidal waters of the Fraser River from the
Mission Bridge upstream to the Alexandra Bridge.
Anglers are requested to use selective fishing methods when fishing for
Chinook. This will be especially important from mid-June to mid-July when
Early Stuart sockeye salmon will be present in the Fraser River. The Fraser
River sockeye retention fishery is expected to commence in mid to late July.
A fishery notice will announce the sockeye opening.
Anglers are reminded that barbless hooks are required when fishing in the
Fraser River and that it is prohibited to willfully hook a salmon in any part
of its body other than its mouth.
For further information on salmon fishing opportunities, please call our salmon
information line at 604-666-8266.
Fisheries & Oceans Operations Center - FN0237
Sent April 27, 2005 at 0901
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From the last discussion with DFO, there are great concerns on the return number of the Early Stewart Run from mid June to mid July. Instead of having the entire river closed, DFO is suggesting anglers to use methods that will selectively target chinook salmon and avoid any by-catch of early Stewart sockeye. This means, barfishing with a large spin-n-glow, or spoon casting at creek mouths, etc are the best methods to use to achieve this.
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:o oh an openning sounds good but selective methods ::)guess i will trey barfishing this year. :o
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Come on Rodney...don't be shy, go ahead and say it...YES, SELECTIVE METHODS EXCLUDE BOTTOM BOUNCING!!!!
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Boy, that's going to be tough on those who use driftnets. Ya right.
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And whats with this BS: "and that it is prohibited to willfully hook a salmon in any part
of its body other than its mouth"
Is that the DFO's verbage. If it is then the way it reads, I can go to some pool on the chehalis this fall with a hook tied on above a weight and as long as I snag a fish "in its mouth" then I am not breaking any rules?!? You see, the flip side of that staement is: that I am allowed to willfully hook fish (asl long as its) in the mouth.
DFO needs to lay down the law, why relase these statements that are so flimsy and ultimately counter productive to the regulations they set?
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I was saving that comment for you. What am I going to do with 200 bouncing betties that I plan to sell this summer then? ;)
Actually I only have one bouncing betty in my house, found it two summers ago on the Vedder while fishing for red springs. It was in the car until last Christmas when I finally got sick of hearing it rolling across the mat everytime I make a turn. ::)
For those of you who are interested in why this is simply a request and not a total ban of bottom bouncing:
The Sportfishing advisory board had a brief discussion with regional DFO managers about this around a month ago. While many of us would like to see a strictly barfishing fishery during sockeye closure, the reality is that current enforcement is simply unable to satisfy such a regulation change. There are also other complications. There are more than one way to effectively fish for chinook salmon in the Fraser. What about fishing with plugs? bait? spincasting? etc. If the regulation notice becomes too lengthy, people either get confused, forget, or simply ignore it.
The compromise is to make it a request, with reasoning behind the request and hopefully majority of the angling community would understand why selective methods should be used. Most people don't like to be told how they should fish, but if DFO includes anglers to come up with directions that may improve the fishery, then it may just work. Work with them, instead of against them, send your suggestions in if you are not pleased with what you are seeing.
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Hey Gooey, word on the street is that DFO put in the "selective method" piece in the regs after they heard about your tough beats this steelhead season! ;D Koz
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How many fishermen will actually honour a "request". probably not very many.
Don't get me wrong, rod, I go out and floss the sockeye (right koz ;) ), hell I make and sell Bouncing Betties...I have already sold 600 in the last week!
Simple fact of the matter is the I adimantly feel that flossing should be left strictly to the sockeye (meat) fishery on the fraser. I think most people agree here that flossing steelhead and even coho or other salmon species on the vedder or chehalis etc is pretty lame/unethical. DFO is responsible for setting the regulations and I find it kinda pathetic that they want to protect the earlier stuarts and their best effort is "Anglers are requested to use selective fishing methods when fishing for Chinook" ...we all know that not many people are going to actually listen to that.
If they really want to protect the early stuarts then ban flossing during their migration or at least put a gear requirement like no leaders over 3 feet length!
"requesting" anglers use selective methods is no more effective than "requesting" the native fishers not to poach or use drift nets. DFO needs to take a much more assertive position with everyone!
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Is DFO going to "request" that Indians refrain from setting drift nets 24/7 ? Somehow I doubt it .
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I understand that frustration as I feel it too. If I have it my way, the Fraser would be barfishing only when retention of sockeye is closed, BUT it's not my river..... ;) My idea has been suggested in the past, but it was not so popular, as many perceive it as limiting sportfishing opportunities. Limiting what you ask, everyone can just switch to barfishing right? The problem seems to be barfishing is apparently not everyone's favorite cup of tea, some do not find it enjoyable to sit for hours for one bite.
I've passed your concern on the willfully issue on last night, will forward over any responses if I do receive any. ;)
These concerns should always be sent to DFO. I usually forward over relevant feedbacks from here. The regional sportfishing advisory board I belong to do not make up the regulations, we can only make suggestions to DFO, who is actually regulating the fishery. Our intention is to bridge the gap between rec anglers and the fishery management, so that regulations given satisfy both the resource and the user group.
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Wow Rod, you're a lot more than just another pretty face ;)
I know that often people like myself don't know the proper channels to go through and have our voices heard...thank you for conveying the groups thoughts from the board here to the appropriate people.
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No easy answers on this one as everyone has their personal opinions on this as do I. As most readers of this forum know I do not take part in the the BB type of fishing and of course the bottom bouncing issue has been beat to death on all fishing forums.
Unfortunatley this has lead to some hard feelings among a lot of our fellow anglers. One thing that one has to watch is sometimes I believe FOC likes the divide and conquer method of attack. As a side issue I just wish FOC would deal with the illegal net fishing on the Fraser and other BC rivers first as they will threaten our fish stocks in most cases long before the recreational fishery does.
Back to the topic.
How are we and FOC are going to settle this? Unfortunatly I do not have that answer and I do not think anyone else really has either. For example you make a regulation that says only fishing with a stationary weight when the sockeye are closed. Well then as Rodney mentioned that would rule out float fishing for springs that I like to do at creek mouths as well any type of spin casting at locations such as the mouth of the Vedder River(Sumas).
Then what happens when the pinks arrive and sockeye are closed? Only fishing with a fixed weight again?
No spin casting, float fishing, fly-fishing and the list goes on.
I also feel leader lenght will not work as I am sure some anglers will figure out a slip weight method if they have not already done so.
One final comment, I wish to thank Rodney,Lew, Frank, Nick and many others who all have lots of experience on fishing issues who give up countless hours sitting on the SFAC board and many other boards working for us, the recreational angler dealing with these difficult issues. It is not a easy task and it is easy to be critical as I can be at time but at least they are standing up and being counted and doing the best they can.
We should all appreciate their efforts, I know I do.
Thanks Guys.
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The best thing DFO could do: only for the fraser and only for sockeye is to let people get two fish with a rod and reel however they want to get them, snag in the butt or in the mouth, BUT after you have killed or released two fish ALL fishing for that person stops for the day..
I am guilty as are other for flossing fish for five or six hours when I first started bouncing the fraser. Now for me, the only thing sockeye are good for is sturgeon food, and that I just pick up off the banks.
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Well said Chris, and kudos to you as well my friend. I know that you spend many hours on "The Battle Field" fighting for our rightds to angle our waters. Hats off to you Chris.
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I always find the flossing threads so interesting and at times laughable. Could you imagine a time when flossing (to the extent that it exists today) was not even an issue. I do and simply put it ended when they first opened the Fraser to sockeye retention. Prior to that, flossing/snagging fish was not as prevelent on rivers, it became a learned practice to anglers with its introduction and high success rate. Through past learned behaviour one will stick to what works for them and unfortunately, due to its success on the Fraser it has spilled into other systems by those who know no better (or plead ignorance) or simply don't care. Our craving for "meat" (please do not refer to flossing on the Fraser as sport) or the fact that we should have access to those fish (whatever..I don't really care) has created this flossing monster that has reared its ugly head on other systems. I know flossing existed prior to the sockeye fishery, however my personal experience has definately seen an increase in the method since the opening of that particular fishery. I long the day when fishing for sockeye wasn't allowed and my favorite river did not have springs that looked like Christmas trees because of all the coloured wool ties. Those of you that say bottom bouncing offers an alternative to bar fishing I have to ask, what did you do prior to the sockeye fishery and the " effective method" of flos...excuse me, bottom bouncing. The introduction of regulations, letters of protests, line restrictions, weight restrictions, hook restrictions, retention limits blah, blah, blah.......will do absolutely nothing to the environment that already has been created by the sockeye fishery. If your a "sport" fishermen you protest silently by not participating in that fishery/method and vocally by informing/educating others that what they are doing on our fragile systems is unacceptable.......regardless of species. What I find amusing is that some of you (I know, not all) will get up at God only knows what hour to drive 45-min to an hour to stand shoulder to shoulder, in brown water next to somebody that may or may not be able to identify what they are catching (pink year this year), has hopefully showered at some point in the weeK, won't bite off your head or send his dog to do so, but with any luck can at least cast. Not to mention, untangling buddies fireline 150 yards up stream from you, avoiding 4 oz betties wizzing bye your head and keeping your temper in check while breaking off your 10th set up because of that stupid snag you just can't avoid. All in hopes of "catching" and I use that term loosely to describe a method that incorporates a fish, who really can't see it coming until it is too late, running into a 50lb line that is attached to a 4/0 hook, two fish and if your lucky, yes lucky (little skilled involved to floss) a spring may figure somewhere in your equation. Sounds prestine and sporting :- Ahhh......I can hear it now on the Fraser....what colour are you using.........as if it actually matters.
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Wow Rod, you're a lot more than just another pretty face ;)
I'm sure the webmistress is thrilled knowing that her appreciation of facial beauty is widely recognized.... ;)
You're welcome by the way. For years since we started the board, and everytime the topic of regulations and enforcement emerge, I always ask if all the feedbacks, concerns, criticism are passed onto those who govern these fisheries. Most of the time they simply get lost in the cyberspace. Knowing the right people to relay these thoughts to is a good start. We'll see how this summer goes. :)
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Good points Winter Steel...there are some of us tho that still like a little bit of sockeye for the bar-b-que and flossing a sockeye is just about my only way of doing it. I agree its not sporting, but thats not why I I do it!
You know, there was a thread in hear maybe six months ago, I think it was for a river in alaska where residence where given a permit to harvest sockeye on the river. It was a "sustinance/food" permit and I recall the guys decribing tying a landing net to the bow of their boat and scooping the fish out. Sounded crazy to me but to I think the fraser could work better on a similiar system.
My suggestion (rod, please pass it along) make a special permit/lisence for the sockeye run. Each permit holder is allowed to harvest 20 fish that season throught bottom bouncing - all in one day if they like. Otherwise SHUT THE FRASER DOWN TO FLOSSING. Charge a $40-$50 fee for this permit to bump up enforcement and cover admin costs on the program.
Lets face it, flossing is not sports fishing - its a meat fishery and this cancer is invading every corner of our fishery. I think DFO need to acknowlegde they allow us to snag sockeye and start managing that fraser fishery differently, that will allow for the curbing/elimination of flossing on other systems.
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Good food for thought Gooey.
I have a pretty solid stance that flossing has no place on our rivers under any circumstance. A realistic position? I like to think it could be but facing the facts of it doesnt look like it is possible. Far too many are set on getting that fish on the BBQ at all costs.
Maybe the only way to regulate it, differentriate it from ETHICAL SPORT angling and keep it out of other fisheries is to explore the kind of options you threw out there. It doesnt look like self restraint and self regulation is going to work.
Too bad that here's yet another thing to deal with while rampant poaching takes place. I know some will say to ignore the flossing issue and they will have numbers to back that up with, but I think that the flossing issue is going to be part of the fight. The guys hauling the fish in by drift nets are going to start pointing fingers and DFO will gladly use it to cloud issues and divide the angling voice. It's too bad we are providing this ammunition to them and putting a few holes in our boat at the same time. As far as DFO, First Nations and the general public is concerned, anyone holding a fishing rod is an angler (regardless of what method they use). It's hard enough to educate why a drift net sweeping the river is bad, especially when the guys holding the net twist words and use 'white guilt' to cloud the issue. Try explaining when confronted about flossing; why it's ok to snag a fish, the relative few numbers taken, and that not all anglers partake in this. Basically "yes, guys out there are snagging fish, but it has no impacts like drift nets and poaching." Methinks it will take a long time to get past the 'snag' part of the issue.
But I still think Gooey might be on to something that might be a solution. Great food for thought.
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You guys gotta be kidding, no one other than 2:40 has any intelligent feedback/ideas regarding my suggestion?
:P
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You really want to be stoned on the banks don't you Gooey? ;)
I think the lack of responses is due to:
It's the opening weekend for many fisheries.
The weather is too nice, people are out fishing.
Most have already given their thoughts on the issue the last few years, don't feel like repeating themselves.
Some are tired of dealing with it as the issue is a lot more complicated than it seems.
By the way, I am starting to receiving feedbacks on your concerns. I've also added a few suggestions of my own, such as an educational pamphlet that could be distributed so anglers are more informed (because, some novices really think BBing is the only method to fish, as no one has taught them other ways). The initial response is "Don't get into other people's tackle box". :o That's all I'll say for now. I am still going through some readings etc before I want to comment anything further.
So much for fishing on the May opening weekend. ::)
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Anyone have any reports?
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Providing some information is not 'getting into anyone's tackle box'. This information will be of an educational and informative nature. What someone does with it is their business. I dont like to think that there are guys out there that think flossing is the only method. Some might think the fish are biting even. Some people might appreciate knowing what they are doing while others wont care.
No accurate reports that Ive heard of Kellya. Bar fished yesterday for 3 hours with nothing. There were about 10 bar rods fishing all day where I was and no bites. DFO survey at Is 22 saw nothing all day. Water wasnt that great, but good chance of getting into one. Towards June things will be good. Test fisheries are not getting much either.
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I wish all the anglers out there could get as fired up about the netpen fish farms and sea lice, as they do over the flossing thing. There is an election coming let's make wild fish and the enviornment an issue. If we don't we may lose it!
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I agree newsman but the Liberals and the NDP are not going to do anything about it. The Green Party is willing but who in their right mind would really vote green??? I mean they dont want to twin the Port Mann and want gas taxed even more than it already is.
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I think flossing is a descendant of flyfishing. The worst display of flossing I have ever witnessed was from a number of Vedder River fly fishermen. I thought fly fishermen were supposed to know better, being the elite members of sportfishing.